well, well, 1st of all, awesome, thanks for having me. um. so the socials equality party as to indicated, we ran into the presidential elections against both the democrats and the republicans. um, i would say that there is in the working class among young people in the united states. enormous opposition to the escalating global war to the genocide and gaza to extreme levels of social inequality into both parties of the capitalist ruling elite. the democrats and the republicans, and there is broad interest in and support for an alternative to capitalism, which is a socialism in terms of the ruling class, mcarthee is a more anti communism. matthew socialism is, of course, very present to the capitalist oligarchy, their main enemy, trump refers to the enemy within as the working class. their greatest concern is

that the working class and the growth of the class struggle will connect with a program and a perspective that articulates its real interest. in our view, that is socialism international socialism. and there is a broad support for that. there is deep social anger opposition in the working class. what's the scalar gravity? just it just reminds that, i'm sure. on the campaign trail, you talked about it a lot just for our international audience. what is the scale of deprivation in poverty, in your country as well? the levels of social, any quality are enormous in the united states. the billing in error is now control $6.00 trillion dollars in wells. the top 10 percent own more than 90 percent of the wealth, the bottom half next to nothing. the fact of a large percentage, i think 40 percent of the population has a negative net worth,

the conditions of social deprivation, poverty, homelessness. a workers are confronting the impact of storing prices, uh, basic necessities, housing, food. uh it is a conditions of a broad, a social of impoverishment. yeah, i think i said you remember a doctor in the ninety's. hey, if you didn't, the in los angeles saying that they hadn't seen anything like it since the developing world and famine in africa, except that in africa there was hope. where is the poor in the united states? they have the levels of poverty without the hope. is that connected to how the working classes move towards voting for donald trump this time around and clearly they didn't want paris and bell to yeah, well the democrats are broadly unjustifiably, hated, opposed in the working class. you know, i think,

i mean in terms of what happened in the election, the main change in the vote was the fall in the vote for the democratic party. a trumps vote remained largely the same, but one had a significant swing as a result of the fall and the vote for the democratic party and trump is able to or i was able to capitalize on social anchor by sort of in co hate. i would say hopeless, i would say anger in the working class, and trump is able to capitalize on the i'd. he and his government as a government of the all the parks which is going to wage war on the working class. but under conditions in which there isn't within the political system, any actual articulation of the interest of the vast majority of the population and trump is able to exploit that. but there is enormous anger and opposition and the desire to fight. i mean, actually one of the experiences over the past year has been the emergence of

working class struggle very significant strikes the strength of the boeing workers . for example, on the west coast $35000.00 workers. there's been a whole series of struggles in which workers are trying to fight for their interest . but it's, it's so it can be constrained by the trade union apparatus and it finds a reflection within the framework of the all political system. and while by the opposed to on your corporate media system as being a friend of unions, he enacted legislation against the national rail strike in the united states. you expect some more of the same or even worse under even my skin, vivid grimace, swami of both the people who want to destroy what's left of your unionized working classes as well. i think it's important to distinguish between the trade union apparatus and the, and the workers in the unions. because bided was a, an ally of the trade union apparatus and use the apparatus to suppress the class.

struggle to isolate, contain opposition. he referred to the a f l. c i o is his domestic nato meeting that he saw with the union apparatus of mechanism for disappointing the working class behind war. as you said, when workers saw it to rebel against the union apparatus, they use more direct measures like equalization, of the rail strike and the imposition of a contract which had been voted down by the workers in terms of trunks. it will be a vicious assault of the working class. actually the labor secretary that they have proposed is it all is an ally of the trade union apparatus has been hailed by the a f l. c i o. leaders by people like sean o'brien, the head of the teamsters. because i see the pick as an indication that trump wants to work with the apparatus. but that's very different from any,

any support for the work line. you might have to give us just a touch of history that gives me a f l, c i o, you know around the world, there are different union meetings a, there's an international union movement of this kind. how infiltrated is it by the c i a and by us intelligence operations to destroy workers movements all around the world? well, i used to refer to the perhaps is still appropriately f l. c. i a that the trade union apparatus has been instrumental and undermining, genuinely last waiting political movements throughout the world. and then as i said here in the united states, a place a similar role and seeking to block the development to frank and file opposition. you've had actually repeatedly a situation where workers reject the contract brought back by the union apparatus, one twice, 3 times, even 4 times before its final that it happened with dakota workers,

auto workers in chicago. this past year i the you need apparatus is an instrument for suppressing a opposition and a working class. that of course, for, for the most part they backed bite. in my case, i talked to auto workers in the detroit area who said that they saw i'm saying the president of the right w support for i'm sorry for heritage of course, for his bite into that harris that there was support for a hair is actually contributed to trumps about because the union apparatus is so hated stages, so hated among auto workers that when he was going or i'm campaigning for harris said, or it's to that encourage workers actually to vote against or so j. d von. so of course, who was celebrated uh in the movie about the poverty of apple, like you're in is upbringing. you see him is also a wolf in sheep's clothing. as regards using ideas of working class

advancement, his just seemed to antonio liberal, privatization themes, or you just type it that i go can, and i mean these really close to the silicon valley. all a guard, peter, a lot people like peter t, all the head of the former head of the people who, you know, want to dismantle a everything, all social programs, the elimination of all of corporate regulations be already limited. protections that workers have, they are go as you referenced you lot must, uh, you know, they have a plan for cutting 2 trillion dollars in spending, which can be done without a massive assault on social security, health care and medicare, medicaid, and all of the, the composition of the drum cabinet is it is a cabinet of by and for the uh, for the all the parts. i mean currently with blogger rubio, its extra estates, uh, any war on central america and latin america will create more refugees to the north

. but how will these oligarchs going to employ people, enough people in their factories if the border doesn't allow for immigration? and apparently, uh, you know, most studies show the united states is desperate for new immigrants to be able to supply labor. how, how are they going to cope with less emigration into the united states under trump presidency as well through an immense increase in exploitation? although i think that the, the main significance of the assault on immigrant work is 1st. all they're creating conditions of basically desperation fear in which immigrated workers are you have absolutely no rights or are perpetually at fear of deportation and therefore, right for the extreme corporate exploitation. but the assault on immigrants is also part of the establishment of a, essentially

a police state regime trumpet spoken about the deployment of the military. to utilize to create a, basically concentration camps and organize mass deportations. but these measures will be used not only against immigrant workers, but against all opposition within the united states, and particularly from the working class. it is a strategic question for american workers to come to the defense of immigrant workers to unite the working class in the united states as part of a fight to unite to work in class all over the world. because we all have the same interest against these uh, corporate financial, all gods. because they're honorable exceptions to be a f, l i. c i o. style of basic to the military, industrial complex. you can utilize elements. do you see a spots of hope across the united states where workers are organizing very much in

a different way to that endorsed by trump and hires as well? the socialist equality part in this was a major element of our campaign, and our political work coming out of the election is the side for rank and file power, rank and file committees. the international workers alliance of rank and file committees . and there's, there's a response in the u, a w o elections a couple years ago. now, a candidate we backed, we'll layman around on a program of abolishing the apparatus transferring power to the rank and file and carrying out a real fight against the corporations united in the working class. internationally connecting the interest of the working class in the united states with interest of workers all over the world. and with a fight against war. one very broad support under conditions in which actually many workers didn't even know there was election taking place because he apparatus was doing everything. it could to prevent workers for understanding that that's an

indication of the response that a real struggle will. uh, we'll get in the working class if, if it's able to and then must break free from the control of a highly privilege to way or the controls. the apparatus. ciocca. sure. i'll stop you there. more from the 2020 for us socialist, a quality body presidential candidate after this for the portion near wash. lots of stuff is a lot of the key at the fortune of us. and that suddenness portions here goes away with the result of the story. and boy say date or studio, and i see for sure option that this be so efficient though. if we started, the critics will go straight and you want you to where it was today, he's going to your welski territory. so this could save the natural logos of it. so form a ship portion was it was there for you to think about me just

a fly by still knew about chavo in gold. and if i say as close i you as a category to of the solution to continue. would you go on? died in billing now. probably not sure. the south, the citric. don't see a back football soccer. it to the south pole. so comfortable at the post and just got a smith gasket, boomers voice coming out on the bus, which is still going to me. so i'm on the policy. i'm just, i'm a got the union ghost and i'm not done personally. i get to talk about it. there's dorski of much fund wanted to set the conflict of the some about on there. not. i mean, yeah, the desktop i do have both come in with the stuff, some of the hello and welcome to across the board. here we discuss them. we'll in

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the 2020 for us socialistic, all the by the presidential candidate. joking sure, joe, we were talking about how terrible it might be under a trump and a little different to buy, make up. obviously concentrating the minds of people in this region is the gaza genocide, which you related to do you expect given the we've had more announcements from the biden hours regime to send more us public money and weaponry to israel. that old to 1000000 will be exterminated in gaza, or even before the 20th of january as well. there has to be a site. i mean, i don't have predictions on the, you know exactly how the numbers involved, but they are escalating the genocide and it is the bi partisan absolute bi partisan policy. the democrats,

republicans are united and their support for the is just increasing even israel, which is carrying this out a criminal regime indicted by the international criminal court. but they back trumps appointment for us. are you an investor? are you good then? that's what it is. real is mike huckabee, who's made statements about exterminating essentially the palestinians. this is a united bipartisan imperialist policy. and do the walk in closet with united states care or do they want the defense jobs with the vision in the making of more military shelves? as there's a norm is opposition to the genocide of what we found out that of course, in the election campaign. one of the key issues that we stressed however, was that the genocide had to be understood as part of an escalating global war. including the us nato war against russia and ukraine, which is itself escalating the preparations for work as china. this is

a developing global imperialist war, and it will be continued under a trump administration. and it threatens all of mankind. it is really an ex essential question. there is opposition to the war in the united states as or is in all of the imperialist countries. but that again finds no expression the political system. the democratic party is responsible for the genocide. its central focus throughout the whole binding administration was the escalation of the war against russia. and the republican party is committed to it to war as, as well. and a trump administration will escalate to warranty the question of opposing war and opposing the genocide. i think this comes out of the experience of the mass protests over the past year. it is dr. appeals to the state apparatus, the various figures within it, but through the mobilization of the working class in every country, against his own capital, as governments are the fight to unify the working class the to up to oppose of girl

as a war through socialist revolution. and that really does come out of the experience of the genocide, anything demonstration necessity for a revolutionary struggle against this corrupt criminal rolling class. it's the horrors in, in gaza in fan is the whole world is already against you, the urban union in britain, obviously because of the genocide. but i don't expect a 2024 such as the quality by the presidential candidate to endorse trump. having said that, do you not think that given some of the appointment's tools he gathered a and r f k junior, that at least nuclear alma getta, immune and nuclear again, which we might have faced under. the odds are of all the coolest. harris may have been diverted because there may be negotiations of some sort on the horizon over the war in your request. and you're a good idea. and you know, in terms of exact predictions on how this will develop, there are conflicts within the ruling class over foreign policy. although i think

some of the statements, particularly by a trump's reason to appointment for national security council, michael walls indicate that in fact they, they see a continuity with abiding in his ministration in the war in europe. but he has had the hand in glove with jack sullivan at hand in glove. okay, solve it. right. uh, this is imperialist policy. um, it is the policy of the american ruling class. and to the extent there had been differences over the over the war in ukraine. it's because the republican party trump is focused more on the question of a more developing work as china, which of course will be catastrophic. so i don't think it's a question of, you know, having a wishes that a trump administration was somehow less than the danger of a nuclear war. i mean, this is, it is the policy of american imperialism. and it has to be opposed for the fight

against imperial. they may have at least tension between all the goc power requiring trade with the most successful economy. on the bi pvp, china and the united states versus war with china. isn't there that tension and we will, you know, be living through that tension, whereas under, by administer or a higher as administration, it would have been just more in china. uh well, uh, the tension between dependence on global economy and the conflict actually is that through the router for its what's driving the more of the united states. american capitalism is itself immensely dependent upon a world economy, including the resources of russia and china, other countries. and it's actually that which is the driving force for control, the rolling, the lead, see control over the world and its resources. and it's rooted in capital a system is a great marks as explain planning and trotsky. imperialist war is rooted in the

conflict between world economy and a nation state system. and it said that's at the root of war. and that's the, the, that's what has to be opposed to oppose war. now i know a while. so socialist equality party would wish for the working classes to unite as it were in unison. others are looking to bricks and other power blocks in the grams in vain to at least fight off immune to dom again, by fighting the hedge a monic power, the united states. what hopes do you have that breaks can of a to help to of a, again well, as trotsky ones said, we follow not the map of war, but the map of the class struggle. that is, our orientation is not to one or another. capital is government, whether it's in bruce and this is the central central debate within yeah,

left obeyed. but in the, if you read the code for me, do you think the debate was between that and they'll give you take your rights. is there a change of the thoughts there amongst the is i don't know whether it's of expanding left in the united states amongst the working classes. certainly there's much more on line of suggesting there's a budging working class, the unity that there wasn't before about the fact that bricks and other elements can help the working classes will be united states within the united states. uh, i don't, i don't see that as sort of something which is developing here. um, i think the basic point though is that the working class of every country has the same interest and that includes the workers of present all russia, india, china. we all have the same interest, and those interests are opposed to the capital as governments that control all of these countries and ask for, you know,

the breaks power as they're constantly seeking an agreement with imperialism. you know, whatever, you know, differences they have, their appeal is always somehow that they can read some sort of accommodation with the various powers and are constantly finding that they, they can't because of the burial of them. so it's not an agreement, but domination. but the response isn't somehow that these capitalized buyers are all reactionary. are deeply hostile to the interest of the workers in their own countries. that they are not a force for progressive transformation or opposing imperialism. it is the working class and the workers are united or united in the process of production. we have the same interest. we produce the same goods. we are exported by the same corporations all over the world. the, the issue is making that objective, unity cautious and a political movement. and that's not by subordinating the working class to any

capitalist govern as obviously some government would beg to differ that the run state institutions in there. certainly the judge i need is a government would make the different, i mean, suppose the annual hemisphere most imminently. how prepared the nicaragua, venezuela cuba for invasion under, under trump administration. if uh, if indeed, marco rubio gets his way of secretary of state these a country is prepared for what the united states is going to do on least south of the rio grande. well, i'm not sure if anyone is prepared for for that. um, but yeah, certainly the, and i would also, i mean, you know, type tongue trump is talking about trade war against china against canada, mexico. and certainly the appointment of rubio indicates that they were pursuing a major escalation of the offensive in latin america, venezuela in particular. but again, it is also kind continuity with the policy of the binding administration and the

american imperialism as a whole. which i get underscore, as i mean the, the imperative of fighting for the unity of workers in the united states with workers in latin america, south america, north and canada. divide to unify the north american and south american working class against this route. patients government is going to develop as a central strategic issue. well, as i said, i had to go on, you know, struggle alive and well of west africa. all sorts of bricks oriented developments in the rest of the world. how will the working classes react? do you think to the drum policies from january the 20th, are they going to end up in despair as they're further impoverished? or will they be able to organize, as i think there's going to be a real struggle in a fight. you know, the american working class is not in a state of demoralization and defeat, that's not what's happening. it will,

it has many illusions and lack of understanding. but the policies that this, all, the gar could government will pursue the escalating war. this is going to engender opposition. this is not a period of coming up of the size of demoralization. this is a period of struggle and the workers are going to fight. they're gonna fight in the united states and all over the world. but the issue is one of what is the perspective, what is the program? and in our view, that is a fight to reestablish and reconnect the working class with the real history of the socialist movement, which is the trotsky, this movement, the history of the fight for revolutionary internationalism, opposition to capitalism in all its agencies. and to develop a real understanding that is the issue capitalism. a social economic system that is based upon profit, the exploitation of the working class for the interest of the all the guards. it is

a global system. uh and that is the source of all of our problems. world war, fascism, dictatorship, climate change, and ongoing pandemic. when my dad exploitation and equality is rooted in the capitalist system, no one has to be a pilot atrocity necessary to agree with you. and in fact, some of those arguments are made by a, by, uh, well, there are sites talking this and even the reform is in don't be learned. most system uh, at least do you think that a trump administration will give the ability to network and communicate between elements of the working classes in the sense that uh there will be less censorship of the kind that we've seen on the device. and there's the regime and some element of being able to communicate between between different states, between different factors, between different uh, working class, uh, centers about as well there, there certainly will be the, the opportunity to,

to do that. and we will side for that. but it's not going to come from anything that the trump administration does. i think you know, this is not going to be a government commit committed to free speech. you know, you lot must, the world's real wealthiest man is at the center of it and he's turning twitter into a platform of of right wing is this fascism essentially. i mean, it is free and uh, is it free and then it was, well, you know, these are both parties of censorship. dict. i mean trump, administration is planning on deploying the military, cracking the basic democratic rights under a, solve the expansion of democracy. the most basic democratic for his not coming through this, it will come to an opposition to both of these parties and the capitalist system. i mean, you know, this is the truck administration is not a government democratic expanding democratic rights. on the contrary, it's a government of a transfer or more ruthless forms of dictatorship and suppression. ciocca sure,

thank you. and that's it for the sure. well continued condolences to those surviving u. k u. s u, i'm genocide here in this region where we back with a brand new episode on site there until then. keep in touch viral social media. if it's not sensitive in your country and had to our child going undergoing tv hon, they'll come to what's new and old episodes of going underground. says that the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the needs to come to the russian state. never as tight as on one of the most on screen and the best. most all sense of the, in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the rush to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment said this was for the question, did you say even twist,

which is the welcome across the bull horns. were all things are considered non peter a little after use of relative peace? why has the level of fund to been reactivated? is a surgery is turned again. also is a trump piece plan for the ukranian conflict. farming up it would seem, so are the russians even interested at this point? to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess towards samuel in budapest. he's a pod, castro, at the gallagher which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow we have to meet bobby. he is deputy for an editor. it comes to most guy a problem. the daily original link prospect rolls in effect,