see and welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the u. e. one international day celebrating . when the u. a ceased to being a british traditional state colony this year like last year, a national day in an hour of stages impacted by the horror of our brothers and sisters being slaughtered by the u. k. u. s. u armed war and palestine, the so called international vocation, quotes and holland has an annual meeting today after it's all going to be pointless . icpc arrest warrants against is really needed at yahoo. this is us weapons in cash poured into israel by genocide. joe, all across harris and the people really running the world's hedge, a monic power ahead of trump, single duration in january. most americans do not support genocide and they do not support the proxy war on russia through ukraine. and it wasn't just donald trump running on the platform of more peace, less war. joining me now from detroit is 2024 u. s. presidential candidate, jokey. sure. national secretary of the socialist equity body. joe, thanks so much for coming on. you know, today 70 is to the day the senate voted to sent you a joe mccarthy vers has equal,

i mean is which aren't. what did you learn from your run for the presidency this year? and is mccarthy as i'm alive and well in the united states? uh uh, well 1st of all, awesome, thanks for having me. um. so the social's, the quality party as a communicator, we ran in the presidential elections against both the democrats and the republicans . um, i would say that there is in the working class among young people in the united states, enormous opposition to the escalating global war to the genocide and gaza, to extreme levels of social inequality and to both parties of the capitalist ruling elite, the democrats and the republicans and there is broad interest in and support for an alternative to capitalism, which is a socialism in terms of the ruling class. mccarthy is a more anti communism man to socialism. is, of course,

very present to the capitalist oligarchy, their main enemy, trump refers to the enemy within as the working class. their greatest concern is that the working class and the growth of the class struggle will connect with a program and a perspective that articulates it's real interest in our view. that is socialism international socialism. and there is abroad support for that. there is deep social anger opposition in the working class. what's the scalar gravity? just it just reminds that i'm show on the campaign trail. you talked about it a lot, just for our international audience. what is the scale of deprivation and poverty in your country as well? the levels of social, any quality are enormous in the united states. the billionaire is now control. it's $6.00 trillion dollars in wells.

the top 10 percent on more than 90 percent of the wealth, the bottom half next to nothing. in fact, a large percentage of i think 40 percent of the population has a negative net worth, the conditions of social deprivation, poverty, homelessness. a workers are confronting the impact of storing prices, uh, basic necessities, housing, food. uh it is a conditions of abroad, of social impoverishment. yeah, i think i said you remember a doctor in the ninety's. hey, if you didn't know in los angeles saying that they hadn't seen anything like it since the developing world and famine in africa, except that in africa there was hope. where is the poor in the united states? they have the levels of poverty without the hope. is that connected to how the working classes move towards voting for donald trump this time around?

i mean, clearly they didn't want harrisonville. and, yeah, well, the democrats are broadly and justifiably hated. opposed in the working class. you know, i think, i mean in terms of what happened in the election, the main change in the vote was the fall in the vote for the democratic party. a trumps vote remained largely the same, but one had a significant swing as a result of the fall and the vote for the democratic party and trump is able to where i was able to capitalize on social anchor. that sort of in co hate. i would say openness, i would say anger in the working class, and trump is able to capitalize on that he and his government as a government of the all the parks which is going to wage war on the working class. but under conditions in which there isn't within the political system, any actual articulation of the interest of the vast majority of the population and

trump is able to exploit that. but there is a norm is anchor and opposition, and then a desire to find. i mean, actually one of the experiences over the past year has been the emergence of working class struggle. very significant strikes the strength of the boeing workers . for example, on the west coast, 35000 workers, there's been a whole series of struggles in which workers are trying to fight for their interest . but it's, it's so it can be constrained by the trade union apparatus and it finds a reflection within the framework of the whole political system. and while by the opposed to on your corporate media system as being a friend of unions, enacted legislation against the national rail strike in the united states. you expect some more of the same or even worse, under eagle, in my skin vivek remo, swami. but the people who want to destroy what's left of your unionize working

classes as well. i think it's important to distinguish between the trade union apparatus and the, and the workers in the unions. because bided was a, an ally of the trade union apparatus and use the apparatus to suppress the class. struggle to isolate, contain opposition. you referred to the a f l, c i o is his domestic nato meeting that he saw with the union apparatus of mechanism for disappointing the working class behind war. as you said, when workers sought to rebel against the union apparatus, they used more direct measures likely. you'll equalization of the rail strike and the imposition of a contract which had been voted down by the workers in terms of trunks. it will be a vicious assault on the working class. actually the labor secretary that they have proposed is it all is an ally of the trade union apparatus has been hailed by the

a f l. c. i o. leaders by people like showing o'brien the head of the teamsters because i see the pick as an indication that trump wants to work with the upper eyes. but that's very different from any, any support for the work like you might have to give us just a touch of history that gives me a f l. c i o, you know around the world. there are different union meetings. a, there's an international union movement of this kind. how infiltrated is it by the c i a and by us intelligence operations to destroy work his movements all around the world as well. i used to refer to the process still appropriately f l c. i a that the trade union apparatus has been instrumental and undermining, genuinely last waiting political movements throughout the world. and then n, as in here in united states and place a similar role in seeking to block the development to frank and file opposition. you've had actually repeatedly

a situation where workers reject or contract brought back by the union apparatus one twice, 3 times, even 4 times before. it's final that it happened with dakota workers auto workers in chicago. this past year. and the union apparatus is an instrument for suppressing a opposition in the working class. that, of course, prefer the most part they backed by didn't actually, i just, i talked to auto workers in the detroit area who said that face on saying the president, the view. right. w support for, i'm sorry for heritage of course for the bite. and then harris that there was support for a hair is actually contributed to trumps with a because the union apparatus is so hated stages. so hated among auto workers that when he was going or i'm campaigning for harris that are interested i encourage workers actually to vote against or so j. d von circles who was celebrated in the movie about the poverty of apple. like you're in is upbringing.

you see him is also a wolf in sheep's clothing. as regards using ideas of working class advancement is just into, into a new, a liberal privatization themes. this is just a tablet that i go can. and i mean, he's really close to the silicon valley oligarchy. peter, a lot people like peter t old and you had to have the former head of people who, you know, want to dismantle everything. all social programs, the elimination of all of corporate regulations be already limited. protections that workers have uh, they are go as you referenced the lot must, you know, they have a plan for cutting 2 trillion dollars in spending, which can be done without a massive assault on social security, health care and medicare, medicaid, and all of the,

the composition of the drum cabinet is it is a cabinet of by and for the, for the oligarchs. i mean, currently with margaret rubio and secretary of state, any war on central america in latin america will create more refugees to the north . but how will these oligarchs going to employ people, enough people in their factories if the border doesn't allow for immigration? apparently. uh, you know, most studies show the united states is desperate for new immigrants to be able to supply labor. how, how are they going to cope with less emigration into the united states under trump presidency as well through the merits increase and exploitation? although i think that the, the main significance of the assault on immigrant work, this was all their creating conditions of basically desperation fear in which emigrated workers are, you have absolutely no rights or are perpetually at fear of deportation. and

therefore, right for the extreme corporate exploitation. but the assault on immigrants is also part of the establishment of a, essentially a police state regime trumpet spoken about the deployment of the military. to utilize to create a, basically concentration camps and organize mass deportations. but these measures will be used not only against immigrant workers, but against all opposition within the united states, and particularly from the working class. it is a strategic question for american workers to come to the defense of immigrant workers to unite the working class in united states as part of a fight to unite to work in class all over the world. because we all have the same interest against these uh, uh, corporate financial, all arts because they are honorable exceptions. to be

a f l i. c i o. the style of basically the military industrial complex unionize elements. do you see a spots of hope across the united states where workers are organizing very much in a different way to that endorsed by trump and hires as well as socialist equality party. and this was a major element of our campaign, and our political work coming out of the election is the fight for rank and file power, rank and file committees. the international workers alliance of rank and file committees . and there's, there's a response in the u, a. w. o elections a couple years ago. now, a candidate we backed will layman around on a program of abolishing the apparatus transferring power to the rank and file and carrying out a real fight against the corporations united, the working class internationally connecting the interest of the working class in the united states with interest of workers all over the world and the with

a fight against the war. one very broad support under conditions in which actually many workers didn't even know. there was a election taking place because the apparatus was doing everything. it could to prevent workers for understanding that. that's an indication of the response that a real struggle will uh, will uh, get in the working class if, if it's able to and it must break free from the control of a highly privilege to way or the controls the apparatus. ciocca sure. i'll stop you . there more from the 2020 for us socialists, a quality body presidential candidate after this by the, the, the, the federal we'll just need to just include the history was broken into components. just was wondering if you guys had put all

these to graduate serial and most are still going to be stuck with you. and 4 of you should see in the doctor's name, what's the rubbish to rubbish for the kids that are in your particular use or, you know, when you goes out any of the to stop please. i have taken poison the brush nickel for support. your community here is to me on the double so we should that they will glad shoppers dissolution stores . you worse name. you're still doing an arrow, then says go ahead and we'll put on there. so in the tip, they're doing a survey sort of been on the new much to sort of, you know, near to, to ask you sort of your internet service. you're through the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the 2020 for us socialist

goals. he by the presidential candidate. joking. sure. jo. uh we were talking about how terrible it might be under a trump and a little different. it might make a obviously concentrating the minds of people in this region is the gaza genocide, which you related to do you expect, given that we've had more announcements from the biden hours regime to send more us public money and weaponry to israel. that old to 1000000 will be exterminated in gaza, or even before the 20th of january. well, there has to be a fight. i mean, i don't have predictions on the, you know exactly how the numbers involved, but they are escalating the genocide and it is the bi partisan, absolutely bi partisan policy. the democrats, republicans are united and their support for the it's just a cruise human israel, which is carrying this out a criminal regime indicted by the international criminal court. but they back

trumps appointment for us. are you an investor or are you good? and that's what it is real is mike, how can be, was made statements about exterminating essentially the palestinians. this is a united bipartisan imperialist policy. and do the walk in closet with the united states care or do they want the defense jobs with the making of more military shells? a, there's a norm is opposition to the genocide of what we found that of course, in the election campaign. one of the key issues that we stressed however, was that the genocide had to be understood as part of an escalating global war. including the u. s. nato war against russia and ukraine, which is itself, escalating the preparations for work as china. this is a developing global imperialist war, and it will be continued under a trump administration. uh and it threatens all of mankind. it is really an ex essential question. there is opposition to the war in the united states as or is in

all of the imperialist countries. but that again finds no expression the political system. the democratic party is responsible for the genocide. its central focus throughout the whole binding administration was the escalation of the war against russia. and the republican party is committed to it to war as, as well. and a trump administration will escalate to warranty the question of opposing war and opposing the genocide. i think this comes out of the experience of the mass protests over the past year. it is dr. appeals to the state apparatus, the various figures within it, but through the mobilization of the working class in every country, against his own capital, as governments are the fight to unify the working class the to up to oppose of girl as of oratory socialist revolution. and that really does come out of the experience of the genocide, anything demonstration necessity for a revolutionary struggle against this corrupt criminal ruling class. it's the

horrors and in gaza in fan is the whole world is already against you, the urban union in britain, obviously because of the genocide, but i don't expect a $20.00 to $84.00 social security by the presidential candidate to endorse trump. having said that, do you not think that given some of the appointment's tools he gathered a and r f k junior, that at least nuclear alma getta, immune and nuclear again, which we might have faced on the, or the under a holocaust. harris may have been averted because there may be negotiations of some sort on the horizon over the war in your request. and you're a good idea. and you know, in terms of exact predictions on how this will develop, there are conflicts within the ruling class over foreign policy. although i think some of the statements, particularly by a trump's reason to our appointment for national security council, michael walls indicate that in fact they, they see

a continuity with abiding that has ministration in the war in europe. but he has had the hand in glove with jack sullivan at hand in glove. okay, solve it. right. uh, this is imperialist policy. um, it is the policy of the american ruling class. and to the extent there have been differences over the over the war in ukraine. it's because the republican party trump is focused more on the question of a war developing work as china, which of course will be catastrophic. so i don't think is the question of, you know, having, which is that a trump administration was somehow less than the danger of a nuclear war. i mean, this is, it is the policy of american imperialism. and it has to be a pose for the fight against imperial. what it may have, at least the tension between all the goc power requiring trade with the most successful economy. on the bi pvp, china and the united states of us as war with china. isn't there that tension and

we will, you know, be living through that tension. whereas under, by administer or a higher as administration, it would have been just more in china as well. the tension between dependence on global economy and the conflict actually is at the, at the root of 4. it's what's driving the war. the united states american capitalism is itself immensely dependent upon a world economy, including the resources of russia, china, other country. ready and it's actually that which is the driving force for control, the rolling the lead, see control over the world and its resources. and it's rooted in capital a system is a great marks is explained. lennon trotsky. imperialist war is rooted in the conflict between world economy in a nation state system. and it's a, that's at the root of war, and that's the, the best. what has to be opposed to oppose war?

now i know a while. so socialist equality party would wish for the working classes to unite as it were in unison. others are looking to bricks and other power blocks in the gram she in vain to at least fight off imminent dom again, by fighting the hedge a monic power, the united states. what hopes do you have that bricks can of a to help to of a, again well, as trotsky ones said, we follow not the map of war, but the map of the class struggle. that is, our orientation is not to one or another. capital is government, whether it's in bruce and this is the central central debate within yeah, left. obey that in the if you read the code for me, do you think the debate was between that and eligibility q right? is there a change of the thoughts there amongst the is i don't know whether is expanding

left in the united states amongst the working classes. and certainly there's much more online of suggesting there's a budging working class, the unity that there wasn't before about the fact that bricks and other elements can help the working classes would be united states within the united states. uh, i don't, i don't see that as sort of something which is developing here. um, i think the basic point though is that the working class of every country has the same interest and that includes the workers of present all russia, india, china. we all have the same interest, and those interests are opposed to the capital as governments that control all of these countries and ask for, you know, the breaks power as they're constantly seeking an agreement with imperialism. you know, whatever, you know, differences they have, their appeal is always somehow that they can read some sort of accommodation with

the material as powers and are constantly finding that they can, they can't, because of the burial of them. so it's not an agreement, but domination. but the response isn't somehow that these capital, as far as the general reactionary, are deeply hostile to the interest of the workers in their own countries. that they are not a force for progressive transformation or opposing imperialism. it is the working class and the workers are united or united in the process of production. we have the same interest. we produce the same goods. we are exported by the same corporations all over the world. the, the issue is making that objective, unity cautious and a political movement. and that's not by subordinating the working class to any capitalist govern as obviously some governments would beg to differ that the run state institutions in there. certainly the job in china is a government would make the difference. i mean, suppose the annual hemisphere most imminently, how prepared the nicaragua,

venezuela cuba for invasion, and they are under trump administration if uh, if indeed, marco rubio gets his way of secretary of state. these a country is prepared for what the united states is going to do. on leashes south of the rio grande. well, i'm not sure if anyone is prepared for for that. um, but yeah, certainly the now, what else? i mean, you know, type tongue trump is talking about trade war against china against canada, mexico. and certainly the appointment of rubio indicates that they were pursuing a major escalation of the offensive in latin america event as well in particular. but again, it is also kind of continuity with the policy of the binding administration and the american impure. ready some as a whole uh which i get underscore is i mean the, the imperative of fighting for the unity of workers in the united states with the workers in latin america, south america,

north and canada. invite to unify the north american and south american working class against this route. patient's government is going to develop as a central strategic issue. well, as i said, i had to colonial struggle, alive and well, of west africa. all sorts of bricks oriented developments in the rest of the world . how will the working classes react? do you think to the drum policies from january the 20th? are they going to end up in despair as they're further impoverished? or will they be able to organize? i think there's going to be a real struggle in a fight. you know, the american working class is not in a state of demoralization and defeat that's not what's happening. uh, it will. it has many illusions and lack of understanding. but the policies that this all, the gar could government will pursue the escalating war. this is going to engender

opposition. this is not a period of coming up of the size, the demoralization. this is a period of struggle and the workers are going to fight. they're gonna fight in the united states and all over the world. but the issue is one of what is the perspective, what is the program? and in our view, that is a fight to re establish and reconnect the working class with the real history of the socialist movement, which is the trotsky, this movement, the history of the fight for revolutionary internationalism, opposition to capitalism, and all its agencies. and to develop a real understanding that is the issue of capitalism, a social economic system that is based upon profit, the exploitation of the working class for the interest of the all the guards. it is a global system. uh and that is the source of all of our problems. world war, fascism, dictatorship, climate change, and ongoing pandemic. when might add exploitation and equality,

it's root is in the capital system. no one has to be a pilot atrocity necessary to agree with you. and in fact, some of those arguments are made by a, by a, well, there are sites talking this and even the reform is in don't be learned. most system uh, at least do you think that a trump administration will give the ability to network and communicate between elements of the working classes in the sense that uh they'll be less censorship of the kind that we've seen on the divide and there's the regime and some element of being able to communicate between between different states, between different factories, between different uh, working class centers about as well there, there certainly will be the, the opportunity to, to do that. and we will cite for that. but it's not going to come from anything that's a trump administration, as i think you know, this is not going to be a government commit committed to free speech. you know, you lot must roosevelt wealthy as matt is at the center of it. and he's turning

twitter into a platform of, of right wing is fascism essentially. i mean, it is free of the free and then it was, well, you know, these are both parties of censorship that, i mean, trump administration is planning on deploying the military, cracking down basic democratic rights under a, solve the expansion of democracy. the most basic democratic for his not coming through this, it will come to an opposition to both of these parties and the capitalist system. i mean, you know, this is the drug administration is not a government, a democratic expanding democratic rights. on the contrary, it's a government of a transfer or more ruthless forms of dictatorship and suppression. ciocca sure, thank you. and that's it for the sure. well continued condolences to those surviving u. k u. s u, i'm genocide here in this region where we back with a brand new episode on sat there until then keep in touch my role as social media.

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