of the time, action redundancy, and welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the u. a when it's national day celebrating . when the u. a ceased to being a british crucial state colony this year like last year, national day in the narrative stages impacted by the horror of our brothers and sisters being slaughtered by the u. k. u. s. u armed war and palestine. the so called international vocation. cotton holland, has an annual meeting today. after it's all gives me pointless. icpc arrest warrants against is really need and that yahoo, this is us weapons in cash poured into israel by genocide. joe, all across terrace. and the people really running the world's hedge, a monic power ahead of trump, single duration in january. most americans do not support genocide and they do not support the proxy war on russia through ukraine. and it wasn't just donald trump

running on the platform of more peace, less war. joining me now from detroit is 2024 u. s. presidential candidate, jokey. sure. national secretary of the socialist equity body. joe, thanks so much for coming on. you know, today 70 is to the day the senate voted just sent you a joe mccarthy vers. how's he going to switch on? what did you learn from your run for the presidency this year? and this is mccarthyism i live in? well, in the united states. uh well 1st of all, awesome, thanks for having me. um. so the social's, the quality party as a communicator, we ran into the presidential elections against both the democrats and the republicans. um, i would say that there is in the working class among young people in the united states, enormous opposition to the escalating global war to the genocide and gaza, to extreme levels of social inequality. and to both parties of the capitalist

throwing away the democrats and the republicans. and there is broad interest in and support for an alternative to capitalism, which is a socialism in terms of the ruling class, mccarthy is a more anti communism man to socialism. is of course, very present to the capitalist oligarchy, their main enemy, trump refers to the enemy within. as the working class of their greatest concern is that the working class and the growth of the class struggle will connect with a program and a perspective that articulates it's real interest. in our view. that is socialism international socialism. and there is abroad support for that. there is deep social anger opposition in the working class. what's the scalar? obviously just it just reminds that i'm show on the campaign trail. you talked about it a lot, just for our international audience. what is the scale of deprivation and poverty

in your country as well? the levels of social, any quality are enormous in the united states. the billing in error is now control $6.00 trillion dollars in wells. the top 10 percent own more than 90 percent of the wealth, the bottom half next to nothing. in fact, a large percentage of the 40 percent of the population has a negative net worth, the conditions of social deprivation, poverty, homelessness. a workers are confronting the impact of storing prices, uh, basic necessities, housing, food. uh it is a conditions of a broad, a social of impoverishment. yeah, i think i saved you remember a doctor in the ninety's. hey, if you didn't, the in los angeles saying that they hadn't seen anything like it since. the

developing well then famine in africa except that in africa there was hope. where is the poor in the united states? they have the levels of poverty without the hope. is that connected to how the working classes move towards voting for donald trump this time around and maybe they didn't want harrison bell. and yeah, well, the democrats are broadly and justifiably hated. opposed in the working class. you know, i think, i mean in terms of what happened in the election, the main change in the vote was the fall in the vote for the democratic party. the trump's vote remained largely the same, but one had a significant swing as a result of the fall and the vote for the democratic party and trump is able to or i was able to capitalize on social anchor by sort of in co hate. i would say

openness, i would say anger in the working class, and trump is able to capitalize on that he and his government as a government of the all the parks which is going to wage war on the working class. but under conditions in which there isn't within the political system, any actual articulation of the interest of the vast majority of the population and trump is able to exploit that. but there is a norm, ms. anchor and opposition. and then a desire to find, i mean, actually one of the experiences over the past year has been the emergence of working class struggle. very significant strikes the strength of the boeing workers . for example, on the west coast $35000.00 workers. there's been a whole series of struggles in which workers are trying to fight for their interest . but it's, it's so it can be constrained by the trade union apparatus and it finds a reflection within the framework of the whole political system. and while by the opposed to on your corporate media system as being a friend of unions,

enacted legislation against the national rail strike in the united states. you expect more of the same or even worse under either on my skin vivek remo, swami. but the people who want to destroy what's left of your unionize working classes as well. i think it's important to distinguish between the trade union apparatus and the, and the workers in the unions. because bided was a, an ally of the trade union apparatus and use the apparatus to suppress the class. struggle to isolate, contain opposition. he referred to the a f l. c i o is his domestic nato meeting that he saw with the union apparatus of mechanism for disciplining the working class behind war. as you said, when workers saw it to rebel against the union apparatus, they use more direct measures like equalization of the rail strike and the

imposition of a contract which had been voted down by the workers in terms of trauma. it will be a vicious assault of the working class. actually, the labor secretary that they have proposed is all as an ally of the trade union apparatus has been hailed by the a f l. c. i o. leaders by people like showing o'brien the head of the teamsters because i see the pick as an indication that trump wants to work with the upper rise. but that's very different from that any, any support for the work? like you might have to give us just a touch of history that gives me a f l. c i o, you know around the world. there are different union meetings. a, there's an international union movement of this kind. how infiltrated is it by the c i a and by us intelligence operations to destroy workers movements all around the world? well, i used to refer to the process still appropriate the f l c i a that trade union

apparatus has been instrumental and undermining, genuinely last waiting political movements throughout the world. and then as i said here in united states, a place a similar role and seeking to block the development to frank and file opposition. you've had actually repeatedly a situation where workers reject the contract brought back by the union apparatus, one twice, 3 times, even 4 times before. it's finally got to happen with dakota workers, auto workers in chicago. this past year. and the union apparatus is an instrument for suppressing opposition and the working class that of course, for the most part they backed by didn't actually i just, i talked to on a workers in the detroit area who said that face on saying the president of the right w support for i'm sorry for heritage of course for his binding and then harris that there is support for

a hair is actually contributed to trumps about because the union apparatus is so hated stages, so hated among auto workers that when he was going or i'm campaigning, for harris said, or just as i encourage workers actually to vote against or so j. d. von. so of course who was celebrated uh in the movie about the poverty of apple. like you were in his upbringing. yeah. you see him is also a wolf in sheep's clothing. as regards using ideas of working class advancement is just into, into a new, a liberal privatization themes. this is just a tablet that i go can. and i mean, he's really close to the silicon valley. all a guard, peter, a lot people like peter t old and you had to have the former head of the people who, you know, want to dismantle everything. all social programs, the elimination of all corporate regulations be already limited. protections that

workers have uh, they are go as you referenced, you lot must, you know, they have a plan for cutting 2 trillion dollars in spending, which can be done without a massive assault on social security, health care and medicare, medicaid, and all of the, the, the composition of the drum cabinet is it is a cabinet of by and for the uh, for the all the parts. i mean currently with margaret rubio, its extra estate, any war on central america and latin america will create more refugees to the north . but how will these oligarchs going to employ people, enough people in their factories, if the border doesn't allow more immigration? apparently. uh, you know, most studies show the united states is desperate for new immigrants to be able to supply labor. how, how are they going to cope with less emigration into the united states under trump

presidency as well through an immense increase in exploitation? although i think that the, the main significance of the assault on immigrant work, the 1st all their creating conditions of basically desperation fear in which immigrant workers have absolutely no rights or are perpetually at fear of deportation. and therefore right for extreme corporate exploitation. but the assault on immigrants is also part of the establishment of a, essentially a police state regime trumpet spoken about the deployment of the military. to utilize to create a, basically concentration camps and organize mass deportations. but these measures will be used not only against immigrant workers, but against all opposition within the united states, and particularly from the working class. it is

a strategic question for american workers to come to the defense of immigrant workers to unite the working class in the united states as part of a fight to unite to work in class all over the world. because we all have the same interest against these, uh, uh, corporate financial, all gods. because they are honorable exceptions. to be a f, l i. c i o. s style of basic to the military industrial complex. you can utilize the elements d, c, a spots of hope across the united states where workers are organizing very much in a different way to that endorsed by trump and hires as well as socialist equality party. and this was a major element of our campaign, and our political work coming out of the election is the side for rank and file power, rank and file committees. the international workers alliance of rank and file committees . and there's, there's a response in the u, a. w. o elections

a couple of years ago. now, a candidate we backed will layman around on a program of abolishing the apparatus transferring power to the rank and file and carrying out a real fight against the corporations united, the working class internationally connecting the interest of the working class in the united states with interest of workers all over the world and the with a fight against the war. one very broad support under conditions in which actually many workers didn't even know. there was an election taking place because he apparatus was doing everything. it could to prevent workers for understanding that . that's an indication of the response that a real struggle will. uh, we'll uh, get in the working class if, if it's able to and it must break free from the control of a highly privilege to way or the controls the apparatus. ciocca sure. i'll stop you . there more from the 2020 for us socialist, a quality body presidential candidate after this by the,

the, the, the welcome back to going on the right. and i'm still here with the 2020

for us socialistic, all the body presidential candidate. joking sure, joe, we were talking about how terrible it might be under a trump and a little different to buy, make up. obviously concentrating the minds of people in this region is the gaza genocide, which you related to do you expect given the we've had more announcements from the biden hours regime to send more us public money and weaponry to israel. that old to 1000000 will be exterminated in gaza, or even before the 20th of january. well, there has to be a fight. i mean, i don't have predictions on the, you know, exactly how with the numbers involved, but they are escalating the genocide and it is the bi partisan absolutely bi partisan policy. the democrats, republicans are united and their support for the is just increasing him in israel, which is carrying this out a criminal regime indicted by the international criminal court. but they back

uh trumps appointment for us. are you an investor or are you good? and that's what it is real is mike, how can be it was made statements about exterminating essentially the palestinians . this is a united bipartisan imperialist policy. and the do the walk in closet would be united states care or do they want the defense jobs with the vision or making a more military shelves? there's enormous opposition to the genocide when we found that, of course, in the election campaign. uh, one of the key issues that we stressed however, was that the genocide had to be understood as part of an escalating global war. including the u. s. nato war against russia and ukraine, which is itself escalating the preparations for war against china. this is a developing global imperialist war, and it will be continued under a trump administration. and it threatens all of mankind. it is really an ex essential question. there is opposition to the war in the united states as or isn't

all of the imperialist countries. but that again finds no expression the political system, the democratic party is responsible for the genocide. it's central focus throughout the whole binding administration was the escalation of the war against russia. and the republican party is committed to it to war as, as well. a trump administration will escalate to warranty the question of opposing war and opposing the genocide. i think this comes out of the experience of the mass protests over the past year. it is dr. appeals to the state apparatus, the various figures within it. but through the mobilization of the working class in every country, against its own capital, as governments are the fight to unify the working class, the to up to oppose of girl as a war through socialist revolution. and that really does come out of the experience of the genocide, anything demonstration necessity for a revolutionary struggle against his corrupt criminal, rolling closets, the horrors and gauze and fan is the whole world is already against you. the urban

union in britain obviously because of the genocide, but i don't expect a 20 to 84 such as the quality by the presidential candidate to endorse trump. having said that, do you not think that given some of the appointment's tools he gathered a and r f k junior, that at least nuclear on the get an imminent nuclear again, which we might have faced under the under uh, all the coolest. harris may have been diverted. uh because there may be negotiations of some sort on the horizon over the war in your request. and you're a good idea. and you know, in terms of exact predictions on how this will develop, there are conflicts within the ruling class over foreign policy. although i think some of the statements, particularly by a trump's reason to appointment for national security council. michael walls indicate that in fact they, they see

a continuity with the binding is ministration in the war in europe. but he has had the hand in glove with jack sullivan at hand in glove. okay, solve it right. uh, this is imperialist policy, and it is the policy of the american ruling class. and to the extent there have been differences over the over the war in ukraine. it's because the republican party trump is focus more on the question of a more developing ward is china, which of course won't be catastrophic. so i don't think it's a question of, you know, having, which is that a trump administration or somehow less than the danger of a nuclear war. i mean, this is, it is the policy of american imperialism. and it has to be opposed to the fight against imperial. they may have at least the tension between all the goc power requiring trade with the most successful economy. on the bi pvp, china and the united states of us as war with china,

is there that tension and we will, you know, be living through that tension. whereas under, by administer or a higher as administration, it would have been just more in china. uh well uh, the tension between dependence on global economy and the conflict actually is that through the router for its what's driving the war uh, the united states. american capitalism is itself immensely dependent upon a world economy, including the resources of russia, china, other country. ready and it's actually that which is the driving force for control, the rolling the lead, see control over the world and its resources and it's rooted in capital. a system is a great marks as explain planning and trotsky the girl. this war is rooted in the conflict between world economy and a nation state system. and it said that's at the root of war. and that's the, the, that's what has to be opposed to oppose war. now i know

a while socialist equality party would wish for the working classes to unite as it were in unison. others are looking to bricks and other power blocks in the grams in vain to at least fight off immune and dom again, by fighting the hedge a monic power, the united states. what hopes do you have that bricks can of a to help to of a, again well, as trotsky ones said, we follow not the map of war, but the map of the class struggle. that is, our orientation is not to one or another. capital is government, whether it's in bruce and this is the central central debate within yeah, left obeyed. but in the, if you read the code for me, do you think the debate was between that and eligibility q right? is there a change of the thoughts there amongst the is i don't know whether is expanding

left in the united states amongst the working classes. certainly there's much more on line of suggesting there is a budgeting, working class, the unity that there wasn't before about the fact that bricks and other elements can help the walk in closets the united states within the united states. uh, i don't, i don't see that as sort of something which is developing here. um, i think the basic point though is that the working class of every country has the same interest and that includes the workers of present all russia, india, china. we all have the same interest, and those interests are opposed to the capital as governments that control all of these countries and ask for, you know, the breaks power as they're constantly. so you can get an agreement with imperialism, you know, whatever, you know, differences they have their appeal as always somehow that they can read some sort of accommodation with the material as powers. and are constantly finding that they

can, they can't because of the burial of them. so it's not an agreement, but domination. but the response isn't somehow that these capitalized buyers are all reactionary. are deeply hostile to the interest of the workers in their own countries that they are not a force for progressive transformation or opposing imperialism. it is the working class, and the workers are united or united in the process of production, we have the same interest. we produce the same goods, we are exported by the same corporations all over the world. the, the issue is making that objective, unity cautious and a political movement. and that's not by subordinating the working class to any capitalist govern. so obviously some government would beg to differ that the run state institutions in there. certainly the jack chinese government would make the different, i mean, suppose the annual hemisphere most eminently how prepared the nicaragua,

venezuela cuba for invasion. and they are under trump administration, if uh, if indeed, marco rubio gets his way of secretary of state these a country is prepared for what the united states is going to hon least south of the rio grande. uh well, i'm not sure if anyone is prepared for for that. um, but yeah, certainly the, and i would also, i mean, you know, type tongue trump is talking about trade war against china against canada, mexico. and certainly the appointment of rubio indicates that they were pursuing a major escalation of the offensive in latin america, venezuela in particular. but again, it is also kind continuity with the policy of the binding administration and the american imperialism as a whole. which i get underscore, as i mean the, the imperative of fighting for the unity of workers in the united states with workers in latin america, south america,

north and canada. divide to unify the north american and south american working class against this route. patients government is going to develop as a central strategic issue. well, as i said, i had to colonial struggle, alive and well, of west africa. all sorts of bricks oriented developments in the rest of the world . how will the working classes react? do you think to the drum policies from january the 20th, are they going to end up in despair as they're further impoverished, or will they be able to organize? i think there's going to be a real struggle in a fight. you know, the american working class is not in this state of demoralization and defeat, that's not what's happening. it will, it has many illusions and lack of understanding. but the policies that this all a guard could government will pursue the escalating war. this is going to engender

opposition. this is not a period of coming up of the size of demoralization. this is a period of struggle and the workers are going to fight. they're gonna fight in the united states and all over the world. but the issue is one of what is the perspective, what is the program? and in our view, that is a fight to reestablish and reconnect the working class with the real history of the socialist movement, which is the trotsky, this movement, the history of the fight for revolutionary internationalism, opposition to capitalism in all its agencies. and to develop a real understanding that is the issue capitalism. a social economic system that is based upon the profit, the exploitation of the working class for the interest of the, all the guards. it is a global system. uh and that is the source of all of our problems. world war, fascism, dictatorship, climate change, and ongoing pandemic. when might add exploitation and equality?

this root is in the capitalist system. no one has to be a pilot atrocity. no, sir, i do agree with you, and in fact some of those arguments are made by a, by a, well, there are sites talking this and even the reform is in don't be learned. most system uh, at least do you think that the trump administration will give the ability to network and communicate between elements of the working classes in the sense that uh there will be less censorship of the kind that we've seen on the device. and there's the regime and some element of being able to communicate between between different states, between different factories, between different uh, working class, uh, centers about as well there, there certainly will be the, the opportunity to, to do that. and we will fight for that. but it's not going to come from anything that the trump administration does. i think you know, this is not going to be a government commit committed to free speech. you know, you on must roosevelt wealthiest man is at the center of it. and he's turning

twitter into a platform of, of right wing. this is fascism essentially. i mean, it is free and uh, it was a free and then it was, well, you know, these are both parties of censorship. dict. i mean, trump, administration is planning on deploying the military. i cracking their basic democratic rights under a solve the expansion of democracy, the most basic democratic for his not coming through this. it will come to an opposition to both of these parties of the capitalist system. i mean, you know, this is the target ministration is not a government democratic, expanding democratic price on the contrary to government of a transfer or more ruthless forms of dictatorship and suppression. ciocca. sure, thank you. and that's it for the sure. well continued condolences to those surviving u. k u s u, i'm genocide here in this region where we're back with a brand new episode on sat there until then. keep in touch my role as social media

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the, [000:00:00;00] the chest to go down to the okay. and let me know what's gonna be going on there. you can only put that are right. yeah. and you come on, come with me because i to use that as and we've come with the before them much time to do it for you. okay. now justin mcgill and because of the most of these k e by

nath neither given that all of them look doesn't understand the steps of getting