is one thing and even destroying the organization from here seems nothing but a distant pipe dream. this it seems really for all the southern level. they stay with us here on our to international up next on cross talk, peter lavelle and his guest discussed the recent flare up in the international proxy war against syria. the the welcome to prompt stuff where all things are considered on peter limbo. literally, this is a case of unfinished business. the international, dirty proxy war against syria has been re ignited on this, the addition of the program. we examine why this is happening, the actors involved, and who benefits the

a pro starting syria, i'm joined by my guess about my son in berlin. he is founder of seriana analysis. in b route. we have valley risk. he is a security and political affairs analyst and, and what talk to you. we cross the steven cc me. he's an award winning journalist and chief editor of mid east this course, or a gentleman cross type roles in effect. that means he can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated. right. start out in berlin motor could um we had um, um jake sullivan, come out last new cycle saying that the us will cry about the pressure syria is facing chrome and that will kind of link group the h t s. here. of course he didn't use the world, a word al qaeda, he just said opposition to the government in damascus. what is your take on this? i mean, there's so many moving pieces. we have air to one. there's apparently

a signed off on this. so signing away the entire a standard process, they run the russians, but so much time into we obviously know that there isn't is really hand in here because of the timing of it. immediately after the cease fire or truce and 11 on the this is unfinished business. as i said in my introduction, go ahead to exactly picture i just wanna mention a few things for us about jason, yvonne jackson, yvonne sent an email to hillary clinton in february 2012 saying that guy that is on our side in syria. the former special amboy of to u. s. james jeffrey said to be asked to joel on his gang has been an asset for us to strategy and see that so putting this into a context in the current circumstances in the region. this attack came with a direct participation of the turkish intelligence. they have on least this army of service, basically against our people because they found this as a perfect timing and there wasn't much were ground between them and is right in the

region for ever gone. he is preparing for the transitional period, so i'm just coming to the region also to the presidency. and he wants to impose certain compromises also in syria. so he is trying to solve the fight, his position on to negotiation table and having better cards for the future. compromises will settlements into each other at the same time when the seaside agreement has been, allegedly, let's say you're forced in the live on, on the, is rarely isn't the american send messages to the most coast that they have found to they have to participate in the 65 agreement by imposing a siege on his belie, in order to degrade the strength of his but allow me to terminate and politically. and i saw that rejected that therefore, this attack came at the perfect time to exert pressure upon us up to accept in participating in the siege on his will. and you feel followed the pattern of the advances of the immediate ends from it left to him a and they were intending on going to homes. they wanted to create

a beds of the siege, immediate and siege on live on, on something that the americans can not do by themselves or debates for the is rarely so they use this book says, and this was then what sort of ground the americans, the turks and these writers came to the same conclusion. so they came in once again to be starting these original tangible once again in syria. well, really, i mean, if it is a continuation of the dirty proxy war, this started in 35 to 7. i seem to remember very clearly that one of the a is maybe the primary aim is not only removing aside from power in damascus, but to the, to partition of syria into different staple, its sweet little state lips that could be easily controlled and manipulated from the outside, i mean because ox is talking about this belt and that makes perfect sense to me. but is that the permanent or semite permanent solution to the problem? is that the particularly like the, the term c. and of course we is really wants to have,

as we'll all cut off from siri and thrust into us, it ran mean what, what is the goal here? i mean, i understand what's going on, but what, what's the duration and, and who's going to enforce this new reality? if this even a reality is going to spit, go ahead. i'm not sure that you cannot to can i try to create a goal because there are so many policies on each one that has a different approach on the turkey for example, and wants to expand its problem influence in syria via the muslim brotherhood. israel's focus is on coming to the right, the right. and so what is some category and how's the law now? did you want to take a while? i think it's in, i'm buying this sort of situation, which i envy at all. feel free to have it states the us. does it mates age to? yes, i know the here to show them for money on the floor as a terrorist organization. so you can go to the police support. what is taking place

that would expose to united states as being very hypocritical, hypocritical, and this finds that on the way planned out to gain 2011. we'll have to 2011 when the obama administration and spoke about. vanessa can save president us on to lease tyler the same time, you know, washington was saying homeless, so he's a terrorist organization. homeless stuff was fighting against associated with the syrian government. so you have a very complicated picture. uh, they might do. i think there are certain policies very do want to president bush charter lester police power, but i think that this royal comes of the top of the list. the fact that president press has resisted the holy efforts to break off from a wrong. and it's interesting that these develop in this take place, often, nathaniel, who et cetera, one of the goals behind stopping the, the confrontations and one of them was to dedicate more resources to count them

here. well, i think what's taking place in syria, probably a separate from that. i'll also point out to the fact that it's spinning documented . and then there's randy's headquarter day to the operation be with these home visits, including most adults. so high believe that washington will be wise to respond to the distance itself. this formula is randy and those on the which can be and i think will undermine your waste interest. that one, you know, it's fairly somewhat up going to stick that when something comes to a power, hey, might not take the situation. so usually it'll be like inject sullivan is starting with one cry that what is taking place. they might be more americans for us to approach if you would like in dealing with these events. well, let's even if, if they were american 1st the agenda, then 1st the american troops with leave syria, which are the, are there illegally under international law. you know,

we have our colleagues come prioritizes, be as riley's um, basically calling the shots, of course, using proxies. and that's the major proxy in this case is turkey. turkey is made a major is, is not stable decision. i mean, it would be, it didn't make any real friends doing this, and here's the one himself. after we have all this bluster about beyond the palestinians and then the of the whole of the genocide and god. so i mean, he looks more than hip, both of them, a hypocrite in my eyes, go ahead, steve. a orchestra or the gun 1st of all or the gun. he has a, he is the number one cause of what's happening in syria. and he had the rule and the on serious since 2011. that's what's happening today. he. he's one of his image and he kept, oh, in my opinion he cut all ties. he like, there is no to uh, the relationship on never come back and especially like to date your seeing if

anyone knows the this theaters are backed by a, by 13, on the other hand. oh, okay. it looks like we have a small problem with uh, steven cobalt. can you, can you where they'll react to that? i mean, turkeys role in all of this because it's going to burn bridges. i mean, i think the person's name is most angry about how this and besides the people that are victims of this terrorist organization is vladimir putin. he invested a lot elaborate between tip. exactly, i think put uh what the underground has done. terrified everyone in the region, including also what i found it on, saw the end, it'd be under u. e. in 20112012. most of the sort of the congress were in support of the what they called the rebels. now they say they support us even the army against terrorism in 20112012. they kicked city out of the, on a blick to cut ties, the imposing bible on syria in every shape and form. now they say they're

supporting the most close against terrorism. the reason for that is gathered on has made the boat decision to go into syria, occupied largest wealth of territories. and if he manages all succeeds in syria, he could close the trip on other neighboring countries, especially jordan, because these are in this are trying to create an alternative state for the palestinians, enjoy it. and so if he moves in syria in coordination with user id is like he is doing the current moment, descript pulls the trip on the saw, this and the jordanians, and to this will see trinity as an arrival since the days of the ultimate empire. so if he manages in syria, he quit the impulse, who saves you money on the rest of the other poor. it's something that nobody wants to see except for cats are. well, um holiday. exactly. i mean, you know, everyone may have these ambitions, but i don't see anybody really on board. um, uh to, to see these ideas comfortably. this has been in neil, autumn and there's some, isn't it? a, m d, it's, i think, give all right,

some very important points the of the set on our goals, countries which used to be on board in the attempts to house to present in most of the no longer uh, a 1st and foremost the, i say heard damage to what i said, the degree in saudi arabia. so there are a lot less players who are wanting to become involved in such adventures. but i think this is something which you also have to factor in by the way. when you want to separate what trunk is going to do it, because it's well known that trump has a very good ties with these out of stage, like saudi arabia, like the here why a lot of the country. so with that in mind, how far are risk from going to go in supporting and kind of get adventurous and interpret slab of his reading of adventures in syria? i might so i don't think that is necessarily going to be dumped into as a stick regarding go assuming such plans. and i think here that tom,

you're probably not going to see a repetition above your soul during the obama administration, when obama said the president, i saw that has to leads. i think this time is going to different some more for reasons related to the lack of how long as compared to it before. kind of also some other reasons i think related to donald trump supposedly personal approach or symptoms for him. but what he used to say and his 1st to him about well, i think we're ready. cool. new stomach, tara, here's the coolant between the limitations. now regardless of bi reservations with using such them along as a but it does appear to realize the danger in supporting such groups and how that could backfire against us. thing for us as a whole. well either or unless we're almost to the break, but i mean there's, there's a theory and what he looked into is political opposition just wants to create more and more problems for try. busy come ins comes into office. do you think there's an element of that or a, this is a, just an extension of the regionalization of the conflict. or i think that com be

a little now. i think it's quite comfortable. there isn't hold on to because from what i see a bite and is trying to also subatomic trumps epis regarding russia. look at what is the new way and how it is providing them with repetition. so with that in mind, i think your economy will allow them to hear is going to do the citing thing well, might be involved in the same kinds of attempts. also, in serious incident to you mentioned the issue of the english withdrawing his troops, according to robert kennedy was one of the members of to come to develop nellie and i have to go to a hard break right here. gentlemen, we're going to go to a hard break, and after that break will continue our discussion. i'm serious day with our to the the,

the wound when i was sure seemed wrong. just don't you have to shape out the application and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will support, we choose to look so common ground the

the will connect across the corner. all things are considered. i'm theater labelle. to remind you we're discussing syria, the right. and i want to go back to eileen before you went to the break, you were making a point about the illegal occupation of american troops and syria. a go ahead. oh yes, i was saying that, um you say look at the statements made by senior highest president electronic black, robert kennedy, who is one of those senior heights. he said that, um trump is seriously considering the withdrawal from syria. uh so, you know, these might be a type of smart bite in by the duke state in order to keep america in one way or another in voters within the slate in holy moly. and also before i go to steve here,

and can also can be a test of how much a swaying engineer who has over truck that might be his 1st cash. so you're good to go along with this. okay. i mean that, that's going to be very interesting and that's not going to go down very well with the drum space, but we're not very yeah, we're not in january. you know, steve. oh, you know, it's already been mentioned here. i mean, this is also again, but clearly against being ran and clearly against frustrated because at 1st blush, the 1st reaction that we got from think tank is stand, as i call it, is that the russians are preoccupied. the uranium so preoccupied. this is an opportunity and everyone is the greatest opportunity as of all time. go ahead. speed. uh this is uh, this is not about the ceiling or military and the opposition just from the one uh, from the 1st 2nd this, that back happened of occupying that level from this i had from these blood thirsty terrace is if theres uh, intelligent tour from one side,

it's the americans. is there any ukrainians to enter case on one side, a war against a soon army, a started a specific government, russian, and a new is. so it is actually to go say, a small world war, but it's happening on the inside of the city and land and the this will not end until the going to be in the, in a minute. the only tested in politically and i see the only way to escape the situation is going to continue until january 20. because i do not see from one thing to spend a taxpayer money to support and paid you, sir. in this much sir city terrace, at the same time, the error of the rich countries, they don't want any danger and they don't want it to seem ductile if their country is so also they'll pressure united states to put an end to all of this madness that biden, and or they've done it a started a well, yeah,

because i think we're going to find out, we know that a lot felt was role during his 1st administration. there is a very important example. he can you know util, they're the one sure. the troops away he's been then of course, depends on people blockchain and then moving to find out if that's gonna happen again. but we know we do have statements coming out of the capitals and the region here. and i remember very famously to them said that they would not allow them damascus to fall. i heard that again in the last new cycle. what does that mean in the context of 2024 going into 2025. actually the front line center headlines have been set by the most close it on and most school or the current moment it is going to be a northern how the militants cannot move forward from northern. how about to how i would ok by homeless because they want to know for is the strategic, let's say, uh, results or the help to quote the goal of this attack and that is too okay, bye holmes and insert, go live on and each side most go the most schools and,

you know, they all have different let's say interest, but they have much, were drowned in this, in my opinion, it is going to be very, very difficult now for to see an army to move forward in, from how much liberal because the americans are determined also to open a 2nd funds now from the south, with a in, in hold on where the near that are, where the militants have joined the reconciliation process. and they're managing that on a, for, as they're, and they still have weapons in their hands. and they have issued the statement that they're going to much to the school. so syrian army is one of us threats. it has to put the most cost, which is the strategic place, and they have to protect the capital. and at the same time, they have to protect the red line and that is hemma. therefore, we did, i've left the key and the money is and other soldiers to syria. it is going to have somebody in part, but i don't want to send the illusions to the people. this is going to take months and months and months and probably years in order to sever it in advance to other

people or to it live. therefore, people also are waiting and expecting for a trump to come to, to power in a game, because he's administration j. d events and artist gave both mentioned syria twice, that a trump wanted to be true and the deepest they didn't allow him to withdraw from celia in the past. and it seems that trump wants to withdraw from syria. and that is why aragon has taken this decision to go very fast and capture as much as many territory as possible before the time of the compromise. but this has learned many, many copy those that i'm the word air gun is. it's very difficult to. it's very difficult to really make deals with him because he's just like the west. they don't respect the deals. they don't respect the agreements under little space international or that if you don't have a military power to enforce the agreements, then you wouldn't be a trait, means go on means to syria, stand searching. all these agreements are now in the being and there has to be new arguments. now what each to between just different parties, you know, only,

and i can help with feel that the live and particularly the americans of the outgoing by the administration. and obviously they walk a phone on the damage they coming to trump in ministration as much as we can, as they did. and then after the 2016 election, the origins of the rusty gates scandal that plague does administration for over 2 years. so i can help, but the thing that people are trying to force issues and ask about it just pointed out, i mean, they think it and i will remember what i meant. but i'm sure all of us remember the hard, hard sluggard will work to liberate the level. and then in, you know, in like 36 hours it was go and i'm going to have to go through that again. a specific question to wiley. and i was looking at some of these videos being posted online and social media of the h t s, as they call themselves. now. they have

a lot of sophisticated harp where i was really surprised. where does that come from? the man the lies as well? i mentioned to you, turnkey, i mentioned this video, but they were even a southern american reports which say that some american weapons have sold and into the hands of some of these palm groups as dice. so yeah. so then it seems to me, it seems to be document that it was diverted, arms transferred from ukraine. keep going. yeah. yeah. so the, you know, various players from which of these weapons can come from. but uh, going back to what cable was saying, i think that um, there is going to be a higher difficulty or challenge just for the series in the military on the ground . so various reasons. first and foremost, it was a comfortable law that was being screw, mental in being of a fighting force, the land fighting force previously during the conflict now husband law and he is in

a state of war for take it became available for to become heavily involved in syria and once again. now the, your walk you through the sunny rock, a goose coming in, but those are the few hundreds. they're still clear. how much are they going to be able to make a difference? and they are far less bethel skilled. if you would like to compare the husband law . so i think this is going to be going to affect the really heavily on how the situation people on the ground. whether or not the syrian god is going to be able to take back those territories, which was seized by these groups. so stephen, so how do we, how does this phase? and i mean, is the mass discuss going to be literally and figuratively under siege of, in a who, who's counting um in a rainy and intervention of one form or another? because that's what they want to. okay. they, they, they can and because they want, they, they want a strategic defeat for to them. they want us to teach a good feed from us, go never changes. it's always the same playbook,

may be different players on the ground. steven as well as keyboard and ali said that to his beloved today, he cannot interfere and uh, you know, as, uh, we might see a ceiling and uh, on the dry on the ground has to come in. because uh they, you know, walk, you still don't have, as uh, they said they don't have that much training to see on the after 5th. that's the problem. is this year at all. i mean, after 15 years um there's just tired stuff to it because the d. r a military of government, they are not melisha melisha, they can no great it easier. we are talking about an army of a gun big that's been fighting terrorism for 15 years. they've been scattered all over the country in the east, on the south and the north. so we cannot blame the city or army or we cannot put our hopes up so much under the sea. i mean, because they didn't do it,

they can. and when they did what they're doing, what they can do without the help, they are unable to enter this war without the help of the allies. everyone is in, it's been in moscow in your, on, in your argument doesn't deluxe, whoever needs to pick up the weapon and come out of fights. because if the, if the serial last has not started, they're going to go through and it's still, you're often here on the next, they'll go country by country. so that is why everyone, if they want to save their own country, they should come and participate and help the student government and fight this and find the stairs them, and fight this works to defeat or to the god who's causing to the scales is are done but at the same time, i do see a change that's celia today is uh uh, i mean in the middle a window or started say it was alone or its only had the on, on its sides and dropped off. now we are seeing a politically having big support, especially add a button to the add

a big and the out of country is so up to kill politics. to may have a role by pressuring the turkey and pressuring or the gun. but as i said in the end, to win this, to win what's happening and when this about them, you have to be strong on the battlefield. so you can have to be able to negotiate in if it's our full situation and do i do not see the present? i saw i was going to sit the table at this time, especially while or the gotten his putting his conditions. that's what i'm going and i'm going to see, oh yeah, i don't think any anyone's gonna sit at the table with they are the one for a long time club real quick before we and the program letting you know who's gambit and, and ga. so it has failed, scan begins as blogs fail, survival this from succeed. or actually we don't know yet how is this going to and i'm calling in my contacts in syria and the situation is very dire. and um, we have a whole tools that different plans and how would we just do it?

and we'd spend this uh, this attack if uh, how about columbus. then this is going to habits and on me effect on other regions to see an army. as i mentioned, it's a, it's a state official army, it's not some unit that is a pro that is getting paid to fight. after 15 years of conscription and fighting every every day and without any thing and to be threatened like this is not like some mail it to the unit to or less than any army which have the professionals. and it's a base nowadays if they get rotations, i know exactly, and they have not to pay the jump in here. we've run out of time. fascinating discussion. i'm going to thing my guess in berlin bay wrote in batavia. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember, knuckles the,

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