the, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered on peter lavelle. nico says, the line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine, but instead, be focused on sending more weapons. the cube again, the alliance demonstrates it can never entertain plans for peace and stability, as well as security for all in the meantime, the slaughter continues the processing nato. enjoying by my guest, scott ritter in del mar is

a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector. in salt lake city, we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national in homeland security. and in san francisco, he crossed to jack rus moves. he is an associate professor of economics at st. mary's college, as well as the author of the scourge of neo liberalism, are a gentleman, cross stock rules and effect. that means he can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. let's go to 1st the scott scott's in washington dc. scott, you're usually in delmar, but you're in washington. why? to washington? because the, today we are closer to a nuclear war between the united states and russia at any time in the nuclear. this is a far more dangerous situation than the cuban missile crisis. and if something isn't done to alter the trajectory that the united states is currently on with russia, there is a not just possibility, but probability of a, of

a nuclear war. so on saturday, i will be moderating a, a, an event of the national press club of we're going to have 3 panels of distinguish speakers talking about the danger of nuclear war and talking about what can be done to, to get congress to, to take action to put pressure on the bind administration between now and january, 28th, and also what can be done to get the trump transition team to speak out forcefully against this policy. specifically the use by ukraine of america and provided american targeted attack of dismissals. the united states is a party to this conflict. we are actively attacking russia as we speak. i would say one more died. so your audience is very clear on this. the united states is attacking russia. this is an act of war. and if we continue to do this,

russia has every right to respond in time which could lead to direct conflict between united states and russia, which will inevitably become a nuclear war. so we're trying to stop this. this is what i've tried to do this coming saturday. well, i commend you and i hope it gets as much coverage as possible. i will do my best obviously, david in, in salt lake city, on the back of what scott just said, which is very important. is it in the, in the media? we get it, we're getting dribs and drabs right now of what of the a bite and the outgoing by the administration is leaving the incoming trump administration. we know the types of characters we have. we've had a general keith kelly. we of j. d vance. rick. right now, um. okay, fine. but the things i'm reading, particularly like from bloomberg, a quote, ukraine seeks a sustainable piece. well, it's what she expects the same stressing that temporary resolutions would not serve us. so ukrainian interest, this is a theme that we keep going over and over and over to russia,

has interest to rush is involved in this here. but we constantly see plans being made really with the explosion of russia. it's, that's not going to work. go ahead and salt lake city. you know, you're absolutely right here. um when uh, you know, it's difficult when a power is in what countries winning a war there and it wants to get this the term. so in this case, russia has been won even more over the last uh, 2 to 3 years. i think this uh no longer debatable. and you know, as a result, you prayed in the us have to accept a piece piece agreement terms that are minimally acceptable to the russian federation. and so that, that's really the key that's been missing all this talk about nato membership being pushed back. that's completely unacceptable. to russia, the idea of the week that we would send data peacekeepers to patrol at dmc that i me that is that on arrival, there is no way that the present people would accept that. so you know, the key,

the key to you praise security is, is not on the line with the west because we prefer not capable providing for their security of ukraine is lost. 38 percent of its population since 2014 mostly refugees and its economy is it has been destroyed. it's pretty cool at the structure has been destroyed. it's notorious. been wiped out with the 1000000 casualties, which 400000 are dead. and the only way i can have security is through a friendly relations with the russian federation. was a debt from 1991 to 2014. yes, but see yeah, it's got a jack in san francisco. that's why i have long argued the day this started ukraine last because the european pan, your opinion, security order had been destroyed. it's in totters right now. and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re thing when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west,

particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. i don't think uh, nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent to several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some tense, internal battle as to who's going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the appointments recently looked like a retread, neil kinds, i mean, you got waltz, do not work, or you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most of the trouble appointments that were supposed to shake up the deep state. uh, you know, our biggest blocks right now and uh, i don't think it portends uh,

much positive here. uh, as i said, they may try to begin negotiations of some kind, but that will be to justify. uh, uh, further uh, armed shipments to say, well, we got our negotiate from a position to strength. clear. so we got a really post the ukraine, but you know, you can send all the weapons, you want the, but if a ukraine is losing reserves in the, you know, the quality of, of the new recruits is such a, it's not going to make much difference if they send more weapons and with scott also in the same kind of media particularly bloomberg seems to have a corner on the market right now. there was mention of, but of course, carrots and sticks will be needed. i think we've had enough sticks with this. that's why we need to resolve this complex. again, you know this, this is a, it's like a self licking ice cream cone. you've been, this is, it's all hermetically, close there. and plus, there was no communication with the russian federation at all. i mean,

how can use that even think about negotiations? let's go back to the premises. the you discussed with your other guess of united states and data or not looking for a piece. the current policy of the united states has to see the strategic defeat of russia using the ukranian proxy conflict is the principal tool of the stabilisation . that is the official policy as united states and nato. so everything that's being done right now is not designed to be in opposition to the policy, but you recognize the difficulties of the current situation and try to mitigate that gets to feed by creating contain. but what we're looking at right now with all these thoughts about these is not about normalize relations. creating good relations is about containing russia, about trying to limit the scope and scale of the russian victory to keep it

temporary in nature until some future date. when the russian gauge is not reverse, the ukrainians are straight up honest about this. so the trump administration has to understand that any success with russia because i agree with your, your, your, your guess this is a non starter. i can't speak on behalf of the russian government. indeed, just simply a period of the show was get a very budget irritate the the i would just prevent prohibited me from speaking to you to our team, to anybody in the russian government. but i don't care who the but the fact is, we're not about normalizing relations. we are about containing russia. and if we don't start off the truck, the administration started off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by ceasing this attack on russia, but by openly say that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia. because that's the, that's the, that there is a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia,

russian will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy who's trying to defeat you? what you need to do therefore is defeat the enemy, which is what russian was doing on the battlefield. a new, great. yeah, i david the way the it's being reported. yeah. you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration, which of course is trying to make the situation as worse as possible. that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that because we, we are outside of a few programs like this and a judge nap where scott appears quite often. people do know the history mens one to but we're not going to do number 3. that's not an on the cards. go ahead. dave, as well. main screen was the symbol agreement. you know, russia committed there and troy now troops for a pre war, ukrainian territory. the other now for a structure likely would have been next the, the drop off people through complex,

but that still would have left 93 percent of the brands in or nationally recognize territory for any control. so they had a tremendous opportunity to have a win win piece agreement back in march 2012, 22 and the finest horse drawn to the beach or so i don't think divided restriction is interested in these they're, they're trying to rash up the world present uh, you know, truck with the, with the hard to sabotage. is there a sincere dentist and the more i think trunk will be successful in uh, you know, 14 a ceasefire that ends in the warren ukraine. i'm a little bit more skeptical that he'll be willing to immediately entertain piece terms that are, you know, a long term piece terms that are acceptable to russia. yeah. but i think disappointment in general can't walk the problem or the but the problem with that is i'll go back to jack in san francisco. is it a ceasefire? isn't the solution here? that doesn't solve the security problems that the, the european cotton and faces right now, i cease fire

a truce. it's not going to work for the reasons. so it's got just a numerated. go ahead jack, before we go to the break. yeah, i don't think they the minuses fire i, i think they want another formula for continuing to conflict. maybe at a, at a lower intensity here. the us, uh, you know, the neo cons don't leave. they have to be asked to be driven out the there's no solution to this through a negotiation in a compromise and ok, it's all over. let's go home. no, they'll stay a no fight in some way. and that's what they're searching for. right now they're searching for some new a new arrangement where the, the war can be continued under the. yeah. but that, that would mean not going right back to the beginning of the program, wisconsin. that would mean escalation. well gentlemen, we don't have much further to go before you're at the ultimate escalation,

jack. i mean, 10 seconds before we go to the break deck. yeah, well, uh, i don't think they want the further escalation, unless they can. uh, you know, more uh russia into using tactical moods. i think that's what the price i, i think they have, they've taken care of that. what weapon care category. and we'll get to talk about that in the next part of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato and ukraine, staying with our team, the the had a pretty well. we'll just need to just include the basement on the boogie in any components, just as long as it doesn't put all the states gradually saving the most for us to

call you just simply to inform. you should see any doctors me what's the rubbish to rubbish cubes. that are in your particular use or, you know, and it goes out right now the stump place has taken poison the person, your call for support. your community here is to me and that that will. so we should that a will glad shoppers to switch to issue was name. you're still doing that old. and so it's going in for all and just waiting to, to do and instead of be sort of going on here. and there must be sort of, you know, near to ask you sort of internet service your through the welcome back to across stock. were all things are considered. i'm pete, real about you,

mind you were discussing nato and you create the, the, let's go back to scott in washington. you know, for all the talk of, of negotiations. i'm getting a team together and that point person on all that, scott, at the end of the day this is going to be dealt with on the battlefield is that's the only because of the, the type of people that are being um, involved in this here. i mean, what that mean? kelly's, what mean? he and he's been doing this for like 70 years or something. i mean people don't change. okay. and that's why it's good to be settled on the battlefield. scott, you know, i, i believe that again, i don't pretend to have any insight into russian government thinking i don't speak on behalf of the russian government. that's the little aside for the f b i who's watching this that's just my assessment. after years of studying the russian government, this russian government,

they haven't done what they've done here. they didn't initiate what they called military technical means back in february of 2022. just to throw it all away. people need to understand that russia has committed to a course of action that will only hit this is an extra central issue for russia. that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians with russian policy. this is an extra central issue in russia is committed the national survival of russia to this conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to throw it away. anything less that achieving the outcomes that they have articulated, which is no nato membership. demilitarization of ukraine, the notification of your grade, anything less. and that is a strategic defeat for russia, therefore, unacceptable to russia in the less needs to understand that, that in pushing russia to this good, remember this conflict didn't begin in february 22. this conflict began well prior

to 2014, but it took its current form in 2014, and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think permits one was? what do you think mintz 2 was? what do you think the rushing the effort to of to insert draft treaties? december of 2021. when you go, what do you think the 1st negotiation phase post conflict was to get to minutes? 3 and this of all, all the effort to void this very situation. but the west refused to cooperate. the west refused to negotiate in russia now is fully committed, fully committed to achieving the outcome. and it's says, must take place for russia to survive. this is an extra central struggle, that's why i think any talk of negotiation, freeze cease, fire is a non starter because it would be russia basically say we lost it versus not losing

their winning on every phase of this conflict, militarily, economically, politically, well, either gave a tender thing that again, so many people in the west of failed to understand because they're not told is that this is an x, a central threat for russia. but for nato, this is a choice. this is a craving choice rush. it does not threaten nato security, but nato threatens russia security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does. the threatened due to security today. they didn't do so before the war. that's that was you what you needed the parade is made. so is attacking russian territory. that is a threat is russia attacking nato territory? no, it is, it, it's not the same thing. you can't the but you can, you can pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah, you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here, you know, it's been the funk fairly demonizes to us, the dresser. uh,

this was not enough for vote progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history. and you know, cruise want a piece expect 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess doubtful threat update on ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war, russia has had peace terms that were mostly reasonable and would create the situation for adjusting the last new piece. you know, the real solution is, is um, it's on the negotiating table. uh, you know, we need an us needs to negotiate, uh, kind of, uh, a new and talk with uh, with russian artist the dates are in talk where the us and russia because strategic partners to support the peace and stability throughout the world. but especially in europe, and we can do that by reading to uh, you know, have the war on drugs. so russia, pulling back all us troops, 20000 us troops on eastern europe withdrawing all of our nuclear weapons, from,

from your wisdom reciprocal reciprocal concessions on the russian side. and then restoring full diplomatic and traits last week we should have a free trade treaty with, with russia. we should have, you know, totally engagement. we should, we should give them a sphere of influence. and you know, all the former soviet republics except for the baltic states and in return they can give us your reports in, in western uh, the western hemisphere. but uh, i think uh, the advantages of hope here is the community is a champion apiece. uh president trump is a chair, i mean a piece he's pick some, some new cons. some very good want to america 1st in service, but also some neo cons that don't want peace. and i think he's going to get very frustrated with those new context. and he's going to twist their arms and make them agreed, you know, accept the terms that are accept the whole to, to moscow. yeah. well, i had a jack in san francisco. i think they died from day one. uh, the uh, the, the deep state or the bureaucratic state,

the permanent state. they are going to turn ukraine into donald trump's biggest nightmare. and we already see it happening because jack with the ideas, the david, just a numerator on our good ideas. i couldn't disagree. cope with being paid for doing any of them, jack? yeah, well, you know, uh, this is not just the conflict in ukraine. uh, i wrote an article in january 22 before the hot more began entitled 10 reasons why the us, they want russia to invade ukraine. there's a lot to the game for the empire by initiating, continuing this war. you know, before the war us was losing, as well as was there made a well, now they've totally, you know, captured, recaptured nato again. and one of the main objectives of the war, i say, was the drug, russia out of western europe economically. and the us to, uh, you know, penetrate into europe and take over the energy reading some of the other industries . well,

the u. s. a. empire has been totally successful. the amount objective. there's other objectives as well involved with before and not just defeating russia on the ground. and that's one reason why i think they're going to continue this conflict in some shape or other even under trump. well, i mean it. okay. yeah, i think this is going to be with us all for a very long time. it's interesting, jack, what you said, i mean the united states is very kind to its allies, isn't it? i mean, they destroy its energy infrastructure. it wrap it in place and sag nathan, and this is all because you're a member of nato. it's really remarkable. scott, i'll bet you. i'm not a really a betting man, but whatever outcome there is, it's good to go back to the diplomatic notes that russia sent to the united states and to nato in december before the february of 2022, with god, that's the roadmap. and they're going to refer back to it. i bet you anything they're going to do that, scott. you know, i think you're a 100 percent. correct?

uh, the, the, you know, at the time of rushes submitted these draft treaties to nato, into the united states. so they were marked him, western circles is unrealistic of what is russia think they're doing because the perception was the rush was operate from a position of weakness today. i don't think anybody's thinks the rush is operating from a position of windows. and these draft documents suddenly become extraordinarily well flooded out pieces of diplomacy that could create a european security framework that couldn't gender the kinds of stability that was spoken of that has a western sphere event. once a russians fear of life, importance, and not a of, in, in the 2 sites, not being in conflict, but here's the problem. nato does be a rush, is a threat in rush. it is a threat that because russia threatened state of but because nato has defined its

very existence as being predicated on a need to confront russia next. essentially. therefore, the failure to defeat russia has led to a situation where dado is in danger of collapsing. you know, you speak of the united states coming in and disrupting of the european economy to take it over. good. congratulations, america you did. did the united states predict the rise of a alternative for don't let in the fact that if it lands and it's heavy, not a trajectory of victory, jeremy withdraw from the you, which means jeremy withdrawals from the data. that's not what the united states wanted. did they predict the parliamentary outcome in france now that protest tried to avoid, but he kept his government, the government's collapsing now of pro peace, the sympathetic russian parliament might come in the united states and predict that europe is devolving, collapsing re defining himself. and so that's the only reason why these russian

draft, these may not be viable anymore because they were drafted with a strong unified your in mind. i don't think you're a big sister anymore, and i don't think it's going to exist. so there's going to have to be of russia in the united states or to this out. i think europe is based. oh no 5 itself. i absolutely agree here. you know, it's interesting, scott, the, you know, they, they, they, they, you had all the variables, the sanctions and the oil embargo, all days. they had all of these things figured out except for o. democracy. they didn't take that into account and now it's coming at a blow black. i'm blowing back at them, david, you know, where is mag and all of this? i'm really quite bewildered. okay. the trump ran on this very openly. okay. i don't think anybody to agree or i'll solve with a 24 hours. okay. that, that was campaign hyperbole. but you know, where is maggie in this foreign policy?

i'm getting a little worried. go ahead and salt lake city. a. well trip isn't it? is made a few really good pigs. uh, you know, uh, tulsa gabber, guys and some other folks like that that i think you're going to give them some good advice. and most notably, g man, i mean you advance is a very vocal opponent of the war. and ukraine is, he was wanted to end it yesterday, and he's, he's going to be a visual and drugs here and telling them to, you know, to be, to all kill lots ridiculous, you know, con proposals for, for a ceasefire. peace with russia. so, you know, my opinion should have sent judy bands to be that special ed boy to negotiate the, the rest of the parentheses, 3 minutes. and by the way, this, this needs to be a us rush or a piece for you pray and does not need to be involved. us representatives to crowds, interest and zaleski, is out a lot any piece piece uh, negotiations with the russian federation. so he is privy to the, you know, not a reliable part of a piece of truck is, is, or israel. i am

a part of the visa. fine of course has a joke. he spent 10 minutes in the last 3 years talking about ukraine, basically is reading out opposition or opposition to russia's invasion, which was essentially kind of a pre emptive invasion to roll back. and, you know, went through all expansion and can you create and restore your brand to it's a peaceful but for state and federal law for state status a pre made onto. so i still hopeful, but the more i've heard about the catalog plan, the more discouraged i am in terms of an immediate solution. well, as i, as for as low as i said in my and at the end of my introduction, the slaughter continues. gentlemen, i really appreciated very thoughtful program and that's all the time we have one, i think my guess in washington, dc, salt lake city and in san francisco. and of course i want to thank our viewers for

watching us here are see, see, next time. and remember across the, the, the loan sales list that the wild type guy on one of the world's most epic rivers were in cost. you are region so beautiful that the people here believe that it was bestowed upon them fight god himself. so let's get off this mountain and explore. the violence has to offer the, the, the bulk of the wall claimed and ruined the lines of tens of thousands. but it was the hague tribunal, with delta of finishing flow to the west on the spot. and i know it was that i will talk to him,

all of that will cause of the carrier. i mean them or is that the rest of your stuff or so much in the funded 13? as many of them are just that means okay, up on these you about you so mutual blood that's through the because of the thing in eco, so tired out table. i'll caution built around what sort of on teams so, so the, so the evictions or for something to bit jane stuff says i've done this your boss, they have to go into discuss as i said this. so now click on the nice to promo the problem. first i noticed was that some of the the s, b,

just get my separate i the most see on you. so we'll just that good. now move, he's not new people with low feet. is this let the students go to apply to you and you go, we've been, i have a wrong way of what shots come in yet? she has that 2nd group. got the sick that up, which is the which actually comes up points to the 3 because the sky, you are not. so are you by the it. so that's good, i guess to, to start to go by the center shifted. so need me to do. i need to use the washer and see if that a, b, c. i put a washer. was that given? christy? i said we is that what? but we did give you thought you voice new. you get us the guy you know the source you sort of yeah. the below those of see of need yes, go get off the bosnia and herzegovina as borders are defined by the dayton peace agreement. the