it's, it's the same from those guys that have been calling them nice as well. 3 on i think everyone in the basis it has no mean nobody because um why seem to be there like last time the one on the on the on the meeting or what us in the west. something is let them know. so it's not happening. so why did it function that didn't work on? i couldn't, i couldn't get it done. so i

went back because i was i thing with same tab pronounced a bit of connection with you. i read about was that her room to walk on a full across did not joining us from niger many thanks for your time. i a while it is, i like to finish to hear it for this uh what we thought uh at the top this hides you over until then. i believe that is possible. can joy the the

hello and welcome to cross popular. all things are considered on peter lavelle. nato says the line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine, but instead, be focused on sending more weapons the cube again, the alliance demonstrates it can never entertain plans for peace and stability as well as security for all in the meantime, the slaughter continues the prospecting nato. i'm joining by my guest. scott ritter in del mar is a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector in salt lake city. we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. and in san francisco, he crossed to check ras moves. he is an associate professor of economics at st.

mary's college as well as the author of the scourge of neo liberalism. right? gentlemen, cross talk roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. let's go to 1st the scott scott's in washington dc. scott, you're usually in delmar, but you're in washington. why? in washington? because the, today we are closer to a nuclear or between united states and russia at any time in the nuclear. this is a far more dangerous situation, then the cuban missile crisis. and if something isn't done to alter the trajectory that the united states is currently on with russia, there is a, not just possibility, but probability of a, of a nuclear war. so on saturday, i will be moderating a, a, and event at the national press. club of we're gonna have 3 panels of distinguish speakers talking about the danger of nuclear war and talking about what can be done to, to get congress to, to take action,

to put pressure on the buying the ministration between now and january, 28th. and also, what can be done to get the trump transition team to speak out forcefully against this policy. specifically, the use by ukraine of american provided american targeted attack of dismissals. the united states is a party to this conflict. we are actively attacking russia as we speak. i would say one more died. so your audience is very clear on this. the united states is attacking russia. this is an act of war. and if we continue to do this, russia has every right to respond in kind which could lead to direct conflict between united states and russia, which will inevitably become a nuclear war. so we're trying to stop this. this is what i've tried to do this coming saturday. well, i commend you and i hope it gets as much coverage as possible. i will do my best, obviously, david in, in salt lake city, on the back of what scott just said,

which is very important. is it in the, in the media? we get it, we're getting dribs and drabs right now of what of the a bite and the outgoing by the administration is leaving the incoming trump administration. we know the cast of characters we have. we've had a general keith kelly. we of the vans, rick right now. um okay, fine, but the thing is i'm reading particularly like from bloomberg. quote, ukraine seeks a sustainable piece. well, it's what she expects the same stressing that temporary resolutions would not serve us or ukrainian interest. this is a theme that we keep going over and over and over to russia has interest to rush is involved in this here. but we constantly see plans being made really with the exclusion of russia. it's, that's not going to work. go ahead and salt lake city. you know, you're absolutely right here. um, when uh, you know, it's difficult when

a power is there's no countries winning a war there in the once we get this the term. so in this case, russia has been even more over the last uh, 2 or 3 years. i think this uh no longer debatable. and you know, as a result, you prayed in the us, i have to accept a piece piece agreement terms that are minimally acceptable to the russian federation. and so that, that's really the key that's been missing all this talk about nato membership being pushed back. that's completely unacceptable to russia. the idea of the week that we would send data peacekeepers to patrol a dmc that i me that is that on arrival, there's no way that the present people would accept that. so you know, the key, the key to you praise security is, is not on the line with the west because we prefer not capable providing for the security of ukraine is lost. 38 percent of its population since 2014 mostly refugees and its economy is it has been destroyed. its people at the structure has

been destroyed. it's notorious, been wiped out with a 1000000 casualties, which 400000 are data. and the only way can have security is through a friendly relations with the russian federation. was a debt from 1991 to 2014. yes, but see yeah, it's got a jack in san francisco. that's why i have long argued the day this started ukraine last because the european pan, your opinion, security order had been destroyed. did some pat or is right now. and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re thing when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. no, i don't think the nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations

without any kind of intent to several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some time, some terminal battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the appointments recently looked like a retread, neil kinds, i mean, you got walks through doug, work and i, you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most of the trouble appointments that were supposed to shake up the deep state. uh, you know, i walk through right now and uh, i don't, i get bought tens uh much positive here. uh. as i said, they may try to begin negotiations of some kind, but that will be to justify. uh, uh, further uh, armed shipments to say, well, we gotta negotiate from a position to strength. clear. so we got a really both the ukraine, but you know,

you can send all the weapons, you want the, but if a ukraine is losing reserves in the, you know, the quality of, of the new recruits is such a, it's not going to make much difference if they send the more weapons. emma's scott also in the same kind of media particularly bloomberg, seems to have a corner on the market right now. there was mention of, but of course the carrots and sticks will be needed. i think we've had enough sticks with this. that's why we need to resolve this complex. again, you know this, this is a, it's like a self licking ice cream cone. you, this is, it's all hermetically, close there. and plus, there was no communication with the russian federation at all. i mean, how can use that even think about negotiations? let's go back to the premises that the you discussed with your other guess of united states and data or not looking for a piece. the current policy of the united states has to see the strategic defeat of russia using the ukranian proxy conflict is the principal tool of the stabilisation

. that is the official policy as united states and nato. so everything that's being done right now is not designed to be in opposition to the policy, but you recognize the difficulties of the current situation and try and mitigate that gets to feed by creating contain. but what we're looking at right now with all these thoughts about these is not about normalize relations. creating good relations is about containing russia about trying to limit the scope and scale of the russian victory to keep it temporary in nature until some future day when the russian gains, if i reverse the ukrainians, are straight up honest about this. so the trump administration has to understand that any success with russia, because i agree with your, your, your, your guess this is a non starter. i can't speak on behalf of the russian government. indeed, just simply a period of the show was going to very budget irritate the f

b i would just prevent, prohibited me from speaking to you to our team, to anybody in the russian government. but i don't care if he, but the fact is, we're not about normalize relations. we are about containing russia. and if we don't start off the truck, the administration started off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by ceasing this attack on russia, but by openly say that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia. because that's the, that's the, that there is a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia, russian will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy who's trying to defeat you? what you need to do therefore, is defeat the enemy, which is what russia is doing on the battlefield. a new, great, david, the way the units being reported that you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration. which of course is trying to make the situation as worse as

possible. that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that because the, the, or outside of a few programs like this and a judge nap where scott appears quite often. people do know that history means one to but we're not going to do number 3, that's not an on the cards. go ahead. dave, as well. main street was the symbol agreement. no rush. i committed baron to here and ask groups for a pre war. he created a territory over there now for a structure like we would have a next the, the dog boss, people through the complex, but that still would have left 93 percent of the brands that are nationally recognize territory for any control. so they had a tremendous opportunity to have a win win piece agreement back in march 2012, 22. and the final step worst johnson to be to it. so i don't think divided

restoration is interested in these they're, they're trying to rash up the world, present the, you know, truck with a little hard to sabotage is very sincere attempts to end the war. i think trunk will be successful in uh you know, 14 a ceasefire that ends ends. the warranty crane. i'm a little bit more skeptical that he'll be willing to immediately entertain peace terms that are, you know, a long term piece terms that are acceptable to russia. yeah. but i've been disappointed that in general, can walk through the problem or the but the problem with that is i'll go, i'll go back to jack in san francisco, is it a ceasefire? isn't the solution here? that doesn't solve the security problems that the, the european cotton in faces right now, a ceasefire, a truce. it's not going to work for the reasons that scott just enumerated. go ahead track before we go to the break. yeah, i don't think that even minuses fire. i, i think they want another formula for continually in a conflict, maybe at a, at a lower intensity here in the us. uh, you know,

the neo cons don't leave. they have to be asked to be driven out the there's no solution to this through a negotiation in a compromise and ok, it's all over. let's go home. no, they'll stay a no fight in some way. and that's what they're searching for. right now they're searching for some new a new arrangement where the, the war can be continued under the. yeah. but that, that would mean not going right back to the beginning of the program, wisconsin. that would mean escalation. well gentlemen, we don't have much further to go before you're at the ultimate escalation, jack. i mean, 10 seconds before we go to the break. jack. yeah, well, uh, i don't think they want the further escalation, unless they can. uh, you know, more uh russia into using tactical moods. i think that's what the price i, i think they have, they've taken care of that. what weapon care category. and we'll get to talk about

that in the next part of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato and ukraine. stay with our team. the mountains analyst at the wild side got a one of the well most ethics rivers were in cost us a region so beautiful. the people here believe that it was bestowed upon them by god himself. so let's get off this mountain and explore. the vineland has to offer the

welcome back. the cross stock were all things are considered on peter la belcher mind, you were discussing nato n ukraine the well, let's go back to scott in washington. you know, for all the talk of, of negotiations and getting a team together and that point person on all that, scott, at the end of the day, this is going to be dealt with on the battlefields is that's the only because of the, the type of people that are being um, involved in this here. i mean, what that mean? kelly's what to mean. he and he's been doing this for like 70 years or something. i mean people don't change. okay. and that's why it's good to be settled on the battlefield. scott, you know, i, i believe that again, i don't pretend to have any insight into russian government thinking i don't speak

on behalf of the russian government. that's the little aside for the f b i who's watching this that's just my assessment. after years of studying the russian government, this russian government, they haven't done what they've done here. they didn't initiate what they called military technical means back in february of 2022. just to throw it all away. people need to understand that russia has committed to a course of action that will only hit this is an extra central issue for russia. that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians and russian policy. this is an extra central issue in russia is committed the national survival of russia to this conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to draw it away. anything less than a cheating. the outcomes that they have articulated, which is no nato membership, the militarization of ukraine, the notification of your grade. anything less than that is a strategic defeat for russia. therefore, unacceptable to russia,

in the less needs to understand that, that in pushing russia to this good, remember this conflict didn't begin in february 22. this conflict began well prior to 2014, but it, it took its current form in 2014, and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think menaced one was, what do you think the bench to was? what do you think the rushing the effort to of to insert draft treaties in december of 2021 way. go. what do you think the 1st negotiation phase post conflict was to get to minutes? 3 in this double. oh, the effort to avoid this very situation. but the west refused to cooperate. the west refused to negotiate in russia now is fully committed, fully committed to achieving the outcome and it's says, must take place for russia to survive. this is an extra central struggle. that's why i think any talk of negotiation, freeze cease. fire is

a non starter because it would be russia basically say we lost it versus not losing their winning on every phase of this conflict, militarily, economically, politically, well, either gave a tender thing that again, so many people in the west of failed to understand because they're not told is that this is an x, a central threat for russia, but for nato, this is a choice. this is a craving choice rush. it does not threaten nato's security, but nato threatens russia security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does the threatened due to security today, they didn't do so before the war. that's, that was you within the frame is made. so is attacking russian territory. that is a threat. is russia attacking nato territory? no, it is, it, it's not the same thing. you can't. you can, you can pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah,

you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been the funk fairly demonizes as the dresser. uh, this was not enough for both regression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history. and you know, guzman, i previously spent 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess that felt right. update on ukraine in everyday sense, every day since the day after the war, russia has had peace terms that were mostly reasonable and, and we've created the situation for just the last of the piece. you know, the real solution is, is um, it's on negotiating table. uh, you know, we need an us needs indigo. she kind of a new and talk with, with russia, not just the dates on it in taught where the us and russia, because strategic partners to support the piece, instability throughout the world. but especially in europe. and we can do that by

reading to, uh, you know, have the war on drugs. so russia, pulling back all us troops, 20000 us troops from eastern europe withdrawing all over. and you can weapons from, from your wisdom, reciprocal reciprocal concessions on the russian side. and then restoring full diplomatic and traits last week we should have a free trade treaty with, with russia. we should have, you know, totally engagement. we should, we should give them a sphere of influence. you know, all the former soviet republics except for the baltic states and the mature they can give us your thoughts in, in western uh, the western hemisphere. but uh, i think uh, the advantages i hope here is the cooling is a champion, a piece. uh president. trump is a chair in a piece these pick some, some new cards. uh, some very good want to america 1st service, but also some new accounts that don't want peace. and i think he's going to get very frustrated with those in the context. and he's going to twist their arms and make them agree, you know, accepts terms that are acceptable to,

to moscow. yeah. well, i had a jack in san francisco. i think they died from day one. uh, the uh, the, the deep state or the bureaucratic state, the permanent state. they are going to turn ukraine in to donald trump's biggest nightmare. and we already see it happening because jack, with the ideas that david just a numerator on drugs are good ideas. i couldn't disagree torpid being paid for doing any of them. jack. yeah, well, you know, uh, this is not just the conflict in ukraine. uh, i wrote an article in january 22 before the hot war began entitled 10 reasons why the us, they want russia to invade ukraine. there's a lot to the game for the empire by initiating, continuing this war. you know, before the war us was losing, as well as was the nato. well, now they've totally, you know, captured, recapture nato again. and one of the main objectives of the war, i say,

was the drug, russia out of western europe economically. and the us to, uh, you know, penetrate into europe and take over the energy reading some of the other industries . well, us a empire has been totally successful amount objective. there's other objectives as well involved with this, or not just defeating russia on the ground. and that's one reason why i think they're going to continue this conflict in some shape or other even under trump. well, i mean it, it, yeah, i think this is going to be with us all for a very long time. it's interesting, jack, what you said, i mean the united states is very kind to its allies, isn't it? i mean, they destroy its energy infrastructure. it wrap it in place and sag nathan, and this is all because you're a member of nato. it's really remarkable. scott: i'll bet you i'm not a really a betting man, but whatever outcome there is, it's good to go back to the diplomatic notes that russia sent to the united states

and to nato. uh, in december, before the february of 2022, with god. that's the roadmap and they're going to refer back to it. i bet you anything they're going to do that, scott. i think you're a 100 percent correct? uh, the the, you know, at the time rushes submitted these draft treaties to nato into the united states. so they were marked him, western circles is unrealistic of what is russia think they're doing a because the perception was the rush was operate from a position of weak us today. i don't think anybody's thinks the rush is operating from a position of weakness. had these draft documents suddenly become extraordinarily well fried out pieces of diplomacy that could create a european security framework that couldn't gender the kind of stability that was spoken of that has a western sphere of influence. a russians fear of life, importance, and not a of, in, in the 2 sides, not being in conflict,

but here's the problem. nato does. the rush is a threat in rush. it is a threat that because russia threatened the state of but because nato has defined its very existence as being predicated on a need to confront russia, thanks essentially. therefore, the failure to defeat russia has led to a situation where data is in danger of collapsing. you know, you speak of the united states coming in and disrupting of the european economy to take it over. good. congratulations, america you did. did the united states predict the rise of a alternative for doing sled in the fact that if it lands and it's heavy, not a trajectory of victory? jeremy withdrawal from the you, which means jeremy with drugs of data, that's not what the united states wanted, that they predict the parliamentary outcome in france now that protest tried to avoid, but he kept his government, the government's collapsing now of pro peace, the sympathetic russian parliament might come in the united states and predict that

europe is devonne. busy the collapsing re defining itself. and so that's the only reason why these russian draft treaties may not be viable anymore, because they were drafted with a strong unified you're in mind. i don't think that you're a big sister anymore, and i don't think it's going to exist. so there's going to have to be of russia in the united states worship as a, as exert as baseball, notified yourself. i absolutely agree here. it's interesting, scott, the, you know, they, they, they, they, you had all the variables, the sanctions, and the oil embargo, all they had, all of these things figured out except for, oh, democracy. they didn't take that into account and now it's coming. a blow black, i'm blowing back at them david, you know, where is maga in all of this? i'm really quite bewildered. okay. the trump ran on this very openly. okay.

i don't think anybody to agree or i'll start with a 24 hours. okay. that that was campaign high per billy. but you know, where is maga in this? for him policy, i'm getting a little worried. go ahead in salt lake city as well. trip isn't it? is made a few really good big, you know, uh, tulsa gab or guys and some other folks like that that i think you're going to give them some good advice. and most notably, g mail, i mean judy vance is a very vocal opponent of the war. and ukraine is. he was wanting to ended yesterday . and he's, he's going to be a visual and drugs here. i'm telling them to, you know, to be, to all kill. it's ridiculous, you know, con proposals for, for a ceasefire piece with russia. so, you know, my opinion should have sent ged bass to be that special ed boy to negotiate the, the rest of the parentheses pretty much. and by the way, this, this needs to be a us rush or a piece for you pray and does not need to be involved. us represents the praise

interest and zaleski is out a lot, any piece piece, uh, negotiations with the russian federation. so he is proven to be uh, you know, not a reliable partner for peace truck is, is, or israel. i am a part of visa. fine, of course has a joe go. he spent 10 minutes in the last 3 years talking about the praying, basically is reading our position. are opposition to rushes invasion which is essentially kind of a preemptive invasion to roll back. and, you know, went through all expansion and can you create and restore your brand to it's a peaceful buffer state neutral buffer state status pre made onto. so i still hopeful, but the more i've heard about the kellogg plan, the more discouraged i am in terms of an immediate solution. well, as i resume, as i said in my and at the end of my introduction, the slaughter continues. gentlemen, i really appreciated very thoughtful program and that's all the time we have one,

i think my guess in washington, dc, salt lake city and in san francisco. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here our see see next time. and remember across the of the, the oh, when i was wrong, just don't you have to safe house because of the advocates and engagement because the trail when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground, the

the cause of the syrian crisis, the buttons moscow says the doha will host a meeting on the south today in such a resolution as, as boxes top tipped them out earlier to the us having a hand in the latest terrace defensive in the country, and a major interview with talk of calls. as damascus withdrawals its full says from the city of hama exclusive footage for me and baffled a laptop for deals and m. c. i pulled a band and 5 sir. info says we have from my local describes life on the terrace. there are pictures is the same. i cannot kenneth sherry, thank you for security purposes. can you imagine some of the things.