the end xavier's do whatever i was, i 10 and the cell convention of cells and i been unable to continue and this time or nightmare. but it was time when these light invented 1000 living on they the system automatically, the stores, the different names, villages, which are didn't go to the same degree and play the sauce. so as this time the extent of the destruction into the bands occupied territories and songs, and but on these higher than before, ended this bulk of the same town that was seen garza very slightly. darley all combined, but the store and expensive population. and the low bulk of the faxing side is that there is a preventative and these villages form we can, doesn't house. well, if this how it is to buy from the news here about as far for me today, taking the range of the top take care of us,

the the the hello and welcome to cross stopped. were all things are considered. and peter lavelle, nato says be a line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine,

but in said, be focused on sending more weapons. the cube again, the alliance demonstrates it can never entertain plans for peace and stability as well as security for all in the meantime, the slaughter continues the crossing nato. i'm joined by my guess. scott ritter in del mar is a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector. in salt lake city. we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. and in san francisco he crossed to jack rus moves. he is an associate professor of economics at st. mary's college, as well as the author of the scourge of neo liberalism, are a gentleman. crosstalk rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want . and i always appreciate it. let's go to 1st. the scotts scotts in washington dc. scott, you're usually in delmar, but you're in washington. why? to washington?

because the, today we are closer to a nuclear war between the united states and russia at any time in the nuclear, this is a far more dangerous situation than the cuban missile crisis. and if something isn't done to alter the trajectory that the united states is currently on with russia, there is a not just possibility, but probability of a, of a nuclear war. so on saturday, i will be moderating a uh, an event of the national press club of we're gonna have 3 panels of distinguish speakers talking about the danger of nuclear war and talking about what can be done to, to get congress to, to take action, to put pressure of the bind administration between now and january, 28th, and also what can be done to get the trump transition team to speak out forcefully against this policy. specifically,

the use by ukraine of american provided american targeted attack of dismissals. the united states is a party to this conflict. we are actively attacking russia as we speak. i would say one more died. so your audience is very clear on this. the united states is attacking russia. this is an act of war. and if we continue to do this, russia has every right to respond in kind which could lead to direct conflict between united states and russia, which will inevitably become a nuclear war. so we're trying to stop this. this is what i've tried to do this coming saturday. well, i commend you and i hope it gets as much coverage as possible. i will do my best. obviously, david and salt lake city on the back of what scott just said, which is very important. is it in the, in the media? we get it, we're getting dribs and drabs right now of what of the a bite and the outgoing by the administration is leaving the incoming trump administration. we know the types of characters we have. we've had

a general keith kelly. we of the vans rick right now. um. okay, fine. but the thing is i'm reading particularly like from bloomberg, a quote. ukraine seeks a sustainable piece. well, it's what she expects the same stressing that temporary resolutions would not serve us. so ukrainian interest, this is a theme that we keep going over and over and over to russia, has interest to rush is involved in this here. but we constantly see plans being made really with the exclusion of russia. it's, that's not going to work. go ahead and salt lake city. a good you're actually right here. um, when uh, you know, it's difficult when a power is, is in what countries when he, in a war, there are other wants to get this the terms. so in this case, russia has been even more over the last 2 or 3 years. i think gas uh no longer debatable. and you know, as a result, you prayed in the us have to accept

a piece piece agreement terms that are minimally acceptable to the russian federation. and so that, that's really the key that's been missing all this talk about nato membership being pushed back. that's completely unacceptable. to russia, the idea of the week that we would send data peacekeepers to patrol at the end of the that, i mean that is that on arrival there's no way that the present people would accept that. so you know, the key, the key to you praise security is, is not on the line with the west because we prefer not capable providing for their security of ukraine is lost 30 percent of its population since 2014 mostly refugees and its economy is it has been destroyed, its people at the structure has been destroyed. it's notorious, been wiped out with the 1000000 casualties, which 400000 are dead. and the only way can have security is through a friendly relations with russian parish. wells is a debt from 1991 to 2014. yes. but see yeah, it's got

a jack in san francisco. that's why i have long argued the day this started ukraine last because the european pan, your opinion, security order had been destroyed. did some pat or is right now, and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re thing. when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. i don't think uh, nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry, go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent to several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some tense, internal battle, as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um,

because of the appointments recently looked like a retread. neil cons, i mean you got waltz, do not work or you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most of the trouble appointments that was supposed to shake up the deep state. uh, you know, our biggest blocks right? now and uh, i don't, i get bought tens uh, much positive here. uh, as i said, they may try to begin negotiations of some kind, but that will be to justify. uh, uh, further uh, armed shipments to say, well, we gotta negotiate from a position to strength. clear. so we gotta really post the ukraine, but you know, you can send all the weapons, you want the, but if a ukraine is losing reserves in the, you know, the quality of, of the new recruits is such a, it's not going to make much difference if they send more weapons and much scott, also in the same kind of media particularly bloomberg, seems to have

a corner on the market right now. there was mention of, but of course the carrots and sticks will be needed. i think we've had enough sticks with this. that's why we need to resolve this complex. again, you know this, this is a, it's like a self licking ice cream cone. you, this is, it's all hermetically, close there. and plus, there was no communication with the russian federation at all. i mean, how can you even think about negotiations? let's go back to the premises. the you discussed with your other guess of united states data or not looking for a piece. the current policy of the united states is to see the strategic defeat of russia using the ukranian proxy conflict is the principal tool of the stabilisation . that is the official policy as united states and nato. so everything that's being done right now is not designed to be in opposition to the policy,

but you recognize the difficulties of the current situation and try to mitigate that gets to feed by creating contain. but what we're looking at right now with all these thoughts about these is not about normalize relations. creating good relations is about containing russia about trying to limit the scope and scale of the russian victory to keep it temporary in nature until some future day when the russian gauge is not reverse the ukrainians are straight up honest about this. so the trump administration has to understand that any success with russia, because i agree with your, your, your, your guess this is a non starter. i can't speak on behalf of the russian government. indeed, just simply appear, you know, the show was going to very budget irritate the f b i, which is prevent, prohibited me from speaking to you to our team, to anybody in the russian government. but i don't care who the but the fact is, we're not about normalize relations. we are about containing russia. and if we

don't start off the truck, the administration started off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by ceasing this attack on russia, but by openly say that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia. because that's the, that's the, that there is a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia, russian will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy who's trying to defeat you? what you need to do therefore is defeat the enemy, which is what russian was doing on the battlefield. a new, great. yeah, i david the way the it's being reported. yeah. you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration, which of course is trying to make the situation is worse as possible. and that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that because the, the, or outside of

a few programs like this and a judge nap where scott appears quite often. people do know that history means one to but we're not going to do number 3, that's not an on the cards. go ahead. dave, as well. main street was the symbol agreement. you know, russia committed there and drawing, ask groups for a pre award cranium territory. other not for a structure likely would have a next the, the drop off people through complex, but that still would have left 93 percent of the brands that are nationally recognized your authority for any control. so they had a tremendous opportunity to have a win win piece agreement back in march, 201222 and the buying and so forth. john, so the retailer, so i don't think dividing restoration is interested in these they're, they're trying to rash up the world present. uh, you know, truck with the, with the hard to sabotage is very sincere attempts to end the war. i think trunk will be successful in uh you know, 14 a ceasefire that ends ends. the warranty crane. i'm

a little bit more skeptical that he'll be willing to immediately entertain piece terms that are, you know, a long term piece terms that are acceptable to russia. yeah. but i think disappointment in general can walk through the problem or the but the problem with that is i'll go, i'll go back to jack in san francisco, is it a ceasefire? isn't the solution here that doesn't solve the security problems that the, the european cotton and faces right now, i cease fire a truce. it's not going to work for the reasons that scott, just the numerated. go ahead jack. before we go to the break. yeah, i don't think david minuses fire i, i think they want another formula for continuing to conflict. maybe at a, at a lower intensity here in the us. uh, you know, the neo cons the don't leave. they have to be, it has to be driven out the, there's no solution to this through a negotiation in a compromise and ok, it's all over. let's go home. no, they'll stay a no fight in some way. and that's what they're searching for. right now they're

searching for some new a new arrangement where the, the war can be continued under the. yeah. but that, that would mean not going right back to the beginning of the program, wisconsin. that would mean escalation. well gentlemen, we don't have much further to go before you're at the ultimate escalation, jack. i mean, 10 seconds before we go to the break deck. yeah, well, uh, i don't think they want the further escalation, unless they can. uh, you know, more uh russia into using tactical moods. i think that's what the price i, i think they have, they've taken care of that. what weapon care category. and we'll get to talk about that in the next part of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato and ukraine state without doing the

same wrong. just don't have to shape house to come after kids and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground,

the the welcome back to across stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter le belcher mind. you were discussing nato n ukraine. the . let's go back to scott in washington. you know, for all the talk of, of negotiations. i'm getting a team together and the point person on all that. scott, at the end of the day, this is going to be dealt with on the battlefields is that's the only because of the, the type of people that are being um, involved in this here. i mean, what that mean? kelly's what i mean, he and he's been doing this for like 70 years or something. i mean, people don't change. okay. and that's why it's good to be settled on the battlefield. scott, you know, i, i believe that again,

i don't pretend to have any insight into russian government thinking i don't speak on behalf of the russian government. that's the little aside for the f b i who's watching this that's just my assessment. after years of studying the russian government, this russian government, they haven't done what they've done here. they didn't initiate what they called military technical means back in february of 2022. just to throw it all away. people need to understand that russia has committed to a course of action that will only hit this is an extra central issue for russia. that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians with russian policy. this is an extra central issue in russia has committed the national survival of russia to this conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to throw it away. anything less than a cheaper than the outcomes that they have articulated, which is no nato membership demilitarization of ukraine di notification to be

trained. anything less than that is a strategic defeat for russia. therefore, unacceptable to russia. and the less needs to understand that, that in pushing russia to this good, remember this conflict didn't begin in february 22. this conflict began well prior to 2014, but it took its current form in 2014. and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think menaced one was, what do you think vince 2 was? what do you think the russian effort to of to insert draft treaties. december of 2021 way. go. what do you think the 1st negotiation phase post conflict was to get to minutes 3 and this of all over the effort to avoid this very situation. but the west refused to cooperate. the west refused to negotiate in russia now is fully committed, fully committed to achieving the outcome. it's says must take place for russia to

survive. this is an extra central struggle. that's why i think any talk of negotiation, freeze cease. fire is a non starter because it would be russia basically say we lost it versus not losing their winning on every phase of this conflict, militarily, economically, politically, well, either gave a tender thing that again, so many people in the west of failed to understand because they're not told is that this is an x, a central correct for russia, but for nato, this is a choice. this is a craving choice rush. it does not threaten nato security, but nato threatens russia security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does the threatened data security today. they didn't do so before the war that's, that's why it's created. so is attacking russian territory. that is a threat is russia attacking nato territory? no, it is, it, it's not the same thing. you can't the but you can,

you can pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah, you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been the funk fairly demonizes as the dresser. uh, this was not enough for vote progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history and you know, cause want a pc spent 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess doubtful threat update on ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war russia has at peace terms that were mostly reasonable and would create the situation for just the last new piece. you know, the real solution is, is um, it's on negotiating table. uh, you know, we need an us needs to negotiate, uh, kind of, uh, a new and talk with uh, with russian artist the dates are in talk where the us and russia because strategic partners to support the peace and stability throughout the world. but especially in

europe, and we can do that by reading to uh, you know, have the war on drugs. so russia, pulling back all us troops, 20000 us troops from eastern europe, withdrawing all of our nuclear weapons from, from europe, wisdom reciprocal, reciprocal concessions on the russian side. and then restoring full diplomatic and traits last week we should have a free trade treaty with, with russia. we should have a, you know, total and engagement. we should, we should give them a sphere of influence. and you know, all the former soviet republics except for the baltic states and the mature they can give us your thoughts it in, in western uh, the western hemisphere. but uh, i think uh, the advantages of hope here is the community is a champion apiece. uh president trump is a chair going to be is these pick some, some neo cons? some very good want to america 1st in service, but also some neo cons that don't want peace. and i think he's going to get very frustrated with those new context. and he's going to twist their arms and make them

agreed, you know, accept the terms that are accept the whole to, to moscow. yeah. well, i had a jack in san francisco. i think they died from day one of the, the, the deep state or the bureaucratic state, the permanent state. they're going to turn ukraine into donald trump's biggest nightmare. and we already see it happening because jack, with the idea is the david just the numerator on our good ideas. i couldn't disagree. cope with being paid for doing any of them. jack. yeah, well, you know, uh, this is not just the conflict in ukraine. uh, i wrote an article in january 22 before the hot war began entitled 10 reasons why the us, they want russia to invade ukraine. there's a lot to be game for the empire by initiating, continuing this war. you know, before the war, us was losing influence. was that made a well, now they've totally,

you know, captured, recaptured nato again. and one of the main objectives of the war, i say, was the drug, russia out of western europe economically. and the us to, uh, you know, penetrate into europe and take over the energy reading some of the other industries . well, the u. s. a. empire has been totally successful amount objective. there's other objectives as well involved with before and not just defeating russia on the ground . and that's one reason why i think they're going to continue this conflict in some shape or other even under trump. well, i mean it, it, yeah, i think this is good to be with us all for a very long time. it's interesting, jack, what you said, i mean the united states is very kind to its allies, isn't it? i mean, they destroy its energy infrastructure. it wrap it in place and sag nation, and this is all because you're a member of nato. it's really remarkable. scott, i'll bet you. i'm not a really a betting man, but whatever outcome there is, it's good to go back to the diplomatic notes that russia sent to the united states

and to nato uh, in december, before the february of 2022, with god. that's the roadmap. and they're going to refer back to it. i bet you anything they're going to do that scott of the, i think you're a 100 percent correct. of the video at the time rushes submitted these draft treaties to nato into the united states. so they were mocked him, western circles is unrealistic of what is russia think they're doing because the perception was the rush was operate from a position of weakness today. i don't think anybody thinks the rush is operating from a position of windows. had these draft documents suddenly become an extraordinarily well fraud out pieces of diplomacy that could create a european security framework that couldn't gender the kinds of stability that was spoken of that has a western sphere event. once a russians fear of life,

importance, and not a of, in the 2 sites, not being in conflict, but here's the problem. nato does be a rush, is a threat in russia is a threat that because russia threatened the state of but because nato has defined, its very existence as being predicated on a need to confront russia next. essentially. therefore, the failure to defeat russia has led to a situation where data is in danger of collapsing. you know, you speak of the united states coming in and disrupting the european economy to take it over. good, congratulations, america you did. did the united states predict the rise of a alternative for doing sled in the fact that if it lands and it's heavy on a trajectory of victory? jeremy withdraw from the you, which means jeremy withdraws from the data. that's not what the united states wanted. did they predict the parliamentary outcome in france now that protest tried to avoid, but he kept his government, the government's collapsing now of pro peace,

the sympathetic russian parliament might come in the united states and predict that europe is devolving, collapsing re define himself. and so that's the only reason why these russian draft, these may not be viable anymore because they were drafted with a strong unified you're in mind, i don't think you're a big sister anymore, and i don't think it's going to exist. so there's going to have to be of russia in the united states for to this out. i think europe is based. oh no 5 itself. i absolutely agree here. you know, it's interesting, scott, the, you know, they, they, they, they, you had all the variables, the sanctions and the oil embargo, all they had, all of these things figured out except for, oh, democracy. they didn't take that into account and now it's coming at a blow black. i'm blowing back at them, david, you know, where's mag and all of this? i'm really quite bewildered. okay. the trump ran on this very openly. okay.

i don't think anybody to agree you're all saw within 24 hours. okay. that that was campaign hyperbole. but you know where he is? maggie in this foreign policy. i'm getting a little worried. go ahead and salt lake city as well. trip isn't it? is made a few really good goods, you know, uh, tulsa gabber, guys and some other folks like that, that i think you're going to give them some good advice. and most notably, g man, i mean, judy vance is very vocal opponent of the war. and ukraine is, he was wanted to end it yesterday, and he's, he's going to be a visual and drugs here. i'm telling them to, you know, to be, to all kill lots ridiculous, you know, con proposals for, for a ceasefire piece with russia. so, you know, my opinion should have sent ged vans to be that special ed boy to negotiate the, the rest of the parentheses, fremont. and by the way, this, this needs to be

a us rush or a piece for you pray and does not need to be involved. us represents the praise interest. and zalinski is out a lot, any piece piece uh, negotiations with the russian federation. so he is privy to the, you know, not to rely on margaret for peace. trump is, it is or israel, i am a part of the visa, find it for us as a joke. he spent 10 minutes in the last 3 years talking about the praying, basically is reading our position, our opposition to rushes invasion which is essentially kind of a pre emptive invasion to roll back. and, you know, went through all expansion and can you create and restore your brand to it's a peaceful but for state and federal law for state status a pre made onto. so i still hopeful, but the more i've heard about the catalog plan, the more discouraged i am in terms of an immediate solution. well, as science resume, as i said in my and at the end of my introduction, the slaughter continues. gentlemen,

i really appreciated very thoughtful program and that's all the time we have one, i think my guess in washington, dc, salt lake city and in san francisco. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are the see next time. and remember across the the mount fields, the steps, the wild side goss, i'm one of the world's most epics rivers, when cost us a region so beautiful that the people here believe that it was bestowed upon them by god himself. so let's get off this mountain and explore. the vineland has to offer the the,

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