i noticed on the store and the person inquiring about the mountains and a list of the wild type guy on one of the worlds most ethics rivers were in cost. us a region is so beautiful that the people here believe that it was bestowed upon them by god himself. so let's get off this mountain and explore the vineland has to offer the the

hello and welcome to cross popular all things are considered on peter lavelle. nato says the line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine, but instead, be focused on sending more weapons the cube again, the alliance demonstrates it can never entertain plans for peace and stability, as well as security for all in the meantime, the slaughter continues the prospecting nato, and joining by my guest, scott ritter in del mar is a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector in salt lake city. we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national in homeland security. and in san francisco, we cross to check russ moves. he is an associate professor of economics at saint

mary's college as well as author of the scourge of neo liberalism. all right, gentlemen, cross stock rolls in effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. let's go to 1st the scott scott's in washington dc. scott, you're usually in delmar, but you're in washington. y to washington. because the, today we are closer to a nuclear or between united states and russia at any time in the nuclear. this is a far more dangerous situation, then the cuban missile crisis. and if something isn't done to alter the trajectory that the united states is currently on with russia, there is a, not just possibility, but probability of a, of a nuclear war. so on saturday, i will be moderating a uh, an event at the national press club of we're gonna have 3 panels of distinguish speakers talking about the danger of nuclear war and talking about what can be done to, to get congress to, to take action,

to put pressure on the binding ministration between now and january, 28th, and also what can be done to get the trump transition team to speak out forcefully against this policy. specifically the use by ukraine of america and provided american targeted attack of dismissals. the united states is a party to this conflict. we are actively attacking russia as we speak. i would say one more died. so your audience is very clear on this. the united states is attacking russia. this is an act of war. and if we continue to do this, russia has every right to respond in time which could lead to direct conflict between united states and russia, which will inevitably become a nuclear. ringback so we're trying to stop this, this is what i've tried to do this coming saturday. well, i commend you and i hope it gets as much coverage as possible. i will do my best. obviously, david and salt lake city on the back of what scott decided,

which is very important. is it in the, in the media is we get it, we're getting dribs and drabs right now of what of the a, by the outgoing by the administration is leaving the incoming trump administration . we know the cast of characters we have. we've had a general keith kelly. we of g d vance. rick right now. um. okay, fine. but the thing is i'm reading particularly like from bloomberg. quote, ukraine seeks a sustainable piece. well, it's what she expects, the same, stressing that temporary resolutions would not serve us. so ukrainian interest. this is a theme that we keep going over and over and over to russia. has interest to rush is involved in this here. but we constantly see plans being made really with the exclusion of russia. it's, that's not going to work. go ahead and salt lake city. you know, you're absolutely right here. um, when uh, you know, it's difficult when a power is, is in our countries when he, in a war there, in the,

once we get this term. so in this case, russia has been even more over the last uh, 2 or 3 years. i think this uh no longer debatable and, you know, as a result, you prayed in the us, i have to accept a piece piece agreement terms that are minimally acceptable to the russian federation. and so that, that's really the key that's been missing all this talk about nato membership being pushed back. that's completely unacceptable to russia. the idea that we could that we would send data peacekeepers to patrol a dmc that i me that is that on arrival, there's no way that the present people would accept that. so you know, the key, the key to you praise security is, is not be align with west because we prefer not capable providing for the security of ukraine is lost. 38 percent of its population since 2014 mostly refugees and its economy. is it has been destroyed,

it's pretty political structure has been destroyed. it's notorious, been wiped out with a 1000000 casualties, which 400000 or debt. and the only way can have security is through a friendly relations with russian federation. was a debt from 1991 to 2014. yes, but say it's go to jack and san francisco. that's why i have long argued the day this started ukraine loss because the european pan, your opinion, security order had been destroyed. it's in patters right now. and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re think when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's. and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. no, i don't think the nato wants peace. they may. i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent to

several anything and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some time, some terminal battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the apartments recently looked like a retread, neal. cons, i mean, you got walks through doug, work and i, you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most of the trouble appointments that was supposed to shake up the div state. uh you know, i think is blocked right now and uh, i don't think it but tens uh much positive here. uh, as i said, they may try to begin negotiations of some kind, but that will be to justify. uh, uh, further uh, armed shipments to say, well, we gotta negotiate from a position to strength. clear. so we gotta really post the ukraine, but you know, you can send all the weapons, you want the, but if

a ukraine is losing reserves in the, you know, the quality of, of the new recruits is such a, it's not going to make much difference if they sign the more weapons and with scott also in the same kind of media particularly bloomberg seems to have a corner on the market right now. there was mention of, but of course the carrots and sticks will be needed. i think we've had enough sticks with this. that's why we need to resolve this complex. again, you know this, this is a, it's like a self licking ice cream cone. you, this is, it's all hermetically, close there. and plus, there was no communication with the russian federation at all. i mean, how can use that even think about negotiations? let's go back to the premises that you uh, discussed with your other guess of united states and data or not looking for a piece. the current policy of the united states is to see the strategic defeat of russia using the ukranian proxy conflict is the principal tool of the stabilisation

. that is the official policies united states and nato. so everything that's being done right now is not designed to be in opposition to the policy, but you recognize the difficulties of the current situation and try to mitigate that gets to feed by creating contain. but what we're looking at right now with all these talks about peace is not about normalize relations. creating good relations is about containing russia about trying to limit the scope and scale of the russian victory to keep it temporary in nature until some future day when the russian gauge is not reverse the ukrainians are straight up honest about this. so the trump administration has to understand that any success with russia, because i agree with your, your, your, your guess this is a non starter. i can't speak on behalf of the russian government. indeed, just simply a period of the show is going to vary budget, irritate the f b i,

which is prevent, prohibited me from speaking to you to our duty to anybody in the russian government . but i don't care if he, but the fact is, we're not about normalize relations. we are about containing russia. and if we don't start off the truck, the administration started off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by ceasing this attack on russia, but by openly say that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia. because that's the, that's the, that there is a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia, russian will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy, who's trying to defend you? what you need to do, therefore, it is the feet, the enemy, which is what russian is doing on the battlefield. a new, great, david, the way the units being reported that you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration. which of course is trying to make the situation as worse as

possible. and that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that because the, the, or outside of a few programs like this and a judge nap where scott appears quite often. people do know that history means one to but we're not going to do number 3, that's not an on the cards. go ahead, dave, as well means great was the assemble agreement. you know russia committed there and drop there and ask for it's for a pre were you created territory? no, they're not for a structure like we would have a next the, the dog boss people through complex. but that still would have left 93 percent of the periods, internationally recognized your authority for any control. so they had a tremendous opportunity to have a win win piece agreement back in march 2012, 22. and the final step horse drawn to the retail it. so it says, i don't think divided restoration is interested in these they're,

they're trying to rash up the world present. uh, you know, the truck with uh, with a hard to sabotage. is there a sincere attempts to end the war? i think trunk will be successful in uh, you know, 14 a ceasefire that ends ends. the warranty crane. i'm a little bit more skeptical that he'll be willing to immediately entertain piece terms that are, you know, a long term piece terms that are acceptable to russia. yeah, but i make this appointment in general, go on to the problem or the but the problem with that is i'll go, i'll go back to jack in san francisco, is it a ceasefire? isn't the solution here that doesn't solve the security problems that the, the european cotton in faces right now, a ceasefire, a truce? it's not going to work for the reasons, but it's got just a numerated. go ahead jack before we go to the break. yeah, i don't think they even minuses fire i, i think they want another formula for continuing a conflict. maybe at a, at a lower intensity here in the us. uh, you know,

the neo cons don't leave. they have to be asked to be driven out the there's no solution to this through a negotiation in a compromise and ok, it's all over. let's go home. no, they'll stay or no fight in some way. and that's what they're searching for. right now they're searching for some new a new arrangement where the, the war can be continued under the. yeah. but that, that would mean not going right back to the beginning of the program with scott that would mean escalation. well gentlemen, we don't have much further to go before you're at the ultimate escalation, jack. i mean, 10 seconds before we go to the break deck. yeah, well, uh, i don't think they want the further escalation, unless they can. uh, you know, more uh russia into using tactical moods. i think that's what the price i, i think they have, they've taken care of that. what weapon care category. and we'll get to talk about

that in the next part of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato and ukraine, staying with our team. the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really once a better wills. and is it just because it shows you few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the developing wall claim to ruin the lines of tens of thousands. but it was the hague tribunal,

with delta of finishing flow to the subs. less on the expand on. yeah, it was that i will talk to you more all of that will cause of the carrier. i mean them or is that the rest of your stuff or some which in the funded any last minute i'm guessing means okay. up on these. you betcha so mutual block the rest of the because of the throwing any quicker, so tired out table. i'll caution built around what sort of on teams so so the, so the evictions or for something to bit jamie stuff. as i've done this for the bus, they have to go into just us as i so the so now click on the nice to promo that i was also i noticed with some of the the welcome back to across stock. were all things are considered on peter roosevelt

you mind you were discussing nato n ukraine. the . let's go back to scott in washington, you know, for all the talk of, of negotiations and getting a team together. and that point person on all that, scott, at the end of the day, this is going to be dealt with on the battlefields isn't. so that's the only because of the, the type of people that are being um, involved in this here. i mean, what that mean? kelly's, what mean? he and he's been doing this for like 70 years or something. i mean people don't change. okay. and that's why it's good to be settled on the battlefield. scott, you know, i, i believe that again, i don't pretend to have any insight into russian government thinking i don't speak on behalf of the russian government. that's the little aside for the f b i who's watching this that's just my assessment. after years of studying the

russian government, this russian government, they haven't done what they've done here. they didn't initiate what they called military technical meetings, back in february of 2022, just to throw it all away. people need to understand that russia has committed to a course of action that will only hit this is an extra stipulation for russia. that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians in russian policy. this is an extra central issue in russia is committed the national survival of russia to this conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to throw it away. anything less than a cheating. the outcomes that they have articulated, which is no nato membership, demilitarization of ukraine, the notification of your grade, anything less that is a strategic defeat for russia, therefore, unacceptable to russia, in the less needs to understand that, that in pushing russia to this good, remember this conflict didn't begin in february 22. this conflict began well prior

to 2014, but it, it, it took its current form in 2014, and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think meant one was what do you think vince 2 was? what do you think the rushing the effort to of to insert draft treaties. december of 2021 way. what do you think the 1st negotiation phase post conflict was to get to minutes? 3 in this of all the effort to avoid this very situation. but the west refused to cooperate. the west refused to negotiate in russia now is fully committed, fully committed to achieving the outcome and it's says, must take place for russia to survive. this is an extra central struggle. that's why i think any talk of negotiation, freeze cease. fire is a non starter because it would be russia basically say we lost it versus not losing

their winning on every phase of this conflict, militarily, economically, politically, well, even gave it centrally saying that again. so many people in the west of failed to understand because they're not told, is that this is an x, a central threat for russia. but for nato, this is a choice. this is a craven choice rush. it does not threaten nato security, but nato threatens russia. security david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does. the threatened data security today. they didn't do so before the war. that's why it was created. so is attacking russian territory. that is a threat. is russia attacking nato territory? no it is. it is not the same thing. you can't, they, but you can, you can pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah, you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been the unc fairly demonizes to us, the dresser. uh,

this was not enough for both progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history and you know, cause want a pc spent 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the extra steps will try to pay the $1.00 ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war, russia has a peace terms that were mostly reasonable in it and would create the situation for adjusting last newbies. you know, the real solution is, is um, it's on the negotiating table. uh, you know, we need an us needs to negotiate, uh, kind of, uh, a new and talk with uh, with russian not just the dates on it and taught where the us and russia, because strategic partners to support the peace and stability throughout the world . but especially in europe, and we can do that by reading to uh, you know, have the war on drugs. so russia, pulling back all us troops, 20000 us troops from eastern europe, withdrawing all of our nuclear weapons from,

from europe, wisdom reciprocal, reciprocal concessions on the russian side. and then restoring full diplomatic and traits last week we should have a free trade treaty with, with russia. we should have, you know, totally engagement. we should, we should give them a sphere of influence. and you know, all the former soviet republics except for the baltic states and the mature they can give us your reports in, in western uh, the western hemisphere. but uh, i think uh, the advantages of hope here is the community is a champion apiece. uh president trump is a chair going to be is these pick some, some new cause? some very good want to america 1st in service, but also some neo cons that don't want peace. and i think he's going to get very frustrated with those new context. and he's going to twist their arms and make them agreed, you know, accept the terms that are accept the whole to, to moscow. yeah. well, i had a jack in san francisco. i think they died from day one of the, the,

the deep states or the bureaucratic state, the permanent state. they're going to turn ukraine into donald trump's biggest nightmare. and we already see it happening because jack with the ideas that david just a numerator on rock are good ideas. i couldn't disagree carpet being paid for doing any of them. jack. yeah, well, you know, uh, this is not just the conflict in ukraine. uh, i wrote an article in january 22 before the hot war began entitled 10 reasons why the us, they want russia to invade ukraine. there's a lot to the game for the empire by initiating, continuing this war. you know, before the war us was losing as well as was that made a well, now they've totally, you know, captured, recaptured nato again. and one of the main objectives of the war, i say, was the dr. russia out of western europe economically. and the us to, uh, you know, penetrate into europe and take over the energy reading some of the other industries

. well, the usaa empire has been totally successful. the amount objective. there's other objectives as well involved with before. not just defeating russia on the ground. and that's one reason why i think they're going to continue this conflict in some shape or other even under trump. well, i mean it, it, yeah, i think this is good to be with us all for a very long time. it's interesting, jack, what you said, i mean the united states is very kind to its allies, isn't it? i mean, they destroy its energy infrastructure. it wrap it in place and sag nation, and this is all because you're a member of nato. it's really remarkable. scott: i'll bet you i'm not a really a betting man, but whatever outcome there is, it's good to go back to the diplomatic notes that russia sent to the united states and to nato uh, in december before the february of 2022. because that's the roadmap. and they're going to refer back to it. i bet you anything they're going to do that,

scott. and i think you're a 100 percent correct? uh, the, the, you know, at the time rushes submitted these draft treaties to nato, into the united states. so they were marked in the western circles is unrealistic of what is russia think they're doing because the perception was the rush was operate from a position of weakness today. i don't think anybody's thinks the rush is operating from a position of weak this. had these draft documents suddenly become an extraordinarily well thought out pieces of diplomacy that could create a european security framework that could engender the kind of stability that was spoken of that has a western sphere of f. once a russians fear of life, importance, and not a of, in, in the 2 sides, not being in conflict, but here's the problem. nato does. the rush is a threat in rush. it is

a threat that because russia threatened the state of but because nato has defined its very existence as being predicated on a need to confront russia next, essentially. therefore, the failure to defeat russia has led to a situation where data is in danger of collapsing. you know, you speak of the united states coming in and disrupting of the european economy to take it over. good. congratulations, america you did. did the united states predict the rise of a alternative for doing sled in the fact that if it lands and it's heavy, not a trajectory of victory? jeremy withdrawal from the you, which means jeremy with drugs of data, that's not what the united states wanted, that they predict the parliamentary outcome in france. now that protest tried to avoid, but he kept his government the government's collapsing now of. busy peace, the sympathetic russian parliament might come in the united states and predict that europe is devolving, collapsing re defining itself. and so that's the only reason why these russian

draft, these may not be viable anymore, because if they were drafted with a strong unified, you're in mind, i don't think that you're a big exist anymore, and i don't think it's going to exist. so there's going to have to be of russia in the united states for to this out. i think europe is based on the 5 itself. i absolutely agree here. you know, it's interesting, scott, the, you know, they, they, they, they, you had all the variables, the sanctions and the oil embargo, all they had, all of these things figured out except for o. democracy. they didn't take that into account and now it's coming. a blow black, i'm blowing back at them, david, you know, where is mac and all of this? i'm really quite bewildered. okay. the trump ran on this very openly. okay. i don't think anybody to agree or i'll solve within 24 hours. okay. that, that was campaign high per billy. but you know where he is maggie. in this for him

policy. i'm getting a little worried. go ahead in salt lake city as well. trip isn't it? is made a few really good goods. you know, uh, tulsa gab or guys and some other folks like that. then i think you're going to give them some good advice. and most notably, journeyman, i mean, judy vance is a very vocal opponent of the war. and ukraine is. he was wanting to ended yesterday, and he's, he's going to be a visual and drugs here and telling them to, you know, to be, to all kill lots ridiculous, you know, con proposals for, for a ceasefire. peace with russia. so, you know, my opinion should have sent ged vans to be that special ed boy to negotiate the, the russia ukraine disagreement. and by the way, this, this needs to be a us rush or a piece for you pray and does not need to be involved. us represents the praise interest and zaleski is out a lot, any piece piece, uh, negotiations with the russian federation. so he is proven to be uh, you know,

not to rely on margaret per piece of trump is, is, or israel. i am a part of a visa. fine, of course has a joke. uh, he spent 10 minutes in the last 3 years talking about new credit and basically is reading out opposition or opposition to russia's invasion, which was essentially kind of a pre emptive invasion to roll back. and, you know, went through expansion, and can you create and restore your brand to it's a peaceful buffer state neutral buffer state status pre made onto. so i still hopeful, but the more i've heard about the catalog plan, the more discouraged i am in terms of an immediate solution. well, as i resume, as i said in my and at the end of my introduction, the slaughter continues. gentlemen, i really appreciated very thoughtful program and that's all the time we have one, i think my guess in washington, dc, salt lake city and in san francisco. and of course i want to thank our viewers for

watching us here are see, see, next time. and remember across the, the, the russian states never as tight as i'm sort of the most sense community invest in most all sense and up the, in the 6595 and speed you what else calls question about this. even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin, the machine, the state on the russians to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the fitness center question, did you say a request, which is the

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