ability, as well as security for all in the meantime, this locked into the time option or 10. seeing welcome back to going underground will go single, around the world from a middle east where nato proxy forces, in concert with israel and al qaeda trying to invent the government's not having the in palestine, but in lebanon. and now syria, this is nato. finally, j simon and defeat and its proxy war on russia through ukraine. all these issues and from the british who's writing the genocide in gaza to nathan nation attempts to destroy everything from venezuela in this a hell and southeast asia. a given the propaganda treatment into tyler terry and so called western newspapers, tv, cinema and literature. but there are some who have expose the lies in the rackets

a rogue report versus the american empire co founder of declassified u. k. mac cannot delineate something of the systematic corrosion well, few ma'am. as a by imperial forces, no wonder it comes endorsed by long term friends of going underground. joan pills, you know i'm john ski and julian hassan dramatic joins me now from london. now thanks so much for coming on. uh, i wanna book, uh the, the rackets is, uh, it's been a week where even major propaganda media like comcast sky news, warner brothers is cnn learned mouthpiece is like your or our v. c. i found it difficult to explain to their audiences, i think how it is that they support l guy to in syria. how does your book, the racket give us the dimension in which to understand why the bbc and john simpson people are on the well? well know these people, actually, no 1 may know what cnn is given by their viewing figures. but why the media are,

is completely up to they, they want to support those links to the atrocities and $911.00. still what is interesting, isn't it? i think it goes to the halls, the message of the book, which is that the mainstream media is not what we told is not what. ringback what were you dining? john is a school that we are a check on power, the journalism, the constructs the lives of the state and corporations when you get inside it. and i work for the financial times and for most of the reporting was done. what i was at the financial times, you realize the actually, the mainstream media is really an adjunct to stay power. often they do do some good stories of sort scandals and that kind of thing. but in terms of systematic analysis, a systematic, the construction of the propaganda, you're getting none of it. and that's why this is such a beautiful system in a way because it does allow some freedom within those confines of the main stream media. but really, it protects power at all times and just to go to

a point about what's happening in syria. so of course, outside the now which is re branded as h t, as in syria in syria, is useful to us now because we have been trying to, over through the us government for over 10 years. so those people as soon as they, as soon as they become useful to us, we have we, we rehabilitate them, and propagandized for them. in fact, there was an article today that they kind of grew up. we said some utilize of how the progress, the front of each ahead is. so going to build a new syria, that kind of line something that you people, diversity on behalf of those that have been historically chopping the heads of children. exactly. i'm, i'm imagining, he told someone that you know, the type of 2001 in america. the $23.00 is made. so we're going to have mainstream media as the talk about alti does as a good thing, and about how they can bring

a new syria. after a decade of war, it is, is preposterous, but it is not, but it's not just syria, it goes against everything. every systematic mode of exploitation is practiced by the west is justified, is legitimized by the mainstream media. not since published this whole heaps of ideology, which were afraid from a very young age, which is effectively who lies. and we don't have a media which takes it apart. we have a media which regards to types it, so we live swimming and propaganda and it needs to change. i do think it is changing now. i think is that to be different from even the time i was working at the financial times, which was a 2009 to 2012, that was the mainstream media had more of a hold on the narrative than they do now. because social media has allowed us to bypass the mainstream media, and that is why there's such a tax on social media, but also why this whole industry is brought to the about this information,

which again is a junk state. how often if you look at these organizations, the funding so who this information they often funded by the foreigner base or the state department. and they, what they are about is to try and get some eyes new voices, the work outside the mainstream, and reveal need truths that you can't get into the mainstream. says that there's always ways of how we want to protect itself in new circumstances. yeah, we have the hallmark to thank for knowing the brand american watch, whole good will planes. we used to protect al qaeda in effect this week despite denials. of course he alone must. we might get into that late ser, cuz he relates to bolivia, renewal book, lithium. uh, quite important for his cause he mentioned jones is just that you went to the prestigious columbia journalism school in the book. you say they went through all of the records and it's lies and questioning things. maybe you out to some of the n

t american. just tell me about the columbia journalism school, which, you know, some people in the academy might know the way to public the i've never heard of these places. the. yes it's, the school is basically the most elite. john is a school in the world, and it creates an educate stubs of next generation of to corporate journalists in the states also worldwide. and i didn't really know that before i went that nicely went to leads university in the u. k. so normally do university by go good story when i was there, which got me into columbia by city. but i was extremely disappointed by the, the culture and the level of journalism that was being to practice the just one example is a henry kissinger who died recently. but is one of the most blood sites will criminals of the 20th century. he came to columbia university when i was there, and i found that he comes, came every year and that's kind of speaking, pontificate about the politics and blah, blah, blah. and he was accepted as

a sort of a kind of a warm cuddly statesman. and i was in the room way of winning a speaking, and i put my hand up and i just said, how do you sleep? and i and the whole room just like you to go in order to goest and then everything is silent. and he said, do you think you are more you superior to me? and that's an easy question to also when is henry kissinger awesome. you said yes. and he said, and then he went okay, there was a bit of back and forth. he was like, well, the, the stuff you brady, who lives, blah, blah, blah, but interesting the off that i was attacked massively by the faculty itself. one of the they took us history about here that will criminals lack exactly like the what i did was disgraceful. and one came up to me often and said you disgraced yourself the other day. i go by saying 0 support, but that is very telling about what columbia university's role it's, it's to whitewash and to support essentially american war criminals and make the

actions seeing part of what we've told is a little while ago during a little bit of law and blah blah blah. so the night with all normal exceptions, jeffrey sachs, i know victoria newland and hillary clinton in there at the moment. no jeffrey sites, it's amazing that he's going to journalism school. the i'm focused is to get out of jobs is what is those are great academic throughout colombia, and also there are few in columbia that few and far between. i knew some ways they also add on and generate the illusion. that is, there is a free culture that that's a critical power because there's kind of a sickly, so they say, oh, we go x x professor. but on a general level is just uh, uh, it's, uh, it's what you would expect to do. it took you about the most elite school in, in journalism, in america, it's just producing the next, ideologically trained propagandist for the american empire centrally. and then the same happened when i went to financial as long as you realize, okay, well, i've got hold of things. i need to learn to enter the mainstream media, but luckily i had the japanese newspaper that told you,

go away and do your save the world stuff. when you left, i was asked you the editor, the etc. and that was a line on the. yes, he said uh, i mean he was is a nice enough guy. uh, but he said uh, i wasn't an s t. jon is go in the say blood stuff, if you can come back when you're a bit older. but what it actually, that'd be nice to get to this week's events that given you a threatened me personally, i should say, i am proud to say, i mean, am i 6 as far as we know, he's actively supporting what's going on. and i don't know whether you know most to is a, because we can see on social media the, the outside to read balance, whether that's shamed. what's your bring? can state department just say, look, we don't, we don't doing this. and jake sullivan displayed having previously said outside is on that side and through the kind of distance weaknesses with the same time on the hand. having to do it under how does that? because it must be a hard sell even to those young listeners desk to say, yeah,

we're on the side of the outside an isis. yeah. yeah. is an obviously, um, they want to do it on the hand. i mean start as being quite a lot of i think stories of come out in israel saying israel prefers to have a set in place rather than the on no, no outside or somebody's name is government, which i think is just a began to pull out by by these really is to try and monday the was when it's very, very clear, the israel, the united states allies have been trying to break the excess of resistance for that for over a decade. and syria is a key part of the supply line from iran says blog. and also will this happen soon after that c, 5 deal was was low. and so i think will these things are connected. and what they want to do is a for the service team, and i don't care who they use. that's the point. so they, well, obviously they wanted to come by the, because the pump for about this,

the reasons why you say, but even then they don't, they don't catch you much. like i said, but also in the daily telegraph and you're going to see more more about that. people have short memories and people are very, very susceptible. it's perfect kind of look at ideas, rerun some they were previously outside of they've now they, they went like they start wearing suits. they said all where we went about diversity. we work outside and out. um and people buy it for me. yeah. and she has this, we go hungry about a cooper should have a christmas tree being taken down because of course they want to kill the questions as starkly. i mean, i don't think they get over there though that the you a president phoned as that on the day to give support the saudi arabia are friends with iran to this region has changed. what do you think about organizations that are being pro palestine? looking, looking at the genocide, you can see the guitar a news channel allowed to 0. where was the 1st ever english language of boy?

interesting how they're embedded. it seems without guide as well. so was allegedly one of the main fund, the news, right, as well, which is what pays it pre gusts, ideas that came out during the time. i think it's ours, go up quite a for the record of support and extremist across the region to be in the syrian civil war. and so, i mean, i think that i actually don't know about the position of the u, i. e, in the saudis as well. i think that essentially they want to break your on the tax has certainly not there. certainly not that position. and of course we are here of course it historically. in fact, that's really what i'm coming to about the, i presume they haven't just read your book and realized that history has changed. but i mean, as you do any of the i, m, f and world bank destructive policies. people increasingly, you know, going to one these loans are they, these countries? i mean, you can see molly and set a goal and you can see what's happening in the southeast asia. i mean,

i'm not saying is just your books clearly, but the world has changed, doesn't that? i mean, obviously ukraine has made that change up to the sanctions on russia and the sanctions on joining the do you see you changing now? yeah, there's been a massive shift to the east, essentially, and it's mainly around china to be honest with you because even russia is not in terms of use economy on the same scale, was trying to so trying as rise and let's say in my 1015 years it could be the biggest economy in the well, um, regardless of what you think about the chinese government. uh, the space that opens up for uh, independent governments in africa and latin america, asia to operate is huge because of the end of the cold war. there was only one game in town, which was the us, you know, and it was a pretty big time, the less than independent movements. get this out, the faces and 99 for mexico with that. and then it changed a bit when travis came in in 1999 in venezuela. but essentially if you were trying

to escape these institutions or the, i'm ask them well back, which are fit to be on the united states. that was, there wasn't any other po to organize around the next change now. and you see the brakes uh, buying can and also some of the 2 things happening that i kind of, i get back into it. i'll stop you there more from the all of the racket, a real group, both of us as the american empire and co founder declassified u. k. after this break the, [000:00:00;00] the, the mount fields, the steps,

the wild side goss. i'm one of the world's most epics rivers, when cost you a region is so beautiful that the people here believe that it was bestowed upon the fight golf himself. so let's get off this mountain and explore. the violence has to offer the welcome back to going on the go ahead. i'm still here with the author of the rock is a rogue report of us as the american amber and co founder of declassified. you came, i cannot math in part one, you were talking about this new world order as it were, as regards of new ways to, to have a economies in the global south. but this is happening at the same time, the rise of china, which is already the biggest economy by a, by b, b, b. as the genocide is happening, that you're in london. i mean, how hard is it for them to comprehend these journalists, the british public?

what the government is doing and you might have to remind us, what exactly is the british role in the genocide that you've been? i know tweeting and writing about the intimate relationship between this a k as kyle and the government and genocide, making him able criminal. yeah, well essentially, i think that's the top line, but we are not just complicit in the genocide in gaza with participants and have been from the start actually. but in terms of what impact that's had on the public, the public don't know because it goes back to your original question about the media. the media has left out all the information that people would need to understand all role in front of the classified. we've done pretty much all the work on the u. k. military intelligence role, which is extreme. uh, i would say that this is a tripod type genocide. this is a u. k. us and israel us is providing most of the arms. you guys providing must be

intelligence and his role is getting it done. and in terms of how that works on the ground, there's one story came on the new york times in the summer. the, the e k. a intelligent services had deployed a spite team inside israel to help this route with this operation and gaza. so that came out of new it sounds as neat spine is ready. officially these ready officials said that the guy spies were giving quote, value added to his ready operations and they were quote, providing intelligence we call and collect and all right, so this is huge in the context of the fact that as icy see restaurants out for the prime minister in the form of defense minister, the fact that as a genocide case at the i c j, the was high school ongoing need and these and he's ready. officials a leaking that the british have a being providing stuff with a conflict, and that right, you would think that might interest the media. that story is never being mentioned in the u. k. media, the other, the other side of it, there's never thoughts about is the we all the you k is sending a spice right. oh,

because up everyday, pretty much and sometimes to the, now they're in the sky for 6 hours. and they, the, that intelligence has been been paused to these res, now the u. k. say, well, it's just the hostage rescue. but we've only got one hostage in gaza and we had to win the had started. one of them is killed. it looks like bodies, ready, some selves. so what is that information? why is it going and what, what, what does it involve? because my hunch is that it probably is being used for operations by this route because it, i think it semantic, web light. because if you says i need to do with hostage rescue while these rallies present the whole offensive, because uh, as hostage rescue operations. so it gives them leeway to, to do whatever they want. again, there was a question in parliament, actually, all spotted democrats here recently. but he said he also ministry defense, can you tell me the information we providing to the israel is not being used for

military targeting, and they refused to watch so, so, so there's a box that's the, that's highly suspicious. the other side of is a special forces, you know, special forces, people don't know a highly secretive, almost the u. k. state. if they're even more 6, tiffany intelligence agencies, you can get spice of easier information about what they, what they're out to. that'd be fine. 7 close up was around it. well, the guy special policy is coming on as ss on october 27th last year. so soon off the start, the genocide, the sunday's paper. they will lead to that the essay as a boy to all based on cyprus, full does the operations. and then the following day to that all to 28, you came into terry, sent out the notice to every media. it is the saying, don't publish any information about what the ss is up to in israel and gaza, assumes that day. we've not had any information about what the special forces a day, which is as again in the context of what thoughts about these legal process is ongoing. we could be directly involved on the grounding,

cause i don't know if something was going on the ground used to ignore the d notices where we were in britain. maybe that's why we're in do bonnie but to kareem khan has been on this show and see for us to gauge your of the international vocation, go to international criminal court. and he's certainly not looking into your allegations. people can follow you on x, of course, because you reproduce the maps during the flights. uh, web britain, i mean i'm, this is hundreds of thousands, mostly women and children minded with the aid of the roy levels. yeah. the disgrace in the name of the the r s, but it does. but people are surprised. i have to say when, when they, when they are made aware of what is going on, it completely appends the whole world because we're seeing on our phones. so the worst stuff we've ever seen, a large, maybe the west stuff, you know, my salvation campaigns of forming of civilians, relentless every day kids and will need to make the kids, the new modem,

conflicts of kids with that, with no legs. the legs spun off, almost blown off, is horrendous. and then you know that we're not only just giving them diplomatic support, sending them moms, we're supplying intelligence for them to get this operation done. and people are shocked by that, which i think is why the mainstream media is so uh, it is sold by the company because again, they protect, protect power. and when have a, a ro is mentioned is who is mentioned in a kind of benign uh, basically taking the official line and the for so long as we have nothing to do with what's going on in the ground. we only up for about helping use right. is to, to, to rescue all hostage which is rubbish. i think so. yeah. is this hernandez, i think the environment is, i mean, and people are watching uh, these mouthpiece media like bbc less and less. what's the like in, in britain then i mean that my 6 is the who are friends with zekia storm or who persecuted julie. in a sense, we both interviewed jeremy colbin in the new environment where people aren't

anymore persuaded by the propaganda media system. their way could they do what they did to? jeremy corbin, the most popular uh i mean, socialist kind of lead to well positioned leader in the west and your babies fake anti semitism, says could they ever do it again? or are they that was deep state active and that is your understanding. it was the deep state that you know, that people can look online to see the british soldiers using pictures of cove and his target practice and that kind of stuff. yeah, i mean that again, it a to go back to what i said about the media and the free press and the illusion around that is the same with democracy. we don't have a democracy in this country. we have an oligarchy, and that stopped working with during the cold and was elected in 2015. and as you said, the labor party swelled to the biggest pots in western europe, and he was destroyed by a campaign around that symbolism. but also there was many, many elements of the british state, the, uh, the one in destroyed arms companies,

u. k. military intelligence agencies, the israel lobby that you got together. and actually the, the, the reason that the anti semitism campaign came to kind of central campaign was, but it was much better than the other ones. the left were very bad at defending themselves. colbin himself was by the defending himself. um so that he was a traitor. out, he was a traitor. uh give me but the. okay. more important and goldman. what about you? because you are covering these stories about the so called the states. i'm a cool at the state of a genocidal country like breaking what. how, how safe are you? we know reports of kick plan bug, the great journalist for the great zone being stopped, and he threw up with sarah wilkinson, the pro palestinian peace. activist and journalist i understand, has been visited by police, richard med host. i mean, i do feel safe that am i. the 5 will knock on your door and special branch one, knock on your door any time soon as you show the flights of british war planes

aiding the genocide in gaza. what are there any one sites that speaking out in the u. k. now, cuz it's not just the the journalist you mentioned just recently. um a so when stanley, he's a very good reporter for electronic and funny. yeah. this house rated by the place i don't and they sees the oldest devices, but what was quite scary about what happened to him was he wasn't even charged or arrested. so probably in the u. k. under there was and was i can come in the place and take, we'll devices without even charging you with the crime which is for outrages. and then you had sarah wilkinson, as you mentioned in richard my task. and that basically clumping down on democracy because they've lost control of the narrative as even as you mentioned, the side of the power social media independent media has as growing massively. and it helps to move the conversation away from the state narrative. now in the context of when you lose control of the narrative for your traditional media assets and you lose control of the population, i,

a majority on an honest and ball going to cease. while the only thing you have left is to disappear in the population with the lot, i don't think we're going to see increasing amounts of oppression and it has to be picked up. must have been on the case donna. but those that the journalist i mentioned they will arrested or detained, they'll rated on the case by my so i think we're going to see that escalate. in terms of me personally, i think the on, i'm no different to the rest of the independent media space. wherever you expect to all know that there is, there are wrist that come to a new the are i'm president to and the other thing is we know that the public sphere in the u. k is undefended. so it will the janice, i mentioned sir wilkinson richard. my test is the when standing not to be struck, there recently, overrated. arrested charged. and no single word has ever paid about in the mainstream media. so it's just the a part of the news, the it's just completely a raised from mass media. i mean it took me to gabriel scare. i think for me that

was more scary than the rights themselves. yeah, that's that silence to give us promise. i'm sympathy. i mean, i was on bbc question time with them a while back. i don't have much sympathy that we can look up how it is kind of prosecution service tried to pin fake rape claims on julian assigned. you write about this 10000 perhaps us soldiers in britain. i mean the hostages here, the british government is britain like south korea are actually which is being in the news this week. a, a under military occupation. i. i know that talking about drones, anything already have lake and the heat that are available from the drones, which so we so little joining the circled wear and tear. is it, do you feel like that? yeah, we are. and again, it is completely sizes by the mainstream media, but i did a lot of work about the u. k. military presence in the u. k. and it's over 12000 us troops permanently stationed in the u. k. across the 11. so who are a sites that code or yes,

but at least to the americans an upright expect to be is us spaces and they fly. also submissions often a legal ones. um, web like what kinds of carried out they were involved in, in operations in libya, iraq, other places. and we're not allowed to know anything that happens on the that's the outraged wall policy of the patient itself. but that's, she's the outrages you can get some information about already upsize what you can give it to use. if you ask through transparency mechanisms about the us print military presence, you just told we don't comment on allies movements or activities in our country, which is a huge black hole in america, in burgess democracy and that. and then the other side of that is and also is another method by co is, is the us intelligence role. because we know that there's a massive c, i a side risk routes in which was the base where outside of which, how redone was killed by a c i a of this uh, so cooler, so we've been screwed throughout the country. um we know the g. c,

h give you just use the because largest instead of just i can see it has a huge station in coma who just keep viewed. it's not as leak showed the hot, 50 percent of the funding for jesus to jesus. he viewed comes from the national security agency in the united states, so that basically running the station and that's how it works. us just we all us are by some state and we do what we told we are, i'm, we're, i'm where we know a lot. now government does not allow us to know anything about that. us like tablets. activity i know is the transparency should be much higher before admitted to reason for any intelligence agencies in our country. we should know more about we should be able to know more about them then. all right, well, base the opposite now cannot. thank you. that's it for the show match book. the rack is a real group. all of us are the american and buyers out now continued condolences to those surviving the u. k. u s. u, i'm genocide here in this region will be back on monday for more on the scale of

that genocide which could be as high as 25 percent of guys are killed until then keep in touch, why will that social media result sense of new country and that to a channel going under warranty, the hon, dot com to action, you know, the episodes, i'm going on the ground. so you monday, the plato says the line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine, but instead be focused on sending more weapons to the queue. again, the alliance demonstrates they can never entertain plans for peace instability, as well as security for all in the meantime, just want to continue the toilet. some remodeling feet suddenly less probably more in the former. she's each school when the customer will just didn't. i didn't know it sits on the for supposed to do it,

but still on the ocean where y'all are still well that you think your sewage, the right, they're going to deduct months. you move in years. the $170.00 is that, of course, come on, look at that to me until there's a date or the newsletter. i'll thank you for doing this. do you believe the united states and russia are at war with each other right now? i wouldn't say so in the in any case, this is not what we want. we would like to have normal relations was, although with neighbors, of course, but generally, these old countries, so not especially was the great country like the united states. president bush and