going underground, joan pills, you know, i'm john ski and julian hassan dramatic joins me now from london. and i thank so much for coming on. i'm going to book uh the, the rackets is, it's been a week where even major propaganda media like comcast sky news, whenever others is cnn learned mouthpiece is like your or our v. c. i found it difficult to explain to their audiences. i think how it is that they support the l guy the in syria. how does your book, the racket give us the dimension in which to understand why the bbc and john simpson people are on the well, what know these people actually? no 1 may know what cnn is given by their viewing figures, but why the media are is completely up to they. they want to support those links to the atrocities and $911.00. it's yeah. what is interesting, isn't it? i think it goes to the hall, the message of the book, which is that the mainstream media is not what we're told is not what uh,

what we dining. john is in school that we are check on power, the journalism, uh the constructs the lies of the state and corporations when you get inside it and i work for the financial times, it's of most of the reporting was done. was that the financial times you realize that actually the mainstream media is really an adjunct to state power? often they do do some good stories of scandals and that kind of thing. but in terms of systematic analysis, a systematic, the construction of the propaganda, you get none of it. and that's why this is such a beautiful system in a way because it does allow some freedom within those confines of the mainstream media. but really it protects how old times and just just to go to a point about what's happening in syria. so of course, outside of now, which is re branded as h t, as in syria in syria, is useful to us now because we have been trying to, over through the us government for over 10 years. so those people as soon as they,

as soon as they become useful to us, we have we, we rehabilitate them, and propagandized for them. in fact, there was an article today that they tend to grow. we said sub utilize of how to bypass the front of the just had is still going to build a new syria, that kind of line something that you people, diversity on behalf of those that have been historically chopping the heads of children. exactly. i'm imagining. think, tell someone that, you know, type of 2001 in america. the $23.00 is made. so we're going to have mainstream media. i actually talk about all kinds does as a good thing and about how they can bring a new syria. um, after a decade of war, it is, is preposterous, but it is not, but it's not just syria, it goes against everything. every systematic mode of exploitation is practiced by the west is justified,

is legitimized by the mainstream media. not since published this whole heaps of ideology which were fight from a very young age, which the effectively old lies. and we don't have a media which takes it apart. we have a media which regards to types it. so we live swimming and propaganda and it needs to change. i do think it is changing now. i think is that it's any different from even the time i was working at the financial times, which was a 2009 since 2012, that was the mainstream media had more of a hold on the narrative than they do now. because social media has allowed us to bypass the mainstream media and that is why it is such a tax on social media. but also why this whole industry is brought it up about this information. which again is a junk state. how often if you look at these organizations, the funding, so who this information they often funded by the far enough, based on the state department. and they, what they are about is to try and be legitimize new voices the work outside the

mainstream, and reveal new truths that you can't get into the mainstream. so that there's always ways that powell with what to protect itself in new circumstances. yeah, we have enormous. good, thank for knowing the brand, american rewards, whole good will planes we use to protect. i will guide you in effect this week despite denials. of course, he alone must. we might get into that later because he relates to bolivia, renewal book, lithium uh, quite important for his cause. he mentioned germans as a just that you went to the prestigious columbia journalism school in, in the book. you say they went through all to the racket and it's lies and questioning things. maybe you out to some of the n t, a metric. to tell me about the columbia journalism school, which, you know, some people in the academy might know the way to public the i've never heard of these places. the. yes it's, the school is basically the most a lead. john is a school in the world. it creates an educate stubs of next generation of top

corporate journalists in the states also worldwide. and i didn't really know that before i went that nicely went to leads university in the u. k. so normally, university by go good story. when i was there, which got me into columbia by city, but i was extremely disappointed by the, the culture and the level of journalism that was being to practice that of just one example is a henry kissinger who died recently. but is one of the most blood sites will criminals of the 20th century. he came to columbia university when i was there, and i found that he comes, came every year. so that's the kind of speak can participate about the politics and blah, blah, blah. and he was accepted as a sub, a kind of a warm cuddly statesman. and i was in the room way of winning a speaking. and i put my hand up and i just said, how do you sleep at night? and the whole room, just like you to go in order to goest and then everything inside him. and he said,

do you think you a maurice superior to me? and that's an easy question to also when is henry kissinger you're asking you. so i said yes. and he said, and then he went okay, there was a bit of back and forth. he was like, well the, the stuff you but is who lives blah, blah blah. but interesting, the often that i was attacked massively by the faculty itself. one of the they took us history mostly that will cover those left. exactly. i don't know what i did was disgraceful, and one came up to me often and said you disgraced yourself the other day. i go by saying 0 support, but that is very telling about what columbia university's role it's, it's to whitewash and to support essentially american war criminals and make the actions seeing what we've told is a liberal world older and a little bit lower and blah, blah, blah, so the, with all normal exceptions, jeffrey sachs, i know victoria newland and hillary clinton in there at the moment. no, jeffrey sites is amazing, but he's not in the john isn't school. i'm talking specifically about it. does this?

what is most of the great academic columbia and also there are few in columbia that few and far between. i knew some ways they also add on and generate the illusion that he's there is a free culture that that's a critical power because there's kind of a sickly. so they say, oh, the x x professor. well i'm on the gym level is just, uh it's uh it's what you would expect to do. it took you about the most elite school in, in journalism, in america. it's just producing the next, ideologically trained, propagandist for the american and virus centrally. and then the same happened when i went to the financial as long as you realize, okay, well, i've got hold of things i need to learn to enter the mainstream media. but luckily i heard about this as the japanese newspaper that told you, go away and do your save the world stuff. when you left, i was actually the editor, the etc. um, that was uh vinyl. the. yes, he said uh, i mean he was is a nice enough guy. uh, but he said uh,

i wasn't an s t. jon is go in the say blood stuff and maybe he can come back when you're a bit older. i'm the one and actually that'd be nice to get to this week's events that given you a threatened me personally, i should say, i am proud to say, i mean, am i 6 as far as we know, he's actively supporting what's going on. and i don't know whether you know, most with it, because we can see on social media the, the outside to read violence, whether that's shamed. what's your bring? can state department just say, look, we don't, we don't doing this and jake sullivan despite having previously said outside is on that side and through the kind of distance weaknesses with the same time on the hand, having to do it under how does that? because it must be a hard sell even to those journalists, news desk to say, yeah, we're on the side of the outside and isis. yeah. yeah. is an obviously, um, they want to do it on the hand. let me start this, be quite a lot of i think stories of come out in the eighty's route saying israel prefers to

have a set in place rather than the on no, no outside or somebody's name is government, which i think it's just a began to pull out by, by these really is to try and monday the was when it's very, very clear, the israel, the united states allies have been trying to break the excess of resistance for that for over a decade. and syria is a key part of the supply line from iran says blog. and also will this happen soon after that ceased by the it was, was low. and so i think will these things are connected. and what they want to do is a for the service team, and i don't care who they use. that's the point. so they, well obviously they wanted to come by the, because of up to about this, the reasons why you say, but even then they don't, they don't catch you much. like i said, but also in the daily telegraph and you're going to see more more about that. people have short memories and people are very, very susceptible. it's perfect. kinda look at h t s as rerun some they were previously outside of they've now they,

they went to the big start were in suits. they said all where we went about diversity. we worked outside and out. um, and people buy it from. yeah. and she has this, we go hungry about a cooper should have a christmas tree being taken down because of course they want to kill. the christians is starkly. i mean, i don't think they get over there though that the you a president phoned as that on the day to give support the saudi arabia are a friends with a ron. this region has changed. what do you think about organizations that are being pro palestine? looking, looking at the genocide, you can see the guitar a news channel allowed to 0. where was the 1st ever english language? and boy, interesting how they're embedded. it seems without guide as well, cuz all was allegedly one of the main funds of news, right? as well, which is what pays it pre gusts to ideas that came out during that time. and kids are as, go uh, quite

a be record of support and extreme is across the region to gain the syrian civil war. and so, i mean, i think that i actually don't know about the position of the u, i. e, in the saudis as well. i think that essentially they want to break your on the tax . i've certainly not there certainly not that position. and of course we are here. of course it is starkly. in fact, that's really what i'm coming to about the, i presume they haven't just read your book and realized that history has changed. but i mean, as you, delaney, i, b, i m, f and world bank, destructive policies. people increasingly, you know, going to one these loans are they, these countries? i mean, you can see molly and set a goal and you can see what's happening in the southeast asia. i mean, i'm not saying is just your books clearly, but the world has changed, doesn't that? i mean, obviously ukraine has made that change up to the sanctions on russia and the sanctions on joining the dc and changing now or. yeah, there's been a massive shift to the east, essentially,

and it's mainly around china to be honest with you, because even russia is not in terms of this economy on the same scale was trying to . so trying this rise and let's say in my 1015 years it could be the biggest economy in the well, um, regardless of what you think about the chinese government, uh, the space that opens up full uh, independent governments in africa and latin america, asia to operate is huge because off to the end of the cold war, there was only one game in town, which was the us, you know, and it was a pretty big time, the less than independent movements. get this out, the taste as a 99 for mexico, but and then it changed a bit when travis came in in 1999 in venezuela. but essentially, if you were trying to escape these institutions or the, i'm ask them well back, which are fit to be arms of the united states. that was there wasn't any of the po, to organize around the next change now. and you see the brakes uh, buying can and, and also some of the 2 things happening that i kind of,

i get back into it. i'll stop you there more from the all of the racket, a real group, both of us as the american empire and co founder declassified you chaos it is break the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're so shorter to conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about visual intelligence at the point, obviously is to makes a truck rather than to the area. i mean, with artificial intelligence, we have so many with the in the a robot must protect this phone. existence was on the or the

sales end of the steps. the wild type guy i'm one of the world's most epic rivers were in cost us a region. so beautiful that the people here believe that it was bestowed upon them fight golf himself. so let's get off this mountain and explore the vineland has to offer the welcome back to going undergrad. i'm still here with the author of the rock as a rogue, reported as the american amber and co founder of the declassified u. k. mac cannot match in pop one. you are talking about this new world order as it were, as regards of new ways to, to have a economies in the global south. but this is happening at the same time, the rise of china, which is already the biggest economy by a, by b, b, b. as the genocide is happening that you're in london. i mean,

how hard is it for them to comprehend these journalists that learn the british public, what the government is doing? and you might have to remind us, what exactly is the british role in the genocide that you've been? i know tweeting and writing about the intimate relationship between this a cast on the government and genocide, making him able criminal. yeah. well essentially i think that's the top line that we are not just completed. indigent, assigning goes away participants and have be from the start actually. but in terms of what impact that's had on the public, the probably don't know because it goes back to your original question about the media. the media has left out all the information that people would need to understand all role. in fact, i'd be classified, we've done pretty much all the work on the u. k. military intelligence role, which is extreme. uh, i would say that this is a tripod type genocide. this is

a u. k. us and israel us is providing most of the arms. you guys provide the most of the intelligence and these roles getting it done. and in terms of how that works on the ground. there's one story came out in the new york times in the summer. the, the k. uh uh, intelligent services had deployed a spite team inside israel to help this route with this operation and gaza. so that came out of new times as meet fine is ready. officially these ready officials said that the guy spies we're giving quote, value added. so he's ready operations and they will quote, providing intelligence we call and collect and all right. so this is huge in the context of the fact that as icy see west runs out for the prime minister in the form of defense minister. the fact that as a genocide case at the i c j, the was high school ongoing, i need and these and he's ready. officials a leaking that the british have a being providing stuff with a conflict. and i right, you would think that might interest the media. that story is never being mentioned

in the u. k. media, the other, the other side of it, there's never thoughts about is the we all the you k is sending a spice right. oh, because up everyday, pretty much and sometimes to it i now they're in the sky for 6 hours and they the that intelligence has been been positive these raise. now that you case a while, it's just the hostage rescue. but we've only got one hostage in gaza and we had to win the had started. one of them is killed, it looks like bodies, ready some selves. so what is that information? why is it going and what, what, what does it involve? because my hunch is that it probably is being used for operations by his route because it, i think, the semantic web light, because he says, i need to do with hostage rescue. while these rallies present the whole offensive, because uh, as hostage rescue operations. so it gives them leeway to, to do whatever they want. again, there was a question in parliament actually all the while it was democrat here recently,

but he said he also ministry defense. can you tell me the information we're providing to the israel is not being used for military targeting, and they refuse to answer so, so there's a box that's the thing that's highly suspicious. the other side of is a special forces, a no special forces. people don't know a highly secretive, almost the u. k. state. if they're even more 6, tiffany intelligence agents, easy to get spice of easier information about what they, what they're up to. that'd be fine. 7 close up was around it. well, the guy special policy is coming on as ss on october 27th last year. so soon off the start the genocide, the sunday's paper. they will lead that the essay as a deployed to all based on cyprus, full garza operations. and then the following day to the ultimate 28, you came in, it's already sent out the notice to every media. and it's a saying, don't publish any information about what the ss is up to in israel and gaza. and since that day, we've not had any information about what the special forces today,

which is as again in the context of what goes about these legal process, its own dying. we could be directly involved on the grounding, cause i don't know is up above doing on the ground, used to ignore the d notices when we were in britain. maybe that's why we're in do body. but to kareem khan as being on this show and see for us gauge your of the international vocational court into that for the criminal court. and he's certainly not looking into your allegations. people can follow you on x, of course, because you'd reproduce the maps during the flights. uh where britain, i mean i'm, this is hundreds of thousands, mostly women and children. but it, with the aid of the roy levels. yeah. the disgrace in the name of the the r s, but it does, but people are surprised. i have to say when, when they, when they are made aware of what is going on, it completely appends the whole world because we're sitting on our phones. so the worst stuff you have is, you know, it's maybe the west stuff, you know, my salvation campaigns of warming of civilians,

relentless every day kids and will need to make the kids, the new modem, conflicts of kids with that, with no legs. the legs spun off, almost blown off, is horrendous. and then you know that we're not only just giving them diplomatic support, sending them moms, we're supplying intelligence for them to get this operation done. and people are shocked by that, which i think is why the mainstream media is so uh, it is sold by the company because again, they protect, protect power. and what have a role is mentioned is who is mentioned in a kind of benign uh, basically taking the official line and the for so long as we have nothing to do, it will stay on the ground. we are in new york for about helping use radius to to, to rescue all hostage, which is rubbish. i think so. um, yeah. is this hernandez? i think the environment is, i mean, and people are watching uh, these mouth piece media like bbc less and less. what do you like in in britain then? i mean i, my 6 is the who are friends. it's a gas storm or who persecuted julie,

innocent. we both interviewed jeremy colbin in the new environment where people aren't any more persuaded by the propaganda media system their way could they do what they did to jeremy colbin? the most popular uh, i mean, socialist kind of lead to or position leader in the west view or by these fake anti semitism says, could they ever do it again? or are they that those deep state actors and that is your understanding? it was the deep state that you know, that people can look online to see the british soldiers are using pictures of goldman as target practice and that kind of stuff. yeah, i mean that again, it's a go back to what i said about the media and the free press and the allusion around that is the same with democracy. we don't have a democracy in this country, have an oligarchy, and that stopped working when during the cold, them was elected in 2015. and as you said, the labor party swelled to the biggest party in western europe, and he was destroyed by a campaign around that symbolism. but also there was many,

many elements of the british state, the uh, the one in destroyed arms companies u. k. military intelligence agencies, the israel lobby that you got together. and actually the, the, the reason that the anti semitism campaign came to kind of central campaign was. but it was much better than the other ones. the less for very bad defending themselves. colbin himself was by the defending himself. um so that he was a traitor. uh, he was a traitor. uh give me but the. okay. more important and goldman. what about you? because you are covering these stories about the so called the states. i'm a cool at the state of a genocidal country like breaking what how, how safe for you? we know reports are kick plan bug, the great journalist for the great zone being stopped at heathrow airport. sarah wilkinson, the pro palestinian peace activist and journalist, i understand, has been visited by police, richard, midwest. i mean, i do feel safe that am i. 5 will knock on your door and special broncho knock on

your door any time soon as you show the flights of british war planes aiding the genocide in gaza. what are the, any one sites that speaking out in the u. k. now, cuz it's not just the, the journalist you mentioned just recently. um a so when stanley, he's a very good reporter for electronic. it's funny. yeah. this house rated by the place. i don't and they sees the oldest devices, but what was quite scary about what happened to him was he wasn't even charged or arrested. so probably in the u. k. under there was a noise i can come in the place and take, we are devices without even charging with the crime which is outrages. and then you had sarah wilkinson, as you mentioned. and richard met us. um that basically uh, clumping down on democracy because they've lost control of the narrative. as you might, as you mentioned, the size of the power social media independent media has as growing massively. and it helps to move the conversation away from the state narrative. now in the context

of when you lose control of the narrative for your traditional media assets and you lose control of the population, i majority one honest and ball going to cease while the only thing you have left is the bishop in the population with the lot i don't think we're going to see increasing amounts of refreshing and it has to be picked up. must have been on the case tama, but those that the journalist i mentioned they will arrested or detained. they'll rate it on the case by my so i think we're going to see that escalate. it sounds to me personally, i think the i'm no different to the rest of the independent media space. wherever you expect to will know that there is, there are wrist that come to a new the are i'm president to and the other thing is we know that the public sphere in the you k is undefended. so it will the janice, i mentioned sir wilkinson richard. my test is the when standing not to be struck, there recently, overrated. arrested charged. and no single word has ever paid about in the mainstream media. so it's just the a part of the news, the it's just completely

a raised from mass media. i mean it took me to gabriel scare. i think for me that was more scary than the rights themselves. yeah. that's that silence to give some and some sympathy. i mean, i was on bbc question time with them a while back. i don't have much sympathy. they were gonna look up how his kind of prosecution service tried to pin fake rape claims on julian assigned. you write about this 10000 perhaps us soldiers in britain. i mean the hostages here, the british government is britain like south korea are actually which is being in the news this week. a, a under military occupation. i know the talking about drones anything already up like in the heat that are available from the drones, which so we so little joining the circled wear and tear. is it, do you feel like that? yeah, we are. and again, it is completely silenced by the mainstream media, but i did a lot of work about the u. k. military presence in the u. k. and it's over 12000 us

troops permanently stationed in the u. k. across the 11. so who are a sites that code or yes, but at least to the americans and operate expect to be, is us spaces and they fly. also, submissions often a legal ones where what, what kinds of carried out they were involved in, in operations in libya, iraq, other places. we're not allowed to know anything that happens on them. that's the outraged law policy of the patient itself with us. she's the outrages you can get some information about all the upsides, what you can give it to use. if you ask through transparency mechanisms about the us print military presence, you just told we don't comment on allies movements or activities in our country, which is a huge black hole in america, in burgess democracy and that. and then the other side of that is, and also is another massive black hole, is, is the us intelligence role? because we know that there's a massive c. i a side risk routes in which was the base where outside of which,

how redone was killed by a c i a of this uh, so cooler who has been scared throughout the country. um, we know the uh g. c, h give you just use the case largest instead of just i can see it has a huge station in coma who just keep viewed. it's not as leak showed the hot 50 percent of the funding for jesus to jesus. he viewed comes from the national security agency in the united states. so that base it'd be running the station and that's how it works. us just, we all us our best and state and we do what we told we are, i'm, we're, i'm where we know a lot of government does not allow us to know anything about that. us like tablets activity. i notice the transparency should be much higher before admitted to reason for an intelligent agency in our country. we should know more about would you be able to know more about them then? all right, well basically opposite. now cannot. thank you. that's it for the show match book. the rack is a real group. all of us, the american empire is out now continued condolences to those surviving the u. k. u

s. u, i'm genocide here in this region will be back on monday for more on the scale of that genocide which could be as high as 25 percent of guys are killed until then keep in touch, why will i social media if it's not sense of new country and then to our channel going undergoing tv, hon dot com, to let you know the episodes. i'm going underground to you. monday. the the developing wall claimed and ruined the lines of tens of thousands, but it was the hague tribunal,

with delta of finishing flow to the less unexpected. i know it was that i will talk to them all that will cause up the curious. i mean them or is that the rest of your stuff or some watching the funded thing as man, i'm guessing means okay. up on these. you betcha so mutual blood, the studio because of the thing in eco so tired out table, a cousin built around what sort of on team for so successful the evictions or for something to bit jamie stuff. as i've done this for the bus, they have to go into the stuff as i so the, so now click on the nice to cover the problem. also, i noticed was that some of the the,

[000:00:00;00] the after 2 days of relative calm riots and read night in georgia as pro e u. forces in the countries still refuse to concede despite the losing the election. also it is in fact and officially sanctioned to the rule of lot is in the coma. romanian constitutional port scrapped the results, the 1st round of presidential election. and the anti war candidate won the boat called the decision of formerly to withhold, protecting his victory in the run off. also a head. i sincerely apologize to us. citizens too must have been very surprised.