the, the time option or time. see and welcome back to going underground rule. gusting all around the world from a middle east where nato proxy forces in concerts with israel and al qaeda trying to ever throw governments not only in palestine, but in lebanon. and now syria, this is nato, finally, j simon and defeat and its proxy war and russia through ukraine. all these issues and from the british, is riley genocide in gaza, to nato nation attempts to destroy everything from venezuela and as a health and south east asia. a given the propaganda treatment in totality area and so called western newspapers, tv, cinema and literature. but there are some who have expose the lies in the rackets a rogue report versus the american empire co founder of declassified you came. i cannot delineate something of the systematic corrosion while a few moments a by imperial forces. no wonder it comes into us to buy long term friends of going

underground. joan pills, you know, i'm john ski. and julian this on your math joins me now from lunch. now thanks so much for coming on. i'm going to book uh the, the rackets is, it's been a week where even major propaganda media like comcast sky news, warner brothers is cnn. that alone mouthpiece is like your or our v. c. i found it difficult to explain to their audiences, i think how it is that they support outside the in syria. how does your book, the racket give us the dimension in which to understand why the bbc and john simpson people are on the well, what know these people uh, actually no 1 may know what cnn is given by their viewing figures. but why the media are, is completely up to they, they want to support those links to the atrocities and $911.00. it's yeah. what is interesting, isn't it? i think it goes to the hall, the message of the book, which is that the mainstream media is not what we told is not what uh,

what were you, dining journeys and schools that we are a check on power? the journalism, the constructs the lies of the state and corporations when you get inside it and i work for financial times and for most of the reporting was done. what does the financial times you realize the actually, the mainstream media is really an adjunct to state power. often they do do some good stories of sort of scandals and that kind of thing. but in terms of systematic analysis, a systematic, the construction of the propaganda. you get none of it and that's why this is such a beautiful system in a way because it does allow some freedom within those confines of the main stream media. but really it protects how old times. and so just to go to a point about what's happening in syria. so of course, outside the now which is re branded as h t, as in syria in syria, is useful to us now because we have been trying to, over through the us government for over 10 years. so those people as soon as they,

as soon as they become useful to us, we have we, we rehabilitate them, and propagandized for them. in fact, there was an article today that they tend to grow. we've said sub utilize of how. and i guess the front of the job is still going to build a new syria, that kind of line something that you the people diversity on behalf of those that have been historically chopping the heads of children. exactly. i'm, i'm imagining, think, tell someone that you know, the type of 2001 in america. the $23.00 is made. so we're going to have mainstream media. i actually talk about all kind of as a good thing and about how they can bring a new syria after a decade of war. it is, is preposterous, but it is not, but it's not just syria, it goes against everything. every systematic mode of expectation is practiced by the west is justified,

is legitimized by the mainstream media. and that's his purpose, this whole heaps of ideology, which were fight from a very young age, which is effectively old lies. and we don't have a media which takes it apart. we have a media which regards to types it. so we live swimming and propaganda and it needs to change. i do think it is changing now. i think it's that's any different from even the time i was working at the financial times, which was a 2009 since 2012, that was the mainstream media had more of a hold on the narrative than they do now. because social media has allowed us to bypass the mainstream media, and that is why there's such a tax on social media, but also why this whole industry is brought to the about this information, which again is a junk state. how often if you look at these organizations, the funding so include this information, they often funded by the far enough base or the state department. and they, what they are about is to try and be legitimize new voices the work outside the

mainstream, and reveal new truths that you can't get into the mainstream. so that there's always ways that powell will work to protect itself in new circumstances. yeah, we have enormous good, thank for knowing the brand. american was whole good war planes. we used to protect our car there in effect this week, despite denials, of course, the load must go. we might get into that later because he relates to bolivia, renewal book, lithium uh, quite important for his cause. he mentioned germans as a just that you went to the prestigious columbia journalism school in the book. you say they went through all to the racket and it's lies and questioning things. maybe you have to somehow n t a metric. to tell me about the columbia journalism school, which, you know, some people in the academy might know the way to public. i've never heard of these, but it says yes, the columbia journalism school is basically the most elite, john is a school in the world. it creates an educate stubs of next generation of top corporate

journalists in the states, also worldwide. and i didn't really know that before i went to a nice you went to leeds university in the u. k. so normally do university by go good story when i was there, which got me into columbia by city. but i was extremely disappointed by the, the culture and the level of journalism that was being to practice that of just one example is a henry kissinger who died recently. but is one of the most blood sites will criminals of the 20th century. he came to columbia university when i was there, and i found that he comes, came every year and a to kind of speak, can pontificate about politics and blah, blah, blah. and he was accepted as a sort of a kind of a warm and cuddly statesman. and i, when i was in the room when, when are you speaking? and i put my hand up and i just said, how do you sleep at night? and the whole room just like you to go in order to goest and then everything inside

him. and he said, do you think you a maurice superior to me? and that's an easy question to also when is henry kissinger you're asking you. so i said yes. and he said, and then he went okay, there was a bit of back and forth. he was like, well, the, the stuff you brady, who lives, blah, blah, blah. but interesting, the often that i was attacked massively by the faculty itself. one of the they to a system here that will cover those left. exactly like the what i did was disgraceful and one came up to me often and said, you disgraced yourself the other day. i go by saying 0 support, but that is very um, telling about what columbia university's role it's, it's to whitewash and to support essentially american war criminals and make the actions seeing what was told is a little while ago during a world of law and blah, blah, blah, so the night with all normal exceptions, jeffrey sachs, i know victoria newland and hillary clinton are there at the moment. no jeffrey sites is amazing,

but he's not in the journalism school. i'm talking specifically about it. does this? what is most of the great academic throughout columbia? and also there are few in columbia, but few and far between. i knew some ways they also add on and generate the illusion is there is a free culture that that's a critical power because it's kind of a fig leaf. so they say, oh, the x x professor. well, i'm on a gym level is just, uh, uh, it's a, it's what you would expect to do. it took you about the most elite school in, in journalism, in america is just producing the next, ideologically trained propagandist for the american empire centrally. and then the same happened when i went to the financial as long as you realize, okay, well, i've got hold of things i need to learn to enter the mainstream media. but luckily i had about as, as the japanese newspaper that told you, go away and do your save the world stuff. when you left, i was i see the editor, the etc. and that was my new book. yes. he said uh, i mean he was, is the most enough guy. uh, but he said uh,

i wasn't there it has to be done is go in the say blood stuff love you can come back when you're a bit older. but what it actually, that'd be nice to get to this week's events that given you a threatened me personally, i should say, i am proud to say, i mean, am i 6 as far as we know, he's actively supporting what's going on. and i don't know whether you don't most with it because we can see on social media the, the, the, how can i do it balance, whether that's shamed. what's your blinking state department? just say look, we don't, we don't doing this and jake sullivan despite having previously said outside is on that side and through the kind of distance weaknesses with the same time on the hand. having to do it under. how does that? because it must be a hard sell even to those young listen use desk to say yeah, we're on the side of the outside an isis. yeah. yeah. is an obviously, um they want to do it on the hands on the side. there's been quite a lot of, i think stories of come out in the eighty's route saying israel prefers to have

a set in place rather than the unknown of outside or somebody's name is government, which i think it's just a began to pull out by, by these raise to try and monday the was what is very, very clear, the israel, the united states allies have been trying to break the excess of. ready since for the, for over a decade and syria is a key part of the supply line from iran says blog. and also will this happen soon after that ceased by the it was, was low. and so i think will these things are connected and what they want to do is a for the service team and they don't care who they use. that's the point. so they will obviously they want to come about it because about for about this, the reasons why you say, but even then they don't, they don't catch you much. like i said, but also in the daily telegraph and you're going to see more, more about that. people have short memories and people are very, very susceptible. it's perfect. done to look at h t s is rerun. some they were previously outside of they've now they,

they went to they, they start wearing suits, they said all where we went about diversity. we worked outside and out. um and people buy it for me. yeah. it's yes, yes, we go hungry about a cooper should have a christmas tree being taken down because of course they want to kill. the questions is starkly. i mean, i don't think they get over there though that the you a president phoned as that on the day to give support the saudi arabia are a friends with iran to this region has changed. what do you think about organizations that are being pro palestine? we're looking, looking at the genocide, you can see the guitar, a news channel allowed to 0. where was the 1st ever english language jump? really interesting how they're embedded. it seems without guide as well, cuz all was allegedly one of the main fund or news, right. as well, which is what pays the pre gusts to ideas that came out during the time. i think it's ours, go up quite

a be record of support in extreme is across the region to be in the syrian civil war. and so, i mean, i think the ice, you don't know about the position of the u, i. e in the saudis as well. i think that essentially they want to break your on the tax has certainly not there. certainly not that position. and of course we are here, of course, it is strictly in fact that's really what i'm coming to about the i presume they haven't just read your book and realized that history is changed. but i mean, as you do any, a, b, i m, f, and world bank, destructive policies, people increasingly, you know, going to one these loans. are they, these countries? i mean, you can see molly and set a goal and you can see what's happening in the southeast asia. i mean, i'm not saying is just your books clearly, but the world has changed, doesn't it? i mean, obviously ukraine has made that change up to the sanctions on russia and the sanctions on showing the gc and the changing now as, yeah, there's been a massive shift to the east essentially. and it's major on china to be honest with

you. because even russia is not in terms of its economy on the same scale, was trying to. so trying to is rise and let's say in much 1015 years it could be the biggest economy in the. well, i'm, regardless of what you think about the chinese government. uh, the space that opens up full, uh, independent governments in africa and latin america, asia to operate is huge because of the end of the cold war. there was only one game in town, which was the us, you know, and there was a pretty big time, the less than independent movements. yeah. this out, the faces in 99 for mexico, but the, and then it changed a bit when travis came in in 1999 and venezuela. but essentially, if you were trying to escape these institutions or the i'm asking well back, which are for it to be on the united states. that was there wasn't any other po, to organize around the next change now. and you see the brakes uh, buying can and, and also some of the 2 things happening that i kind of,

i get back in it. i'll stop you there more from the ortho of the racket, a real group which was the american empire and co founder declassified u. k. after this break the, [000:00:00;00] the, the, the, the welcome back to going on the go ahead. i'm still here with the author of the rock as a rogue report of as the american amber and co founder of declassified you came

back in not matching part when you were talking about this new world order as it were. as regards a new ways to, to have a economies in the global south. but this is happening at the same time, the rise of china, which is already the biggest economy by a, by b b, b. as the genocide does happen, that you're in london. i mean, how hard is it for them to comprehend these journalists and the british public, what the government is doing? and you might have to remind us, what exactly is the british role in the genocide that you've been? i know tweeting and writing about the intimate relationship between this okay. as dom a government and genocide making him able criminal. yeah. well essentially i think that's the top line, but we are not just completed indigent, assigning goes away participants and have be from the start date. but in terms of or will impact upside on the public. the public doesn't know because it goes back

to your original question about the media. the media has left out all the information that people would need to understand all role. in fact, at the classified we've done pretty much all the work on the u. k. military intelligence role, which is extreme, i would say that this is a tripod type genocide. this is a u. k. us and his ro, us is providing most of the arms. you guys providing most of the intelligence and these roles getting it done. and in terms of how that works on the ground, there's one story came on the new york times in the summer to be a, uh, uh, intelligent services, had deployed a spite team inside israel to help these route with this operation in gaza. so that came out a new tons is need to find his right. the official these ready officials said that the guy spies were giving quote, value added to his ready operations. and they were quote, providing intelligence we call and collect and all right. so this is huge in the

context of the fact that as i see restaurants out for the prime minister and the former defense minister, the fact that as a genocide case at the i c j, the well as high school ongoing i need and these and he's ready officials, a leaking that the british have been providing stuff that they call collect and they write, you would think that might interest the media. that story is never be mentioned in the u. k. media, the other, the other side of it, there's never thoughts about is the we are the you, k is sending a spice by, oh, because up every night, pretty much and sometimes to the, now they're in the sky for 6 hours. and they, the, that intelligence has been been positive these raised now the u. k. say, well, it's just the hostage rescue. but we've only got one hostage in garza and, and we had to win the flight started. one of them was killed, it looks like bodies raised themselves. so what is that information? why is it going, um, what, what, what does it involve?

because my hunch is that it probably is being used for operations by his route because it, i think it semantic web, right? because if you says i need to do with hostage rescue, while these rallies present the whole offensive, you can cause a as hostage rescue operations. so it gives them leeway to, to do whatever they want. again, there was a question in parliament actually all the while it was democrats here recently, but he said he also ministry defense. can you tell me the information we providing to israel is not being used for military targeting, and they refuse to watch so, so, so there's a box that's the, that's highly suspicious. the other side of it is a special forces. you know, special forces. people don't know a highly secretive, almost the u. k. state. if either even more 6, tiffany intelligence, i guess, easy to get spice of easier information about what they, what they're up to. that'd be fine. 7, cause up was around it. well, the guy special policies company known as ss on october 27th last year. so soon off the start, the genocide, the sunday's paper,

they will lead that the ss employed to all based on cyprus, full garza operations. and then the following day to that all to 28 you came in. it's already sent out the notice to every media and it's a saying don't publish any information about what the ss is up to in israel and garza. and since that day, we've not had any information about what the special forces a day, which is as again, in the context of what thoughts about these legal process, its own dying. we could be directly involved on the grounding, cause i don't know. oh, it's not showing on the ground used to ignore the d notices when we were in britain . maybe that's why we're in do body. but to kareem khan as being on this show and see for us gauge your of the international vocation, go to international criminal court. and he's certainly not looking into your allegations. people can follow you on x, of course, because you'd reproduce the maps during the flights. uh, where britain i'm, this is hundreds of thousands, mostly women and children,

but it would be aid all 3 levels. yeah. the disgrace in the name of the the are asked by it. the people are surprised. i have to say when you, when they, when they all made aware of what is going on, it completely appends the whole world because we're sitting on our phones and some of the was stuff we got to. so, you know, it's maybe the west stuff, you know, my salvation campaigns, a bullying of civilians, relentless every day. kids and more meet selected kids, the new modem, conflicts of kids with that, with no legs. the legs spun off, almost thrown off is horrendous. and then you know that we're not only just giving them diplomatic support, sending them all comes with supplying intelligence for them to get this operation done. and people are shocked by that, which i think is why the mainstream media is so uh, it is sold by the company because again, they protect, protect power. and when have a, a ro is mentioned is who is mentioned in the kind of benign uh, basically taking the official line and the for so long as we have nothing to do with what's going on in the ground we own the football helping use right? is to to,

to rescue all hostage which is rubbish. i think. so. yeah. is it is hernandez. i think the environment is, i mean, and people are watching uh, these mouthpiece media like bbc less and less what's a like in in britain then i mean that my 6 is the who are friends and zekia style. murray. persecuted. julie, in a sense, we both interviewed jeremy colbin in the new environment where people aren't anymore persuaded by the propaganda media system. their way could they do what they did to jeremy colbin? the most popular uh, i mean, socialist kind of lead to well positioned leader in the west and your by these fake anti semitism says, could they ever do it again? or are they that those deep state actors and that is your understanding? it was the deep state that you know, that people can look online to see the british soldiers using pictures of goldman is target practice and that kind of stuff. yeah, i mean that, again, it's

a go back to what i said about the media and the free press and the illusion around that is the same with democracy. we don't have a democracy in this country. we have an oligarchy, and that stopped working with jeremy called him, was elected in 2015. and as you said, the labor party swelled to the biggest part in western europe. and he was destroyed by uh, a campaign around that symbolism. but also there was many, many elements of the british state, the, uh, the one is in destroyed arms companies, u. k, military intelligence agencies, the israel o b heal got together. and that's the, the, the, the reason that the, and some it isn't campaign. what kind of kind of central campaign was that? it was much better than the other ones, the less who are very bad at defending themselves. colbin himself was by the defending himself. um so that he was a traitor out. he was a traitor. uh, give me but the okay, more important than colbin. what about you? because you are covering these stories about the so called the states. i'm

a cool at the state of a genocidal country like breaking how how say for you, we know reports of kick plan bug, the great journalist for the great zone being stopped at heathrow airport. sarah wilkinson, the pro palestinian peace activist and journalist, i understand, has been visited by police, richard, midwest. i mean, i do feel safe that they might. the 5 will knock on your door and special broncho knock on your door any time soon as you show the flights of british war plains aiding the genocide in gaza. what are the any one sites the speaking out in the u. k. now, cuz it's not just the, the youngest you mentioned just recently. um a so when stanley, who's a very good reporter for electronic and father. yeah. this house rated uh by the place i don't. and they seized orders devices, but what was quite scary about what happened to him was he wasn't even charged or arrested. so probably in the u. k. under there was a noise they can come in the place and take away your devices without even charging

you with the crime which is for outrages. and then you had sarah wilkinson, as you mentioned, and richard made us, um, they basically, uh, clumping down on democracy because they lost control of the narrative. as you might, as you mentioned, the size of the power of social media independent media has as growing massively. and it helps to news the conversation away from the state narrative. now in the context of when you lose control of the narrative for your traditional media assets and you lose control of the population, i, a majority, one honest and ball going to cease. while the only thing you have left is to do something the population within. no, i don't think we're going to see increasing amounts of oppression and it has to be picked up. must have be on the case tama, but those that the journalist i mentioned they will arrested or detained or rated on the case by my so i think we're going to see the escalade in terms of me personally. i think the, i'm no different to the rest of the independent media space. where will you expect or will know that there is, there are risk that come to

a new the are unprecedented. and the other thing is we know that the public sphere in the case undefended. so it will determine, as i mentioned, sir wilkinson, richard made test ice the when standing not to be struck. i recently overrated. arrested, charged. and no single word has ever paid about in the mainstream media. so it's just the a part of the news the is just completely erased from mass media. i mean tv cable scatter. i think for me that was more scary than the rights themselves. yeah, that's, that's silence to give us common some sympathy. i mean, i was on bbc question time with them a while back. i don't have much sympathy. we can look up how it is kind of prosecution service tried to pin faith, rape claims on julian assange. you write about this 10000 perhaps us soldiers in britain. i mean the hostages here, the british government is britain like south korea are actually which is being in the news this week. a, a under military. okay. patient i,

i know that talking about drones. anything are you have like in the houston area available from the drones, which so we're so little joining the circle door ontario. is it? do you feel like that? yeah, we are. and again, it is completely silenced by the major media, but i did a lot of work about the u. k. military presence in the u. k. and it's over 12000 us troops permanently stationed in the u. k. across the 11. so who are a sites that code are yes, but at least to the americans and operate effect to be as a us spaces. and they, for, i also submissions often a legal ones um where, what, what kinds of carried out they were involved in, in operations in libya, iraq, other places. and we're not allowed to know anything that happens on them. that's the outraged wall policy of the patient itself. with us to the outrages you can get some information about already upsides what you can give it to use. if you ask through transparency mechanisms about the us print military presence,

you just told we don't comment on allies movements or activities in our country, which is a huge black hole in america, in burgess democracy and that. and then the other side of that is and also is another method by co, uh, is, is the us intelligence role. because we know that as a massive c, i a so i already have crowds in which was the base where outside of which how redone was killed by um c i a uh office. uh, so cooler, so we've been spared throughout the country. um we know the uh g c h give you just use the because largest instead of just i can see it has a huge station in coma who teaches q period it's not as leak showed the hot 50 percent of the funding for jesus to jesus. he viewed comes from the national security agency in the united states, so that basically running the station and that's how it works. the us just, we all as a vast some state and we do what we told we are, i'm, we're, i'm where we know a lot. and now government does not allow us to know anything about that us activity

activity. i know is the transparency should be much higher, but forwarded me to tell reason for an intelligence agencies in our country we should know more about we should be able to know more about them than all right. but basically opposite not cannot. thank you. that's it for the show match book. the rack is a real group. all of us, the american empire is out now continued condolences to those surviving the u. k. u as you on genocide here in this region will be back on monday for more on the scale of that genocide which could be as high as 25 percent of guys are killed until then keep in touch, why will i social media if it's not sense of new country and then to our channel going on, going to be on revel dot com to mention, you know, the episodes of going undergrad. see you monday the

the bulk of the wall claimed and ruined the lines of tens of thousands, but it was the hague tribunal. the delta of finishing flow to the west on the spot on. yeah, it was that i will talk to him. all of that will cause of the curious, i mean them or is that the rest of your stuff or sandwich and the funded 13 as many of them are just that means okay, up on these you're about to send me to blog, but that's through the book as well, the thing in eco soul tie it up table, it comes in, built around what sort of on teams so. so this would eventually go for something to bit jane and stuff. as i've done this for the bus, they have to go into discuss, as i said this, so now click on the nice to promo the problem. first i noticed was that some of the

the, the re absolutely convinced both in the mississippi. let's use filters like 3 up the shop to achieve jo political purposes as it is being done. no rushes foreign minister reveals outside interests in the syrian crisis, saying the terrorists, such as the total and the side for western hit germany we bring to you exclusive potential, the serial way government troops continue to baffle a major militant offensive stops as washington on the main stream media post to