the, the hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm theater. lavelle, syria, as a sovereign state has ceased to exist. can the western back h t s, and other groups establish some kind of central control and who or what will ultimately determine the fate of the syrian people the crossing syria, i'm joined by my guess michael maloof in rest. and he is a former pentagon senior security policy analyst in tampa. we have larry johnson,

he is a former c. i a analyst, and us state department and counterterrorism official and shenandoah valley. we cross who michael? sure. he is the former head of the been logged, an issue station at the c i a r, a gentleman comstock rose in effect. that means he can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate michael, let me go to you 1st and in reston. i'm in my introduction, i said that that syria has ceased to be a sovereign state, a failed state essentially. do you agree with that assessment and what does it mean for the region and further afield? go ahead, michael. in restin it is. um it is. it is now no longer a secular state. it's probably going to be coming this law me state. but it, but that was still too early to tell. although we're still saying we're beginning to see signs of it. there's already syria law being imposed and is syria. people are becoming a little more cautious and fearful, even though they were jubilant at 1st with the overthrow of besides, i,

i think that a part of the problem too, is going to be that you're going to have battles between the turkey and, and ultimately is, is real over the profit of the property over this with this as a pay over the state. and i think that we're going to be seeing uh a lot more out of consternation and people in the region before long. and if israel decides to be a field boy and decide to go after you're wrong, that won't do that. and i'll put it up to a region. the reason why. catastrophe and that will ultimately bring in the russians. but um and, but i think that uh, the syria right now is, is in a state of flux of the serious themselves. i would say this really based. they have giovanni in, in their pocket. but i don't think so because i've heard delani actually say that jerusalem was the next stage. yeah, it's interesting a larry,

they big. i'm glad that michael brought up a. it's no longer a secular state because we have heard b and leaders saying to syrians, they move to your because you have to go back right and go back to that. okay, but this is what really quite amazing, larry a michael already touched upon it and this is a very broad question. it may be almost impossible to answer, but will, will american hegemony prevail will, is it is really zine isn't prevail or, or will air the ones neo ottam is ottoman isn't prevail? i mean, there are 3 major attend attenders going on right now. and they may be happy with the immediate outcome, but i don't see how they can work together for very long moving into the future. go ahead. yes, syria is arabic for yugoslavia who so. busy an unlike yugoslavia you've got at least 4 different groups that are going to be buying for survival. uh so yeah, 75 percent of the country is consider assuming most of them. but you've got the

curbs out to the east, the drew's to the south. the follow ups are scattered in there. so what we're seeing is devolving to each group, trying to assert some control, the drugs that are said, hey, we'll, we'll join up with you as friendly. surely they'll protect us. of the, within the city community, there is no unity of the. there are various branches of isis, various levels of extremism in front of frankly, i'm anticipating that some of them are going to start turning on gilani. because he's, he's pretending to be work in progress. and you know, the, i don't know, the other thing hasn't come out with a suggested that his pronouns are they in there. yeah, it's very interesting. and then when they go to the other, michael here because a few days before, i think this is the the best headline of all times on this issue here. a few days

before the 4th resume change, the daily telegraph road had an a title. how serious diversity friendly jihad is planning on building a state? let's go to the head there, michael. i mean, i mean if this is a to pre suppose that we know nothing, the audience knows nothing about what's going on in the middle east. nothing that's going on in syria. nothing about the dirty board that has been uh, been in there since 2011. i mean, what are they talking about to hottest that are diversity friendly? go ahead. there is no such thing, sir. uh, it's a, it's a ridiculous headline, i think. and one thing we have not talked about is there's a 4th player in the 4th player in the region in syria. and eventually, jordan will be the most from can surgeons. we made a mistake. mr. clinton and mr. trump made a mistake, they, they really badly damaged isis with their cover and they claim victory. and i don't

know if you had it much coverage there, but here in the united states has been almost no coverage for the past since been lived and died. any real analysis of what the, what the insurgents were doing or what the terrorists were doing. and i think you're going to see that the major players here are the guys it and the battle over the long run. and because they have an unlimited amount of man power, especially since july he raised the idea of jerusalem or that the, the but the money should be extra america's last everywhere. since 1945, you know, is the money. it's gotta be on the guys who have beaten the americans and nato and russia in afghanistan. so i think that's the big player. that's what's not been talked about. and i said, i, i, i hope i'm wrong. but i'm pretty sure that the intelligence community has not done a real good job and keeping up to date on what they thought were the remnants of

the majority. i absolutely agree with me. let me go to the other, michael here because this is the, the mistake that actually was made was believing that the dirty war was over the, the proxy war was over. and i n n a. and i don't want to go into great detail here, but the russians are seeing, thinking about this, thinking about ukraine, no, on finished business. okay. because that's what happened in syria. they let it fester, they let uh, it live faster. and this is what you get here and this too long, they couldn't tennessee create a central government. i mean, is he just in, in for him figure michael. interesting. i don't think so. i think he's already as, as, as a letter is pointed out, there's already opposition growing. what among the faxes, look, you got a conglomerate of gays. you have other splintered groups there. now there is no indication that there's an ability to unite and i'll tell you something else. so that's worry some to me. and that is that the christians in,

in syria and the other diverse groups are going to be threatened included, especially the christians. and i'm also hearing from my friends and 11 on their concern, the christians and 11 of are very concerned, not only because of the h t s, but because of this riley's. so they're, they're going to be getting it from both hands. because if you recall the israel, as i've said this is it's, it's the praise to denial for them and given their messianic message that there and there. and it's a ways that they want to carry on. now they consider this to be their, their god given mission to, to re conquer all that they want serious they want, they want even they even what parts of the you freight, i get it to the euphrates and into iraq. and that then conflicts with, with turkey, because turkey has designs on areas that, that are in northern, syria and into iraq as well. not to mention the,

the cottages and central asia. and so what obviously, central asia doing some operational stuff. you can see the target to pull them it's, it's been there for hundreds and hundreds of years. so this, this, this, the turmoil is just beginning. this is not going to be selling what one way or the one, whatsoever. yeah, with larry, that's the intent. i mean, it's already been mentioned that us is not one or more since the 2nd world war. chaos is the intention. that's the plan. larry. well, well, i'm not sure it's the plan, but it certainly is the outcome. ok, let's. let's remember that the central intelligence agency, along with the m i 6, have been working strenuously since at least 2011, to promote the overthrow of of bosher alo side. and they've been doing so in concert with the turks. now just because you've got a c, i a and my 6 and then mit in turkey working together. does it mean that they all

share the same purpose or objective? the turks have always had their own agenda, but inherited all of this was the willingness to provide direct support to these as law make extremists that were embodied by isis. he and you know, they're extreme is that when all i'll kind of law for, we had to write a letter to them telling, you know, then is our call. we the head of vices to, to chill, to cool at the stop killing. all those see i'm assaults, you know, they'll, you're gonna, you're gonna run it for us. uh so you know, this is what we have out of. we don't, gilani is the head of high career. i'll show him, which is that our break off promises. and so the 2 that i described with these islamic extremist groups as like hidden mercury, they will scatter and, and, and then they can fall into different elements,

but they're still the same element of mercury. well, we haven't changed shape or nature. so i'll go to our other michael here. i mean, is there such a thing as a moderate terrorist because that's what we're being sold? well, i don't know if they're terrorists or not in all cases. i think the one of the most amazing searching forces we've ever seen in the history of the world really i, i, i believe that the worst is going to happen every possible way because there's no one running this thing except these release us, or congress is owned by the israelis, our presidents are owned by the is really, is listen to the wild nonsense that trump talks about supporting the use release and wiping people out. you know, at the bottom line. if there's a country less important to the united states than syria, it's hard to imagine who it, what is. it's important to all the buses, intelligence officers, if we get assigned to work and do the job. but i mean, if there was no serious cares from the american perspective, it's just a matter of the united states shedding itself of these really tons on its feet,

dragging it down into the ocean. and the only way to do that is to stop the, for the, the, the blatant public driving of american officials in the united states. um, otherwise this is going to go on until israel's gone, you know, we haven't mentioned jordan jordan's not that good position. yeah. i heard i heard yesterday some somebody said on the radio that the 82nd airborne is going to be sent there to be butcher it. sorry. yeah, i agree with all of you. this is the beginning of something, not the end of something here. gentlemen. i have to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on syria. stay with our team, the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions.

fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills. and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st? can you see through their illusion going underground can one year that you attempted to collect as business x amount apache sat there for the show and then it will have to bluff it goes in and out of it is uh into this is the template to separate the setup button and not to print and then i thought someone did you lose it, ask you what times if i see the media? i know people, there's only 2 reasons to just say each

of us and they're going to be present the day before the work it done stimulates the industry. is it what's money in the process really left? so should william farmer shops might give us who we have good guy started or, or decision did my name, it was a man, it was the ones that ridiculous problems i put in the best one today and but you know, so that's what it is that you want to set i'm sure those are pretty sharp can was i'm patient. did it for she's kim. those are the best. do what i mean? there's a push out the welcome back across. ok, we're all things are considered on peter la built to mind you were discussing syria, [000:00:00;00] the

ok. let's go back to michael and rest. and while i'm looking at all of our faces of this program on this panel, and i think that it's fair to say that we all remember very, very well the global war on terrorism. michael, what happened to that? i mean, if we're happy that a black flag is flying over damascus, then what was all that all about? what was the global war on terrorism all about as well? turkey is trying to make it sound like it's just a little right to have time group. but they're really in control of their truck. you don't see that anymore. although the, the problem of terrorism is very real. syria today as a potential of becoming a new isis state. instead m m m m m m, and i think iraq is going to be concerned. that's why back to 2014, they didn't have the popular mobilization force as they do now. and they, and i think the sheer will be more than happy to meet them and they have the p,

a map of all also come into syria to deal with ice as in the past. so i think that they're getting ready because they're rock by the h t s as being threatened as well. and i would say that with turkey as a, as a neil ottoman does a with it's the ottoman ambitions you've got. you've got another problem lingering and that is that the golf era of countries do not want another ottoman influence in the region and, and that, and you're going to see them back to more is real as, as a result. but to a point. but, but uh you watch, saudi arabia, you a very, they were trying to buy for the influence not only back into serious is bad, aside, had been invited back to the aram lee. he was beginning to be allowed to come back to join the group. once again, and then this, this thing happened. so i think that we're going to be seeing more turmoil. i think

turkey is going to be a problem, but i also see the potential for syria becoming a new isis states. yeah, it's interesting, larry, i mean, it came across a new story earlier this morning, you know, h t, i. so we'll make sure that isis isn't we behaved in, in syria, and i'm just thinking it has an ice us. i mean, i'm sorry, maybe i'm not as nuances other people are, but i mean, or the terrorist versus terrorist, the beach, what's going on here? oh, yeah, well, you know, you read the bible, you get uh, you know, adam reject cain and abel cane enabled the dad begat. well. isis started as a, is a fairly unique entity. within the whole is law makes world. it was different in character. and it, it fragmented, and one of it's, the successors was on this real well. oh hi. out career, i'll share, i'm

h t s came out of this or unless we call it was out mr in 2013. that's actually carried out. the sarah gas attack that was staged to, to make it appear that it was government of syria. so the, these entities with, in this ultra, you know, this is law, make extreme community work that they insist that they, they have the truth of god. and that their mission is to require others to adhere to that truth and that, but the same time they will fight amongst themselves. and that's why i think some of the, the i actually, i don't think jolanda is long for this world to give in his attempts to assume a moderate demeanor. it may be welcomed in the west, but he should look at the time magazine cover of, of a load of mirrors, the lensky, the west may love you, but once you become a part of the west, you don't have long to have it a. well, let me go to the 2nd, michael here. i mean, what is the, what is

a road record of empowering these types of groups and being able to keep control over them. i mean, is this as an intentional demolition slow burn or are these could you actually reform these groups because they don't see that they the historical record shows that i mean, you should be careful what you wish for. go ahead. you know, you can't reform to be the we in the west are much less prone as to thinking that guy because of weighing it in head for us and invariably, to, with the muslim with them would you, again, you see that when they lose a battle, they argue that, well, we weren't good enough this time, the lord didn't approve it, we'll try it again. and we saw that during the ask in moore's. we'll see that again . now, but this, this one is different and you asked what happened to the warrant terrorism? there never was a war ontario, so there was

a war on the line. and when he was dead, we we, we surrendered the biscuit. and the point for that we, we never got, sir. is that been lived and died victorious? that you had with self perpetuating it what it is once he had written throughout his whole career. and we want to get to the point where it all kinda is not necessary. and it's, um, we're now faced with the, the progeny of that guy's list with the several victories under their balance against the world's greatest powers will come out of afghanistan. and there's lots of biases in afghanistan also. and i think we're going to see, uh, it's going to take time. but the idea that is we always going to form a greater israel, unless the entire american military is based on the rack border. there's no, there's no chance of that. what we're looking at is you have another last war if,

if the flows decide to use american power there as well. you know, michael the, the app or do your appetite is a result of how much you eat. ok. and the appetite now on the menu is iran. and you see that all through western media. unfortunately it's bi partisan in the united states. is it read next on the menu? go ahead. well, according to name, yahoo, it is, then i think he wants to act quickly. you're hearing him saying that you're not hearing any disagreement of donald trump. so this is, this is problematic. i. i also see the possibility that we're going to, that, that, um the, the, he's going to try that netanyahu will try to make a move very, very rapidly on, on the iran, because he's, he's, he's on a sugar high right now. and he, and he wants to take advantage of this. he feels he's designated all these other elements, but frankly,

isis and all these other terrace groups. h t us are all instruments of turkey and the united and, and united states and israel. and they have been doing their bidding. if you look at what some of the attacks inside of you're wrong, some of them were instigated by isis at the behest of most uh, so you know, they, these, these west, these countries are, are utilizing these terrace groups as instruments of their own. um, aggrandizement if you will, to try to maintain influence. but the united states is losing every time we we, when do anything we create even more heavy can more unrest and turmoil. and that's, and i think it's purposeful. yeah, i think it's purpose well, i've concluded that is purposeful, because not only israel, but the defense industrial complex requires that. what, what do you think about that, larry? because i think that, i mean, there's a lot of talk about around, but i mean,

i think of well for squeezing change and in lebanon is very much on the agenda. and jordan is looking, it's always looking very wobbly. do you think that, that that's the next stage of this here? because i, i think there's a sense of momentum and then people want to take advantage of it. and trump, he says these things, you could interpret it the way you want it and finish the job, finish it off, whatever that means larry. but i think for talking momentum to momentum, some more like a guy that jumps out of an airplane and the power she doesn't open any doesn't have reserve. so yes, there is momentum, but i think it's called gravity and it's her lean towards disaster. the united states has been to the, to put it kindly, morally flexible when it comes to the issue of terrorism. for years we have the emotional heading of call the, i'm a k on our list as a terrorist organization. and yet, oh, it started with the bush administration,

but it was certified by the obama administration. they were taken off the terrace list and then we began helping arm train fund and they were carried out terrace. they're carrying out terrorist attack. so and when i say terrorism, i'm talking about the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. all i do not love a tax on military personnel in the same category. we. we have another board for that. i believe it's called war. uh, but uh, this us efforts led to the assassination of nuclear scientists and in, in the rod. so here again that as we were in 2012 of funding, the hottest of via turkey never kelly christians, they were killing through several killing l. what's of the united states has got blood on his hands and we haven't learned anything. so there's the sewing of chaos

without a clear strategic plan in mind is ultimately i think, going to blow back on this. now i'm going to say i'm going to say sped fast. i think the strategic plan is chaos. and you just wait for the outcome that you want . you might might let me go to the other. michael here, michael a year from now. what is the map going to look like? is it going to be a syria? will it be a rum state will be greater, damascus, where israel is a fascinating country. it never determine. it never delineates its borders. so it's good to continue with to expand degree or disagree. you know, i think it's going to be an expansion to state. it always has been, it always has been able to come down the americans to play the full funky. and that's what we're doing now. i think it a year from now it's going to look like a scanner stand or, or something like that. because it's going to take time for people to get there from the philippines, from malaysia, from egypt, from all kinds of places, from the united states, from europe. how this since there's so many muslims in the european may at some

point be tied down by, uh, uh, uh, muslims, in their own countries. we can forget that, that ukraine is the biggest going smuggler in the world. and i have to think that the that was not ignored by most of the leaders in europe. and they have a long term view. they don't know how they're going to get there, but they know they're going to get there because that's what the lord wants. and if you don't take that into mind and we never do, we're always surprised and i, i think people would be shocked in. i'm retired now, so i don't know if it's changed for the better. at the absolute ignorance of the world, of other people's face of other people's day to day life. we don't give a damn, we don't understand it. if it's not mark secret, we don't want to read it. to america is the worst lead nation on earth. when it

comes to foreign policy, a well on fox sports like jeremy live, run out of time. but you know, well, i'll just invoke the phrase. maybe this time it'll be different. i doubt it. ok, i want to thank my guess and rested in tampa and shenandoah valley. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time remember, prospect rules the, the since world war 2, united states has fostered extremist and to russian prejudices and hatreds among the ukrainian d. as for 10, at least in canada, united states and countries in eastern europe,

probably everywhere. and it doesn't matter what these groups say or do it will support them. if it is, the groups are causing hatred and chaos within the target country. joe again might done choose, but who should consecrate, download? you said you will as well as one of the middle. i know myself is leads up to date. it was using just $50.00. let me see, i see a use is anyone at any saying if there's a religion the

by the middle of the 19th century, practically the whole of india had been under the rule of the british and by the colonial authorities that imposed that heavy death. bringing the people into poverty exporting natural resources. and moreover, these authorities absolutely had no consideration for the physicians of the local population, treating them like 2nd class citizens. the british were showing signs of disrespect even to those and cooperated with them. the facts of ignoring the religious believes of the hindus let them use nails as the voice mercenary soldiers serving under the british crown. the rebellion began on the 10th of may 1857 in the garrison town of may river north of india. the form of youth, the rebels quickly took over daily, that he rode resistance of the indian people lasted for one and a half years. however, the forces were not equal. the colonial authorities dealt with a rebels, cruel,

late fee and slaves. the boys were tied to the mouth of the cannon and were shot right through their bodies for the amusement of the public. this type of execution was called the devil's with the obliteration of them you may result in the death of 800000 inhabitants of indians. however, the british empire never broke the free spirit of the indians and their will will resist. the brush remains the only colonial empire that still exists in the mountain welled comprised of both its colonies disguise, disapprove of these territories. numerous officially silver and african states that full under frances, so called from so freak sphere of influence. it's no wonder that any respondents on