i'm hi, let me see what brussels is doing. on the other hand, we see that the us is still quotes. are showing that there's a $10000000.00 reward. um, i mean, once brussels really doing that other than just pharmacy, surely they don't. they have for $10000000.00 reward ave? yes, i think united states of america tried to give as best to be able to, may understand the existence of i didn't share that the so america try and make a dreaming go of a restaurant and they are on from existing in syria. and so that's why is a, give a space to this, right? because movements, it was based on your 30, i tried to go straight to the will adopt a new policy. so i think at night it says over me, i wouldn't anymore. so name is sam for rooms that is of theories and it is the months. this is a give a space and the make. and many interviews with the american it shows a to give

a new prescription to read short on the think according to accept this the send you may be president of the news or you, i've seen many said that he didn't, the content is that the 3 massive destroying ones. um we lived 3, can we build it as of the city and be able the measurements are related to the and this it's deterioration of what kind of thing is that compulsory military service is a very adventure interested. so what does this, there's a clear and the main, it's a are, is, there is a way to me and use, are you always the influence of united states of america? is that when destroy any? so we're going to see and any ability to 30th of the business or industries or any other side. yeah,

they're interesting and they're always very informative. we're going to have some, even though thank you so much for joining us. head to the highest of the army, the executive direct. so all the out of center for research and studies times again . that's right. but on some other news, i always a pleasure to have you with us here on odyssey international. i'll see the comments of quit you covered, but many top stories from around the world. we'll be back in about 30 minutes. we enjoyed the the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered the time. peter

lavelle, syria, as a sovereign state, has ceased to exist, can the western back h t s, and other groups establish some kind of central control and who or what will ultimately determine the fate of the syrian people the crossing syria and joined by my guess, michael maloof interest and he is a former pentagon senior security policy analyst in tampa. we have larry johnson, he is a former c. i a analyst, and us state department in counterterrorism. official and shenandoah valley. we cross to michael. sure. he is the former head of the been logged in issue station at the c i a r, a gentleman comstock rose in effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate michael. let me go to you 1st and in reston. i'm in my introduction, i said that that syria has ceased to be a sovereign state, a failed state essentially. do you agree with that assessment and what does it mean

for the region and further afield? go ahead, michael. in restin it is. um it is. it is now no longer a secular state. it's probably going to be coming this law me state to buy it. but that was still too early to tell. although we're still saying we're beginning to see signs of it. there's already serial law being imposed and in syria, people are becoming a little more cautious and fearful, even though they were jubilant at 1st with the over throw. but aside, i think that part of the problem too, is going to be that you're going to have battles between the turkey and, and ultimately is, is real over the progress of the property over this with this as a pay over the state. and i think that we're going to be seeing uh, a lot more consternation and people in the region before long. and if israel decides to be a feel boy and decide to go after iran that won't get there,

they'll put it up to a regional region wide catastrophe. and that will ultimately bring in the russians . but um it, but i think that uh, the syria right now is, is in a state of flux of the serious themselves. i would say this really think they have giovanni in in their pocket, but i don't think so because that for july they actually say that jerusalem was the next stage. yeah, it's interesting a larry baby, i'm glad that michael brought up a. it's no longer a secular state because we have heard being leaders saying to syrians been moved here because you have to go back right and go back to that. okay, but this is what's really quite amazing. larry a michael already touched upon it and this is a very broad question. it may be almost impossible to answer, but will, will american hegemony prevail will, is it is rarely zine isn't prevail or,

or will air the ones neil ottam is ottoman, is a prevail. i mean there are 3 major attend attenders going on right now. and they may be happy with the it'd be immediate outcome, but i don't see how they can work together for very long moving into the future. go ahead. yes. syria is arabic for yugoslavia who so uh and unlike yugoslavia you've got at least 4 different groups that are going to be buying for survival. so yeah, 75 percent of the country is consider assuming most of them. but you've got the curbs out to the east, the drew's to the south. the follow ups are scattered in there. so what we're seeing is devolving to each group, trying to assert some control, the drugs that are said, hey, we'll, we'll join up with the as rightly surely they'll protect us of the, within the city community. there is no unity of the. there are various

branches of vices, various levels of extremism in front of frankly, i'm anticipating that some of them are going to start turning on july. any, because he's, he's pretending to be work in progress. and, you know, the, i don't know. the other thing hasn't come out with a suggested that is pronoun survey in there. yeah, it's very interesting. and then when they go to the other, michael here because a few days before, i think this is the, the best headline of all times on this issue here. a few days before the 4th regime change, the daily telegraph road had an a title. how serious diversity friendly jihad is planning on building a state? let's go to the heather, michael. i mean, i mean if this is a to pre suppose that we know nothing, the audience knows nothing about what's going on in the middle east. nothing that's going on in syria. nothing about the dirty board that has been meeting in there

since 2011. i mean, what are they talking about, joe hodges, that are diversity friendly? go ahead. there is no such thing, sir. uh, it's a, it's a ridiculous headline. i think. and one thing we have not talked about is there's a 4th player in the 4th player in the region in syria, and eventually, jordan will be the most from can surgeons. we made a mistake to mr. fulton and mr. trump made a mistake. they, they really badly damaged isis with their cover and they claim victory. and i don't know if you've had it much coverage there, but here in the united states has been almost no coverage for the past since been lived and died of any real analysis of what the, what the insurgents were doing, what the terrorists were doing. and i think you're going to see that the major players here are the guys it and the battle over the long run. and because they

have an unlimited amount of man power, especially since july he raised the idea of jerusalem. is that the, the but the money should be extra america's last everywhere. since 1945, you know, is the money. it's gotta be on the guys who have beaten the americans and nato and russia in afghanistan. so i think that's the big player. that's what's not been talked about, and i said i, i, i hope i'm wrong. but i'm pretty sure that the intelligence community has not done a real good job and keeping up to date on what they thought were the remnants of the majority. i absolutely agree with me. let me go to the other, michael here because this is the, the mistake that actually was made was believing that the dirty war was over the, the proxy war was over. and i n n a. i don't want to go into great detail here, but the russians are seeing, thinking about this, thinking about ukraine, no one finished business. okay. because that's what happened in syria. they let it fester, they let uh,

it glib faster. and this is what you get here. and this too loudly couldn't, couldn't he create a central government? i mean, is he just in, in for him figure michael. interesting. i don't think so. i think he's already as, as, as a letter is pointed out, there's already opposition growing. what among the faxes, look, you got a conglomerate of gays. you have other splintered groups there. now there's no indication that there's an ability to unite and i'll tell you something else. so that's worry some to me. and that is that the christians in, in syria and the other diverse groups are going to be threatened included, especially the christians. and i'm also hearing from my friends and 11 on their concern, the christians and 11 of are very concerned. not only because of the h t s, but because of this riley's so is there they're going to be getting it from both hands. because if you recall, the israel is upset. this is it's the phrase to denial for them. given their

messianic message that there and there and it's a ways that they want to carry on. now they consider this to be their, their god, given the mission to to re conquer all that they want serious they want. they want even they even what parts of the euphrates, i get it to the euphrates and into iraq. and that then conflicts with, with turkey. because turkey has designs on areas that, that are in northern, syria and into iraq as well. not to mention that the cottages and central asia, and so what obviously, central asia doing some operational stuff. you can see the turkey too much. it's been there for hundreds and hundreds of years. so this, this, this uh, the turmoil is just beginning. this is not going to be selling what one way or the one, whatsoever. yeah, with larry. that's the intent. i mean,

it's already been mentioned that us is not one or more since the 2nd world war. chaos is the intention. that's the plan. larry. well, well, i'm not sure it's the plan, but it certainly is the outcome. ok. let's re, let's remember that the central intelligence agency, along with the m i 6, have been working strenuously since at least 2011, to promote the overthrow of of bosher alo side. and they've been doing so in concert with the turks. now just because you've got a c, i a and my 6 and then mit in turkey working together. does it mean that they all share the same purpose or objective? the turks have always had their own agenda, but inherited and all of this was the willingness to provide direct support to these as law make extreme is that were embodied by isis. he and you know, they're extreme is that when all i'll kind of law for, we had to write

a letter to them telling, you know, then is our call. we the head of vices to, to chill, to cool at the stop killing. all those see i'm slips, you know they'll, you're gonna, you're gonna run it for us. uh so you know, this is what we have out of the, you know, gilani is the head of high yacht career. i'll show him, which is our break off promises. and so the 2 that i described with these islamic extremist groups as like hitting mercury, they will scatter and, and, and then they can fall into different elements, but they're still the same element of mercury. well, they haven't changed shape or nature. so i'll go to our other michael here. i mean, is there such a thing as a moderate terrorist because that's what we're being sold? well, i don't know if there are terrorists or not in all cases. i think there are. but one of the most amazing and searching forces we've ever seen in the history of the world really? um i, i believe that the worst is going to happen every possible way because there's no

one running this thing except these release us or congress is owned by the israelis . our presidents are owned by the israelis listen to the while. nonsense that trump talks about supporting the is releasing wiping people out. you know, at the bottom line. if there's a country less important to the united states in syria, it's hard to imagine who it, what is it's important to all of buses, intelligence officers, if we get assigned to work, do the job. but i mean, if there was no syria who cares from the american perspective, it's just a matter of the united states shedding itself of these really times on its feet, dragging it down into the ocean. and the only way to do that is to stop the for the, the, the blatant public driving of american officials in the united states. um, otherwise this is gonna go on until israel's gone, you know, we haven't mentioned jordan jordan's not that good position. yeah. i heard i heard yesterday some somebody said on the radio that the 82nd airborne is going to be

sent there to be butcher it. sorry. yeah, i agree with all of you. this is the beginning of something, not the end of something here. gentlemen. i have to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on syria. stay with our team, the, let's take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as it shows you fractured images, present it is, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can

the, [000:00:00;00] the,

the welcome back across stock were all things are considered and peter leveled to mind you were discussing syria, the okay, let's go back to him, michael and rest. and while i'm looking at all of our faces on this program on this panel, and i think that it's fair to say that we all remember very, very well the global war on terrorism. michael, what happened to that? i mean, if we're happy that a black flag is flying over damascus, then what was all that all about? what was the global war on terrorism all about as well? turkey is trying to make it sound like it's just a little right kind of time group, but they're really in control of their truck. you don't see that anymore. although the problem of terrorism is very real, syria today as a potential of becoming a new isis state. instead, it m, m m, m, m, m,

and i think iraq is going to be concerned. that's why the back of 2014, they didn't have the popular mobilization force as they do now. and they, and i think the sheer will be more than happy to meet them. and they have the p. a map of all also come in to syria to deal with isis in the past. so i think that they're getting ready because they're rock by the h t s as being threatened as well. and i would say that with turkey as a, as a neil autumn, and there's a with it's the ottoman ambitions you've got. you've got another problem lingering . and that is that the golf era of countries do not want another ottoman influence in the region. and, and that, and you're going to see them back to more is real as, as a result. but to a point. but, but uh you watch, saudi arabia, you a very, they were trying to buy for the influence not only back into serious as bad

a side had been invited back to the aram lee. he was beginning to be allowed to come back to join the group once again. and then this, this thing happened. so i think that we're going to be seeing more turmoil. i think turkey is going to be a problem. but i also see the potential for syria becoming a new isis states. yeah, it's interesting, larry, i mean, it came across a new story earlier this morning, you know, h t, i. so we'll make sure that isis isn't we behaved in, in syria. and i'm just thinking it's, it has in isis, i mean, i, i'm sorry, maybe i'm not as nuances. the other people are, but i mean, or the terrorist versus terrorist, the beach, what's going on here? yeah. when you know you read the bible, you get as, you know, add them the get chain, enable cane enabled be dad be get. well, i so started as a, there's

a fairly unique entity within the whole is law make world. it was different and character edited, fragmented, and one of its successors was on this role well out. hi, out, a tory or i'll share, i'm h t s came out of this or unless we call it was our mission in 2013. that actually carried out the sarah and gas attack that was staged to, to make it appear that it was government of syria. so the, these entities with, in this ultra, you know, this is law, make extreme community work that they insist that they, they have the truth of god. and that their mission is to require others to adhere to that truth and the but the same time they will fight amongst themselves. and that's why i think some of the, the i actually, i don't think jolanda is long for this world to give in his attempts to assume a moderate demeanor. it may be welcomed in the west,

but he should look at the time magazine cover of of a load of mirrors. zalinski. the west may love you, but once you become a part of the west, you don't have long to have it a. well, let me go to the 2nd michael here. i mean, what is the, what is a road record of empowering these types of groups and being able to keep control over them. i mean, is this as an intentional demolition slow burn or are these could you actually reform these groups because they don't see that they the historical record shows that i mean, you should be careful what you wish for. go ahead. you know, you can't reform them because we in the western block much less prone to thinking that guy because of weighing in head for us and invariably to, with the muslim with them would you be and you see that when they lose a battle, they argue that well, we weren't good enough this time, the lord didn't approve it,

we'll try it again. and we saw that during the ask in moore's. we'll see that again . now. but this, this one is different and the last what happened to the war on terrorism. there never was a war on terrorism. there was a war on the line. and when he was dead, we, we, we surrendered the biscuit. and the point for that we, we never got, sir. is that been lost and died victorious? that you had with self perpetuating it what it is, once he had written it throughout his whole career. and we want to get to the point where it all kinda is not necessary. and it's, um, we're now faced with the, the progeny of that guy's list with the several victories under their belts against the world's greatest powers will come out of afghanistan. and there's lots of vices in afghanistan also. and i think we're going to see it's going to take time. but

the idea that is we are always going to form a greater israel, unless the entire american military is based on the rack border. there is no, there's no chance of there. what we're looking at is you have another washed war if, if the flows decide to use american power there as well. you know, michael, the, the ap, a d e your appetite as a result of how much you eat. ok. and the appetite now on the menu is iran. and you see that all through western media. unfortunately it's bi partisan in the united states. is it red next on the menu? go ahead. well, according to name. yeah. who it is, and i think he wants to act quickly. you're hearing him saying that you're not hearing any disagreement of donald trump. so like this is, this is problematic. i. i also see the possibility that we're going to that um the, the, he's going to try that netanyahu will try to make a move very,

very rapidly on, on the iran, because he's, he's, he's on a sugar high right now. and he, and he wants to take advantage of this. he feels he's designated all these other elements, but frankly, ices and all these other terrace groups. h t s are all instruments of turkey and the united in the united states and israel and they have been doing their bidding. if you look at what that some of the attacks inside of your rock, some of them were instigated by isis at the behest of most uh, so you know, they, these, these west, these countries are, are utilizing these terrace groups as instruments of their own. um, aggrandizement if you will, to try to maintain influence. but the united states is losing every time we, we, we do anything we create even more how we can more unrest and turmoil.

and that's and, and i think it's purposeful. yeah, i think it's purpose well, i've concluded that is purposeful, because not only israel, but the defense industrial complex requires that. what, what do you think about that, larry? because i think that, i mean, there's a lot of talk about around, but, i mean, i think a real force we've seen change in, in lebanon is very much on the agenda. and um, jordan is looking, it's always looking very wobbly. do you think that, that that's the next stage of this here? because i, i think there's a sense of momentum and then people want to take advantage of it. and trump, he says these things, you could interpret it the way you want to finish the job, finish it off, whatever that means larry. but i think for talking momentum to momentums more like a guy that jumps out of an airplane in the parachute doesn't open any doesn't have reserve. so yes, there is momentum, but i think it's called gravity. and it's hard to lean towards disaster that the united states has been to the, to put it kindly, morally flexible when it comments as it gives you up to

a terrorist. and for years we had the mojo heading of call them a k on our list as a terrorist organization. and yet, oh, it started with the bush administration, but it was uh, certified by the obama administration. they were taken off the terrace list. and then we began helping arm train fund and they were carried out terrace. your turn out terrorist attack. so and when i say terrorism, i'm talking about the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. i do not love a tax on military personnel in the same category. we, uh, we have another board for that. i believe it's called war. uh, but uh, this us efforts led to the assassination of nuclear scientists and in, in the rod. so here again, that as we were in 2012 of funding, the hottest of via turkey,

that are killing christians that are killing through several killing l. what's of the united states has got blood on his hands and we haven't learned anything. so this, the sewing of chaos without a clear strategic plan in mind is ultimately i think, going to blow back on us. now i'm going to say, i'm going to say steadfast. i think the strategic plan is chaos. and you just wait for the outcome that you want. you might might let me go to the other. michael here, michael. a year from now. what is the map going to look like? is it going to be a syria? will it be a rum state? will be greater, damascus, where israel is a fascinating country. it never determine, it never delineates its borders. so it's good to continue with to expand degree or disagree. you know, i think it's going to be an expansion to state. it always has been, it always has been able to come down the americans to play the full funky. and that's what we're doing now. i think it a year from now it's going to look like

a scanner stand or, or something like that. because it's going to take time for people to get there from the philippines, from malaysia, from egypt, from both kinds of places, from the united states, from europe. now this, since there's so many muslims, and the europeans may at some point be tied down by, uh, uh, uh, muslims, in their own countries. we can forget that, that ukraine is the biggest garden smuggler in the world. and i have to think that the that was not ignored by most of the leaders in europe. and they have a long term view. they don't know how they're going to get there, but they know they're going to get there because that's what the lord wants. and if you don't take that into mind and we never do, we're always surprised and i, i think people would be shocked in. i'm retired now, so i don't know if it's changed for the better. at the absolute ignorance of the world,

of other people's face of other people's day to day life. we don't give a damn, we don't understand it. if it's not mark secret, we don't want to read it. to america is the worst lead nation on earth. when it comes to foreign policy as well on fox sports like jeremy live, run out of time. but you know, well, i'll just invoke the phrase. maybe this time it'll be different. i doubt it. ok, i want to thank my guess and rest in tampa and shenandoah valley. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time remember, prospect rules the

the the russian security services a rest of the assets. as soon as we find the city of less time in general in your journal is a, it's a 9 year old and it's, and your bill is you lose lose in the $100000.00. i residency carry out this as a nation of a rush is general to the resume in the age of why he hasn't spoken about the presence of us. why live in the need you to shut it down or just causes a 3rd after the per you going to give you of statements they investigated whether there was or they could have been any possible american