it will be, then you may be president of new study, and i say it is many steps is that he didn't to contend because that is right. he must have destroying jordan's literary contributors of city and be able to national certainly a military and this it's deterioration of counseling does that competitive, sorry, military service. it's a very adventure. interesting. so what does this, there's a clear and the main, it's a is a, is there is a way to make a new, so you always, and one sort of united states of america is that's when is throwing any. so we're going to see and any, any tool 30th will be visiting the industry or any other show. the one person was killed and more than 20 in the rest, the railway collision in north western russia. and try and kind of hold on $300.00

passengers. i like cargo combs, lloyd flashed into each other and the more months could reach him. know who i thought was, he says 3 of those injured are in serious condition that, that so right away i'll put the house for mr. provide all necessary assistance to the victim. and the investigation is on the way well, that runs off of this news. i was the private company was hit on all the international. also goose break, somebody they'll offer you, they'll come do check those out some movie bucks at the top of the the the, [000:00:00;00]

the hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, syria, as a sovereign state has ceased to exist. can the western back h t s, and other groups establish some kind of central control and who or what will ultimately determine the fate of the syrian people, the crossing syria and joined by my guess michael maloof interest and he is a former pentagon senior security policy analyst in tampa, we have larry johnson, he is a former c. i a analyst, and us state department in counterterrorism. official and shenandoah valley. we cross to michael. sure. he is the former head of the been logged in issue station at the c i a r, a gentleman comstock rose in effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated, michael,

let me go to you 1st and in reston. i'm in my introduction, i said that that syria has ceased to be a sovereign state, a failed state essentially. do you agree with that assessment and what does it mean for the region and further afield? go ahead, michael. in restin it is. um it is. it is now no longer a secular state. it's probably going to be coming this law me state. but it, but that was still too early to tell. although we're still saying we're beginning to see signs of it. there's already serial law being imposed and is syria. people are becoming a little more cautious and fearful, even though they were jubilant at 1st with the over throw. but aside i, i think that part of the problem too is going to be that you're going to have battles between the turkey and, and ultimately is, is real over the profit of the property over the phone with this as a pay over the state. and i think that we're going to be seeing uh

a lot more out of consternation and people in the region before long. and if israel decides to be a field boy and decided to go after iran, that won't get there, they'll put it up to a region. the reason why catastrophe and that will ultimately bring in the russians . but um it, but i think that uh, the syria right now is, is in a state of flux of the serious themselves. i would say this really think they have the giovanni in in their pocket with i don't think so because that for july they actually say that jerusalem was the next stage. yeah, it's interesting a larry baby, i'm glad that michael brought up a. it's no longer a secular state because we have heard being leaders saying to syrians been moved here because you have to go back right and go back to that. okay, but this is what's really quite amazing. larry a michael already touched upon it and this is

a very broad question. it may be almost impossible to answer, but will, will american hegemony prevail will, is it is rarely zine isn't prevail or, or will air the ones neil ottam is ottoman, is in prevail. i mean there are 3 major can attend or is going on right now, and they may be happy with the it'd be immediate outcome, but i don't see how they can work together for very long moving into the future. go ahead. yes, syria is arabic for yugoslavia who so uh and unlike yugoslavia you've got at least 4 different groups that are going to be buying for survival. uh so yeah, 75 percent of the country is considered assuming most of them. but you've got the cards out to the east, the drew's to the south. the follow ups are scattered in there. so what we're seeing is devolving to each group, trying to assert some control, the drugs that are said, hey, we'll,

we'll join up with you as friendly. surely they'll protect us. of the, within the city community. there is no unity of the. there are various branches of isis, various levels of extremism in front of frankly, i'm anticipating that some of them are going to start turning on gilani. because he's, he's pretending to be work in progress. and you know, the, i don't like, the other thing hasn't come out with a suggest that is pronoun survey in there. yeah. it's very interesting. and then when they go to the other, michael here because a few days before, i think this is the the best headline of all times on this issue here. a few days before the 4th resume change, the daily telegraph road had an a title. how serious diversity friendly jihad is planning on building a state? let's go to the heather. michael. i mean, i mean is, this is a to pre suppose that we know nothing. the audience knows nothing about what's

going on in the middle east. nothing that's going on in syria. nothing about the dirty board that has been uh, been in there since 2011. i mean, what are they talking about? yeah, hodges, that are diversity friendly. go ahead. there is no such thing, sir. uh, it's a, it's a ridiculous headline, i think. and one thing we have not talked about is there is a 4th player in the 4th player in the region in syria, and eventually, jordan will be the most from can surgeons. we made a mistake. mr. fulton, and mr. trump made a mistake. they, they really badly damaged isis with their cover and they claim victory. and i don't know if you had it much coverage there, but here in the united states has been almost no coverage for the past since been lived. and died, any real analysis of what the,

what the insurgents were doing or what the terrorists were doing. and i think you're going to see that the major players here are the guys and, and the battle over the long run. and because they have an unlimited amount of man power, especially since july he raised the idea of jerusalem. is that the, the but the money should be extra america's last everywhere. since 1945, you know, is the money, it's got to be on the guys who have beaten the americans and nato and russia in afghanistan. so i think that's the big player. that's what's not been talked about . and i said, i, i, i hope i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure that the intelligence community has not done a real good job and keeping up to date on what they thought were the remnants of the new jersey. i absolutely agree with me. let me go to the other, michael here because this is a, the, the mistake that actually was made was believing that the dirty war was over the, the proxy war was over. and i n n a. and i don't want to go into great detail here, but the russians are seeing, thinking about this, thinking about ukraine,

no one finished business. okay. because that's what happened in syria. they let it faster, they let, uh, it live faster. and this is what you get here and this too loudly couldn't, couldn't he create a central government? i mean, is he just in, in for him figure michael. interesting. i don't think so. i think he's already as, as, as um, where is pointed out. there's already opposition growing what i'm on the fax is. look you got a conglomerate of days. you have other splintered groups there. now there is no indication that there's an ability to unite and i'll tell you something else that's worry some to me. and that is that the christians in, in syria and the other diverse groups are going to be threatened included, especially the christians. and i'm also hearing from my friends and 11 on their concern to christians and 11 of our very concerned. not only because of the h t s,

but because of this riley's so they're, they're going to be getting it from both hands. because if you recall this really, as i've said this is it's the phrase to denial for them. given their messianic message that they're and they're a bit, it's a ways that they want to carry on. now they consider this to be their, their god, given the mission to to re conquer all that they want serious they want. they want even they even what parts of the euphrates, i get it to the euphrates and into iraq. and that then conflicts with, with turkey. because turkey has designs on areas that, that are in northern, syria and into iraq as well. not to mention that the cottages and central asia, and so what obviously, central asia doing some operational stuff. you can see the target to pull them it's, it's been there for hundreds and hundreds of years. so this, this, this uh,

the turmoil is just beginning. this is not going to be selling what one way or the one, whatsoever. yeah, with larry. that's the intent. i mean, it's already been mentioned that us is not one or more since the 2nd world war. chaos is the intention. that's the plan. larry. well, well, i'm not sure it's the plan, but it certainly is the outcome. ok. let's re, let's remember that the central intelligence agency, along with the m i 6, have been working strenuously since at least 2011, to promote the overthrow of of bosher alo side. and they've been doing so in concert with the turks. now just because you've got a c, i a and my 6 and then mit in turkey working together. does it mean that they all share the same purpose or objective? the turks have always had their own agenda, but inherited all of this was the willingness to provide direct support to these as lot make extreme is that were embodied by isis. he and you know,

they're extreme is that when all i'll kind of law for, we had to write a letter to them telling, you know, then is our call. we the head of vices to, to chill, to cool at the stop killing. all those see i'm slips, you know they'll, you're gonna, you're gonna run it for us. uh so you know, this is what we have out of. uh, you know, gilani is the head of high yacht career. i'll show him. but which is our break off promises. and so the 2 that i described with these islamic extremist groups as like hitting mercury, they will scatter and, and, and then they can fall into different elements, but they're still the same element of mercury. well, they haven't changed shape or nature. so i'll go to our other michael here. i mean, is there such a thing as a moderate terrorist because that's what we're being sold? well, i don't know if they're terrorists or not in all cases. i think they're one of the most amazing and searching forces. we've ever seen in the history of the world

really i, i, i believe that the worst is going to happen every possible way because there's no one running this thing except these re lease us, or congress is owned by the israelis. our presidents are owned by the israelis listen to the while nonsense that trump talks about supporting these re leasing, wiping people out, you know, at the bottom line. if there's a country less important to the united states in syria, it's hard to imagine who it, what is it's important to all buses, intelligence officers, if we get assigned to work, do the job. but i mean, if there was no serious cares from the american perspective, it's just a matter of the united states shedding itself of these really tons on its feet, dragging it down into the ocean. and the only way to do that is to stop the, for the, the, the blatant public driving of american officials in the united states. um, otherwise this is going to go on until israel's gone, you know,

we haven't mentioned jordan jordan's not that good position. yeah. i heard i heard yesterday some somebody said on the radio that the 82nd airborne is going to be sent there to be butcher it. sorry. yeah, i agree with all of you. this is the beginning of something, not the end of something here. gentlemen. i have to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on syria. stay with our team, the. the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions.

fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really one say better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st? can you see through their illusion going underground? can the welcome x across ok, we're all things are considered computer leveled to mind you were discussing syria the okay, let's go back to michael and rest. and while i'm looking at all of our faces, all of this program on this panel, and i think that it's fair to say that we all remember very, very well the global war on terrorism. michael, what happened to that? i mean, if we're happy that a black flag is flying over damascus,

then what was all that all about? what was the global war on terrorism all about too? well, turkey is trying to make it sound like it's just a little right try time group, but they're really in control of their truck. you don't see that anymore. although the problem of terrorism is very real, syria today as a potential of becoming a new isis state. instead, it m, m, m, m, m, m, and i think the raw is going to be concern. that's why back to 2014, they didn't have the popular mobilization force as they do now. and they, and i think the sheer will be more than happy to meet them. and they have the p, a map of all also come into syria to deal with isis in the past. so i think that they're getting ready because they're rock by the h t s as being threatened as well. and i would say that with turkey as a, as

a neil ottoman does a with it's the ottoman ambitions you've got, you've got another problem lingering. and that is that the golf era of countries do not want another ottoman influence in the region and, and that, and you're going to see them back to more is real as, as a result. but to a point. but, but uh you, you watch saudi arabia, you a very, they were trying to buy for the influence not only back into serious is bad, aside, had been invited back to the aram lee. he was beginning to be allowed to come back to join the group once again. and then this, this thing happened. so i think that we're going to be seeing more turmoil. i think turkey is going to be a problem. but i also see the potential for syria becoming a new isis states. yeah, it's interesting, larry, i mean, i came across a new story earlier this morning, you know, h t i. so we'll make sure that it's,

this isn't revived in, in syria. and i'm just thinking it has an ice this, i mean, i'm sorry, maybe i'm not as nuances other people are, but i mean, or the terrorist versus terrorist, the beach, what's going on here? yeah. when you know you read the bible, you get and you know, add them the get chain, enable cane enabled be dad be get. well, isis started as a, there's a fairly unique entity. within the whole is law making world. it was different and character edited, fragmented, and one of its successors was on this ro, well out. hi, out, tory or i'll share, i'm h t s. came out of this or unless we call it was our mission in 2013. that we actually carried out the sarah gas attack that was staged to, to make it appear that it was government of syria. so the, these entities with, in this ultra, you know, this is law,

make extreme community works that they insist that they, they have the truth of god. and that their mission is to require others to adhere to that truth and that, but the same time they will fight amongst themselves. and that's why i think some of the, the i actually, i don't think jolanda is long for this world to give in his attempts to assume a moderate demeanor. it may be welcomed in the west, but he should look at the time magazine cover of of a load of mirrors. zalinski. the west may love you, but once you become a part of the west, you don't have long to have it a. well, let me go to the 2nd michael here. i mean, what is the, what is a road record of empowering these types of groups and being able to keep control over them. i mean, is this as an intentional demolition slow burn or are these could you actually reform these groups because they don't see that they the historical record shows

that i mean, you should be careful what you wish for. go ahead. you know, you can't reform to be the we in the western block, much less a trone to thinking that guy because of weighing in head for us. and invariably, 2 of them was one with them. would you, how do you see that when they lose a battle, they argue that well we weren't good enough this time the lord didn't approve it, we'll try it again. and we saw that during the ask in moore's. we'll see that again now, but this, this one is different and you asked what happened to the war on terrorism? there never was a war and terrorist. there was a war on the line. and when he was dead, we, we, we surrendered the biscuit, and the point for that we, we never got, sir. is that been lost in di victorious? did you hide with self perpetuating it?

what it is, once he had written throughout his whole career, that we want to get to the point where all kind of is not necessary. and it's, um, we're now faced with the, the progeny of that guy's list with the several victories under their belts against the world's greatest powers will come out of afghanistan. and there's lots of vices in afghanistan also. and i think we're going to see, uh, it's going to take time. but the idea that is, we're always going to form a greater israel, unless the entire american military is based on the rack border. there's no, there's no chance of that. what we're looking at is you have another last war, if, if the fools decide to use american power there as well. you know, michael the, the app or do your appetite is a result of how much you eat. ok. and the appetite now on the menu is iran. and you see that all through western media. unfortunately it's bi partisan in the

united states. is it red next on the menu? go ahead. well, according to name. yeah. who it is, and i think he wants to act quickly. you're hearing him saying that you're not hearing any disagreement of donald trump. so this is, this is problematic. i. i also see the possibility that we're going to that um the, the, he's going to try that netanyahu will try to make a move very, very rapidly on, on the iran, because he's, he's, he's on a sugar high right now. and he, and he wants to take advantage of this. he feels he's designated all these other elements, but frankly, ices and all these other terrace groups. h t s are all instruments of turkey and the united in the united states and israel and they have been doing their bidding. if you look at what that some of the attacks inside of you're wrong, some of them were instigated by isis at the behest of most uh so you know, they,

these, these west, these countries are, are utilizing these terrace groups as instruments of their own. um, aggrandizement if you will, to try to maintain influence. but the united states is losing every time we, we, when do anything we create even more have a can more unrest and turmoil and that's and, and i think it's purposeful. yeah, i think it's purpose well, i've concluded that is purposeful, because not only israel, but the defense industrial complex requires that. what, what do you think about that, larry? because i think that, i mean there's a lot of talk about around, but i mean, i think of well forced resume change in 11 non is very much on the agenda and jordan is looking. it's always looking very wobbly. do you think that, that that's the next stage of this here? because i, i think there's a sense of momentum and they,

people want to take advantage of it. and trump, he says these things, you could interpret it the way you want to finish the job, finish it off, whatever that means larry. but i think for talking momentum to momentum, some more like a guy that jumps out of an airplane. and the parachute doesn't open any doesn't haven't reserve. so yes, there is momentum, but i think it's called gravity and it's hard to lean towards disaster. the united states has been to the, to put it kindly, morally flexible when it comes to the issue of terrorism. for years we have the emotional heading of call the m a k on our list as a terrorist organization. and yet, oh, it started with the bush administration, but it was uh, certified by the obama administration. they were taken off the terrace list and then we began helping arm train fund and they were carried out terrace. they're carrying out terrorist attack. so and when i say terrorism,

i'm talking about the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. so i do not love a tax on military personnel in the same category we, we have another board for that. i believe it's called war. uh, but uh, this us efforts led to the assassination of nuclear scientists and in, in the rod. so here again, that as we were in 2012 of funding, the hottest of via turkey, that were killing christians that were killing through several killing l. what's of the united states has got blood on his hands and we haven't learned anything. so there's the sewing of chaos without a clear strategic plan in mind is ultimately i think going to blow back on this. now i'm going to say, i'm going to say sped fast. i think the strategic plan is chaos. and you just wait for the outcome that you want. you might might let me go to the other. michael here, michael. a year from now. what is the map going to look like?

is it going to be a syria? will it be a rum state? will be greater, damascus, where israel is a fascinating country. it never determine. it never delineates as borders. so it's good to continue with to expand degree or disagree. you know, i think it's going to be an expansion to state. it always has been, it always has been able to come down the americans to play the full funky. and that's what we're doing now. i think it a year from now it's going to look like, uh, espn in a stand or, or something like that. because it's going to take time for people to get there from the philippines, from malaysia, from egypt, from all kinds of places, from the united states, from europe. now this, since there's so many muslims, and the europeans may at some point be tied down by, uh, uh, uh, muslims, in their own countries. we can forget that, that ukraine is the biggest garden smuggler in the world. and i have to think that

the that was not ignored by most of the leaders in europe. and they have a long term view. they don't know how they're going to get there, but they know they're going to get there because that's what the lord wants. and if you don't take that into mind and we never do all, we're always surprised and i, i think people would be shocked in. i'm retired now. so i don't know if it's changed for the better. at the absolute ignorance of the world, of other people's face of other people's day to day life. we don't give a damn, we don't understand it. if it's not mark secret, we don't want to read it. america is the worst lead nation on earth. when it comes to foreign policy, a well on fox sports like jeremy live, run out of time. but you know, well, i'll just invoke the phrase. maybe this time it'll be different. i doubt it. ok. i want to thank my guess and rest in tampa and shenandoah valley. and of course,

i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time remember, prospect rules the the, the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the this is for digital rest of traces who operated in don't pass under the orders of ukrainian special service in the hands of staying with the blind of hundreds of people who were the neighbors in the towns and villages of john bass. beach was problem is money in a korea and ukraine security service. in case of failure, they were guaranteed st. you in ukraine. however, today's reality for them is jail time for many years,

the outcome of working for ukraine, the enemy is up to 20 years in prison for terrorism and espionage, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the dresser, and the jersey services. a rest of the effects tend to be a hybrid kimmy of left and in general, the good to love. i'm his a 29 year old and detained. e revealed his deep cleaning. i lived with a $100000.00 on the residency. would carry out the mud the assassination of a rush as dental to the love's resonates in asia,