or should i play muscle as she knew was like you strong so enough was sometimes the physical and that's the welcome get across that bull horns. were all things are considered on peter a little elections have consequences? well, at least they should been coming from administration. looks a lot like the outgoing bite and administration when it comes to ukraine. also went to romania, georgia and molto, but have in common. the answer is they are on the regime change menu to discuss these issues and more of joined by my guess, jordan, samuel in budapest, he's a pod cast where the cannibal, which can be found on youtube and locals, and assembled across the techniques. there was a lot of, he is a historian and political commentator or a gentleman cross talk roles in effect, that means can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. all right,

let's kick it off with george and in budapest, you know, georgia is the, the closer we get to and all your ration day. and the more we hear from the trump administer a trumpet transition team. it sounds more and more like the continuity of vitamins foreign policy. i mean, it was particularly when it comes to ukraine is may affect the kind of going to it's the cleaning exception may be is it to you? that's just a baby. so there's an enormous amount of continuity, and we'll talk about some of the, the cast of characters of the circuit surrounded himself with the i have to say, like i said in the beginning of the program, elections have consequences, but it doesn't seem like it comes to these consequential elections are reflected in personnel policy men anyway, go ahead george. hey, i agree with you visa and um, when, when, when the consent as well as the recent uh, pronouncements of the president, the electronic um is very much the case. so let's just say continue with the,

with the, by the station and maybe even a little bit more. all the nato leaders who have spoken to trump in recent weeks since the, his election victory a little said, i'm very confident the trump will continue with this policy chunk of the show just a few days ago and spoke to him as well. yeah, i think he's good to continue with this problem say. and then there was a recent article in the financial times says that water trump intends to maintain the same levels of, you know, always maintain the levels of the aid to ukraine as the a by them is vision and, and then on top of that, he wants the nato member states to increase the defense spending to 5 percent of g d p. now, was that would suggest the trump. and i think what was known about this is that he is very much within the washington consensus show when he is running for office.

you know, these base and those that those billy with within the republican party there is indeed a very strong, non interventionist. let's focus on america of wing. any place to that one. see is the once he's one of the nomination, once he is in office, the kind of a, a band and all that and the low, he has these things like, well, i think we're going to withdrawal from the world health organization. you know, maybe withdrawal from the united nations and you know, this is stuff that goes well because the washington consensus, he paints any kind of restrictions on us folders here. but fundamentally, he maintains the, the state this quote being washington. he did that during his 1st of it was low integration with the intensive break it down. yeah it's, i think it's kind of interesting because what we attached to donald trump, since we've known him almost a decade now in public politics. it's amazing when you think about it,

you didn't start any new wars, and that's true. but he seems to be cho and stone ending a war. and i think that this is something that he's gonna fall short of. the. the biggest problem here is it is, it seems like it's a one way conversation we keep hearing about cease fire is and delayed nato membership. but nobody's consulting the russians with this bible hasn't talked to a poodle, blank, blank, and it hasn't talked a lot profit. well, it's about and beyond a prisoner exchanges over the last few years. me rushing isn't in lieu. how can you end to come like the one party in the conflict? isn't in the look. go ahead and then i assembled me but i, i would have to thoughts on, on this a so right. one is, um look this is i think the 20th 21st of of december. right. any 2nd 22nd to i'd say them already. oh my god. to close to christmas. so look that we have not

even a month until in all of your ration. right. this is the 20th of january and i see oakland street the in george. absolutely. and you may very well it'd be right in the end. but i do think that we don't know yet, and we really know sometime in the screen, we can only begin to really know off the trends in organization. so i have reasons why this has not yet to be something we can fully assess. now, to the individual plans, you 1st look the black shows and brought to a router or whatever, you know, they have an input bias. they have an interest to title, avail audiences that everything is fine. it's cool and nothing bad as we the huffman and sold us the landscape by the way, right? so that evidence doesn't take us that far. i take your point that we haven't yet gotten from from is clear seeing that. so he's really going to do it while he

promised. namely, let's not talk about 24 hours to, to see my but namely make peace quickly. and in essence, we all understand by increasing pressure of finally on kids and taking this sort of veto power away from kids. the whole best word has to be at wolf, if a rush right in directly. and only kids alone can decide when that stops at some insane situations that we've been living with for many years. right now, i personally am still more optimistic then the 2 of you seem to be, i admit that. i think it's possible that we still see major movement on the ending the war. now this one second point that i would like to bring his intent then i'd stop. because if you're right, that is possible, and trump, then you know, terms, it's all around, turn it into to, to black to move the other natal members into paying more. and then continue u. s. military or financial support for ukraine or both. then of course,

trump is in for bay, but surprise, because then russia, if you keep trying to and the outcome will be even worse for ukraine and the rest in the a cool, i mean, george a again, you know, um, ending the war. let's say we have to meet with you wherever of all fanatics about words this program ending the works. how can, how would that be different than russia? it has to surrender me. that it is. i think this is the same mindset. yeah, the war will come to an end when russian surrenders, i think that's with help. that's the real deal. i can't see. i'm given the people that it has around which from given his 1st administration attempt can see that they can think of it differently. george, i don't think so big goes and this is what goes like what i was saying about the worst thing. are you agree or disagree with? oh i, i agree completely with your assessment that was given. that's um, really the washington, this is pretty much of bipartisan but for a few got

a mega america 1st is among the house republican conference. the washington consensus is russia of the bad guys rush. it needs to be stop booted in is uh is another hipaa. and um, anything that can, that can seem to be a um, a victory for hipaa, which means victory for potent risk. it'd be a total disaster and it has to be avoid that. another company is known as these know, he knows his constrains and you know, and we saw in the, the, uh, the last week when uh, you know, he was just dealing with his own, uh, republican quote, cuz i'm on the, on a budget re mazda, despite the fact that he is just the one this massive of election victory. they just opened a defined him, but just refused to do. what do you want them to do? and you can see the same thing is gonna happen and find both. and there is even

stronger the opposition to him is even stronger. so if he were to do and you would have to do, you have to be braving this. i mean for him because ultimate building is 3, except the only way this comes to an end is if it tells the landscape, the jig is up, there's no more money. we're not going to do this. um, you know, you, you do have to sit down to the table and work something out with, with boats in, on the basis of what's going on on the lines of right now. not on something, you know, the see radical think no from. this isn't always thinking along those lines and is that is made clear that he intends to maintain that washington. that says, is that when you look up, leave the people that he is pick i it's hard to disown anyone the go would be the opposite. who would say to him, look, you know, it's, it's time to bring this to him in. on the contrary, these old people walking on the same page as the by the ministration. yeah,

this has been very good. i mean, even the last thing i was the about releasing the, any restraints on the use of the attack comes, you know, his own people said, yeah we, we, we agree with this policy. i am so upset though. i know that the people around him said yeah, buddy guy, do you know teddy again? words, matt or any um to ended. conflict is one thing, but to achieve peace is another and that's another disconnect. and we come from the discourse, not only from the transition team, but from the what is famously called the foreign policy blog. words do man, go ahead and take me. yeah, look um i, i totally agree they, they acted saving peace in the fonts ends of the word and that this is over. um, nobody's gonna stopped again the ukrainians as well or the accepted results for the future. unlimited need. and then one can actually, when we built normally, economic relations and so on. but i mean, all parties concerned that i think is,

is extremely difficult. i totally agree. now, however, it is to, i believe, is edited as possible. and as i said before, after long history, is that and stop fighting this out to getting to that sort of peace. that is a place that looks like that, right? so to, to return to that question, put the ad to manage, to stop fighting. i don't quite agree that there are no people around trump who defend from the bye didn't consensus which i st. george have laid out very, very by the end. it's all it's fanaticism and simple minded, unnecessary opposite you right there. but look, the topic, gilbert, director of intelligence, the j. d. barnes. yes, i know the vice president is just the vice president, but even if you look like he's kind of the designated ukraine. and boy kellogg is very complicated. i think i'm big of us and then google and figure out at this point, right, that comes, we've talked about this before. it goes back to the paper he published to the

fleets of freight, the talking about what one could do, and which most is we have combination of all we really want to talk to russian, take them seriously, but be also one or 2 as the on even more right and was cut out, you can never cry to, you has condemned and then think this contempt is too too much, but the it has spoken against the summation of to results, which he didn't have to do. and i think that um the, the he has on the other hand repeated stupid assessments of breast as lost as well . you don't know, does he actually believes that or is he trying to make up again, the points we don't know yet, but i do think that the, if your argument is that these people think executive of ways that the worst by dom this does think right. i guess, i guess we have coming from, but i don't quite agree. i think they are a bit different. but i agree with you. yeah. but i mean, if i say it, because i like you know, again, they may be it's, it's a splicing words here. i mean,

the rhetoric can be slightly different. i agree with new, but the outcome in the policy is not significantly different. it at the end of the day, gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here and we're going to go to a break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on some real new stay with r t the,

the russian states. never as one of the most sense community best of all sense and the same assistance must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians cruising and split the ortiz full neck, keeping our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the tv service was what question did you say a request for? check the

welcome back. across that bullhorn to are all things are considered. i'm peter a little here, we're discussing some real news and i'm going to go to take on this one of come up with a phrase originating change menu and a currently on the menu this season's menu. we have a romania, moldova, in georgia. without, you know, keeping my hands here do like that phrase regime change menu. go ahead. yes. unfortunately, i think it's a back up for it is because the, you know, that's what happens in the west and what happens between most of washington, libya to call the shots on this as on everything. and you know, blessings, clients are bad. so they have these, these, the seasons splits up and states sort of slotted for having the same same type of mind sometimes who got a surprise, which is like saying, you know,

which was the heart of that surprise in many ways i thing. but they did conduct a video change suddenly and, and unfortunately it succeeded. now. um, i believe if you asked me to about this particular menu model of, uh, ukraine, georgia, i think you mentioned dr. ukraine, of course it is a special case because they have to sort of solidify the redeem change they've already done. right. so if you look at the taxes, whether you're still going to have a resume change, oregon will do. but to solidify it remain yourself pause. romania, georgia, the model, the and i think georgia, they already losing, frankly, i think i, i understand that the solemn is or, but it's really still holding on that the us still sending a name signal, but i think drugs as they have already lost. i think joy rumania, they have unfortunately one and 2 bit of them to be continuing and that same one really? yeah. but i think, i mean what, what do you mean by winning?

they, they get their way, but, um, and the meaning to which they one is dubious. it was, of course, it's terrible. absolutely what happened in georgia is a cool. i mean, even though it's rebel or eventually a new isn't extremely this information based on thing. even they admit that the evidence that the constitutional court in romania used to the knowledge the whole election wasn't leveretts' feelings. the, the work of the secret service of the sloppy and unprofessional evil. they admit that the worst thing about this is of if i may say that, that the very beginning to use it as a precedent. the cover present xander from mine. yeah. i called you on this i think has been to that reason too big you had meeting on brussard and he basically told them, you know, what, they will be able to revise soccer, the sort of insurance which is called off for we have no evidence at all right, they're just trying to sizing and we stopped it and you know about the next case is

going to be, you told them it's going to be drum and that you have to be very careful. so we are now in this world, we have them making a claim that as soon as the intelligent surfaces say something you can basically forget about elections. and one last point, this is of course what people wanted to do to trump in 2010 or 2016, but i'm getting confused to 2010, right? i think with them, but it was all to you like that anyway. yeah, yeah. but this, this most of the whole idea of the original or russia gates of us, of age scenario, right? right to metal goes into v and assess the intelligence community. suddenly that was a theory has decided this is the proper to see how everything was wrong. and then we can top of the present them in america and for it fortunately, it didn't work. but the still on the same sort of trajectory is that trying to train us into accepting that the item at the onset, $8.00 and fee to yeah, let me throw it to just one word we haven't mentioned in this part of the program

is democracy e o space and then we see democracy subverted laughter in different ways. obviously in moldova disenfranchising, hundreds of thousands of voters in the diaspora and it was all that is called good . okay. even though most opens in the west that you have the asper and we're able to vote in multiple places they, they ask for in russia were denied just and that essentially, but teddy cuz oh right, i mean on this menu here, there's a winner. and lease is where speaking now and it's georgia. romania is probably the most. it's problematic one because it's in the club. and now you have, you know, brussels, a genuine flat thing to that, teddy because absolutely right now the, the elections in germany well being are, we can't prove it. and i just said, so they, i just feel there was something wrong. we've got to cancel it. george popular said, that's exactly right because what happens is now in the west is whenever the

election results don't go your way. and that's a good become a he doesn't go home in many places, you say russia. and then of course, the next step is where, okay, well, what's your evidence that russia into fee and rough effect of the election outcome? well, we don't have any evidence, but that doesn't mean that the russian didn't interest you. and that was the effect stated by a romanian press. then your highness said yes, well we know the russian to fit in the romanian election, but it's very hard to find any evidence because the russians are so cunning and so subtle. and d b is that we don't have the evidence, so it really does raise the, the interesting philosophical question. if a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a noise? and that's the view within women in nato land, which is, or just because there's no evidence of russian interference. does that mean that

there was no russian interest here? and so, and now this, this is what the you and they do it and they have to concern themselves because you've talked about the 3 countries that are on the regime change menu, but they're going to be more elections of 2025 elections in bo, gary elections in the czech republic, and therefore we know that the whole of our route is going to go into action because they can't guarantee these election vickers any. well, they know perfectly well that they stole the election in mold though. it just as, as you said, the people leave the, the, the ask for in a russia was unable to vote and says, even the final outcomes was very close. then the question that they've had, they've been able to vote then young bias on do what have lost. and so, and then this now is what we, what have they operating now? i, i agree with you. it does look like they have prevailed in uh, in georgia. i live in georgia a well obviously they have imposed quite

a lot of experience already with the regime change. and so they, they, they've managed sofa to hold fun. but this, this really is how they get older they, they offer it in the you because ultimately they the consensus that they represent it will the most up on the line and kaya carlos and the rest of it just there on know by, as we did with it within the u. s. oh yeah, it's interesting. so the soviet attendance outlook because you know absolutely existing socialism. you can now reverse from it even if it's a one way direction and they have the same kind of a bolshevik mentality and their belief system and how the app that are out there is built to reinforce it and, and also to attend it. because i think it's really important government if you know the default position, is it russian interference. but in, in plain sight it's e u interference, left private or,

i mean there's it in the cafe. so these capital city use boarding alleged the oh, the do very specific things, like in the case of georgia, for instance. they essentially threatened georgian vote at reversing via downgrading of the visa possibility. so it doesn't look very clear case of black, meaning the mosse of the population really into a certain voting decision, right? the other thing is that i wanted to add this, i think draft supervisors, something sort of like the list of the, from the learning progression. you've talked for in, right, you can do it in the tube, it can put some kind of cut out. but it's even worse because you can't even discuss best. um, what the camp inside actually means. this is interesting because the georgia dream . thank you. a good school in, in romania they both actually have stressed that they don't really want to break this. they do you that in reality it go, that's caused by explicit about this. what he wants is an equal relationship where

he can preserve remaining maxima interest. now, george and 3 and very much the same statements and they both believe it, but you can argue about what these governments and parties indeed us understand, but national interest, but that's always the case. so what you have to know from the was not only is that you must stay here, it's really defined what is here. and there's only one way it's, it was a lot on the line kind of colors with that is the average. and also lurking always in the background, george for these countries that were mentioning romania, moldova, in georgia, is what's going on in ukraine, and that's on the smoking chart. it is unspoken. then of course, it would be the case of a goal 3. they're very close to where the action is. so the most belligerent rhetoric is coming from those countries that are far away from the action. so the british government is the most belly cose. but then, you know,

a long way from the action. you know, then you go to google goldman assuming in a, in, in the been, it looks, you know, they're also very billy goes and, but when you get to romania, romania this is, goes a bit, a palms hub, transferring web and read into ukraine. that's it. that's a very serious business because if they, with the worries, the brain escalates and becomes a serious um world between russia and nato romania is going to be in the front line of the actual same goes a little hungry. and so the lawn care. so when you look at the, the map is the countries that are really very, very close. and we know that if there's a rule, we get covered badly. the other ones were saying, look, knock it off. this is a really bad i do. and therefore, the ones who get have to get punished um and it goes with the obama of hungary. i mean, he's permanently in the process that pull. that's what i'm trying to promote opponents of his. and invariably,

there is an interesting case because the legal part is there have a problem on their hands because they, they said we're going to hold a new elections. um, but if a whole new elections then jo jessica is going to win. i mean, to like, like trump, if you try to make sure he doesn't when he's going to come back and he's going to be stronger than ever and remaining, and ortho or differently, you need to know this. and so what are the going to do? well, the only thing that i can do is ultimate is just tell him you've gone wrong, you know, then just keep him off the ballot because the other was there back to where they saw the so that the, you need to have a lot of problems on their hands and ultimately as with breast you have is, well, you can do is remove them from found a book of in prison because there's no, no other remedy. you know, it's very interesting, gentle, and actually remember after the briggs in boats in 2016 and all of these up ads and editorials that one particularly stands out in mind. the economists,

we have too much democracy. there's too much democracy in, in the western world and on that obviously the, the, the meaning of that is that if you give people the, the, the last thing people have in the west of you've taken everything away from, you've shuddered the middle class, one thing they have the left is the franchise and they're gonna start and they are taking away that lead from them as well. the beacon of democracy of is no longer the west. maybe it never was or a gentleman that's all the time. we have a want to thank my guess in budapest and, and assemble. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are to see you next time. remember, my stuff was the,

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