the, the hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . facade is gone. now what, what about syria? is it gone to? it would seem so outside powers or carving up the country. what was in international proxy war against damascus is turning into an international civil war . is there a place for the syrian people, the cross fucking syria and joined by my guess i'll, we risk in be real key is a security and political affairs analyst, also in lebanon. we have each of the stuff id and he is an associate professor in

canada research chair in the history of the modern middle east at the university of british columbia. and in manchester we crossed the peter ford. he is a former british ambassador to bahrain and syria. are a gentleman, cross talk girls and a tech. that means you can jump any time you want, and i would appreciate it every single time i i'm best or forward. if i go to you 1st and in manchester and the title of this program, does syria have a future? and if it does, what is it? go ahead. i'm afraid the future looks very great. very blake. indeed. now of course 3. the media are in the west hoping emphasizing the, the positive and the word which keeps copying is tribute ation cumulation . because there are some people in the street to obviously overjoyed at the removal of a shaw. but that's only hoss the picture if you,

if they took the cameras to the boy that we live in on an interview and some of the 1000 streaming out every day in, in fear for their lives. cumulation would not be the would coming to their lives. so basically how for syria appears to be looking forward to the kind of future that they want. and as i'm as future and the other half or more, i'm dreading it. well, i'll let you know that there was the famous phrase that goes back to con, to lisa rice, you know, creating the new middle east. well, i suppose there is a new middle east now, but is that, is anyone security been enhanced with this dramatic change in syria? ali and they wrote, and i think that the main beneficiary or whatever to remain, but officially is as we whole know,

regarding the events in serious in the immediate future. and they need to, you're having this right of them to, to the age for their own reasons. i think that the is randy is of played on major major pods in health situation. i was on the fall that it was before right before the events in syria and when benjamin video spoke about, are you a middle east now? what is that for the time being uh, his interest or the is there any interest converge to with the top cushion 1st? i'm not sure how long that's going to take, or i think we've already starting to see some rivalry emerging between the turkish and they use radios on those. i think that nobody security has been enhanced. i don't think so. okay, security more the way it has been in the past. so yes, you're still designated as a 10 or worse group to talk to you. if you remember before, it was subject to the terrorist attacks my system while your other groups and there's a rear wheel chance of devices can take advantage of what

a 2nd place. this is a very, very good environment for why it's just a rock describing for these ladies. i think that their expenditure displays all day that has to be admitted the in house being so they've expanded into serial, occupied additional territories. so their ambitions not familiar where nothing here who is our mission has been served. and it's interesting to note that sort of thing is your, how these do not have a history of targeting, as well as even the former head of the most uh, a site that they said back in 2016. so i see that these rallies have benefits and as your previous guest mention, i don't think there's a cost. there's an operation by washington. the ministration has spoken about how they contributed to what has taken place. but in the northern think that this service american interest for their to be how you set up asia, how the lead countries emerging, syria was a day to be even a week site to be in syria. because as i said,

that serves isis. and particularly for president, i like to bind to that would be a disaster because of the present, the electronic, sorry, that will be a disaster for him. because on the he's watch, we saw i. so seeing the great that in the, he took responsibility for the summation of, of the kind of about that these are recall. yeah, but be careful what you wish for. and it's always the case here. she helped me if i can go to you also in lebanon here. what is the future of this region? is it neal ottoman is um, is it zionist? is that american head gemini? i mean, they all can co mingled together for a long go ahead as well. i think at this point, it's difficult to see how things are going to go, but we do have some indications in relation to what happened in syria that as i've been mentioned, although i, i kind of disagree about the uh, whether this benefits or doesn't benefit united states, but we do has 2 big winners on did use political stage, which is 30 and is reading. i think we have to look at more than one dimension. so

what are the dimensions it has to do with the minutes we struggle with the military, the distance and existence, i guess there's variance, and they had gemini and the presence of us forces in the region, including and northeast and see how we have the future of us military bases in the region, so that's one dimension. the 2nd one has to do with the economic i mention uh no matter what we think about whether these groups, the selfie established groups are in line or not in line with western ideology. if they adopt any liberal economic model, they opened up sir, yeah, for investments for an investment is they actually reassess it date. but sure, i was only able to bring policies that brought 30 it economic start this power into the region. then we may be seeing a kind of like a sort of speak uh, gun sized ation of syria, a re alignment of syria along these lines. so that could be one of the future is

that we're looking at. and that's what it is, but very worry. so because of the level of destruction, of the syrian economy, of, of syrian infrastructure as if this is going to be a new only guarantee that's just hasn't, it's not us favor which is again, there are association of but charged only guarantee. then that's also a cause of concern. and lastly, maybe i'm going back to the 1st point. i do think this is a legal situation for the access of resistance. there's no question about, oh okay, yeah, i want, i don't get to that in the 2nd part of the program. that's one of my questions here . i'm master ford. what about that? i mean, if there's, if there's going to be any kind of a economic rebuilding and you need security, but i don't, i don't see the elements of security in, in the, in the, in the present the, even in going into the future. i, i don't see how this is going to pan out. there are too many competing interest as um, with the 2 key questions here. uh the, the sanctions uh, related and the oil. now there is a,

i mean decent rush uh towards the sanctions relief on the part of most of the western powers. and many of the public relations exit of the jihad. you regime of directed towards this because it was basically a sanctions that did for the shop. and it may well do for the new regime if they're not listed. and therefore, a people's hopes dash and united states seems in 2 minds on the sanctions relief. on the one hand, they that inclined to indulge and consolidate the new tests who are in power and damascus. but on the other, they seem to be hearing is riley voices saying, hey, don't be so quick. uh you don't all these people any favors. they're not even

useful to you anymore. they've done the job. they've got rid of the russians. they got rid of, you ran, they got rid of bass shot. you don't need to be make nice with these people. so i sense that the united states, as usual, will listen to the is raven is on this, and we'll uh, drag the seals on sanctions really on the oil. i think the u. s. is in a bind and they will end up surrendering it to the g. hardy's that, those us troops had one main function to stop. i said, getting his hands on the oil. in theory, the troops were there to find boxes. that was a fiction. uh no, it was to stop that said getting the oil and to uh, use the proceeds from the sale of the oil to fund the cartridge or toner

administration. well, the, you, it doesn't need the codes anymore. well, the codes go. yeah, i think that's what we'll have to. yeah, i'll we, i mean, there, that's the, the, that's the western powers having any, have any interest in a, a recovering syria. i mean, just leave it as a wasteland. doesn't that serve a purpose for the west or israel even for turkey? so i think that the west policy to what syria is very much to a large degree dictated by israel. i think that's how the west sees the situation in syria. but the, regarding the issue of sanctions as an important point, i think we have to remember we're talking about a group of which how through from of the car, the in the end extra yes, usually we're all was formerly on the stop. and most of it was the, it's going to get the official a video of the car, the now you're talking about a car that which was behind the cruise of september 11th. so i don't think it's going to be that easy where there use, well, once it or not,

whether it wants to sanctions to remain or not. it's not going to be very easy for any american ministration. i think to at least functions that will put them in a very difficult, difficult situation. you're talking about the worst, have a foreign terrorist attack on the west phone land that in of itself. i think he's a, he's a big hook. stickle. now i think that um, when it comes to which vital interests, i'm not talking about his rouse interest, which device will interest that i am already in the happening. i know some of these are the type of up syria now regarding the new liberal outlook, which is a colleague and they read mentioned, i think that you'll learn a lot from other shut off. he's trying he possibly use and see regarding looping, and not serious, adopting a more moderate steps that might be true. but there are a lot of all the hard line elements with the united states. so wouldn't disagree. and i think that's going to be a major issue for many of these people. it could be valuable unclipped effects to

like this. for example, the us sanctions, which quite expect to continue to remain in place given the hug card building. that's also going to be another obstacle. so there are various various features of client i think, which would pose, i really, really big on the challenge and difficulty for the kids. it's very antsy. we're all talking about the interest of a, the countries, but not the really the interest of the syrian people. i think that's the point of the program gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the syrian state with our to the russian states. never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best. most all sense and up the,

in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the services for the question, did you say even closer to the,

[000:00:00;00] the stuff, this is the silver tortured machine for the opportunity such as your dog and the bishop should do this vehicle. is it worth tomorrow? have us kind of what it means? different products come and see if it doesn't take her to testify this thing. and so we can, even though is the new month,

so i was unable to deal with the company and some brokerage developing bio, chemical weapons inside of the guns. got to watch some, you know, wasn't cheap, but the reason why the white glove service cost, but he's because of the 2nd, which is the welcome back across stock. were all things are considered on peter roosevelt remind you. we're discussing syria, the okay, let's go back to one of our guessing it and love it. i'm here show him. you mentioned the because the, the act, the resistance, what is the state of the resistance?

okay, we have to remind everyone, come us may not be destroyed, but guys, this certainly isn't a genocide continues as we're talking about syria, depending on who you want to believe. has blogs on the back foot, not defeated, but certainly been, uh, injured, syria, miraculously it's just collapsed. um, so what, where does the resistance stand or do we should, should we be talking about the resistance anymore? go ahead. while we certainly shut down the resistance is still present the resistance in some respect system very strong and actually is we, we start with guys, i move around, we can see, as you mentioned, that we are actually witnessing continued resistance and uh, you know, happening every day we have actually casualties on these very side. that being said, of course, the situation in gaza is disastrous and is we've continues to occupy uh, territory. it continues to conduct large, large scale destructive rates on gaza and displace and kim palestinians on the

lebanese front. the see sign that we have seen has stopped the fund, i think. so that's one set back. if we think about the idea of the unity of the friends at the same time is really as, as failed to actually, you know, take hold of lebanese territory in the south. but there's a lot of them be due at the about the conditions of the ceasefire. there's constant violations happening, the m and these are still conducting a long range of operations, but they're not perhaps as frequent. as you mentioned, the celia has uh, you know, the sued army has been a blue part of it has been obliterated. the non state actors, i've shown extreme resilience, i should say, these are they who do use the from us or has been look at the same time. they are facing a serious challenge because in the case of loving on the supply lines have been caught by the new rulers of damascus. syria was a g o strategic depths offered you strategic depths to the resistance. one is now kind of also somehow giving

a lot of different magic signals. it's not conducting any attacks as it used to. so i believe that of course, so long as there is occupation and now with is really expansion. and the end up in syria, we are going to see a continued resistance. but the access itself as a viable long term uh coalition is in my opinion, object to lay speaking under enormous strain. and it's huge. it is on certain. and that actually costs are a serious question over the are the question of armed existence, visa, the other forms of struggling, deliberate thought is time investment afford out there. let's continue with it around here that you know, the appetite comes with the eating. and we obviously know that the, the net at yahoo government has been, uh, well for the, for as long as he's been in power, been pressuring the united states, do have to go on and military adventure against the ran. what are the possibilities of that now, particularly the interim before the, the next administration?

well, it ran has some sort of nature, nature blow by the law so that it's soft underbelly, syria. now these riley's and boasting, but they have a car to and then a car in to, to tell around. and it's true that all those early warning stations are obliterated. it will be much easier now. so this way, the aircraft to reach uranium, the space which you the scary so it will incline the israelis towards the venture arisen and with the prospect of the friend donald trump coming to town very soon it's probably whys us to hear radians to tone things down

a bit and then show that that's the face. and one of the things you ran really needs to do is concentrate on the shoring all the ally, the remaining ally 11 on uh, which will need even more support. how is it that support is go to the m logistically is a major major problem. um, but it may be that for the longer term, since paula needs to re conceptualize itself no longer present itself so much as a member of the resistance and concentrate on its its own position in level and on the position notes is constituency, mainly the she or community and level because when, when we look back at the wisdom of joining come us after

october 2023. i think we have to do so quick. this is him and say that it was, it was not wides. so that's easy to say with time. so i well, it, you know, it's, go back to ali, oh the, you know, i, i started out with you around, but i mean, a country that is very, very weak, obviously is web and on. i mean i, i could for see, considering the instability in the region that there would be an attempt for machine change in be root. what i'm not sure you can apply that some resume change to buy your uh, you know, 11 on 011, east up and comes in and out the presidency there is a really eventually the good point. good. good point. good point. good point. good point. but um, when it comes there has been fee is raised about to his radius resuming the war on $11.00 on to the exploration of these 60 day period. which is that period where the

steps should be taken to start to implement that enforced. they cease fire. the argument is based on the assumption that the, the full sized strength is. israel's hand weakens because of the law. so therefore his world can seize the opportunity and the only non counselor to has the law. personally, i don't think that is unlikely scenario or i think that the americans in particular have invested a lot in this case file. and i think that the incoming trump administration does the, does not want the situation to deteriorate and leveled on. in fact, i think one of the factors, one of the factors which drip to the ceasefire was the ultimatum which from gave you for remember when he visited the restaurant in michigan. and he focused on the necessity of bringing it and it happened to the lower level in addition to the fact that it has been a lot was able to with the so these increase it as the blows and continued to launch me. so i was on the use right on the front. it was down in the room. i used to be down and out quickly about the,

about what our method of for mentioned regarding because the last priorities are considered as the law. i could look at the estate principle, the speech is being given by its use agreed general secondary causing it is focusing on the domestic situation, ensuring all the situation domestically without disregarding the resistance. so has the law is in this process of reassessment, the re evaluating, sorting out to get to priorities in the shape of causing more than way. he was the one who used to be assigned with the task of the lebanese domestic situation. so we use mobile play some others to, you know, deal with that situation and, and focus on the domestic and off has the last strategy to it. and we the former leader of, of hezbollah and thus, rolla, he famously said without syria, there is no palestine. can you reflect upon that statement?

but let me 1st say that it would be a mistake to think of as well as intervention is unwise in any way, shape or form. but a, precisely because we have to remember that the looks of flooding the operation. and what happened after was a turning point in the liberation of palestine because of this idea of a unity of friends. this actually emphasizes the press secretary in nature. it would be very dangerous of actually hezbollah simply was drawn into, it's quote, unquote, she environment and kind of became to embedded in the lebanese domestic font. because that's generally a recipe for uh, you know, uh, increased reaction or the politics and inside level. not a lot of, as well as baltics inside lebanon is not different from others. what actually stood out for has been that historically, is it's actually resistance. it's opposition to, is it a lease that the colonialism? so it's very important to maintain that why and of course, taking into account how to survive in a hostile environment,

how to prevent further utilization of any determines as well. so i think we have to balance these 2 things are not simply shift to a domestic agenda and of course, reconstruction in south lebanon is itself a form of resistance. that'd be strengthening of people's ability to go back to their homes. is a form of resistance. but it has to be framed in that way, as opposed to actually getting more about what's happening within lebanon. now your question about syria? historically, sir, yeah. what's the, what the, what the, you know, uh martha, my son, i said is absolutely true. serious of the heart of uh, you know, the started for palestine from the very outset. it's actually a center for out of national. i don't, let's you, that was very much about the liberation of palestine. is that of land. it was involved in all doors with these mean and it has been unfortunately, perhaps the only government that was willing to support under justice. we shouldn't

forget, at the same time that the cause the father standing cause is not just the cause of has about, are serious. it's also the cause of georgia and it's the cause of egypt that the cause of the world around. so what i think is important at this juncture is to start pushing for a. 5 you know, a why do a network of supporters of, of, under resistance be on celia is one to actually start to think about why isn't jordan or the, you know, people in jordan, they need to also, uh activate, uh they have uh you know, grassroots movement. there for the can parties, the more the ceiling in the front is neutralized. the more that we have to think about sustaining other friends and not actually shutting them all down so that the only remaining front is garza, which is you know, a serious problem in the future. okay, and best that are for we just have a few seconds left here. what's the stop israel from continuing its expansion?

go ahead as well. the lesson of the last 2 years is that only one thing can stop israel, and that's the military position that it needs. because it's brushed aside everything else and uh, us pressure virtually nonexistent action in, in, in the un legal action. the media offers. it shouldn't change to the public opinion across the world. israel is now a lawless state. exact thing, without restraints, and it feels that it can get away with anything. and that's being proven repeatedly over the on that no general. i'm not, no gentleman, we've run out of time. i want to thank my guest in manchester and in lebanon. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t. c,

unix diamond remember prospect the who when i was wrong, just don't to shape out the application and engagement trails. when so many find themselves will support we choose to look for common ground. the in 1941, the radical right wing was social organization seized power and from the independent

state of croatia. good, cool. on the 10th which kind of around with it's still a system of these 3. i just got one of the main targets was children. historical sources say the gosh, killed over 72000 children business it my god, they have done a roll of nose up that of course i say, you know, they may have done one up front of the system. we cannot just go a b, c on that. and even the germans themselves were horrified by the atrocities committed by the stuff that was left in of that. so there's a lot to deal with global mistakes. theme is that new style structure. possibly it could be too tight and not to allow me to research on

the the chess willis. i was the nobody's telling me that a human was. i don't get this, but i'm not for disability, but i thought you still there about some of the, from the resort within the water. this woman hides her face and identity because of the nature of her job, which she's been working for almost a year and a team gathering evidence on the existence of sync with us labs in ukraine. the russian interior ministry suspects that we use to test biological weapons for the 1st step is that then they saying that she's the real quick. it was say,

we shift anybody from the have to escalate to expedite didn't exceed the shape.