of the wars and the reason he should be the president that the pressure is it and to stop the word on does that immediately to stop this vicious cycle of military actions that, that happening in the middle east dean knows about it. well that he's the or that he, he, he presented, it presents the only country in the old come stop. is that a not an immediate if he wants to do that, you can do it. let's see, what do we have? what would he do? okay, well, we wish you a very happy new year and hopefully it's a peaceful one in, in the region we can but help calculate at dr. misspelled support through the leader of the policy and the national initiative lives on our tea. thank you. thank . i know it's often said cindy, just i'm up last the same. that's ending award is more difficult than starting one . donald trump doesn't appear to believe that though when it comes to the training comes like stating that he would finish it in 24 hours. will he be prove rights

when he takes office? crosstalk debates. that's the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter level. as the year ends being coming, trump administration continues to believe it can in the conflict in ukraine. trump, and these people are beginning to understand ending this conflict is more difficult than starting a war. the problem is moscow cube, and washington wants to different outcomes. the

cross section ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, carla nixon in washington. he's a political analyst and radio host in pittsburgh. we have jim cabinet. he is a political analyst and in serbia and have drago capacity as a fuel political. the military analyst are gentlemen cross lock rolls in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. let's go to a drag out 1st. and serbia, i'm a one glimmer of light. so it coming out of the incoming trump administration is keith kelly general keith kelly as old as the cold war by the way. so he's got a lot of experience or he's antiquated, we will find out as we move forward here. he says that trump does not want a settlement to collapse like the 2014 minutes agreements. when i read that i was kind of like, well we so you know, is what the minister agreements are. that's a good starting point for this here because most people talk to you about this complex have no idea what i meant. what he talked to you about, at least he's aware of it. i'm not sure what he thinks it means. so that's our

jumping off point on the trumpet and ministration, claiming it can in this conflict, which has been very dubious of ever since the present the legs claimed he could do that. go ahead and drago as well. i mean it is it's, it's very um, it's think it's a good thing that he knows what dimensions agreements are in his lease. he's not saying it was done, you know, to the, by time for the key of raising as was the case. but the previous western leaders, particularly uh, the former president of france, alons and former chancellor germany mircle. so who's, who actually said that only that it was with just the roost to get the russians, you know, to give them your trains and all the time to prepare for the war as. so this is good. obviously, we can expect from to actually end the war and in 2 days or 24 hours, i can't remember exactly how much time he said he would. uh, it would take us here for him to do that. but it's certainly

a good message to the world because we've seen that the current administration is essentially pushing us into a global disaster. and the fact that he does want, that is certainly refreshing because, you know, if you have a country with 5000 nuclear weapons coming out of the country with nearly 6000, you wants to make sure that they are at peace. and where this is not what we're getting from the current administration, which keeps escalating tensions with russia and doing things that would make other countries respond directly. but of course, the russian leadership understands to the, the weight of its responsibility. and this is the sole reason why it hasn't responded directly, even though it has the capability to do that. so it's certainly a good message due to the world. and um, i'm not sure how successful truck will be, but it's, it's a better start than what we have now. oh, garland, i mean, going back to the men sca comments that uh, general kelly made mean since he brought it up,

shit. and he be aware that it was actually a fraud on the part of the west as drago is just told us. i mean, the, the importance of bringing that up is that the russians, they had the men's process. they had a very short process after the complex started in minutes. that around is stem bull . so i mean, we got minutes, one minutes to we got a bill rose and, and then we have this symbol. i mean, there's that, that's 4 times 4 times, you know, that's for going to the rodeo 4 times. and they were all frauds. i mean, we watch the russians believe the 5th one is going to be true. darwin. yeah, i think what the, the, the, the trump administration understands what's going on. and the dynamics here in the, in the, in the hurdles they're going to run up against. and, and the reason i say that is because, and i would recommend any of our listeners to go read the opposite that was written by r f k junior. and donald trump, donald trump, son donald trump junior, and it was in political when the hill. and if you look at that,

you'll see that they have a pretty deep understanding of the situation. and i think that their problem is not going to be with the russians. the russians are fairly reasonable. their problem is going to be with the blob here in washington. we have c, n, m, i 6 the rest of the ad with the video nazi's in ukraine, the other sides willing to make a deal that these lunatics are going to be doing. you know, god only knows what to stop. donald trump with him, that's. i'm glad the garland brought that up because yeah, i'm, i'm on the face of it. i think going to go, we can. so russians have made it clear the terms and conditions of negotiates. it's been that's well known, i think we go back to june of this year where i present improved and made it very clear point by point here. but the garland does right. jim, is that it's gonna be uh, sabotage within washington, within brussels, within the u. k. to not allow any kind of process to move forward. jim, your thoughts as well? yes, i think it's kind of wishful thinking to take the think that donald trump is kind

of some kind of deep seated anti war peacenik. he's not, you know, he's a dedicated american exceptional list. he's going around to talking about taking over the kind of mark analogy and, you know, kellogg, keith kellogg. i think he said his name was kelly, but keith kellogg is general that he's going to send us the representative to rush you about this. you know, he put forward a plan on this and the plan was we're going to intimidate everybody. we're going to go in and tell them printing after have peace, have peace talk. so we're going to stop reading them. i'm going to tell the russians you have to have a ceasefire in line to contact them or with us, but we're going to up. all right. do you print? so i still think i do not believe that donald trump or the people he's, he's, he's appointing his registration or are any less american exceptional, if they believe they can intimidate people, they believe that can terminate russia. and this is a meet the, the, the, not the number of the problem. but certainly even if donald trump himself has, and he does have, he goes back and forth on this. and the last person he talked to,

as we're saying, the deep state, the blog, the nato countries, the european countries, the conditions of, of ending this war that russia is going to accept our conditions that are a clear victory for russia can be hidden. and what they want to do is try and find some way to get rush it to a you know, give something up on that. not really do electricity with, with, with yeah, yeah, but, but jim, there's, there's a way around it. i think i've kind of solve this puzzle here. that's why we're calling it the ukranian puzzle here. what does that go back to drag o? is it words, matt, or phrases matter? what we should, you know, it shouldn't be who's going to be victorious, the ukrainians, victorious the russians victoria, as nato victoria's, that's the wrong way of looking at it. the way to look at it. and i'm addressing what jim just said here is a how do we bring peace back for every one?

now that is a way out for everyone involved. trump doesn't want to be the guy that last ukraine . we all know that mantra, but he couldn't, we, i brought peace to europe. that's the winning ticket drago. and i think this is what the firm industry lobrado said it's about shared european security. so if we have of you know, victors and losers, then we're off to the 2nd cold war. and as that's a given, there is no way to avoid it. if we are talking about the cost of the confrontation, there's also the freezing of the conflict would also be terrible. because at what point, marty, are we going to freeze the conflict? also, if we're, if we freeze the complex or we're going to have like a korea solution, because in that case the russians, the rush is going to actually be the losing side. because nita would still be in sumi, ensure to go, which is in the northeast of ukraine, and a missile. it would take 2 or 3 minutes to reach moscow from the area. so again, this would be a strategic defeat for russia. so there's no way that the russian would ever accept

any sort of, uh, freezing of the conflict of any of that sword. on the other hand, we'll, the russian also wants to be careful about not making nato looks like at last. because this with galvanized nato and they would essentially bring any, even more of these extremists and an expansionist empower in the alliance. so russia certainly wants to make sure that there is no new iron curtain of any time. russia wants to, you know, re establish connections with you and the best buy course is that some very optimistic care of. i would like to agree that you are right. i'd like to think that way. but garland, when this conflict comes to an end, and none of us know how it's going to come to an end, it won't be really over. okay. the sanctions will not come to an end. and it will be a new type of complex, a rum state from ukraine. i don't really know. okay. but the problem is if you're not looking to create peace, then all of these other problems will faster. that's why i started the program out

with means it'd be don't to address what was wrong there were it's just going to continue under a different name. garland. yeah, well, part of that is, but i'm glad you said that because we were part of a understanding how this conflict in is understanding that the ukraine project is not necessarily about. and crane ukraine is a political slash and military tool that used to work to weaken russia, so they can go after china and go after everybody. this is a tool for world domination. and if you the question, i think that the blogs going to have internally as well, can we not win on this one and still get world domination. so understanding that they're looking for world domination. the problem in the individual video think receives of this, um, a fine think a way out of this have to be viewed in the context of request to move the world. yeah. but garland this we spoke or before the recording here. i mean, what does it mean there? when you use the word had gemini, as indivisible. i mean,

either your head jermanti come or you're not. i mean, and that's the quandary. washington in the western world. this put itself in garland when one more thing. and that's it, and here's the important part. what the trump people have on their side is that the majority of the people in the united states agree with them. the majority of the people in europe went to return to a time when they had some level of economic prosperity. so while he will have a battle with the people in power who are trying to med fascist ideology, what the strength you will have is that the people will be saying, yeah, this is what we want, get it done. and the people in europe now, well retired. okay. do economic problems. that's the other casualty of the ukraine pot. uh, project gym. democracy just because the people want it, the people here in europe don't want this war. the people in america don't want this war, but i thought the election said consequences apparently not, jim. know, certainly not in france. certainly on the brand. yeah. everybody elected another

government? no, no, we're not going to do that. literally came out and said, we can't let elections, we, we trip, but elections, determine what we're going to do. so this is the situation we're in now, and that's what i say. you know, to whatever words we want to use it, i think the garland is right about, you know, the project of america is not to have peace in europe is to have domination of the world. and, and we have them words we, we get a little, we can avoid the word victory or as much as we want, but everybody's going to see it. and they've been saying that the european spa, especially, has been, are, gave me, i made a hold to that, thought jim, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with all the

russian states. never as tight as i'm sort of the most sense community best ingles, all sun set up the same assistance must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians cruising and split the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube, the fitness center for the question, did you fix a request for check the 1941, the radical right wing was stone,

shall be nice. ation seized power and form the independent state of croatia. the pull on 3 and the 10th. what's kind of a problem with a still a system of these 3. i got one of the main targets was to a historical sources say, because gosh, killed over 72000 children business it my god, they have done a well. he knows that that of course, i say, you know, they may have done one up front that we have just done with general just well a, b, c on that. and not even the germans themselves were horrified by the atrocities committed by the stash reflection of that. so for the election bill of only staying at a theme is that we saw on structure cost of the dice and not to allow me to say that they were restructuring the

welcome. next across stock were all things are considered on peter level to remind you we're discussing ukraine, the okay, when it go back to j. gym in pittsburgh. unfortunately, i had to cut you off who had to go to what break. but what you were saying is very interesting and again, going back to the word hegemony, it either you have it or you don't, and that is the dilemma. the west is created for itself and it's a bi partisan issue in the us. the elections don't have consequences when it comes to the empire here, but that's a craven choice. on the part of the west. russia wants security, and does it want victory? i suppose so, but they wants security. they want and security at mince a one and security in december 21. it wants security. now that is never changed.

but for the west, they need a strategic defeat of russia, which russia is denying. and that's the dilemma jim. well, i was going to say, look, when they invoke means, i think what they want to do is minutes, 3 or minutes before i think they think they can get the russians to go along with them on the basis of oh, that was buttons full that were there for, we'll be really good guys, we'll keep our word this time. you know, and i think you, i agree with you. i agree, but i, i, that's what they're going to go for. i agree. and unless they get that, if the fresher ends up with the 4 o less than premier and neutralize nato, everybody's going to know who won whatever word they went, they use, they use or not. and the europeans for 3 years have been saying we cannot allow that to happen or it's a loss. yeah. i see but, but, but, but, but jim, that is get an idea of logical choice. ok. it's not a real list choice. i mean, you know, i was a trained to story and up until 1945 great powers. sometimes what

a war sometimes said loss. okay. that's still, you know, that's what happened here. everything is ex essential. it's the oh it's, it's joseph burrell. in the garden. the garden is going to die. is that okay? with this whole mentality is cooling the garden. okay. i'm going way off rails here . ok, drago. which change gears here and be realistic about it. we can talk all we want about keith kelly and his initiative. maybe he'll meet with putin blah, blah, blah, who cares? but the russians are winning. they're moving forward. you can talk all about drums plan. but what if the russian to say, we're not really interested, we're going to keep going into we do not define demilitarize, which was the goal. so, i mean, is this a lot of empty talk? go ahead drago. no, no, certainly not. the reality on the battlefield says that's, that's precisely what's going to happen. just in the last 40 hours the russians took a 100 kilometers square kilometers and territories in the design. yeah, it's almost so what we see is there is

a russian military dominance and especially in artillery and these long range assistance. i just want to point out that the russians have approximately 7 to 10 percent tend to towards one in terms of artillery dominance and all data on military conflicts. in the last 200 years show that 80 percent of soldiers died to artillery. so just on just that fact alone should give you the idea of the casualty ratio of the training in the russian side. so this is unsustainable for the, for the ukraine's is the sample for nato, because ukraine is, are doing all the dying. but this, even, even nato cannot sustain this in terms of, of industrial warfare. and this is where russia also has a massive advantage and he's going to only be increased in the, in the foreseeable future. especially when the deliveries of north koreans are to resistance and munitions. so this is not going to change. you can only use that, can be exacerbated, coordinate, or sports. it's going to be better for russia. l. garland. what i hope for in all

of this is a strategic defeat for nato, because nato is the problem here. they knew we used to have the indivisibility of security. i don't know what happened to the west that was part of the helsinki process in the 1970s. everybody knew it. everybody agreed to it. they have to go back to it. and if they have to experience a strategic defeat then, so be a garland what one of the things we have issues we have here is that nato and the people who run in are at war with the people of their own countries. they are at odds with the people of their own countries. they are fighting them off and trying to stop them from getting what they want. i would suspect at some point, and this is a strong possibility. it donald trump says that the russians, all right, you made this offer. i will take it. that sounds good. let's try to go with that. the ukrainian say, oh no, we can't take that the. my 6 is of the world say no, we can take that and donald trump at that point says, okay, you guys will handle it, then we're out. we thought it was a good idea,

but you know what you guys handle it up? do what you got to do. we got other things to do with darling buddy. what's, what's the, there's one small problem with your argument. i wish i could agree with a trump got in page in peach for it. remember? yeah, but now ok. number one, the democrats at had the senate, he's got both how i said, very by part is a garland party. it's very bi partisan that's with so the problem matic about it. because again, as i've already mentioned, when you go to gym, i mean, no american, it's american presidents are always haunted, you know, losing china losing vietnam, losing this. and that even losing afghanistan didn't help biden. so, and this is a manager here. and plus, tim it's, it's a nice money making machine for a lot of people involved in it. okay. i mean, if you go to the meat grinder while you're on the losing side, but there are people are being made billionaires in care of now. jim. yeah. and,

and look up they, they've lost in afghanistan, as you say, they've lost in the vietnam with this, losing nato. know, this is another kind of loss. and they know what has defined it that way they've got, as you said, didn't have to, they didn't have to do that. that's what brussel brock obama said, hey, ukraine is not the crucial to us that push on the rush is not proof with us. with the united states since world war 2. and certainly since the dissolution of the soviet union fix itself was the world. and it was for us to put in a real offense when the world uh, in a real sense. but it keeps losing wars with those words, warrant is important. and this is a war that all of europe and all of nato have put it's, it's, it's goods and it's credibility into and that's going to be gone. so that's why, you know, if trump wants to walk away from it, so you may not getting pages, you may get shot. i mean, there, there are ways of dealing with this. and it's just that the deep state is,

is going to resist this. i mean, it's gonna be a lot of fighting about it because it's, it's expensive thing. but this going to be a lot of resistance in this. and i don't think trump is really capable of resisting that much. what do you want it to leave? fear of seriously one of the take american troop 7. serious. what did they do? they told them, oh let's keep your, let's not why they're there, but they're there for what happened that right now to keep serial destroyed. so someone will come up with something to tell, trump that you know, you can't be perceived as weak. you can be perceived as losing this battle withdrawal. i mean the with i was putting and sure he won't react on that basis. but whatever it is, i'll just say this is not, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. so resolution, that's actually going to be accepted by russia is going to go down easily in the united states. well they, they, they're the driver, the, the resolution will be on rushes terms, considering the conversation we've had, it's, you know, it's tough medicine for the west to swallow. they wanted this more,

they got this war, they destroyed ukraine. they damaged their own economies. and this is what you get for your hubris. go ahead. yeah, i mean, just what you said. so it's precisely what the, precisely, what's going to happen. whereas as my processors already said, no matter how you call it, it's going to be a strategic victory for russia. it's either that we're going to have nuclear war. there is no way around it. because if neither wins, or if we get a freezing of a call it, they will put missiles there and they said that they will, they, they, they set it in multiple times. they will put missiles there, whether they will be new operating work or they will be training operated doesn't matter what they are also talking about nuclear weapons for you, for the ukraine. so if that happens, then we have nuclear war in, in 30 minutes it's all gonna be over in 30 minutes. and i, i don't want to make it sound that is scare mongering. get it. it's not, it's, it's the fact that russia will be strategically defeated if this happens. and of course, russia can only respond on the strategic plan,

but at least with nuclear weapons against natal. and the decision making centers are not in kia, they're in brussels in washington dc. and this is what the rochester have said. so it's better for all of us if russia wins and ukraine, because then we will have a sort of like a said, cedric, let's say by ballast, it's going to be reminiscent of what we had to during the 1st floor. so i, i don't see any other outcome, you know, you know, garland grill and is already been mentioned here. i mean, nato goes on and on about its sovereignty. but the good states wants to take greenland away from denmark. i mean, isn't the not in sites a threat to the european members of nato now? i mean, you know, to, in one way or another. trump's going to get greenland? is anybody in europe going to protest as well? and again, what did donald trump's foreign policy when he talks about taking green then, and the panama canal shows 2 things. number one, it shows that it's on hinge, and a lot of that stuff i just dismissed donald. trump will say that kind of silliness

. and see everybody want you a girl, and we don't want, you know, to something they tow world calls. russia unhinged. okay. rush. it had a security threat on its border. it complained about it for 30 years, for god's sake. ok. now trump is good as able to take a slice of europe as i say this over the next year. internally, these politicians and in europe are going to be trying to survive. i mean look what's happening and re romania look what's happening with german elections. dear storm has got one foot and the political brave and the other on a pat device. they're going to be trying to survive internally as their economies collapse. and people are going to be screaming, but russian energy so they can get back on their feet. so they're got 2 wars. yeah, they want to deal with russia, but they're going to be dealing with internal theory for, for quite a while. you know, you know, tim, um, speaking of cheap russian energy, it's never going to go to europe again. the united states flew up the pipeline. why

should russian take another chance? why? why, why should they treat for x and changes like a better game for europe is over? it's gone. go ahead, jim. well, that's, that's a good point. and europeans don't seem to european governments at least, don't seem to understand the gravity of that is you say it's like the men screaming . why should we do it again? if you blow it up. so the relationships and this is the point that this, that russia has been trying to say. and the, the agreements they offer to december of 2021 the we need to have a security architecture that is from comprehensive and everybody's concerns are, are met in the united states and they don't just blew it off. they just print, we're not interested in this talking like this. we, we want to run the world. what we, what we want to take over your printing and you're going to just let us do that. and it's been a, this has been going on as just as we all know, since at least 2014, you know, for himself was criticized all over the place for not being more aggressive about

this another. not recognizing that the done does for public, for 8 years. yep. and just at the last minute. so we know that the russian regime, the russian government putting has been risk averse. they've been trying to avoid a war. but here it is. and i think now pretty sure, or even though i'm not rushing, but i'm pretty sure they're not going to be. they're not going to swallow this again. they're not going to go for one of these. all right, gentlemen, gentle. i know it's a fascinating discussion, gentlemen, but we have run out of time. i'd really appreciate it. and of course i want to thank our guests and watching in pittsburgh and in serbia. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. so you next time, remember prospect the

of wanted to come here since i was 121. my grandfather told me that his mom came from russia that we were, i was part russian. i didn't plan on staying this long. i was gonna look around. i was gonna see if it was for me, but then i came. and then i was like, i don't remember when i go home, i've never been happier in life than i am here in most of the i've only lived here a few months, but i wanted to tell you what fascinates me about russia and share the stories of other foreigners who lived here like jay who worked as a chef and now raises goats and makes cheese in the countryside series, like chad who has been granted political asylum because he's being persecuted by the f. b. i. us, embassies. and for countries that come after me it's, it's wild like an american family that recently moved to russia with 6 children. i've never felt safer atlanta higher life than living here. the,

the, the russian aviation officials confirm the bike john allies plain the press. the old christmas day did try to land in chechnya, for the spring was close secure to you prayed in trying to track the aircraft commander made 2 attempts to land the plane and grows ne, which was unsuccessful. the commander was offered other apples. he decided to go to act out apples to election in coming off to a cale tech team on the job. and parliament is officially dissolved sputtering and nadia no confidence both in the traffic like governments, the nation's present in him. the foreign interference could be blamed this field position with the bubble shell revelations about idea of.