hello and welcome to wells. a part of the middle east has always been a land of fast shifting sands. but over the last couple of weeks, the jo, political landscape of the region has changed so much that it wouldn't be main stakeholders seem to have been caught on where's, who is a winning, who's losing as for how long will to discuss it. i'm now joined by correct me right . a former british diplomats. mr. mary is great to talk to thank you very much for your time. thank you very much for invited me. now. i bet it's hard to surprise us susan diplomat, especially given the so many up he was in the region over the last couple of years in the last couple of decades. but i think even by the current spenders of unpredictability, the passing here has been printed dramatic for the middle eastern region. what surprised what strikes you the most about the year 2024 to it's being spectacular and disastrous and, and of course the,

the continual under cut and we should never forget is they the genocide which is ongoing and in gaza and fits become so common place to become so accustomed to seeing images of the dead children and destroyed hospitals and torture doctors, the division of danger. we lose sight of having multiple that isn't how, how terrible it is. but that does kind of don't steadly. i decided that bus us to go i so i wanted to try to get into gossip is no way to do it. i applied for permission to get into the west bank. and when you get commission, somebody is a means who have to give you permission to pass through. so i went out to lebanon a couple of months ago to cover the war in lebanon. and then of course, city a dropped it. so if it's any of a moving targets in terms of what's happening across the middle east, at the moment, we're really much of the middle east as

a place. uh huh. let me focus on the uh, on the rounds in syria for the time being because the future of that state is pretty on certain. um with israel. 6 and tour kit expanding their hold on uh, serious surgery um many intelligent services across the entire region and perhaps around the world are trying to figure out where things are likely to move from here on or was there also lots of atrocities happening there as well. what's your take, what's your intention on how the future of this land, the future of this country is likely to of all i think we are in for a prolonged period off of war. and we had the most extraordinary coalition of power was combined. so to pull the current government into pilot and in city of we had over stay on the face of this, we have to create a b, nighted states and israel who were very involved and have been involved loan to

been promoting these particular do you have just a kite by says on those levels and but then we have of course also have the gulf states cuts out in particular, which have been funding them long term as well. and we've seen this extraordinary of somebody is to get a hold of apparently defending interest. steve, the tax wants to be able to attack the goods in this area and also to take to, to in the goals and take effective control of a level which they've done. the americans of puddling conflict with the to accept the codes because the americans are being bucking the codes. but the american primary aim is to maintain control over the long fields of city and in the north and east, which they have achieved. israel has taken a great deal more land,

but the land which israel has occupied in syria. but in the last couple of weeks, it is 3 times the size of the gaza strip is to put it into context and the gulf states of, of the deductible. if they wanted, which is a extreme select for so many government in city of which we will close, we will see become increasingly until events as the days go by. but mr. murray isn't that also? what's paradoxical about this whole situation there, old norman, the allies, but they all have and huge appetites, and yet each of them achieving something for itself. uh, put them sort of on the uh, the longer hats with the own allies. for example, cherry k, saudi arabia, or turk, in the united states. now, lots of packet one by one. i want to start with the, with the american and western interest. and i somewhat surprisingly noticed that western media for now have been a rather restraint than the commentary i part from perhaps trying to re brown tie

up to create. i shot a bony speed or to hide his group as a sort of cause i see the organization a cnn around a very formally looking interview with the leader. i've been with my mother delani talking about the inclusion building of institutions and overall adopting this political western language. what do you make of this re branding dressing? it's all center. and what they're saying is the tries to achieve. think there's a certain authenticity could pin that i think the western powers have good and small number of leaders of the movements of july and the himself of course being the obvious one who are willing to act as western puppets in exchange for power and who quite possibly is personally, the willing not to adult the kind of extreme violence.

islam is totally just agenda, but he, he was following when he was with outside the nicest. it's perfectly possible uh, the tea himself. the next things for high load and wealth, and all of those things has dropped is a deal to j. i'm just taking a different path, right? so with us, the 10s of thousands of this, many of them, a week goes and respects, and texans and base with carfax, and there is other nationalities who followed him into damascus loop. you know, consists of, is by taking post. well, whether they are willing to drop them 60 minutes, let us the agenda is a very different question. indeed. as far as russia is concerned, i think this is a very pressing see security challenge, according to some estimates, up to 30 percent or higher create some fighters are professional decide is they

come from central asia and you know, they don't have any particular allegiance to political power transition in syria there and just there for hire. plus, as we all know, there are also tons of thousands of former isis fighters held in jails under curtis control in eastern syria. so if all of that force guest lose, i think ok, that's some point may, may indeed seem like a moderate organization. and it is inexplicable to it to the russians that the lease is that kind of force not considered a threat. them the west is there believe that they can somehow be controlled or we dictated that some should understand it better than anybody? because of course, this was the western play book about drawing, progressing, occupation of afghanistan, the west impacts wires against the west beach. i believe it's london bombings and $911.00. and although you know all the consequences, so, you know,

it's hard for the russians to believe that there was the memories so sure that there must be some sort of a plan over wished very seldom learns the history of the united kingdom, for example. because now when they did ask amazon full times in history and it's being defeated at the time, but it doesn't stop and doing it from time to time, but it's learning some history is not, is not a strong points of a, of west impala placement. and this little boom and i'm going to play it. it's going to lead to a revival of interest in the extreme islamic fanaticism uh, in of islamic terrorism. and i think the well con, i'm pretty certain. so, you know, speaking to my own, my diplomatic contacts, that the west plan, certainly the business plan, which they would've been given by the americans, is that the,

the immediate idea will be to target these mercenaries and explain to you how this whole new rock of to send them into a rock to take on the sheer melisha and which bill they support the comments about the government and but essentially they, they will look to the purpose them introduce starting the big the rockies civil law in order to take a sort of a control the rock that i'm to get somebody to city fund time, my guess is as a and they are liable to want to stick together as a fighting force. and i'm leasing them on see a militia in iraq would seem to me the a on the way. but the west will seek to dissipate the energies if you like to something new, something in the way, which is still helpful to western interests because of cost of the reality of

policies. i've been trying with the success to beside the united states military to leave the rock for some time. the funds, the tail center, rock hope to see medical administrative testing stuff. uh huh. now you've been following the situation. i'm galvan and of course the collapse of the syrian government has many implications for the conflict there because syria was used as the main logistical corner door for her mouse and the other a pull this thing infections. and i remember the house on the thrall of the former secretary general of his buller saying before he was assassinated by israel. that without syria there would be no palestine. what do you think is likely to happen both to the palestinian aspirations of the palestinian teacher that is born out of those frustrated aspirations. but then you must be said the full halt. city a is. it is all stuff, all the be access, so desist and stickers, they put, put,

call them to use technology, the supply lines to hezbollah affectively because all the time we shouldn't forget the, the, uh, the people who and i have the government to attend damascus of the absolute estimates of hezbollah and helping fighting the principal. and if i touch the be located by israel, well is little with sheltering them in the shadow of the goal on heights when they were defeated by russia and city, a decision of civil war. and they were with cookies, degree must be located up know of 2 to 8 live, but his beloved paid paid to the lots posts and moved to feed them besides so vast full and enemies of husband, so that the 10 sworn enemies, i've been wrong. so there is no way they're going to a live the continued supply called homes, to city a to, to has the last tell me wrong. and it's worth noting,

but one of the very 1st may just statements, many biofuel on the off to who took power was to say that the enemies of his beloved underground. no, it's so the, so this, this is an isabel send it, this is effectively design is government says i'm farming so much of what's happening is crazy. and i know some of it by side by says i'll try to. but so i have this, the government may sound strange, but on the other hand, people should ask themselves why it is, but i says on those, uh, okay, the never ever ones in the history attacked is very little any, is a, the interest they've been sponsored by is a little from day one, but mr. mary, uh, i do repeat my question though, what they're saying that leaves uh the palestinian aspirations of statehood and you know, all the harsh feelings associated with the not being treated as human beings. i think sadly, of the genocide and in casa is,

so that's an advanced stage. nobody really knows how many of the population have died, but there's no longer the be able to start to, to support life file play in, in gaza. i think we will see a the is very nice month to be, i'm excited. some hope gaza barely quite soon. but in the westbank, people live under the by listing an apology, which i never thought i would see his, somebody who, you know, use to support the thought to that's i'm, i'm i, i never thought i would say, but publish student the policy become open, leave a tool as well, but that's what has become the case. but training is those 2 state solution buttons, but the cannot be up to the state. so there's some, there's not enough left to for a city and state. garza is demolished, the westbank has seen the settlements every day. settlements expanded in the west

bank. the man to the west bank on the effective colour, stadium control is a minority of the area under the sink. some things, some sinks and things like a water is also is negative, cold to land on the posting and control sitting can drink from countries through this lump similarly is increasingly occupied. so the, the idea of a 2 state solution is that, let's stop here on this very sobering note, but to go back to the discussion in a few moments. but for now we have to take a short break station. the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to do vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few. fractured images presented is 1st. can you see through their illusion

going underground? can the, if you think about russia, what does your mind picture the bottom landscapes open up before your lines? the last one, just imagine the veto. scott starts the journey, the the you ready to come along

the welcome back. to wells the parts vis pregnant. right. a former british diplomats missing the right before the break. we talked a lot about israel. the who for now seems to be the main beneficiary of what's happening in syria. there been some estimates that up to 80 percent of the serious military infrastructure has been destroyed on the israeli tanks and out positions within the the 18 kilometers of the syrian, the capital on me. all know what israel takes, it rarely returns. do you think it will stop there or do you think it would go perhaps further? because i've heard somebody's real officials now opened them using about the mass because being part of a, supposedly great israel. what do you think it will stop? really hard to see where it will stop because it's very hard to say what can stop

them. the problem is nobody in the immediate medium has any kind of a defense against. is there some wild be, is there any um, it has proven to be pretty effective in, in, in grounds, going back to in southern lebanon. the example of its ability to just pound policies into submission to me to supply this cost by the united states in germany . is on charlotte and just uh, and that's what we saw in the lab. and then it's not just in city of israel. thing he has no intention of leaving goes pups of southern lebanon that is occupying up and will almost set. they expand the, the, the, in the new. yeah. i think people have to understand, but the, the great to is the project is very bill. it's not a concept. it's very bill. and those of us with being telling people of by to do the and i've seen the deadline is in real time wave. but expand some into garza

into syria, into lebanon's land. and the world has to decide whether it's prepared to put up with this the, the aggressive colonialist expansionist power, which has a cause to assist bassist dotson because that's what, that's what we're facing, the middle east and it's very, very scary. and the moment because the west and world seems blinds to the dangers of punctuating such thoughts and extreme and deal legit. this is all right. let me play the devil's advocate for a moment because i do agree with your characterization as of as really politics and policies. and you have the parts of me when i look at what, what's happening uh, in the region and then the old be had a sports moving around them, the fears that many christian and um, you know, other minorities in the region have done part of me sort of understands why some of

them would appeal to israel for some sort of a protector. it do you think it makes sense for israel to try to be the guardian of those communities? it's not on the humanitarian then on your cynical, jo, political purposes. a big store today. so the goal, because i've, i've, i've been tooling around southern lebanon and visiting churches and schools and other institutions, increasing villages, which means they, oh, has boned and destroyed quite deliberately and but so, but israel has wines. i'm the southern committee, many christian communities in southern lebanon. i visited wong church, is they'll bones, contin 15. i'm guns workers who were using the totes as a temporary headquarters during the emergency and who were killed that on the respite. so it didn't go is, of course we have seen israel destroyed,

cook says new to me. i'm just starting hospitals of gone back to student china to some. so the idea of it is there has any sympathy for christy. i'm gonna tell you always and $0.90 a, a possible spencer. the both the christian communities is, is nonsense, and i would say i in 11 and i lived for 2 months in, inside one of the existing communities in lebanon. and only if i, 10 to 15 percent of the system minority in lebanon, i would take the view, but they support is among christians in lebanon. the vast majority of them to test as to what is, is doing but all the hist for historic reasons, the pockets of the things, the fax, the fax is kristi and organizations which do support as well. but they, they up, in no sense, a representative, but the majority of the kristi and population. now there is another norman,

the american la, who is it seem to expand as greatness in syria. and i'm of course, talking about turkey, which uh, you know, who is, officials are now openly discussing. i left for being a part of a oh, dad, greater uh country. um, do you think now is a good moment for the church to try to make the political fantasies the reality? most of us have be in the the really taking the back by the open expensive is on top of the tax and the extent to which it is um, has the minds of pretending have you. i feel like because he had done so much uh, apparently would work in promoting the color sting and goals, but the exact polls put it as a in the background all the time. but he was quoting,

took his expansion into syria. i don't imagine we will see any formal annexation of, of city inland by turkey. both we will see, i think, continued took his minutes ago to baseman defacto pinto of hope, the less oh, and a great deal more of the north by, by turkey. i don't think you're going away any time soon. when i see all this competition for gray, there is a real or great, a tricky part of me sort of, um its frozen because uh, i think will be recent conflicts have told great powers that they have to be extremely careful about the, you know, binding, what they can to and i think that's one of the reasons you don't see the russian army and marching on key for beef because it doesn't want to deal with that kind of a situation. this is one of the reasons why perhaps iran and russia pulled back and didn't stand to defend the assad government. do you think both israel and turkey

have the resources, the military resources which are strategic resources, the soft power resources to not only occupied the land, but a deal with the consequences of occupation and hopefully bring some sort of a settlement lasting piece to those plans. he certainly has the military ability to do so. um, but the cost, but as a big deal of a resentment among other people's got the idea of being billed again by the took so who are in effect the full amount, imperial power, they may try to. they will certainly try to occupy as much opportunities populate to touch as late as they can. um is fail so well never been p c. israel is a snow supremacist all village joseph tempest, a state which is as many they respected organizations have pointed. i just found it on, on the principle of, of, of pot side. and it only knows violence and,

and do guy. so the great what it is, but what does collapse and it is close to them. so we are, we all know, seeing an extreme solid fist government extolled it installed and in damascus, we're seeing israel dropping alter $0.10, attempting to live peacefully with the palestinians. and instead of being intent upon the extermination, understand this month of allowed to billy joseph chemist spent so late cultivation and a multi ethnic city and multi religious multi so me know, societies of j beyond us, it in the, in the middle east. and as soon as you alluded to earlier, the christian community is which solving old just come in just into and this is in the well, which are with some fittest young and say the originator. they are the ones that

greatest and just on kind of developed. now i think the hi renee of this whole situation is that there is also another 3rd group of another in the american allies, a west and allies like saudi arabia and the united arab emirates. it zipped quite not very excited about seeing syria being divided between israel on one hand on turkey on it's uh, muslim brotherhood proxies. on the other hand, do you think washington or west more generally can still be an effective med mediator among all its allies. and there are competing appetites, it's always very difficult to you understand the motivations of the gulf states. um, on the one hand you have the religious motivation in which they are very keen to say sony is love and particularly so i have some of those i'm and what have isn't they? oh, and that because some of a sudden pulmonology of interest in this,

in this case with the most of the types in the, in the city or on the other hand of those countries, the old govern by booming a gates which are not very popular with public comes out dependent upon united states, military support and security. so the support handling is a security service support in order to stay and pilot against the own the people, the so the, the business continual balance go and that's moving a lead split. the interest is in personal finance, javascript. so, but any kind of a global jo strategy. so the you've calling to consider the of the gulf states in terms of normal geo politics. them, but they are very, very strange entities. i only have time for one more question. uh, my perception, i placed is that russia, china,

a number of other countries are sort of pulling back and letting regional actors resolve this global, perhaps letting the united states deal with all its competing allies. and the, i wonder if you think that's an exception because we want to use to the other way around, you know, re powers intervening. trying to, you know, expand their influence as russia deep, let's say in 20122013. and later on, do you think that's the way your politics will be practice from now on, you know, region know, uh after is having a free hand that doing whatever they want to do, or do you think great powers will come back to the table and try to observe the implants in some shape or form. thank you. i think it's a great mistake. i understand the size of cost p occupied with you paying the $100.00 spending a pretty major. there's also a particular military. there's also is an in u. k. a,

china has always avoid that involvement in, in conflict, away from it shows, but i think china and russia h to be more involved in the making of a dangerous mistake by not being more involved. but if you listen to any of this occurred to cancel debates call on the fundamental least over the last few months fits with chinese engrossing delegates, so could speak the most sense, china and also so there may be pulling that pilot on the spot and turn that in particular, so be existing it's muscle, not particularly like a normal muscle falls. country is particularly united states, so of which kind of holds emilia. killian's hope, the united states that to behaving the more responsible way. because otherwise it really is a disc biscuit. go definitely out of hand and possibly into nuclear war. so, so i'd love to see china and russia be more associated and didn't post some

authority on the situation. well, mr. marie, i guess we will have to wait and see what the next year will bring in terms of the grades, power involvement. then there joe political responsibilities, but for now we have to leave it there. thank you very much for sharing your analysis. thank you very much. and thank you for watching hope to hear again on was a part of the

the breaking news in all the by john's president state that the country is paying the crest on wednesday was sent in the fine act on the ground of the attributes of the incident deep, clean and good. at that time, ukrainian drones were launching terrorist attacks on civilian infrastructure. the aircraft come on, i made 2 attempts to land the plane in groves any which were unsuccessful. the south koreans grieved for their loved ones. also, besides the price of a boeing 737, thank suppliers of a 179 people on.