seymour hersh wrote about the warning, suggesting that the us did just enough to take a box regarding a warning of sorts, but not enough to save any lice and rushes you in a box and a probably summed up the entire situation best greatly so you wouldn't ukraine is now turning into a blatantly terrorist state, thanks to supplies of western made artillery shells and long range missiles. do ukrainian armed forces are attacking civilian targets inside russia. so as ukraine's malignant influence has no seen from the hill to syria, maybe the west will finally wake up to the reality of what it is created and a supporting in ukraine. sadly, it's unlikely, and it seems key of can do as it pleases wherever it pleases. i'm once it works against russia, it's a like the west, and sponsors will stop them any time soon. always a pleasure to have you company here. i don't see international that. so for me, for today, so i'll do both. okay, we'll be here with all the latest news updates in 30 minutes. have a great day, the

the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. and peter lavelle, nato says the line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine, but instead be focused on sending more weapons the cube again, the alliance demonstrates it can never entertain plans for peace and stability as well as security for all in the meantime,

the slaughter continues the cross locking nato. i'm joined by my guess. scott ritter in del mar is a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector. in salt lake city. we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. and in san francisco, we cross to jack rus moves. he is an associate professor of economics at st. mary's college, as well as the author of the scourge of neo liberalism, or a gentleman, cross talk roles in effect. that means it can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. let's go to 1st. the scotts scotts in washington dc. scott, you're usually in delmar, but you're in washington. why to washington? because the, today we are closer to a nuclear or between the united states and russia at any time in the nuclear. this is a far more dangerous situation,

then the cuban missile crisis. and if something isn't done to alter the trajectory that the united states is currently on with russia, there is a not just possibility, but probably of a, of a nuclear war. so on saturday, i will be moderating a, a, an event at the national press club of we're gonna have 3 panels of distinguish speakers talking about the danger of nuclear war and talking about what can be done to, to get congress to, to take action, to put pressure of the, by the ministration between now and january, 28th, and also what could be done to get the trump transition team to speak out forcefully against this policy. specifically the use by ukraine of america and provided american targeted attack him dismissals. the united states is a party to this conflict. we are actively attacking rush as we speak. i'll say it one more time. so your audience is very clear of this. the united states is

attacking russia. this is an act of war. and if we continue to do this, russia has every right to respond in kind which could lead to direct conflict between united states and russia, which will inevitably become a nuclear war. so we're trying to stop this. this is what i've tried to do this coming saturday. well, i commend you and i hope it gets as much coverage as possible. i will do my best. obviously, david and salt lake city on the back of what scott decided which is very important . is it in the, in the media? is it we get it? we're getting dribs and drabs right now of what of the a bite and the outgoing by the administration is leaving the incoming trump administration. we know the cast of characters we have. we've had a general keith kelly. we j. d vance. rick right now. um. okay, fine. but the thing is i'm reading particularly like from bloomberg and quote, ukraine seeks a sustainable piece. well,

it's what she expects the same stressing that temporary resolutions would not serve us. so ukrainian interest, this is a theme that we keep going over and over and over to russia, has interest to rush is involved in this here. but we constantly see plans being made really with the explosion of russia. it's, that's not going to work. go ahead and salt lake city, you know, you're absolutely right. if you're, when uh, you know, it's difficult when a power is, there's no countries winning a war there and it wants to get this the term. so in this case, russia has been one even more of the last 2 or 3 years. i think gas uh no longer debatable. and you know, as a result, you prayed in the us, i have to accept a piece piece agreement terms that are minimally acceptable to the russian federation. and so that, that's really the key that's been missing all this talk about nato membership being pushed back. that's completely unacceptable to russia. the idea of the week that we

would send data peacekeepers to patrol a dmc that i me that is that on arrival, there's no way that the present person would accept that. so you know, the key, the key to you praise security is, is not being align with west because we prefer not capable of providing for their security. a few brain is lost. 38 percent of its population since 2014 mostly refugees and its economy is it has been destroyed. it's critical infrastructure has been destroyed. it's notorious, been wiped out with a 1000000 casualties, which 400000 or debt. and the only way you can have security is through a friendly relations with russian federation. well as it did from 1991 to 2014. yes . but see yeah, it's go to jack and san francisco. that's why i have long argued the day this started ukraine loss because the european pan, your pain security order had been destroyed, did bits and patters right now. and that is because of nato,

that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re thing when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. i don't think uh, nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent of several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some time, some terminal battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the appointments recently looked like a retread, neal. cons, i mean you got waltz, do not work, or you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in

a most lovely trump appointments that was supposed to shake up the deep state. uh, you know, i walk through right now and uh, i don't, i get bought tons uh much positive here. uh. as i said, they may try to begin negotiations of some kind, but that will be to justify. uh, uh, further uh, arm shipments to say, well, we gotta negotiate from a position to strength. clear. so we gotta really post the ukraine, but you know, you can send all the weapons you want. uh, but if uh ukraine is losing reserves in the you know, the quality of the new recruits is such a, it's not going to make much difference just based on the more weapons and with scott also in the same kind of media particularly bloomberg seems to have a corner on the market right now there was mention of, but of course the carrots and sticks will be needed. i think we've had enough sticks with this. that's why we need to resolve this complex. again, you know this,

this is a, it's like a, a self licking ice cream cone. you, this is, it's all hermetically, close there. and plus, there's no communication with the russian federation at all. i mean, how can use that even think about negotiations? let's go back to the premises, the you discussed with your other guess of united states data or not looking for a piece. the current policy of the united states has to see the strategic defeat of russia using the ukranian proxy. conflict is the principal tool of the stabilisation. that is the official policy as united states and nato. so everything that's being done right now is not designed to be in opposition to the policy, but to recognize the difficulties of the current situation and try to mitigate that gets to feed by creating contain. but what we're looking at right now with all these talked about peace is not about normalize relations. creating good relations

is about containing russia about trying to limit the scope and scale of the russian victory to keep it temporary in nature until some future day when the russian gate does not reverse the ukrainians are straight up honest about this. so the trump administration has to understand that any success with russia, because i agree with your, your, your, your guess this is a non starter i, i can't speak on behalf of the russian government. indeed, just simply a period of the show was going to very budget irritate the of the i, which is prevent, prohibited me from speaking to you to our team, to anybody in the russian government. but i don't care who the but the fact is, we're not about normalize relations. we are about containing russia. and if we don't start off the truck, the administration started off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by ceasing this attack on russia, but by openly say that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia.

because that's the, that's the, that there is a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia, russia will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy who's trying to defend you? what you need to do therefore, is defeat the enemy, which is what russian is doing on the battlefield. a new, great. yeah, david, the way the it's being reported. yeah. you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration, which of course is trying to make the situation as worse as possible. that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that because we, we are outside of a few programs like this and a judge nap where scott appears quite often. people do know that history means one to but we're not going to do number 3, that's not an on the cards. go ahead, dave,

as well means great was the assemble agreement. you know russia committed there and drop there and ask for it for a pre. were you creating territory over there now for a structure likely would have been next the, the drop off people through complex. but that still would have left 93 percent of the brands in or nationally recognize territory for any control. so they had a tremendous opportunity to have a win win piece agreement back in march 2012, 22. and the final step horse drawn to the retail it so i don't think divided restoration is interested in these they're, they're trying to rush up the world present to, you know, truck with the, with a hard to sabotage. is there a sincere attempt? and the more i think truck will be successful in, uh, you know, 14 a ceasefire that ends ends. the warranty crane. i'm a little bit more skeptical that he'll be willing to immediately entertain peace terms that are, you know, a long term piece terms that are acceptable to russia. yeah. by disappointment, in general, can walk through the problem or the but the problem with that is i'll go and go

back to jack in san francisco. is it a ceasefire? isn't the solution here that doesn't solve the security problems that the, the european cotton and faces right? now i cease fire a truce. it's not going to work for the reasons, but it's got just a numerated. go ahead jack before we go to the break. yeah, i don't think david minuses fire. i, i think they want another formula for continuing to conflict. maybe at a, at a lower intensity here. the us, uh, you know, the neo cons don't leave. they have to be asked to be driven out the, there's no solution to this through a negotiation in a compromise and ok, it's all over. let's go home. no, they'll stay in no fight in some way and that's what they're searching for. right now, they're searching for some new a new arrangement where the, the war can be continued under the. yeah. but that, that wouldn't mean not going right back to the beginning of the program,

wisconsin. that would mean escalation. well gentlemen, we don't have much further to go before you're at the ultimate escalation, jack. i mean, 10 seconds before we go to the break deck. uh. yeah, well uh, i don't think they want the further escalation unless they can. uh, you know, more uh russia into using tactical moods. i think that's with, well i, i think they have to, they've taken care of that, what weapon care category and we'll get to talk about that in the next part of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato and ukraine. stay with our team, the one with the for wonderful, those little and so forth. us national move images on some ground squared ma'am on . that's why little do you plus, you only watch the daily words you're telling which isn't going to is the nearest.

when i go and still able to start using the thumbs here it is still bothering you. but let me hear when you push the issue of the unbox remodeled and move up this to move 0 easy lives, mysterious. and when you go i didn't finish the deal is make up the cell. i don't yeah. post the by the other was like if i use the yeah, i'm just thinking and then you slice that. i mean 50, i good. i maybe cause it please go ahead and i'll just communicate that. maybe we can go up national minds, but it just those we have the we have such all push mojitos to eulu most video in space, but i don't think you will definitely see those funds will really tell the but your move in would you spend these, these pretty you particularly see i'm saying is that, but then you've got thrown images through one and then the other will be missing. the gunslinger, some list of worst of movies is always in my hands. not old on the side of me, seeing it's

a lot that was up and that sort of the welcome back to across the court. all things are considered on people about 2 months. we were discussing nato n ukraine. the let's go back to scott in washington. you know, for all the talk of, of negotiations and getting a team together and the point person on all that, scott, at the end of the day, this is going to be dealt with on the battlefields, is that's the only because of the, the type of people that are being involved in this here. i mean, what they mean kelly is what they mean. he and he's been doing this for like 70 years or something. i mean people don't change. okay. and that's why it's good to

be settled on the battlefield. scott, you know, i, i believe that again, i don't pretend to have any insights in the russian government thinking i don't speak on behalf of the russian government. that's the little aside for the f b i who's watching this that's just my assessment. after years of studying the russian government, this russian government, they haven't done what they've done here. they didn't initiate what they called military technical meetings, back in february of 2022, just to throw it all away. people need to understand that russia has committed to a course of action that will only hit this is an extra stipulation for russia. that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians and russian policies. this is an extra central issue in russia has committed the national survival of russia to this conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to throw it away. anything less than a g b. the outcomes that they have articulated, which is no nato membership, demilitarization of ukraine,

the notification of ukraine. anything less than that is a strategic defeat for russia, therefore, unacceptable to russia, and the less needs to understand that, that in pushing russia to this good, remember this conflict didn't begin in february 22. this conflict began well prior to 2014, but it took its current form in 2014, and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think permits one was? what do you think vince 2 was? what do you think the russian effort to of to insert draft treaties in december of 2021 way. go. what do you think the 1st negotiation phase post conflict was to get to minutes? 3 in this, of all, over the effort to avoid this very situation. but the west refused to cooperate. the west refused to negotiate. in russia now is fully committed, fully committed to achieving the outcome. it's says,

must take place for russia to survive. this is an extra central struggle, that's why i think any talk of negotiation, freeze cease, fire is a non starter because it would be russia basically say we lost it versus not losing their winning on every phase of this conflict, militarily, economically, politically, well, you know, gave a tender thing that again, so many people in the west of failed to understand because they're not told, is that this is an x, a central threat for russia. but for nato, this is a choice. this is a craving choice rush. it does not threaten nato's security, but nato threatens russian security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does the threatened native security today. we didn't do so before the war. that's that well actually it was created so is attacking russian territory. that is a threat is russia attacking nato territory?

no, it is, it, it's not the same thing. you can't, they, you can't pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah, you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been a fairly demonizes that as the dresser. this was not enough for vote progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in modern history. and you know, cause want a pc spent 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess that full threat of data on ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war, russia has had peace terms that were mostly reasonable and would create the situation for adjusting last newbies. you know, the real solution is, is on. it's on the negotiating table. you know, we need an u. s. needs indigo. she kind of a new and talk with, with russian artist the dates on it and taught where the us and russia,

because strategic partners to support the peace and stability throughout the world . but especially in europe. and we can do that by reading to uh, you know, getting the war on drugs. so russia, pulling back all us troops, 20000 us troops from eastern europe, withdrawing all of our nuclear weapons from, from europe, wisdom reciprocal reciprocal concessions on the russian side. and then restoring full diplomatic and traits last week we should have a free trade treaty with, with russia. we should have a, you know, totally engagement. we should, we should give them a sphere of influence. and you know, all the former soviet republics except for the baltic states and in return they can give us your thoughts, it in, in western the western hemisphere. but uh, i think uh, the advantages of hope you're is the premium is a champion apiece. uh president trump is a chair going to be is these pick some, some neo cons? some very good want to america 1st in service, but also some new accounts that don't want peace. and i think he's going to get

very frustrated with those new context. and he's going to push their arms and make them agreed, you know, accept the terms that are acceptable to, to moscow. yeah. well, i had a jack in san francisco. i think they died from day one. uh, the uh, the, the deep state or the bureaucratic state, the permanent state. they are going to turn ukraine in to donald trump's biggest nightmare. and we already see it happening because jack with the ideas that david just a numerator on rock are good ideas. i couldn't disagree carpet being paid for doing any of them, jack to yeah, well, you know, uh, this is not just the conflict in ukraine. uh, i wrote an article in january 22 before the hot war began entitled 10 reasons why the us, they want russia to invade ukraine. there's a lot to be game for the empire by initiating, continuing this war. you know, before the war

a us was losing as well as was there later on. well now they've totally, you know, captured, recaptured nato again. and one of the main objectives of the war, i think, was the drug, russia out of western europe economically. and the us to, uh, you know, penetrate into europe and take over the energy reading some of the other industries . well, the u. s. a. empire has been totally successful. the amount objective. there's other objectives as well involved with before. not just defeating russia on the ground, and that's one reason why i think they're going to continue this conflict in some shape or other even under trump. well, i mean a good. yeah, i think this is going to be with us all for a very long time. it's interesting, jack, what you said, i mean the united states is very kind to its allies, isn't it? i mean, they destroy its energy infrastructure. it wrap it in place and sag nation, and this is all because you're a member of nato. it's really remarkable. scott: i'll bet you i'm not a really a betting man, but whatever outcome there is,

it's good to go back to the diplomatic notes that russia sent to the united states and to nato in december before the february of 2022, with god. that's the roadmap. and they're going to refer back to it. i bet you anything they're going to do that, scott. you know, i think you're a 100 percent correct? um the, the, you know, at the time of rushes submitted these draft treaties to nato, into the united states. so they were marked in western circles, is unrealistic of what is russia think they're doing? because the perception was the rush was operate from a position of weak us. so today, i don't think anybody's thinks that russia's operating from a position of we just had these draft documents suddenly become an extraordinarily well fraud out pieces of diplomacy that could create a european security framework that could engender the kinds of stability that was

spoken of that has a western sphere of f once a russians fear of life, importance, and not a of, in, in the 2 sites, not being in conflict. but here's the problem. nato does the rush is a threat in russia. it is a threat that because russia threatened state of but because nato has defined its very existence as being predicated on a need to confront russia next, essentially. therefore, the failure to defeat russia has led to a situation where data is in danger of collapsing. you know, you speak of the united states coming in and disrupting of the european economy to take it over. good. congratulations, america you did. it did in the united states, predict the rise of a alternative for deutsch lab. and the fact that if it lands and it's heavy on a trajectory of victory, jeremy withdrawal from the you, which means jeremy with drugs of data, that's not what the united states wanted. did they predict the parliamentary outcome in france now that protest tried to avoid, but he kept his government,

the government's collapsing now of pro peace. the sympathetic russian parliament might come in the united states and predict that europe is devonne. busy the collapsing re defining itself. and so that's the only reason why these russian draft, these may not be viable anymore because they were drafted with a strong unified your in mind. i don't think you're a big sister anymore and i don't think it's going to exist. so there's going to have to be of russia in the united states for to this out. i think europe is baseball. no 5 itself. i absolutely agree here. you know, it's interesting, scott, the, you know, they, they, they, they, you had all the variables, the sanctions and the oil embargo, all they had, all of these things figured out except for o. democracy. they didn't take that into account and now it's coming. a blow black, i'm blowing back at them. david, you know where is maggot and all of this?

i'm really quite bewildered. ok. the trump ran on this very openly. okay. i don't think anybody to agree or i'll solve with a 24 hours. okay. that that was campaign hi personally, but you know where he is maggie. in this for him policy. i'm getting a little worried. go ahead and salt lake city as well. trip isn't it? as made a few really good pigs. uh, you know, uh, tulsa gabber, guys and some other folks like that that i think you're going to give them some good advice. and most notably, journeyman, i mean, judy vance is a very vocal opponent of the war. and ukraine is, he was wanted to end it yesterday, and he's, he's going to be a visual and drugs here. i'm telling them to, you know, to be, to all kill lots ridiculous, you know, con proposals for, for a ceasefire. peace with russia. so, you know, my opinion should have sent judy babbs to be that special ed boy to negotiate the,

the rest of the parentheses, freeman. and by the way, this, this needs to be a us rush, a piece for you, pray and does not need to be involved. us represents you crazy interest. and zaleski is out a lot any piece piece uh, negotiations with the russian federation. so he is proven to be uh, you know, not a reliable part of a piece truck is, is, or israel. i am a part of visa. fine, of course has a joke. uh, he spent 10 minutes and the last 3 years talking about new credit and basically is reading out of her position or opposition to rushes invasion which is essentially kind of a pre emptive invasion to roll back on the, you know, went through all expansion in ukraine and restore you praying to it's a peaceful but for state and federal law for state status, a pre made onto so i i still hopeful, but the more i've heard about the catalog plan, the more discouraged i am in terms of an immediate solution. well, as i, as low as i said in my and at the end of my introduction,

the slaughter continues. gentlemen, i really appreciated very thoughtful program and that's all the time we have one. i think my guess in washington, dc, salt lake city and in san francisco. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are the see next time. and remember prospect of the, the insulating people into disgusted with what's going on with that. sending huge amounts of money into the lensky in terms of weapons to kill russians when actually we're taking money away from people that have been one of the big things in the you tell you that i know about domestically is that the common labor government have taken one and

a half 1000000000 pounds away from pension. the the strange similarities found even new orleans and las vegas attacks that's according to nevada police, with pro suspects having military background and having use the same car rental company details, continuing to emerge in the las vegas. so i'm a truck explosion. it's revealed the month on the dead inside the vehicle served in the us special forces unit, which provides training for ukraine. and the political drama keeps on going in south korea. officials cool off attempts to rest of the country's presence. often ours won't stand between investigate this time please secure