cornerstone to vanquish grey economy. it was considered a lifeline for residence and an estimated 30000 trade is back local media claiming that one person died in 14, others was seriously injured in the place. well, that's always good times. well this our good find for me, but no say in in law's name will be here at the back at the top of the next hour. because the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross popular. all things are considered on peter lavelle.

nato says the line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine, but instead, be focused on sending more weapons the cube again, the alliance demonstrates it can never entertain plans for peace and stability, as well as security for all in the meantime, the slaughter continues the processing nato. i'm joining by my guest. scott ritter in del mar is a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector in salt lake city. we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national in homeland security. and in san francisco, we crossed to check ras moves. he is an associate professor of economics at st. mary's college as well as the author of the scourge of neo liberalism. right, gentlemen, cross stock rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. let's go to

1st the scott scott's in washington dc. scott, you're usually in delmar, but you're in washington. why to washington? because the, today we are closer to a nuclear or between united states and russia at any time in the nuclear. this is a far more dangerous situation, then the cuban missile crisis. and if something isn't done to alter the trajectory that the united states is currently on with russia, there is a, not just possibility, but probably of a, of a nuclear war. so on saturday, i will be moderating the events of the national press club of we're going to have 3 panels of distinguish speakers talking about the danger of nuclear war and talking about what can be done to, to get congress to, to take action, to put pressure on the binding ministration between now and january, 28th,

and also what can be done to get the trump transition team to speak out forcefully against this policy. specifically the use by ukraine of america and provided american targeted attack of dismissals. the united states is a party to this conflict. we are actively attacking rush as we speak. i would say one more time. so your audience is very clear on this. the united states is attacking russia. this is an act of war. and if we continue to do this, russia has every right to respond in kind which could lead to direct conflict between united states and russia, which will inevitably become a nuclear. ringback so we're trying to stop this, this is what i'm trying to do this coming saturday. well, i commend you and i hope it gets as much coverage as possible. i will do my best. obviously, david and salt lake city on the back of what scott decided, which is very important. is it in the, in the media? is it we get it? we're getting dribs and drabs right now of what of the abide and the outgoing by

the administration is leaving the incoming trump administration. we know the cast of characters we have. we've had a general keith kelly. we of j. d vance. rick right now. um. okay, fine. but the things i'm reading, particularly like from bloomberg, a quote, ukraine seeks a sustainable piece. well, it's what she expects, the same stressing that temporary resolutions would not serve us. so ukrainian interest, this is a theme that we keep going over and over and over to russia. has interest to rush is involved in this here, but we constantly see plans being made really with the exclusion of russia. it's. that's not going to work. go ahead and salt lake city. you know, you're absolutely right here. um, when uh, you know, it's difficult when a power is there's no countries winning a war there and it wants to get this the term. so in this case, russian has been when even more of the last 2 or 3 years. i think this uh no longer

debatable and, you know, as a result, you prayed in the us, i have to accept a piece piece agreement terms that are minimally acceptable to the russian federation. and so that, that's really the key that's been missing all this talk about nato membership being pushed back. that's completely unacceptable to russia. the idea that we could that we would send data peacekeepers to patrol a dmc that i me that is that on arrival, there's no way that the present people would accept that. so you know, the key, the key to you praise security is, is not being align with west because we prefer not capable providing for the security of ukraine is lost 30 percent of its population since 2014 mostly refugees and its economy is it has been destroyed, it's pretty political structure, has been destroyed, dives notorious, been wiped out with a 1000000 casualties, which 400000 are data. and the only way can have security is through

a friendly relations with russian federation. was a debt from 1991 to 2014. yes. but see yeah, it's go to jack and san francisco. that's why i have long argued the day this started ukraine loss because the european pan, your opinion, security order had been destroyed. it's in patters right now. and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re think when, when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. no, i don't think the nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent to several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some time,

some terminal battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the appointments recently looked like a retread. neil cons, i mean you got waltz. do doug work or you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most of the trouble appointments that was supposed to shake up the div state uh, you know, i think is blocked right now. and i don't think it portends a much positive here. uh, as i said, they may try to begin negotiations of some kind, but that will be to justify. uh, uh, further uh, armed shipments to say, well, we gotta negotiate from a position to strength. clear. so we got a really both the ukraine, but you know, you can send all the weapons, you want the, but if a ukraine is losing reserves in the, you know, the quality of, of the new recruits is such a,

it's not going to make much difference just based on the more weapons and with scott also in the same kind of media, particularly bloomberg seems to have a corner on the market right now. there was mention of, but of course the carrots and sticks will be needed. i think we've had enough sticks with this. that's why we need to resolve this complex. again, you know this, this is a, it's like a self licking ice cream cone. you, this is, it's all hermetically, close there. and plus, there's no communication with the russian federation at all. i mean, how can use but even think about negotiations. let's go back to the premises that the you discussed with your other guess of the united states and data or not looking for a piece. the current policy of the united states is to see the strategic feet of russia using the ukranian proxy conflict is the principal tool of the stabilisation . that is the official policies united states and nato. so everything that's being

done right now is not designed to be in opposition to the policy, but to recognize the difficulties of the current situation and try to mitigate that gets to feed by creating contain. but what we're looking at right now with all these talks about peace is not about normalize relations. creating good relations is about containing russia about trying to limit the scope and scale of the russian victory to keep it temporary in nature until some future day when the russian gauge is not reverse the ukrainians are straight up honest about this. so the trump administration has to understand that any success with russia, because i agree with your, your, your, your guess this is a non starter. i can't speak on behalf of the russian government. indeed, just simply a period of the show is going to vary budget, irritate the f b i, which is prevent, prohibited me from speaking to you to our team,

to anybody in the russian government. but i don't care who the but the fact is, we're not about normalize relations. we are about containing russia. and if we don't start off the truck, the administration start off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by seizing this attack on russia, but by openly saying that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia. because that's the, that's the, that there is a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia, russian will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy who's trying to defeat you? what you need to do therefore, is defeat the enemy, which is what russia is doing on the battlefield. a new, great, david, the way the it's being reported that, you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration. which of course is trying to make the situation as worse as possible. that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but

essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that because the, the, or outside of a few programs like this and a judge nap where scott appears quite often. people do know that history means one to but we're not going to do number 3, that's not an on the cards. go ahead. dave. as well. main street was the symbol agreement. you know, russia committed there and troy, now troops for a pre award cranium territory. no, they're not for a structure like we would have a next the, the dog boss people through complex, but that still would have left 93 percent of the brands that are nationally recognize territory for any control. so they had a tremendous opportunity to have a win win piece agreement back in march, 201222. and the final step worst johnson, the retail it. so it, i don't think divided restoration is interested in these, there they're trying to rash up the world present. uh, you know, the truck, with a little hard to sabotage is very sincere attempts to end the war. i think trunk

will be successful in uh you know, 14 a ceasefire that ends ends. the warranty crane. i'm a little bit more skeptical that he'll be willing to immediately entertain peace terms that are, you know, a long term piece terms that are acceptable to russia. yeah. but disappointment in general, the problem or the but the problem with that is i'll go and go back to jack in san francisco. is it a ceasefire? isn't the solution here that doesn't solve the security problems that the, the european cotton in faces right now, a ceasefire, a truce? it's not going to work for the reasons that scott just enumerated. go ahead, jack. before we go to the break. a. yeah, i don't think they even minuses fire i, i think they want another formula for continuing to conflict. maybe at a, at a lower intensity here. the us, uh, you know, many icons don't leave. they have to be have to be driven out that there's no solution to this through a negotiation in a compromise and ok,

it's all over. let's go home. no, they'll stay and they'll find some way and that's what they're searching for. right now they're searching for some new a new arrangement where the, the war can be continued under the. yeah. but that, that would mean not going right back to the beginning of the program, wisconsin. that would mean escalation. well gentlemen, we don't have much further to go before you're at the ultimate escalation, jack. i mean, 10 seconds before we go to the break. jack. yeah, well, uh, i don't think they want the further escalation, unless they can. uh, you know, more uh russia into using tactical moods. i think that's what the price i, i think they have, they've taken care of that. what weapon care category. and we'll get to talk about that in the next part of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato and ukraine. stay with our team,

the, the items that i have a huge family. bullshit. assess to start streaming. yeah. yeah. you cover me up with some of this if you have a big show. so i emailed a name 1st. the lady showed up the slow. no you for the outside. for the much in the past, the forest, every area of late in the field was, are watching a little buzz yet, but you could, you could forward it to me when i start to see what could i upgrade, assuming yet at the more for the dish cut symbol,

i mean deal of swing by the should with the other should the river the sky. it's all mine. and dear to me, this is my homeland. i love everyone in the well wishes me thought that just the way the like the chest it was a me here at the judas lsu. i live off towards any repair that i see here. awesome may assist you. that's on our side of the phone on the of the many places in the world's way to seal on the divide between the 2 oceans and what he might not seen kids. what does this, hey, english is northern, are found guest vision, and the 2 knows that us national park. and today's we know the where the sofas. i'm taking a deep side,

interesting beach because system the welcome back to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter le belcher mind you were discussing nato n ukraine. the . let's go back to scott in washington. you know, for all the talk of, of negotiations. i'm getting a team together and the point person on all that. scott, at the end of the day, this is going to be dealt with on the battlefields is that's the only because of the, the type of people that are being um, involved in this here. i mean, what that means kelly is what they mean. he and he's been doing this for like 70 years or something. i mean, people don't change. okay. and that's why it's going to be settled on the battlefield. scott, you know, i, i believe that again, i don't pretend to have any insight into russian government thinking i don't speak

on behalf of the russian government. that's the little aside for the f b i who's watching this that's just my assessment. after years of studying the russian government, this russian government, they haven't done what they've done here. they didn't initiate what they called military technical meetings, back in february of 2022, just to throw it all away. people need to understand that russia has committed to a course of action that will only hit this is an extra stipulation for russia. that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians and russian policy. this is an extra central issue in russia is committed the national survival of russia to this conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to throw it away. anything less that achieving the outcomes that they have articulated, which is no nato membership. demilitarization of ukraine di notification to be trained, anything less than that is a strategic defeat for russia. therefore,

unacceptable to russia in the less needs to understand that in pushing russia to this good, remember this conflict didn't begin in february 22. this conflict began well prior to 2014, but it, it took a detroit form in 2014, and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think menaced one was, what do you think vince 2 was? what do you think the rushing the effort to of to insert draft treaties? december of 2021 while you go. what do you think the 1st negotiation phase post conflict was to get to minutes? 3 in this, of all the effort to avoid this very situation. but the west refused to cooperate. the west refused to negotiate. in russia now is fully committed, fully committed to achieving the outcome. it's says, must take place for russia to survive. this is an extra central struggle,

that's why i said, any talk of negotiation, freeze cease, fire is a non starter because it would be russia basically say we lost it versus not losing their winning on every phase of this conflict, militarily, economically, politically, well, even gave a tender thing that again, so many people in the west of failed to understand because they're not told, is that this is an x, a central correct for russia. but for nato, this is a choice. this is a craven choice rush. it does not threaten nato security, but nato threatens russia security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does. the threatened data security today. they didn't do so before the war that's. that's why it's created. so is attacking russian territory. that is a threat is russia attacking nato territory? no, it is, it, it's not the same thing. you can't, they,

you can't pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah, you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been a fairly demonizes to us, the dresser. uh, this was not enough for vote progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history. and you know, cause, want a piece expect 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess doubtful threat of data on ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war, russia has a peace terms that were mostly reasonable and would create the situation for just the last new piece, you know, the real solution is, is on. it's on the negotiating table. you know, we need an u. s. needs indigo. she kind of a new and talk with, with russian. not just the dates on it and taught where the us and russia, because strategic partners to support the peace and stability throughout the world

. but especially in europe. and we can do that by reading to uh, you know, getting the war on drugs. so russia, pulling back all us troops, 20000 us troops and eastern europe, withdrawing all of our nuclear weapons from, from europe, wisdom reciprocal, reciprocal concessions on the russian side. and then restoring full diplomatic and traits last week we should have a free trade treaty with, with russia. we should have, you know, total engagement. we should, we should give them a sphere of influence. and you know, all the former soviet republics, except for the baltic states and immature uh, they can give us your thoughts, it in, in western uh, the western hemisphere. but uh, i think uh, the advantages of hope here is the community is a champion, a beast. uh president. trump is a chair going to be, is these pick some, some new cause? some very good want to america 1st service, but also some neo cons that don't want peace. and i think he's going to get very frustrated with those new context and he's going to twist their arms and make them

agreed. you know, accepts terms that are acceptable to, to moscow. yeah. well i had a jack in san francisco. i think they died from day one. uh the uh, the, the deep state or the bureaucratic state, the permanent state. they are going to turn ukraine into donald trump's biggest nightmare, and we already see it happening because jack with the ideas that david just a numerator on rock are good ideas. i couldn't disagree. cope with being paid for doing any of them. jack. yeah, well you know, uh, this is not just the conflict in ukraine. uh, i wrote an article in january 22 before the hot war began entitled 10 reasons why the us, they want russia to invade ukraine. there's a lot to be game for the empire by initiating, continuing this war, you know, before the war us was losing, as well as was the nato. well, now they've totally, you know, captured, recaptured nato again. and one of the main objectives of the war. i think was the

drug, russia out of western europe economically and the us to, you know, penetrate into europe and take over the energy reading some of the other industries . well, the u. s. a. empire has been totally successful amount objective. there's other objectives as well involved with it. busy not just defeating russia on the ground, and that's one reason why i think they're going to continue this conflict in some shape or other even under trump. well, i mean it, it, yeah, i think this is going to be with us all for a very long time. it's interesting, jack, what you said, i mean the united states is very kind to its allies. so it isn't, it doesn't mean they destroy its energy infrastructure. it wrap it in place and sag nation. and this is all because you're a member of nato. it's really remarkable, scott, i'll bet you. i'm not a really a betting man, but whatever outcome there is, it's good to go back to the diplomatic notes that russia sent to the united states

and to nato. uh, in december before the february of 2022. because that's the roadmap and they're going to refer back to it. i bet you anything they're going to do that, scott. and i think you're a 100 percent correct? uh, the, the, you know, at the time rushes submitted these draft treaties to nato, into the united states. so they were marked in western circles, is unrealistic of what is russia think they're doing? because the perception was the rush was operate from a position of weakness today. i don't think anybody's thinks that russia's operating from a position of with this, had these draft documents suddenly become an extraordinarily well fried out pieces of diplomacy that could create a european security framework that could engender the kind of stability that was spoken of that has a western sphere of f once a russian's fear of life, importance,

and not a of, in the 2 sides, not being a conflict. but here's the problem. nato does the rush is a threat in russia. it is a threat that because russia threatened the state of but because nato has defined its very existence as being predicated on a need to confront russia next, essentially. therefore, the failure to defeat russia has led to a situation where nato is in danger of collapsing. you know, you speak of the united states coming in and disrupting the european economy to take it over. good. congratulations, america you did. did the united states predict the rise of a alternative for doing sled in the fact that if it winds and it's heavy, not a trajectory of victory? jeremy withdrawal from the you, which means jeremy with drugs have data, that's not what the united states wanted. did they predict the parliamentary outcome in france now that protest tried to avoid, but he kept his government, the government's collapsing now of pro peace,

the sympathetic russian parliament might come in the united states and predict that europe is devolving, collapsing re defining itself. and so that's the only reason why these rush you draft, these may not be viable anymore, because if they were drafted with a strong unified, you're in mind, i don't think you're a big sister anymore, and i don't think it's going to exist. so there's going to have to be of russia in the united states or to this out. i think europe is based on the 5 itself. i absolutely agree here. you know, it's interesting, scott, the, you know, they, they, they, they, you had all the variables, the sanctions and the oil embargo, all they had, all of these things figured out except for, oh, democracy. they didn't take that into account and now it's coming. a blow black, i'm blowing back at them david, you know, where is maga in all of this?

i'm really quite bewildered. okay. the trump ran on this very openly. okay. i don't think anybody to agree or i'll start within 24 hours. okay. that, that was campaign high per billy. but you know where he is maggie. in this for him policy. i'm getting a little worried. go ahead and salt lake city as well. trip isn't it? is made a few really good goods. you know, uh, tulsa gab or guys and some other folks like that that i think you're going to give them some good advice. and most notably, journeyman, i mean, judy vance is very vocal opponent of the war. and ukraine is, he was wanted to end it yesterday, and he's, he's going to be a visual and drugs here and telling them to, you know, to be, to all kind of lots ridiculous new proposals for, for ceasefire peace with russia. so, you know, in my opinion, you should have sent judy bands to be that special ed boy to negotiate the, the russia ukraine disagreement. and by the way, this, this needs to be a us rush or a piece for you pray and does not need to be involved. us represents the praise

interest, and zaleski is out a lot of the piece piece uh, negotiations with uh, the russian federation. so he is proven to be uh, you know, not a reliable partner for peace truck is, is, or israel. i am a part of visa. fine. of course. as a joke. uh, he spent 10 minutes of the last 3 years talking about ukraine, basically is reading out our position or opposition to russia's invasion, which is essentially kind of a preemptive invasion to roll back. and, you know, went through all expansion and can you create and restore your brand to it's a peaceful buffer state neutral buffer states tass, pretty made onto. so i still hopeful, but the more i've heard about the kellogg plan, the more discouraged i am in terms of an immediate solution. well, as i experience, as i said in my end, at the end of my introduction, the slaughter continues. gentlemen, i really appreciated very thoughtful program and that's all the time we have one,

i think my guess in washington, dc, salt lake city and in san francisco. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are the see next time. and remember prospect of the, the so i think people disgusted with what's going on with that, sending huge amounts of money to the wednesday in terms of weapons to kill russians . when actually we're taking money away from people that have been one of the big things in the tell you that i know about domestically is that the cover labor government have taken one and a half 1000000000 pounds away from the

the strains similar to the then the new orleans on the las vegas attack stop is according to nevada police, the code suspects having served up the same u. s. military base and use the same rental car companies to stage the results. process details continue to emerge and the las vegas cyber truck explosion. it's revealed lamond find dead inside the vehicle served in an american special forces unit, which provides printing theory as new leadership with holes, a ton of friendship, quite literally. celebrate use top diplomats visit the las vegas. the trip is still getting fresh tensions with front. his own boy reportedly urging us by curtis