the the, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross top, where all things are considered. and peter level, nato says the line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine, but instead, be focused on sending more weapons because of again, the alliance demonstrates it can never entertain plans for peace and stability as well as security for all. in the meantime, the slaughter continues the

prospecting nato. i'm joined by my guess. scott ritter in del mar is a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector. in salt lake city. we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. and in san francisco, he crossed to check ras moves. he is an associate professor of economics at st. mary's college, as well as the author of the scourge of neo liberalism, are a gentleman, cross talk, rules and effect. that means he can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. let's go to 1st. the scotts scotts in washington dc. scott, you're usually in delmar, but you're in washington. why? of washington? because the, today we are closer to a nuclear or between united states and russia at any time in the nuclear. this is a far more dangerous situation, then the cuban missile crisis. and if something isn't done to alter the trajectory that the united states is currently on with russia, there is a,

not just possibility, but probably of a, of a nuclear war. so on saturday, i will be moderating a, a, an event of the national press club of we're gonna have 3 panels of distinguish speakers talking about the danger of nuclear war and talking about what can be done to, to get congress to, to take action, to put pressure of the body and ministration between now and january, 28th, and also what can be done to get the trump transition team to speak out forcefully against this policy. specifically, the use by ukraine of american provided american targeted attack of dismissals. the united states is a party to this conflict. we are actively attacking russia as we speak as a one more died. so your audience is very clear on this. the united states is attacking russia. this is an act of war. and if we continue to do this,

russia has every right to respond in kind which could lead to direct conflict between united states and russia, which will inevitably become a nuclear war. so we're trying to stop this. this is what i've tried to do this coming saturday. well, i commend you and i hope it gets as much coverage as possible. i will do my best. obviously, david and salt lake city on the back of what scott just said, which is very important. is it in the, in the media? is it we get it? we're getting dribs and drabs right now of what of the abide and the outgoing by the administration is leaving the incoming trump administration. we know the cast of characters we have. we've had a general keith kelly. we of g d vance. rick right now. um. okay, fine. but the things i'm reading particularly like from bloomberg, quote, ukraine seeks a sustainable piece. well, it's what she expects, the same, stressing that temporary resolutions would not serve us. so ukrainian interest. this is

a theme that we keep going over and over and over to russia. has interest to rush is involved in this here. but we constantly see plans being made really with the exclusion of russia. it's, that's not going to work. go ahead and salt lake city. you know, you're absolutely right here. um, when uh, you know, it's difficult when a power is there's no countries winning a war there in the wants to get this the term. so in this case, russia has been even more over the last uh, 2 or 3 years. i think this uh no longer debatable and, you know, as a result, you prayed in the us have to accept a piece piece agreement terms that are minimally acceptable to the russian federation. and so that, that's really the key that's been missing all this talk about nato membership being pushed back. that's completely unacceptable to russia. the idea of the week that we would send data peacekeepers to patrol a dmc that i me that is that on arrival,

there's no way that the present people would accept that. so you know, the key, the key to you praise security is, is not being align with west because we prefer not capable providing for the security of ukraine is as lost uh, 30 percent of its population since 2014 mostly refugees and its economy is it has been destroyed. it's pretty political structure, has been destroyed. it's notorious, been wiped out with a 1000000 casualties, which 400000 are data. and the only way can have security is through a friendly relations with the russian federation. was a debt from 1991 to 2014. yes. but see yeah, it's go to jack and san francisco. that's why i have long argued the day this started ukraine last because the european pan, your opinion, security order had been destroyed, did bits and patters right now. and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re thing when,

when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. i don't think uh, nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent of several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some tense, internal battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the appointments recently looked like a retread, neal. cons, i mean you got waltz. do doug work or you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most lovely trump appointments that was supposed to shake up the div state. uh

you know, i think is blocked right now and uh, i don't, i get bought tens uh much positive here. uh. as i said, they may try to begin negotiations of some kind, but that will be to justify. uh, uh, further uh, armed shipments to say, well, we gotta negotiate from a position to strength. clear. so we got a really both the ukraine, but you know, you can send all the weapons, you want the, but if a ukraine is losing reserves in the, you know, the quality of, of the new recruits is such a, it's not going to make much difference just based on the more weapons, emma's scott also in the same kind of media particularly bloomberg, seems to have a corner on the market right now. there was mention of, but of course the carrots and sticks will be needed. i think we've had enough sticks with this. that's why we need to resolve this complex. again, you know this, this is a, it's like a self licking ice cream cone. you've been, this is, it's all hermetically. close there. and plus,

there was no communication with the russian federation at all. i mean, how can you even think about negotiations? let's go back to the premises. the you discussed with your other guess of united states and data or not looking for a piece. the current policy of the united states has to see the strategic feet of russia using the ukranian proxy conflict is the principal tool of the stabilisation . that is the official policies united states and nato. so everything that's being done right now is not designed to be in opposition to the policy, but to recognize the difficulties of the current situation and try to mitigate that gets to feed by creating contain. but what we're looking at right now with all these talks about peace is not about normalize relations. creating good relations is about containing russia about trying to limit the scope and scale of the russian

victory to keep it temporary in nature until some future day when the russian games refers the ukrainians are straight up honest about this. so the trump administration has to understand that any success with russia, because i agree with your, your, your, your guess this is a non starter. i can't speak on behalf of the russian government. indeed, just simply a period of the show is going to very budget irritate the of the i would just prevent prohibited me from speaking to you to our team, to anybody in the russian government. but i don't care who the but the fact is, we're not about normalize relations. we are about containing russia. and if we don't start off the truck, the administration start off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by ceasing this attack on russia, but by openly say that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia. because that's the, that's the, that there is

a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia, russian will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy, who's trying to defend you? what you need to do, therefore, it is defeat the enemy, which is what russian is doing on the battlefield. and your great david, the way the units being reported that you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration. which of course is trying to make the situation as worse as possible. that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that because the, the outside of a few programs like this and a judge nap where scott appears quite often. people do know that history means one to but we're not going to do number 3, that's not an on the cards. go ahead. dave, as well. main street was the symbol agreement. you know, russia committed aaron drawer and ask for it for a pre. were you creating a territory? no, they're not for a structure like we would have a next the,

the dog boss people through complex, but that still would have left 93 percent of the grades that are nationally recognize territory for any control. so they had a tremendous opportunity to have a win win piece agreement back in march, 201222 and the final step restaurants of the retail it. so it, i don't think dividing distraction is interested in these, there they're trying to rash up the world present to, you know, the truck with a little hard to sabotage is very sincere attempts to end the war. i think trunk will be successful in uh, you know, 14 a ceasefire that ends ends. the warranty crane. i'm a little bit more skeptical that though he'll be willing to immediately entertain peace terms that are, you know, a long term piece terms that are acceptable to russia. yeah, but i make this appointment a general care on the problem or the but the problem with that is i'll go and go back to jack in san francisco. is it a ceasefire? isn't the solution here? that doesn't solve the security problems that the,

the european cotton in faces right now, a ceasefire, a truce. it's not going to work for the reasons that scott just enumerated. go ahead, jack. before we go to the break. yeah, i don't think they them honestly as far i, i think they want another formula for continuing a conflict. maybe at a, at a lower intensity here in the us. uh, you know, the neo cons the don't leave. they have to be asked to be driven out the there's no solution to this through a negotiation in a compromise and ok, it's all over. let's go home. no, they'll stay a no fight in some way. and that's what they're searching for. right now they're searching for some new a new arrangement where the, the war can be continued under the. yeah. but that, that would mean not going right back to the beginning of the program, wisconsin. that would mean escalation. well gentlemen, we don't have much further to go before you're at the ultimate escalation,

jack. i mean, 10 seconds before we go to the break deck. yeah, well uh, i don't think they want the further escalation unless they can, you know, lower uh russia into using tactical moves. i think that's what the price i, i think they have to, they've taken care of that, what weapon care category. and we'll get to talk about that in the next part of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato and ukraine. stay with our team. the of the many places in the world's way to seal on the divide between the

2 oceans and what he might not think kids. one of them is hey, english is northern, are found guilty region and the channels that us national park. and today we know the stuff was from taking a deep side into some beach because system the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter le belcher mind, you were discussing nato n ukraine. the . let's go back to scott in washington, you know, for all the talk of, of negotiations and getting a team together and the point person on all that. scott, at the end of the day, this is going to be dealt with on the battlefields is that's the only because of the, the type of people that are being um, involved in this here. i mean, what that mean,

kelly is what i mean. he and he's been doing this for like 70 years or something. i mean, people don't change. okay. and that's why it's good to be settled on the battlefield . scott, you know, i, i believe that again, i don't pretend to have any insight into russian government thinking i don't speak on behalf of the rest of the government. that's the little aside for the f b i who's watching this. that's just my assessment. after years of studying the russian government, this russian government, they haven't done what they've done here. they didn't initiate what they called military technical means back in february of 2022. just to throw it all away. people need to understand that russia has committed to a course of action that will only hit this is an extra central issue for russia. that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians and russian policy. this is an extra central issue in russia is committed the national survival of russia to this

conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to throw it away. anything less than a cheating. the outcomes that they have articulated, which is no nato membership demilitarization of ukraine di notification to be trained, anything less than that is a strategic defeat for russia. therefore, unacceptable to russia, in the less needs to understand that in pushing russia to this good, remember this conflict didn't begin in february 22. this conflict began well prior to 2014, but it, it, it took its current form in 2014, and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think permits one was? what do you think vince 2 was? what do you think the rushing the effort to of to insert draft treaties in december of 2021. what do you got? what do you think the 1st negotiation phase post conflict was to get to minutes? 3 and this of all the effort to avoid this very situation. but the west refused to

cooperate. the west refused to negotiate in russia now is fully committed, fully committed to achieving the outcome. it's says must take place for russia to survive. this is an extra central struggle. that's why i said any talk of negotiation, freeze cease. fire is a non starter because it would be russia basically say we lost it versus not losing their winning on every phase of this conflict, militarily, economically, politically, well, either gave a tender thing that again, so many people in the west of failed to understand because they're not told is that this is an x, a central correct for russia, but for nato, this is a choice. this is a craving choice rush. it does not threaten nato security, but nato threatens russia security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does the threatened data security today. they didn't do so before the

war. that's, that was, it was created, mexico is attacking russian territory. that is a threat is russia attacking nato territory? no, it is. it is not the same thing. you can't the but you can, you can pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah, you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been, uh, yeah, i'm fairly demonizes to us, the dresser. uh, this was not enough for vote progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history and you know, cause want a pc spent 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess doubtful threat update on ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war russia has had peace terms that were mostly reasonable and would create the situation for just the last new piece. you know, the real solution is, is on. it's on the negotiating table. you know,

we need to, us needs to negotiate, uh, kind of, uh, a new and talk with uh, with russian not just the dates on it and taught where the us and russia, because strategic partners to support the peace and stability throughout the world . but especially in europe, and we can do that by reading to uh, you know, have the war on drugs. so russia, pulling back all us troops, 20000 us troops in eastern europe, withdrawing all of our nuclear weapons from, from your wisdom reciprocal reciprocal concessions on the russian side. and then restoring full diplomatic and traits last week we should have a free trade treaty with, with russia. we should have, you know, totally engagement. we should, we should give them a sphere of influence. and you know, all the former soviet republics except for the baltic states and the mature they can give us your reports in, in western uh, the western hemisphere. but uh, i think uh, the advantages of hope here is the community is a champion apiece. uh president, trump is a chair in a piece these pick some,

some new cons. so very good want to america 1st in service, but also some neo cons that don't want piece in. i think he's going to get very frustrated with those new context and he's going to twist their arms and make them agreed, you know, accept the terms that are accept the whole to, to moscow. yeah. well, i had a jack in san francisco. i think they died from day one of the, the, the deep states or the bureaucratic state, the permanent state. they're going to turn ukraine into donald trump's biggest nightmare. and we already see it happening because jack with the ideas that david just a numerator on rock are good ideas. i couldn't disagree. cope with being paid for doing any of them. jack. yeah, well, you know, uh, this is not just the conflict in ukraine. uh, i wrote an article in january 22 before the hot war began entitled 10 reasons why the us, they want russia to invade ukraine. there's

a lot to the game for the empire by initiating, continuing this war. you know, before the war uh us was losing influence with the nato. well, now they've totally, you know, captured, recaptured nato again. and one of the main objectives of the war, i say, was the drug, russia out of western europe economically. and the us to, uh, you know, penetrate into europe and take over the energy reading some of the other industries . well, the u. s. a. empire has been totally successful amount objective. there's other objectives as well involved with before. not just defeating russia on the ground, and that's one reason why i think they're going to continue this conflict in some shape or other even under trump. well, i mean it, it, yeah, i think this is going to be with us all for a very long time. it's interesting, jack, what you said, i mean the united states is very kind to its allies, isn't it? i mean, they destroy its energy infrastructure. it wrap it in place and sag nation,

and this is all because you're a member of nato. it's really remarkable. scott, i'll bet you i'm not a really a bedding man, but whatever outcome there is, it's good to go back to the diplomatic notes that russia sent to the united states and to nato uh, in december before the february of 2022 with good. that's the roadmap and they're going to refer back to it. i bet you anything they're going to do that, scott. and i think you're a 100 percent correct of the video at the time. russian submitted these draft treaties to nato into the united states. so they were marked him. the western circles is unrealistic of what is russia think they're doing a because the perception was the rush was operate from a position to wake us today. i don't think anybody's thinks the rush is operating from a position of we've just had these draft documents suddenly become extraordinarily

well thought out pieces of diplomacy that could create a european security framework that couldn't gender the kind of stability that was spoken of that has a western sphere of influence, a russian street of life importance, and not a in, in the 2 sides, not being in conflict. but here's the problem. nato does the rush is a threat in russia. it is a threat that because russia threatened the state of but because nato has defined its very existence as be predicated on a need to confront russia next, essentially. therefore, the failure to defeat russia has led to a situation where data is in danger of collapsing. you know, you speak of the united states coming in and disrupting the european economy to take it over. good. congratulations, america you did. did the united states predict the rise of a alternative for doing sled in the fact that if it winds and it's heavy, not a trajectory of victory? jeremy withdrawal from the you, which means jeremy with drugs have data,

that's not what the united states wanted. did they predict the parliamentary outcome in france now that protest tried to avoid, but he kept his government, the government's collapsing now of pro peace, the sympathetic russian parliament might go to the united states and predict that europe is devolving, collapsing, redefining itself. and so that's the only reason why these russian draft it is, may not be viable anymore, because they were drafted with a strong unified europe in mind. i don't think the europe exists anymore, and i don't think it's going to exist. so there's going to have to be of russia in the united states or to this out. i think europe is based on the 5 itself. i absolutely agree here. you know, it's interesting, scott, the, you know, they, they, they, they, you had all the variables, the sanctions and the oil embargo, all days. they had all of these things figured out except for, oh,

democracy. they didn't take that into account and now it's coming at a blow black. i'm blowing back at them, david, you know, where is mac and all of this? i'm really quite bewildered. okay. the trump ran on this very openly. okay. i don't think anybody to agree or i'll solve within 24 hours. okay. that that was campaign high per billy. but you know, where is maggie? in this forum policy, i'm getting a little worried. go ahead and salt lake city as well. trip isn't it? as made a few really good goods, you know, uh, tulsa, gab, or guys and some other folks like that, that i think you're going to give them some good advice. and most notably, j e may ask, i mean, judy vance is a very vocal opponent of the war and ukraine is. he was wanting to ended yesterday . and he's, he's going to be a visual and drugs here. i'm telling them to, you know, to be, to all kill lots ridiculous, you know, con proposals for, for

a ceasefire. peace with russia. so, you know, my opinion should have sent ged bass to be that special ed boy to negotiate the, the rest of the brand. he's pretty much and by the way this, this needs to be a us rush or a piece for you pray and does not need to be involved. us represents the praise interest, and zaleski is out a lot, any piece piece uh, negotiations with the russian federation. so he is proven to be uh, you know, not a rely on apartment for bes truck is, is, or israel. i am a part of visa. fine, of course has a joke. uh, he spent 10 minutes in the last 3 years talking about new credit and basically is reading out opposition or opposition to russia's invasion, which was essentially kind of a pre emptive invasion to roll back on the, you know, went through expansion and can you create and restore your brand to it's a peaceful buffer, state neutral buffer state status pre made onto. so i still hopeful, but the more i've heard about the kellogg plan,

the more discouraged i am in terms of an immediate solution. well, as i, as for as low as i said in my and at the end of my introduction, the slaughter continues. gentlemen, i really appreciated very thoughtful program and that's all the time we have one. i think my guess in washington, dc, salt lake city and in san francisco. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here our see, see next time and remember across the to take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power,

tired vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify. it will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st? can you see through their illusion going underground? can the russian states navigate as one of the most sense? community best ingles, i'll send, send up the speed . what else calls question about this? even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the rush to day and split our t. suppose next, even our video agency,

roughly all the band on youtube. the said this was for the question, did you say even closer to the the interesting you're doing. it leads to the in the articles and you might, it's a scenario in easily scale to see the unit. you know, probably the way you can see it on the night. so that's literally the data. this is

kind of shows you for this list. the closest data is typical. i'm trying to minimize the cost at the middle, which is the same. and you're still in duty as no stores at the store to to 20, you would need to even finance 0. it's a good key and our phone yet. so that's the it's a simple example. disney junior, when you get them in front of me one year during the pursuit. so probably i, it's a well known for reading and what else you can use just a little no, great. the summer nadine, go on to the dumpster because of i'm aware of the car, will i get off the water to do this? you blood still do a good, a good that waving key if you need your story from what you have sweetie. maternity