a sometimes in the the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered on peter lavelle. nato says the line should not be considering a peace plan for ukraine, but instead, be focused on sending more weapons. the cube again, the alliance demonstrates it can never entertain plans for peace and stability, as well as security for all in the meantime, the slot are continuous, the

crossing nato. i'm joined by my guess. scott ritter in del mar is a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector. in salt lake city. we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. and in san francisco, we cross to jack rus moves. he is an associate professor of economics at st. mary's college, as well as the author of the scourge of neo liberalism, are a gentleman. crosstalk rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want . and i always appreciate it. let's go to 1st. the scotts scotts in washington dc. scott, you're usually in delmar, but you're in washington. why to washington? because the, today we are closer to a nuclear or between united states and russia at any time in the nuclear, this is a far more dangerous situation than the cuban missile crisis. and if something isn't done to alter the trajectory that the united states is currently on with

russia, there is a, not just possibility, but probably of a, of a nuclear war. so on saturday, i will be moderating a, a, an event of the national press club of we're gonna have 3 panels of distinguish speakers talking about the danger of nuclear war and talking about what can be done to, to get congress to, to take action, to put pressure on the bind administration between now and january, 28th, and also what could be done to get the trump transition team to speak out forcefully against this policy. specifically the use by ukraine of america and provided american targeted attack him dismissals. the united states is a party to this conflict. we are actively attacking russia as we speak. i would say one more died. so your audience is very clear on this. the united states is attacking russia. this is an act of war. and if we continue to do this,

russia has every right to respond in kind which could lead to direct conflict between united states and russia, which will inevitably become a nuclear. ringback so we're trying to stop this, this is what i've tried to do this coming saturday. well, i commend you and i hope that it gets as much coverage as possible. i will do my best obviously, david in, in salt lake city, on the back of what scott decided, which is very important, is it in the, in the media is it, we get it, we're getting dribs and drabs right now of what of the a bite and the outgoing by the administration is leaving the incoming trump administration. we know the cast of characters we have. we've had a general keith kelly. we of the vans rick right now. um. okay, fine. but the things i'm reading, particularly like from bloomberg, quote, ukraine seeks a sustainable piece. well, it's what she expects, the same stressing that temporary resolutions would not serve us. so ukrainian interest. this is

a theme that we keep going over and over and over to russia. has interest to rush is involved in this here, but we constantly see plans being made really with the exclusion of russia. it's. that's not going to work. go ahead and salt lake city. you know, you're absolutely right here. um, when uh, you know, it's difficult when a power is there's no countries winning a war there in the once we get this the term. so in this case, russia has been one of the war over the last, uh, 2 or 3 years. i think this uh no longer debatable and, you know, as a result, you prayed in the us have to accept a piece piece agreement terms that are minimally acceptable to the russian federation. and so that, that's really the key that's been missing all this talk about nato membership being pushed back. that's completely unacceptable to russia. the idea of the week that we would send data peacekeepers to patrol a dmc that i me that is that on arrival,

there's no way that the present people would accept that. so you know, the key, the key to you praise security is, is not on the line with the west because we prefer not capable providing for the security of ukraine is lost 30 percent of its population since 2014 mostly refugees and its economy is it has been destroyed. it's pretty political structure has been destroyed. it's notorious, been wiped out with the 1000000 casualties, which 400000 are dead. and the only way can have security is through a friendly relations with russian federation. was a debt from 1991 to 2014. yes. but see yeah, it's go to jack and san francisco. that's why i have long argued the day this started ukraine last because the european pan, your opinion, security order had been destroyed, did send patters right now. and that is because of nato, that is because of nato expansion. we need a complete re think when,

when ukraine security is considered, it cannot be separated from russia's, and this is what the west, particularly nato does not want to deal with. go ahead in san francisco. i don't think uh, nato wants peace. they may, i agree with you. absolutely. i agree with you. sorry. go ahead. the items are good pieces on the agenda here. they're looking for some formula to begin negotiations without any kind of intent to several anything. and what we've got going on in the american ministration. now there's been some time, some terminal battle as to who is going to represent the trump administration and trying to seek some sort of negotiations. and it's really where it's um, because of the appointments recently looked like a retread. neil cons, i mean, you got walks through doug work and i, you got rubio heads. this is probably out and you got the sense is probably in a most lovely trump appointments that was supposed to shake up the deep state. uh,

you know, i think is blocked right now. and uh, i don't think it portends a much positive here. uh, as i said, they may try to begin negotiations of some kind, but that will be to justify. uh, uh, further uh, armed shipments to say, well, we gotta negotiate from a position to strength. clear. so we gotta really post the ukraine, but you know, you can send all the weapons, you want the, but if a ukraine is losing reserves in the, you know, the quality of, of the new recruits is such a, it's not going to make much difference just based on the more weapons emma's scott also in the same kind of media particularly bloomberg, seems to have a corner on the market right now. there was mention of, but of course the carrots and sticks will be needed. i think we've had enough sticks with this. that's why we need to resolve this complex. again, you know this, this is a, it's like a self licking ice cream cone. you, this is, it's all hermetically, close there. and plus,

there was no communication with the russian federation at all. i mean, how can use that even think about negotiations, or let's go back to the premises that the you discussed with your other guess of the united states and data or not looking for a piece. the current policy of the united states has to see the strategic feet of russia using the ukranian proxy conflict is the principal tool of the stabilisation . that is the official policies united states and nato. so everything that's being done right now is not designed to be in opposition to the policy, but you recognize the difficulties of the current situation and try to mitigate that gets to feed by creating contain. but what we're looking at right now with all these thoughts about these is not about normalize relations. creating good relations is about containing russia about trying to limit the scope and scale of

the russian victory to keep it temporary in nature until some future day when the russian gauge is not reverse the ukrainians are straight up honest about this. so the trump administration has to understand that any success with russia, because i agree with your, your, your, your guess this is a non starter. i can't speak on behalf of the russian government. indeed, just simply, a period of the show is going to vary budget, irritate the of the i, which is prevent, prohibited me from speaking to you to our duty to anybody in the russian government . but i don't care if he, but the fact is, we're not about normalize relations. we are about containing russia. and if we don't start off the truck, the administration started off, not only by preventing a nuclear war by ceasing this attack on russia, but by openly say that we no longer are seeking the strategic defeat of russia. because that's the, that's the, that there is

a requirement for going forward. if we continue to pursue a policy that speak 6, the strategic defeat of russia, russia will never sit down at the table with us. why sit down and talk to an enemy, who's trying to defend you? what you need to do, therefore, it is defeat the enemy, which is what russian was doing on the battlefield. a new, great, david, the way the it's being reported that, you know, mean what's coming out of the, by the ministration. which of course is trying to make the situation as worse as possible. and that is a new and remarkable achievement of this outgoing failed administration. but essentially what they're doing is they're saying what's have min minutes 3. i mean it's, you know, almost no one knows that because the, the, or outside of a few programs like this and a judge nap where scott appears quite often. people do know that history means one to but we're not going to do number 3, that's not an on the cards. go ahead. dave. as well. main street was the symbol agreement. you know russia committed, baron troy, now troops for a pre were you creating a territory? no, they're not for a structure like we would have a next the,

the dog boss people through complex, but that still would have left 93 percent of the brands that are nationally recognize territory for any control. so they had a tremendous opportunity to have a win win piece agreement back in march, 201222. and the final step worst johnson to be jo it. so it, i don't think divided restoration is interested in these they're, they're trying to rash up the world present. uh, you know, the truck with uh, with a hard to sabotage is very sincere attempts to end the war. i think trunk will be successful in uh, you know, 14 a ceasefire that ends ends. the warranty crane. i'm a little bit more skeptical that though he'll be willing to immediately entertain peace terms that are, you know, a long term piece terms that are acceptable to russia. yeah, but i've been disappointed that in general can walk through the problem or the but the problem with that is i'll go and go back to jack in san francisco. is it a ceasefire? isn't the solution here? that doesn't solve the security problems that the,

the european cotton in faces right now, a ceasefire. a truce. it's not going to work for the reasons, but it's got just a numerated. go ahead jack, before we go to the break. yeah, i don't think they the minuses fire i, i think they want another formula for continuing to conflict. maybe at a, at a lower intensity here. the us, uh, you know, the neo cons don't waive they have to be. it has to be driven out that there's no solution to this through a negotiation in a compromise and ok, it's all over. let's go home. uh no they'll, they'll stay and they'll find in some way. and that's what they're searching for. right now they're searching for some new a new arrangement where the, the war can be continued under the. yeah. but that, that wouldn't mean not going right back to the beginning of the program, wisconsin. that would mean escalation. well gentlemen, we don't have much further to go before you're at the ultimate escalation,

jack. i mean, 10 seconds before we go to the break deck. uh. yeah, well, uh, i don't think they want the further escalation, unless they can. uh, you know, more uh russia into using tactical moods. i think that's what the price i, i think they have, they've taken care of that. what weapon care category. and we'll get to talk about that in the next part of the program. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato and ukraine. stay with our team, the number of many places in the world where you can stay on the divide between the 2 oceans and the you might not think kids. one of them is hey, english is northern,

are found your vision. and the kid knows that us national park. and today's when organize the was a stuff was taking a deep side, interesting beach because of the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm pete real about you. mind you were discussing nato n ukraine. the, well, let's go back to scott in washington, you know, for all the talk of, of negotiations. i'm getting a team together and that point person on all that, scott, at the end of the day, this is going to be dealt with on the battlefields isn't. so that's the only because of the, the type of people that are being um, involved in this here. i mean, what that mean, kelly is what i mean, he and he's been doing this for like 70 years or something. i mean, people don't change. okay?

and that's why it's good to be settled on the battlefield. scott, you know, i, i believe that again, i don't pretend to have any insight into russian government thinking i don't speak on behalf of the russian government. that's the little aside for the f b i who's watching this. that's just my assessment. after years of studying the russian government, this russian government, they haven't done what they've done here. they didn't initiate what they called military technical means, back in february of 2022, just to throw it all away. people need to understand that russia has committed to a course of action that will then we hit. this is an extra central issue for russia . that's a critical words, words matter when you're dealing with russians and russian policy. this is an extra central issue in russia is committed the national survival of russia to this conflict. and they are not going to deal. they are not going to throw it away. anything less than a cheating, the outcomes that they have articulated,

which is no nato membership demilitarization of ukraine, the notification to be trained, anything less than that is a strategic defeat for russia, therefore, unacceptable to russia. and the less needs to understand that, that in pushing russia to this could remember, this conflict didn't begin. in february 22. this conflict began well prior to 2014, but it, it took its current form in 2014. and russia has been seeking to avoid this conflict that entire time. what do you think? minutes one was. what do you think vince 2 was? what do you think the rushing the effort to of to insert draft treaties. december of 2021 while you go. what do you think the 1st negotiation phase post conflict was to get to minutes? 3 in this of all the effort to avoid this very situation. but the west refused to cooperate. the west refused to negotiate in russia now is fully committed,

fully committed to achieving the outcome and it's says, must take place for russia to survive. this is an extra central struggle. that's why i think any talk of negotiation, freeze cease. fire is a non starter because it would be russia basically say we lost it versus not losing their winning on every phase of this conflict, militarily, economically, politically, well, either gave a tender thing that again, so many people in the west of failed to understand because they're not told is that this is an x, a central threat for russia, but for nato, this is a choice. this is a craving choice rush. it does not threaten nato security, but nato threatens russian security. david in salt lake city as well. i think russia definitely does the threatened native security today. they didn't do so before the war that's. that's why it's created. so is attacking russian

territory. that is a threat is russia attacking nato territory? no, it is. it is not the same thing. you can't, they, you can't pair the to keep going and salt lake city. yeah, you're absolutely right. so nato is being the aggressor here. you know, it's been a fairly demonizes that as the dresser uh, this was not enough for both progression. this was the most provoked more that i've ever seen in our history and you know, cause want a pc spent 15 years trying to negotiate a peaceful solution to the excess there. so i'll try to pay the one ukraine in every day since every day since the day after the war, russia has had peace terms that were mostly reasonable in it and would create the situation for just the last new piece. you know, the real solution is, is on, it's on the negotiating table. you know, we need an u. s. needs indigo. she kind of a new and talk with, with russian artist the daytime and taught where the us and russia,

because strategic partners to support the peace and stability throughout the world . but especially in europe. and we can do that by reading to, uh, you know, have the war on drugs. so russia, pulling back all us troops, 20000 us troops from eastern europe withdrawing all of our nuclear weapons from, from europe, with some reciprocal reciprocal concessions on the russian side. and then restoring full diplomatic and traits last week we should have a free trade treaty with, with russia. we should have, you know, totally engagement. we should, we should give them a sphere of influence. and you know, all the former soviet republics except for the baltic states and the mature they can give us your thoughts in, in western uh, the western hemisphere. but uh, i think uh, the advantages of hope here is the community is a champion apiece. uh president trump is a chair going to be is these pick some, some new cause? some very good want to america 1st service, but also some neo cons that don't want peace. and i think he's going to get very

frustrated with those new context. and he's going to twist their arms and make them agreed, you know, accept the terms that are accept the whole to, to moscow. yeah. well, i had a jack in san francisco. i think they died from day one of the, the, the deep state or the bureaucratic state, the permanent state. they're going to turn ukraine in to donald trump's biggest nightmare. and we already see it happening because jack with the ideas that david just a numerator on rock are good ideas. i couldn't disagree. cope with being paid for doing any of them. jack. yeah, well, you know, uh, this is not just the conflict in ukraine. uh, i wrote an article in january 22 before the hot war began entitled 10 reasons why the us, they want russia to invade ukraine. there's a lot to be game for the empire by initiating, continuing this war. you know,

before the war us was losing, as well as with the nato. well, now they've totally, you know, captured, recaptured nato again. and one of the main objectives of the war, i say, wish to drive russia out of western europe economically. and the us to, uh, you know, penetrate into europe and take over the energy reading some of the other industries . well, the u. s. a. empire has been totally successful amount objective. there's other objectives as well involved with before. not just defeating russia on the ground, and that's one reason why i think they're going to continue this conflict in some shape or other even under trump. well, i mean it, it, yeah, i think this is going to be with us all for a very long time. it's interesting, jack, what you said, i mean the united states is very kind to its allies. so it isn't, it doesn't mean they destroy its energy infrastructure. it wrap it in place and sag nation. and this is all because you're a member of nato. it's really remarkable, scott, i'll bet you. i'm not a really a betting man,

but whatever outcome there is, it's good to go back to the diplomatic notes that russia sent to the united states and to nato uh, in december, before the february of 2022 with good. that's the roadmap and they're going to refer back to it. i bet you anything they're going to do that, scott. and i think you're a 100 percent correct? uh, the the, you know, at the time rushes submitted these draft treaties to nato into the united states. so they were marked him, the western circles is unrealistic of what is russia think they're doing because the perception was the rush was operate from a position of weak us. so today, i don't think anybody's thinks the rush is operating from a position of weakness. and these draft documents suddenly become an extraordinarily well fraud out pieces of diplomacy that could create a european security framework that could engender the kind of stability that was

spoken of that has a western sphere of f. once a russians fear of life, importance, and not a of, in, in the 2 sides, not being a conflict. but here's the problem. the nato does the russians. a threat in russia is a threat that because russia threatened the state of, but because nato has defined its very existence as being predicated on a need to confront russia existentially. therefore, the failure to defeat russia has led to a situation where data is in danger of collapsing. you know, you speak of the united states coming in and disrupting other european economies and take it over. good. congratulations, america you did. it did in the united states predict the rise of a alternative for don't let in the fact that if it lands and it's heavy on a trajectory of victory, jeremy withdraw from the you, which means jeremy withdrawals from the data. that's not what the united states wanted. did they predict the parliamentary outcome in france now that protest tried

to avoid, but he kept his government, the government's collapsing now of pro peace. the sympathetic russian parliament might come in the united states and predict that europe is devolving, collapsing re defining itself. and so that's the only reason why these russian draft treaties may not be viable anymore, because they were drafted with a strong unified you're in mind. i don't think you're a big sister anymore, and i don't think it's going to exist. so there's going to have to be of russia in the united states or to this out. i think europe is based on the 5 itself. i absolutely agree here. you know, it's interesting, it's got the, you know, they, they, they, they, you had all the variables, the sanctions in the oil embargo, all days. they had all of these things figured out except for, oh, democracy. they didn't take that into account and now it's coming at a blow black. i'm blowing back at them david, you know,

where is maga in all of this? i'm really quite bewildered. okay. the trump ran on this very openly. okay. i don't think anybody to agree or i'll solve with a 24 hours. okay. that, that was campaign hyperbole. but you know where he is maggie in this foreign policy . i'm getting a little worried. go ahead and salt lake city. a well truck is and it has made a few really good goods, you know, uh, tulsa gabber, guys and some other folks like that that i think you're going to give them some good advice. and most notably, journeyman, i mean, judy vance is very vocal opponent of the war. and ukraine is, he was wanted to end it yesterday. and he's, he's going to be a visual and drugs here are telling them to, you know, to be, to all cal, lots ridiculous new proposals for, for ceasefire. peace with russia. so, you know, in my opinion, you should have sent judy bands to be that special ed boy to negotiate the,

the rest of the brand. he's pretty much, and by the way this, this needs to be a us rush or a piece for you pray and does not need to be involved. us represents the praise interest and zalinski is out a lot of the piece piece uh, negotiations with uh, the russian federation. so he is private to be uh, you know, not a rely on target for peace. truck is, is, or israel. i am a part of the visa, fine, of course is a joke. uh, he spent 10 minutes of the last 3 years talking about ukraine, basically is reading out our position or opposition to rushes invasion, which is essentially kind of a preemptive invasion to roll back on, you know, went through all expansion and can you create and restore your brand to it's a peaceful buffer, state neutral buffer states tass, a pre made onto. so i, i still hopeful, but the more i've heard about the kellogg plan, the more discouraged i am in terms of an immediate solution. well, as i experience,

as i said in my and at the end of my introduction, the slaughter continues. gentlemen, i really appreciated very thoughtful program and that's all the time we have one. i think my guess in washington, dc, salt lake city and in san francisco. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are the see next time. and remember, cross knuckles the, the, the,

the, [000:00:00;00] the impulse near to any kind of leads to the, the articles and you might, it's a 3 other engineers release to see them as well. you mean, you know, probably my name died. so that's literally ridiculous. this is kind of shows my list of most of detail is typical, of course, get the better which the portables see when you're feeling tediousness doors,

the story from a date to the finance 0, it's a good key and our phone yet. and so that's the the, i'm actually in redundancy and welcome back to going underground will cause to go around the world from the u. a. in the heart of the middle east on the day 38 years ago. the welded confirmation of these rails may be 200 nuclear weapons. go to see the usa apologize of that for go. and one of hollywood stopped film producers. israel has to this day, not come clean. the nuclear whistle blower motor car avenue new would be honey draft and kid that from london by room for his revelations before decades on

torture in his riley prison. the world today tends to the prospect of the use of those nuclear weapons by u. s. u. k. u back to israel, this after a run, finally retaliated for the gaza genocide. the test run this as a nation of palestine chief negotiator attacks on their radian diplomats and the killing of thousands in bay ridge to a res iconic lebanese resistance need to pass on this route. i would circle genocide. jo, how it goes tyra's, now, presiding over millions, display skilled a wounded, mostly women and children right across this region. i'm drawing now from rome by alice to cook. you k, diplomat in full that you foreign policy chief advisor. he's the founder and director of the baby base complex for him and all of the resistance, the essence of the as the mist revolution. thank you so much. alice have a joining us again. it's been a while. lots happened in the era as you're on the going on the route. i think in the beginning of this year, you can see from the headlines. is there any one of course story, and that's

a do by based a gulf,