electricity and heating surfaces on the left bank of the east or river. on the right bank, both electricity and gas prices are rising. but there are also plants for a possible rolling blackout in the future. there are alternatives to the current situation, but the main problem is the supply of electricity and gas from western countries. the increase in price is due to the supply as a major concern. we can see this happening and it is unlike the situation in transit in yesterday where there are other options for gas and electricity supply and right bank, moldova. however, these alternatives would be very expensive and would significantly worse in the living standards of the most open people for that. so for me, this sunday, much appreciated having your company, you know, new will be in the hot seats at the top of the next hour. i think i'll be able to join him, the

hello and welcome to was a part of the school has witnessed a long procession of blocks once flying in all directions. but now there are circling the middle east, a series of terrorist attacks and masses missile exchanges between israel and its share adversaries has once again brought the situation to the brink of original conflict. swimming we catch in washington of guards or unable to respond effectively. where does these percolation of a new war believe the old ones we'll discuss that i'm now joined by david crayton, page politician and the leader of the heritage party that's occurring. that's great to see you this morning. thank you very much for your time. nice, thanks. it's really good to join you as well. now, the middle east has been a source of instability,

are very turbulent area for quite some time. but there's been a very noticeable, very vivid escalation over the last couple of weeks. how do take and do thing is just another seasonal flare up, or is it something more serious, more consequential, you will have problems and i'm at least go back in some, at least 75 years. but this current flare up started on the 7th of october with the actions of the mass. and that was a very strange thing because they could get over the most secure border, the wells. i don't understand that myself, but then obviously since then it split up more and more. israel is retaliated completely out of proportion to what happens on the 7th of october. and now they're trying to draw in other countries and not just fighting against the mass and gaza strip. they've opened the front against the lebanon bombing lebanon that they've bones the irrelevant wrong day. they killed the leaders of mass and the end is out

in the apartment building and they knew wrong, and they bombing syria and that during taking actions in the west bank. so this really is an escalation, a big escalation. this happens in the last couple of weeks and doing what i think the world was horrified. a couple of weeks ago when they were all these page explosions and exploding walkie talkies, the count, some has bought a fight as yes, but lots of in assume to women and children as well. now, israel as a, as a national, after it's national behavior, is a, pretty much the products of the west. it wouldn't be able to be what it is. it wouldn't be able to behave as it behaves without substantial military diplomatic financial support from the west. but there is a paradox here because i think at this point of time, it's national behavior. it's asked, is it odds both with the democratic administration in the united states and perhaps more broadly with the interest of the west? is it still an asset to the west?

is it still a genuine ally in the k? more era is right? it was seen there was no question because these riley was on the side of the west against communism. and now, since the full of the building bowl, since the fall of communism, things have changed. and, you know, we have a decade where russia was very, very much, you know, we warm relationship with the west in the, you know, the, the late ninety's early 2, thousands. but i think now people are changing. so, you know, this is a long change of, uh, a few decades of course, with no longer in the cold war. so we're not, we're not fighting the total now. so now people are really questioning a lot what is riley is doing. and i think the thing that people are looking at is that response in killing tens of thousands of women and children in gaza. and a lot of people are absolutely horrified by that. even people who previously supported israel. so that questioning, well, well, what are we doing here? what is this country doing?

why are we giving so much military support and political support to the country that actually is going round? you know, and it's, it's definitely the politically cleansing dog. some people use the word genocide, you know, it's, but the beginnings of that and that goes again. so one of the values and principles that we say we hold the are in the west. so let me ask you about that specifically because it's not only about the valleys but the house about commonsense, basic commonsense and your own sense of self preservation. and what i find paradoxical about the western decision making is that the west, on the one hand, eagerly picks up battles to be a very powerful nuclear armed opponents like russia and with damaged, prefers confrontations, kinetic confrontation over negotiations. but when it comes to suppose it allies like israel is the other way around, it seems to be open to being used to being manipulated to being

sidelined or ignored. it doesn't seem to have the god, so they ask human to sort of change that dynamic, that the relational dynamic in its own favor. how to explain that. obviously the most powerful country in the west, the kind of but the country that pretty much from the show is the united states and the volume and administration has a lot of people who haven't joined us is variety, citizenship. so you're is royal in the united states, a pretty much wanting the same in terms of, you know, where the people who are making the decisions. you know, you go on to the blinking, you've got lindsey gray and you've got victoria new and all of them of joint is ready citizenship. so they're very much thing 10 and support israel because you've got all these people that do are as ready citizens as well. but also the other thing is the power adults because some of these people actually have a lot of antagonism to,

to russia. and this was explained by my friend gonzales leah rob, show people what she showed knows him, it was killed in you, cried and he did a very good explanation of it. as for example, look up a tory, a knew that she's a defendant of people who uh, uh, forced to leave and ukraine, 2 or 3 generations ago and pulled drums as they possibly have some kind of self conscious intergenerational, and unplug it, isn't even hatred. a russia because of what happened a, a long, long time ago. and, you know, there are people around like that. and then some other people go to the lengths of saying that they want raising change in russia because they, they've instigated the cause of revolution obviously. and ukraine in the 2014, they tried to do a call the reputation and batteries back in 2020. the idea is they would do that in roster as well. but then in terms of the money people is riley is either it's,

it's the stalking horse in the middle east because they, they want to take some of the landing dollars though you've already got people setting up property agents to sell the landing dollars that from where people have been ethnically cleanse and it's a base in order to apply military operations to bomb syria to bomb iraq. and there's a lot of american companies in that taking the way out of syria taking a lot of their off. can i ask you a specifically about this relationship between the united states and israel? you said that that one of the same and i think we broadly agree that israel is ultimately a creature of the west, but it wouldn't have been possible to exist for israel. the way i know it exists today without the substantial support the western powers. but the west has to operate within view and it's and it seems like like israel right now can operate

within period to even though the west doesn't particularly like it. i wonder if, in some strange way is really is giving the united states and there was more broadly a taste of what's on the policy is that it's some strange sort sort of deal political come up ends of actually being faced with the consequences of your own policies in non other than your partner or a country that you call your partner? yeah, i mean i get to say something even more detail. you can come to the city. yeah. it's a jewish projects. obviously it is the jewish state and the people who are the main move is behind creating israel. yeah. old way. they were in the west, the with jewish people, the role styles, families, etc. who provided a lot of the money in the beginning to buy outlines to support these, right, these states and that continues today. obviously, as i said, the special help from the united states and be your and security council, or with the military supplies, etc. i mean, be,

is really profit started perhaps as a and is really initiative, but the wave survives and the way the, you know, grabs land a lot of nations. i mean, wouldn't it be possible without the west of other things? so no of course, no, because it is supported with a lot of money and we've ministry support from the west. we give weight from bottom billions and pounds. the israel and ministry support is protected specifically from the united states and is going that every single. yeah, yeah, of course a wouldn't be able to survive without the lifeline. i think, you know, is riley is one of the top beneficiaries of aids from the united states. of course, i can speak most about the united kingdom and i think this is reflected in the us as well. is that the 2 main legacy policies inside we call them, the conservatives and labor. they both have within the parties, very, very powerful lobbying groups for israel. there is the conservative friends of his route and is the labor of friends of israel, and many,

many people in the top of the government of the u. k. today, all members of labor of friends of israel, i may receive donations from this organization, as the conservative ministers did to a large extent during their 14 years previous. the key installment coming in the i'm gonna tell you something which i, i made a video about on my youtube, a few people who've seen it. but when i 1st was elected to the london assembly, which was 2016. i was taken to jerusalem. i wouldn't say i'm tied to it and i wasn't good bundle them through their opinion or something. but i was, you know, i'm invited to a conference in jerusalem about freedom and democracy. i went to nice to all. this is great. i'm just going to go and meet some people and this is very nice. i had a visit to because that sits on my trip. and while i was there, i, we, we were all taken into a room in the back of the can. they said we had a men meeting with the member of the can. i said,

and i didn't know this was going to happen. but he drew out something which is called a jerusalem declaration, which is something that we were off to sign in the sort of co as of environment. and it says that, you know, you will put the interest that means right this time is the only person that didn't sign it because i didn't want to sign something that was going to make me e. like beholden to something, make that declaration. but most of the people didn't sign it and you know, part of it back. and i think what was that old about as time is going on, i realize that, you know, they were a couple of american congressmen with me on the trip. but i realize that almost everybody who becomes a congressman, i understand that that is expected to sign or off the sign this jerusalem declaration, which made them play just personally to support the nation of israel. they have to take a short break. let's stop for a moment, but we will be back to the discussion in

a few moments they tune the, [000:00:00;00] the test, the year ends, the incoming trump administration continues to believe it can end the conflict in

ukraine. trump and his people are beginning to understand ending this conflict is more difficult in starting a war. the problem is moscow cube and washington wants different outcomes. the welcome back to roles the parts with david kirsten, british, politician and leader of the heritage party. as a person just before the break here you're, you're sure this very interesting experience demonstrating how strength israel is about exerting its influence. and how little uh, if cares about the other countries. because, um, you know, we would presume that all those british, our american politicians would have a legions to that people 1st rather than people of israel. now i want to ask about that because the american politics has been in disarray for a couple of years. but now,

particularly we saw by them is ling doc. and it happened that this precise moment is their own, chose not only to escalate in gaza, but also to open up to additional fronds in love and on, in iran. do you think it did it on purpose simply because it's main sponsor, it's main ally. it happens to be destructive. yeah, i think the timing is very, very interesting because you've got the president selection just coming up. president trump is likely to be re elected. but at the moment, the united states being title, as soon as he said biden is not knowing whether he's coming or going for a couple of years. come all the house is not the brightest bulb in the box springs . take it. i think many people with thing the same. i'm so everyone around the wells, you know, it is able to just try to do things. and so now israel, particularly to get things done in this moment where there is chaos in the united states. and, you know, obviously this is related a little bit to what's happening in ukraine because everyone can see that is not

going how the western leaders wanted it to go. so israel is probably be looking at this and thinking well, now is the time to do something. but let's go back to 2003 and the start of the iraq war. and i'm sure you, and a lot of people will be aware of the speech given by general wesley clark, when he talked about the united states a well, the west of getting to war with 7 countries. so there was a rock, lebanon, syria, libby, a sudan. i think somalia, that is i go on the one to the guy was there as well. yeah. yeah. they were gonna end up with the wrong. and that was the going to be the final country that they were gonna get to war with, and cause instability in. and then, you know, basically plumbing to the assets and put in a little puppet. so what, uh, we have a great a for change to see how it all plays out. the nice thing of demonstrate is that the

main problem with western decision making is well to put in the diplomatically the shortage of strategic for side. because all those words, 2 words in iraq health strength and iran ultimately be meddling in syria empowered. radical islam is groups like ices and a lot to a huge migrant wave into western europe. if either a worse or habits way in loveland on, in iran. if it succeeded to in toppling the rainy and government and how do you think it's likely to influence decision not only in the region, but also let's say in our hemisphere because the implications would be larger than the middle east. the point of the was the being waged by the people in the didn't state is not to the top of the regime and then put in a raise even rebuild the country. they say that's what what they want to do. but the point seems to be, to cause chaos. and the only in those countries,

they are also causing care is that the care says reaching their shores as well. i mean, it's definitely me reaching west in your a maybe a, in a couple of years at the real range of the u. k. shores as well. what is already reaching the you guys, what was the, how do you know we, we have a, a huge number of military aids mail, my friends coming across the the channel illegally and now we've got a 100 and $50000.00 to run the asylum system, the mainly you about this asylum seekers, but they come from these countries mostly on man, middle women and children, which is means, which is why they think they genuine refugees as such, but they're coming in to the u. k. and then there's tie else in the u. k. as well with an increase in crime is adding to the housing crisis. there's millions of pounds being spent on these people who have come into the u. k. and this is all a result of the was which should be waged over the last 20 years. i mean, absolutely, i agree with you and it's, it's not to be insane to me that the worst one, perhaps,

for the european situation is the water, libya, because i get that see actually, all that he's, he's obviously not popular with the powers that be in the west, he was very good because he held back the tide of migrants he wants to come from africa since he's gone. and that was, you know, 12 years ago now there's been a lot of migrant started through libya and then that obviously was added to with the was in syria and, and the rock. and now you've got new migrant move starting to take place from lebanon. and if we get to will with the on, i say, you know, i think that is to be the worst possible thing that anyone in the west could try to do. but if there is some kind of a ministry, a taco new, wrong, massive bombing of the wrong people are losing their houses and they become a homeless. what a lot of them are just going to slot into europe as well. you know, i don't blame them, but that's going to be, you know, very bad for a consonant which really isn't coping very well with the millions of migrants that

we already have because of the was that have been waged by the governments of all nations. uh huh. now, perhaps we would the both agree that the west is not very good at the ending. it's more responsibly. it tends to sort of shifted attention to another conflict. and maybe it's a wishful thinking on my part. but the thinking about the conflict in your brain, i have a slight hold of, uh, the west uh, seeing the intensity in the middle east. um, also experiencing its own fatigue around the, the premium conflict, the progression. do you think it's possible that somehow it's thinking about the ukranian situation may shift towards the perhaps in ping, distracted them loving ukraine and russia figure it out between themselves? i hope so. and i think some people are starting to realize that, for example, schultz and chancellor of, of germany is said he's not going to provide. he's told us cruise missiles to ukraine, which is a good state. and i mean, that's a good sign in the way. i mean,

they've been up to now being quite belligerent, but they, they've not doing that. and hopefully people are starting to see since you even, you're even getting pieces written in some of the mainstream media outlets saying, but ross, who was doing very well now that balancing at increasing pace and the don't bass of the eastern ukraine, they changed the topics and this is putting the ukrainian all me eat the on the box and indeed the from in the don't box is collapsing and the color skin cogent didn't go as they wanted. it's, you know, a couple of months ago when the ukranian forces went into the coast region. oh, the main stream, media and politicians with sharing that on. i mean, upholding late because of the loss of life that they were doing that. but now that housing was how they thought to me being pushed back and, and everything that the, the crating and forces present lensky regime under the patronage of the west to try

to do isn't working. and people can see that. so i think people are disgusted with what's going on with the sending huge amounts of money to the lens in terms of weapons that cable russians, when actually we're taking money away from people that have been one of the big things in the you tell you that i know about domestically is that the current labor government have taken one and a half 1000000000 pounds away from pension is with something called the winter fuel allowance. and that is just gives them a little bit of money to see them for the winter to heat their homes. but the taking that away and giving twice as much lensky. and as long as this goes on, the moon, people are disgusted with the billions and billions of pounds years in dollars which are being sent to ukraine. well, public said this isn't helps the people here being caused them to child. ok. well mr. gordon, i hope that people are not just disgusted, but also bring their disgust, do they pull additions so that the politicians can change the course?

now you mentioned the german literature being somewhat of restraint in terms of sending long range missiles to russia and allowing them to be used against the russian territory. but this discussion is ongoing and british media. and the brits seem to be very belligerent when it comes to any kind of attacks against a restaurant or where do you see it going? do you think it's just the sort of the public discussion or if may go in into an actual escalation? we have in the, in the u. k. is what i call it a uni party. we, we've called conservative something called the lady, but they say they have rights and that's but right, exactly identical in terms of policy. so what we've got now is salma, but he's basically a continuation of johnson. and the soon i can, who is a continuation of my and camera on and brown and black before the barrel with united by city getting in the same direction, stalling. there is absolutely the gun hope of sending weapons to ukraine for them to buy

a deep into russian territory. that's what he wants. that's what he's going forward . he even went over to the united states to ask permission, most typically an incredibly bite and said no, he didn't get permission for this to happen at the time. so i mean that, that came out of nowhere, even though it's a good thing because it's actually the wrong thing to do. it would be a disastrous and reckless escalation of the conflict. is that what's happened? but i would make a distinction between the politicians and the people because the people increasingly are against this, they're against escalating. well we can see now the overall for 1000000 ukrainians have died. you know, including lots of young man who are being press gang going to the front line. you don't even want to have anything to do with fighting. and, and this again, is really pushing the consciences of the people in the west and who are different to the governments who seem to be on another level of wanting to escalate to more

intentions because they still invested in taking back hold of the land in ukraine. because there's a lot of money, but owing to they want to get in take control of the mines in the minerals. in fact, they say even being said, and some of the mainstream media reports, there's 4 trillion or 10 trillion dollars worth of assets and minerals in the don't boss on black rock and other west and multinational companies and, and spends one of those assets in order to be able to take money out of ukraine. that's where they're concerned with. they're not concerned with people. they're not concerned with russians and ukrainians together. you know, young man, uh, killing each other for the people in the powers that be who are in charge and who are making the money. and that is disgusting to a lot of people forgive me for saying that. but i thing if you're, if you're leaving the in, in the country that you're doing democratic, you do bear some responsibility for the accidents of your, of your leaders. and that applies both to me as

a russian. and i assume to british people when they consider the policy as a fuel nation because, you know, saw some people, there are some politicians there on, not just the threatening of, i mean they're, they're contributing to the, as he said to the killing of many, many thousands of our soldiers and, you know, our ukranian neighbors. now, there's been some recent changes in russia's military doctrine with president put in announcing the and of the so called a nuclear immunity of the non nuclear states. and nuclear states will no longer be a sort of in joining this pretends of in a sense, when they send weapons to the ukranian slunk line and pretend that they are not involved in conflict. if those weapons i used against russia surgery, rob to retains the right to retaliate directly. and i assume if russian does so, it may affect, you know, civilians in the west as well. do you think a proposition like that is likely to sort of uh, bring some, some bride to,

to the way the. c british public, the british leadership is approaching this issue. well, i have say, but, you know, president putin as being warning about, known escalating for but, and since the beginning of the conflicts, and this is something that the west didn't needs to get involved in the, the most shameful thing that the west has done was done by the voters, johnson in april 2022. when there was a peace deal agreed between president putin and zalinski, and jonathan went to the landscape with other people and persuaded him not to sign it and to carry on fighting. todd is absolutely upholding on the stain on nation and because of that, hundreds of thousands of more people have died. but do you know what, what president clinton is saying now is, don't fire cruise and his sorrows into russia? you know, which is absolutely reasonable. because in the west, the lead is always going to say one of the war with russia. we don't have well with

russia, but then they do everything to act in a manner that they are a war with their, all, their, their supplying weapons and expertise on the satellite imagery. i mean, what have, uh, what else do you need to provide? i mean, other than the actual soldiers, but the funding, the servicing of this war continues with the western help. yeah, of course. i mean, you know, you can make the old. so the philosophical argument, you know, if you give someone a gun and they shoot to someone and kills someone who's responsible, the person who ex, shot the gun on this new guy. but she to the guy and you know, they both responsible and, and this is the situation. the west is in the development of what we're doing. and you know, back to your point about the west and the people bearing some responsibilities for the governments. they elect, well, yes, i mean, and that's why i've, you know, the political part, the heritage policy, which is saying, among many obvious things that were opposed to more we shouldn't be getting involved in the policy conflicts around the world except to try to deescalate

things. and speak peace and get people to stop fighting and stop killing each other . the so i stood candidates and the reason general election. unfortunately, you know, we didn't have enough people wanting to come and stand for us to stand everywhere in both for us. well, um mr. kirsten, we have to leave it there, but thank you very much for being with us today. okay, thank you for watching hope to hear again on the world's a part, the other on many places in the world where you can say you're on the divide between the 2 oceans and the you might not think kids. what does this, hey, and what is northern or found guest vision in the can or is that us national park? and today we know the stuff was i'm taking a deep side interest,

which because of the, the outgoing us secretary of state said miss flooding. you'd crane with weapons long before the 2022 conflict broke out. and that's this fight forcing things. suppose it pro peace thumbs up the time. we saw it coming. we were able to make sure that not only we prepared analysing partners are prepared with ukraine, was prepared. we quietly got a lot of weapons to, to ukraine, to make sure that they had in hand. but they needed to defend themselves, things like sting or traveling. so that they could use go by and raised his eyebrows by owner and hillary clinton and george soros with the highest us civilian award. controversial trunk records,