hello, and welcome to worlds of par. baseball has witnessed a long procession of blacks once flying in all directions, but now they are circling the middle east. a series of terrorist attacks and masses missile exchanges between israel and its share adversaries, has once again brought the situation to the brink of original conflict, seemingly catching washington of a guard or unable to respond effectively. where does these percolation of a new war believe the old ones we'll discuss that i'm now joined by david crayton, faithful edition, and the leader of the heritage party to start cursing. that's great to see you this morning. thank you very much for your time. nice. thanks, it's really good to join you as well. now, the middle east has been a source of instability, are very turbulent area for quite some time. but there's been a very noticeable, very vivid escalation over the last couple of weeks. how do take and do thing is just another seasonal flare up, or is it something more serious,

more consequential? you will have problems and i'm at least go back ultimately 75 years. but this current flare up started on the 7th of october with the actions of some ass one. that was a very strange thing because they could get over the most secure border in the wells. i don't understand that myself. um, but then obviously since then it split up more and more. israel is retaliated completely out of proportion to what happened on the 7th of october. and now they're trying to draw in other countries. they're not just fighting against the mass in the gaza strip. they've opened the front of games, lebanon bombing, lebanon, the they bones the irrelevant wrong day. they killed the leaders of mass in the, in his, out, in the apartment building and in iran. and they both being syria and they're doing taking actions in the west by and so this really is an escalation, a big escalation. this happens in the last couple of weeks and doing what i think

the world was horrified. a couple of weeks ago when they were all of these page explosions and exploding walkie talkies, the count some has bought outside does. yes, but lots of innocent women and children as well. now, israel as a, as a national, after it's national behavior, is a, pretty much the products of the west. it wouldn't be able to be what it is. it wouldn't be able to behave as it behaves without substantial military diplomatic financial support from the west. but there is a paradox here because i think at this point of time, it's national behavior. it's asked, is it odds both with the democratic administration in the united states and perhaps more broadly with the interest of the west? is it still an asset to the west? is it still a genuine? allied in the k, more era is right. it was seen there was no question because these realities on the side of the west against communism. and now, since the full of the building bulls,

since the fall of communism, things have changed. and, you know, we had a decade where russia was very, very much, you know, in the warm relationship with the west in the, you know, the, the late ninety's early 2, thousands. but i think now people are changing. so, you know, this is a long change of, uh, a few decades. of course, we're no longer in the cold war, so we're not, we're not fighting that total now. so now people are really questioning a lot what is riley is doing. i think the thing that people are looking at is that response in killing tens of thousands of women and children in gaza. and a lot of people are absolutely horrified by that. even people who previously supported israel. so that questioning, well, well, what are we doing here? what, what is this country doing? why are we giving so much military support and political support? so a country that actually is going round, you know, and it's, it's definitely the likely clinton's in gaza. some people use the word genocide,

you know, it's, but the beginnings of that and that goes against all of the values and principles that we say we hold the are in the west. so let me ask you about that specifically because it's not only about the valleys but the house about commonsense, basic commonsense and your own sense of self preservation. and what i find paradoxical about the western decision making is that the west, on the one hand, eagerly picks up battles to be a very powerful nuclear armed opponents, like russia and with damage, prefers confrontation, kinetic confrontation over negotiations. but when it comes to suppose it allies like israel is the other way around, it seems to be open to being used to being manipulated to being sidelined or ignored. it doesn't seem to have the god, so they ask human to sort of change that dynamic, that the relational dynamic in its own favor. how to explain that. obviously the most powerful country in the west,

the con. but the country that pretty much from the show is the united states and the buying and administration has a lot of people who haven't joined us is riley citizenship. so used to the israel in the united states, a pretty much one and the same in terms of, you know, where the people who are making the decisions. you know, you go on to the blinking, you've got lindsey gray and you've got victoria new and all of them i've joint is ready citizenship. so they're very much thing 10 and support israel because you've got all these people that do or is ready citizens as well. but also, the other thing is a power those because some of these people actually have a lot of antagonism to, to russia. and this was explained by my friend gonzales leah rob, show people what she showed. notice him who was killed in you, cried and he did a very good explanation of this. for example, look at victoria knew that she's

a descendant and people who are forced to leave the ukraine 2 or 3 generations ago and paul drums that they possibly have some kind of sub conscious intergenerational. i'm talking to isn't even hatred of russia because of what happened a, a long, long time ago. and you know, there are people around like that. and then some other people go to the length of saying that they want raising change in russia because they, they've instigated the cause of revolution. obviously in ukraine. in the 2014, they tried to call the revolution and batteries back in 2020. the idea is they would do that in russia as well, but then in terms of the money people is riley, is either it's the still king holes in the middle east because they, they want to take some of the landing dollars though you've already got people setting up property agents to sell the landing dollars that from where people have

been ethnically cleanse. and it's a base in order to fly military operations to bones, syria, to bomb the rock. and there's a lot of american companies in that taking the oil out of syria taking a lot of their off. can i ask you a specifically about this relationship between the united states and israel? you said that that one of the same and i think we broadly agree that israel is ultimately a creature of the west, but it wouldn't have been possible to exist for israel. the way i know it exists today without the substantial support the western powers. but in the west has to operate within viewing it. janet seems like like israel right now can operate within period to even though the west doesn't particularly like it. i wonder if, in some strange way is really is giving the united states and there was more broadly a taste of what's on the policy is that it's some strange sort sort of deal political

come up ends of actually being faced with the consequences of your own policies in non other than your partner or a country that he call you a part there. yeah, i mean i get to say something even more detail. you can come to the city. yeah. it's a jewish projects. obviously it is the jewish state and the people who are the main move is behind creating israel. yeah. old way. they were in the west, the with jewish people, the role stalls, families, etc. who provided a lot of the money in the beginning to buy outlines to support these, right, these states and that continues today. obviously, as i said, the special help from the united states in the year and security council with the military supplies, etc. i mean, b is really proctor, it started perhaps as a and is really initiative, but the wave survives and the way the, you know, brabs land of all the nations. i mean, wouldn't be, it'd be possible without the west of other things. so no of course, no,

because it is supported with a lot of money and we've got a tree support from the west. we give way from bottom billions and pounds. the israel and ministry supports protects it specifically from the united states and is going that every single. yeah, yeah, of course a wouldn't be able to buy without that lifeline. i think, you know, is riley is one of the top beneficiaries of aids from the united states. of course, i can speak most about the united kingdom and i think this is reflected in the us as well. is that the 2 main legacy policies. and so i would call them the conservatives and labor they both have within the parties. very, very powerful. lobbying grieves stories, royal berries, the conservative friends of his route and is the labor of friends of israel. and many, many people in the top of the government of the you type today, all members of labor of friends of israel, i may receive donations from this organization, as the conservative ministers did to

a large extent during their 14 years previous. the key installment coming in the i'm gonna tell you something which i, i made a video about on my youtube. a few people have seen it, but when i 1st was elected to the london assembly, which was 2016, i was taken to jerusalem. i wouldn't say, i'm sorry, i wasn't bundled into an advertising or something, but i was, you know, i'm invited to a conference in jerusalem about freedom and democracy. i went to nice to all. this is great. i'm just going to go and meet some people. and this is very nice, i had a visit to connect, sits on my trip. and while i was there i, we, we were all taken into a room in the back of the contest that we had have been meeting with the member of the can. i said, and i didn't know this was going to happen, but he drew out something which is called a jerusalem declaration, which is something that we were off to sewing in the sort of co operative

environment. and it says that, you know, you will put the interest of these around this time, is there any person that didn't sign it? because i didn't want to sign something that was going to make the united beholden to something like that. they could, i should. but most of the people didn't sign it and you know, part of it back. and i think what was that old about as time is going on, i realize that, you know, they were a couple of american congressmen with me on the trip. but i realize that almost every body who becomes a congressman, i understand that that is expected to sign or off the sign this jerusalem declaration, which makes them play just personally to support the nation of israel. we have to take a short break. let's stop for a moment, but we will be back to the discussion in a few moments they tune the

the russian states. never as one of the most sense be the best english i'll send send up the send, the 6595 and speed. the one else calls course about this, even though we will fan in the european union the kremlin mission,

the state on the russians cruising and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. what question did you say? even closer to the welcome back to rosa parks with david kirsten, british, politician, leader of the heritage party. mr. kirsten, just for the break here you're, you're share this very interesting experience. demonstrating how sure the israel is about exerting its influence. and how little uh, if cares about the other countries because um, you know, we would presume that all those british are american politicians would have a legions to that people 1st rather than people of israel. now i want to ask about

that because. c the american politics has been in disarray for a couple of years, but now particularly we saw by them is ling dock. and it happened that at this precise moment, israel chose not only to escalate in gaza, but also to open up 2 additional friends in loveland on in iran. do you think it did it on purpose simply because it's main sponsor, it's main ally. it happens to be destructive. yeah, i think the timing is very, very interesting because you've got the president selection just coming up. president trump is likely to be re elected. but at the moment of the united states being title some, as you said, biden is not knowing whether he's coming or going for a couple of years. come all the house is not the brightest bulb in the box springs take it. i think many people would think the same. i'm so everyone around the wells, you know, it is able to just try to do things. and so now israel,

particularly to get things done in this moment where there is chaos in the united states. and, you know, obviously this is related a little bit to what's happening in ukraine because everyone can see that he's not going how the western leaders wanted it to go. so it's ro, this probably be looking at this and thinking, well, now is time to do something. but let's go back to 2003, and the start of the iraq war. and i'm sure you and a lot of people will be aware of the speech given by general, weighs the clock we talked about the united states, a well, the west of getting to war with 7 countries. so it was a rock, lebanon, syria, libby, a sudan, austin, somali of us as i go on the one to know the guy was there as well. yeah. yeah, but did they ever gonna end up with the wrong? and that was the gonna be the final country that they were gonna get to will with unclosing stability in and then you know,

basically plug into the assets and put in a little puppet. so what, uh, what do we have a great opportunity to see how it all played out? and i think it demonstrates the main problem with western decision making is well, to put it the diplomatically the shortage of strategic for side. because all those words, 2 words in iraq, health strength and iran, ultimately the meddling in syria empowered radical islamic groups like ices and a lot to a huge migrant wave into western europe. if either a worse or habits, way in lab and on in iran, if it succeeded in toppling the range and government. and how do you think it's likely to influence decision not only in the region, but also let's say in our hemisphere, because the implications would be larger than the middle east. the point of the was the being waged by the people in the didn't state is not to the top of the regime

and then put in a raise even rebuild the country. they say that's what what they want to do. but the point seems to be, to cause chaos and the in those countries, they're also causing cares about the care. so is reaching their source as well. i mean, it's definitely me reaching west in your a maybe a, in a couple of years. it's really range of the u. k. shores as well. what is already reaching the you guys? what was that? how do you know we, we have a, a huge number of the military aids may have my friends coming across the channel illegally. and now we've got a 150000 who were in the asylum system. the mainly you about this asylum seekers, but they come from these countries mostly on mann middle women and children, which is means which is why they think they genuine refugees as such, but they're coming in to the u. k. and then there's tie else in the u. k as well with an increase in crime is adding to the housing crisis. there's millions of pounds being spent on these people who have come into the u. k. and this is all

a result of the was which should be waged over the last 20 years. i mean, absolutely. i agree with you. and it's, it's often the insane to me that the worst one, perhaps, for the european situation is the water livia, because i get that see actually all that he's, he's obviously not popular with the powers that be in the west. he was very good because he held back the tide of migrants, the ones that come from africa since he's gone. and that was, you know, 12 years ago now there's been a lot of migrant started through libya and then that obviously was added to with the was in syria and, and the rock. and now you've got new migrant move starting to take place from lebanon. and if we get to, well with the on, i say the only thing that is to be the worst possible things that anyone in the west could try to do. but if there is some kind of a ministry of taco new, wrong, massive bombing of the wrong people are losing their houses and they become a homeless. what

a lot of them are just going to flood into europe as well. you know, i don't blame them, but that's going to be, you know, very bad for a consonant which really isn't coping very well with the millions of migrants that we already have because of the was that have been waged by the governments of all nations. uh huh. now, perhaps we would the both agree, but the west is not very good at the ending it's worse responsibly. it tends to sort of shifted attention to another conflict. and maybe it's a wishful thinking on my part. but uh, thinking about the conflict in your brain. i have a slide hope all fuck the west. uh, seeing being time sitting in the middle east. um. also experiencing its own fatigue around the, the premium conflicts, the progression. do you think it's possible that somehow it's thinking about the ukrainian situation may shift towards a perhaps in being distracted letting your crane and rush or figure it out between themselves? and i hope so. and i think some people are starting to realize that,

for example, schultz, i'm john seller of, of germany is said he's not going to provide. he's a taurus cruise missiles to ukraine, which is a good state. and i mean, that's a good sign in the way, i mean, they've been up to now being quite belligerent, but they, they not doing that. and hopefully people are starting to see sense you even, you're even getting pieces written in some of the mainstream media outlets saying, but russell is doing very well now that balancing at increasing pace and the dung bass, they've eastern ukraine. they've changed the tactics. and this is putting you crazy at all me, you know, the on the box and indeed the friends in the don't box is collapsing and the color skin cogent didn't go as they wanted. so, you know, a couple of months ago when the ukranian forces went into the coast region, all the main stream media and politicians with sharing that on, i mean, upholding lee and because of the loss of life that,

that they were doing that. but now that housing was how they thought to me being pushed back and, and everything that the ukrainian forces present lensky regime under the patronage of the west to try to do isn't working in it. and people can see that it's so i think people are disgusted with what's going on with the sending huge amounts of money to the lensky in terms of weapons. the cable russians, when actually we're taking money away from people that hadn't been one of the big things in the you tell you that i know about domestically is that the common labor government have taken one and a half 1000000000 pounds away from pension. is we something called the winter fuel allowance, and that is just gives them a little bit of money to save them for the winter to heat their homes. but the taking the other way of giving twice as much zalinski and as long as goes on the moon, people have disgusted with the billions and billions of pounds years in dollars which are being sent to ukraine. what public services is in health. so people here

being caused them to child. ok. well mr. gordon, i hope that people are not just disgusted, but also bring their discussed to the politicians so that the politicians can change the course. now you mentioned the german literature being somewhat of restraint in terms of sending long range missiles to russia and allowing them to be used against the russian territory. but the discussion is ongoing and british media . and the brits seem to be very belligerent when it comes to any kind of attacks against a restaurant or where do you see it going? do you think it's just the sort of the public discussion or if may go in into an actual escalation? we have in the, in the u. k. is what i call it a uni party. we, we've called conservatives and we call the lady, but they say they have rights and expedited, right? exactly. identical in terms of policy. so what we've got now is salma, but he's basically a continuation of johnson. and the soon i can, who is

a continuation of my and camera and, and brown, and black before them. they're all with united by city getting in the same direction. stallnicher is absolutely the gung ho for sending weapons to ukraine for them to buy a deep into the russian territory. that's what he wants. that's what he's going forward. he even went over to the united states. the was commission massively and incredibly bite and said no, he didn't get permission for this to happen at the time. so i mean that, that came out of nowhere. i think, you know, it's a good thing because it's absolutely the wrong thing to do. it would be a disastrous and reckless escalation of the conflict. is that what's happened? but i would make a distinction between the politicians and the people because the people increasingly are against this, they're against escalating? well, we can see now the overall for 1000000 ukrainians have died. you know, including lots of young men who are being press gang going to the front line. you don't even don't have anything to do with fighting. and, and this again,

is really pushing the consciences of the people in the west and who are different to the governments who seemed to be on another level of wanting to escalate the board intentions because they still invested in taking back hold of the land in ukraine. because there's a lot of money behind it, they want to get in take control of the mines in the minerals. in fact, this even being said, and some of the mainstream media reports, there's 4 trillion or 10 trillion dollars was the assets and minerals in the don't boss on black rock and other west and multinational companies and, and strong one of those assets in order to be able to take money out of ukraine. that's where they're concerned with. they're not concerned with people. they're not concerned with russians and ukrainians together. you know, young man, uh, killing each other for the people and the powers that be who are in charge and who are making the money. and that is disgusting to

a lot of people forgive me for saying that. but i thing if you're, if you're leaving the in, in the country that you're doing democratic, you do bear some responsibility for the accidents of your, of your leaders. and that applies both to me as a russian. and i assume to british people when they consider the policies of your nation because, you know, saw some people, there are some politicians there on, not just the threatening of, i mean they're, they're contributing to the, as he said to the killing of many, many thousands of our soldiers and you know, our ukrainian neighbors. now, there's been some recent changes in russia's military and doctrine with president put in announcing the end of the so called an nuclear immunity of the non nuclear states. and nuclear states will no longer be a sort of in joining these pretends of innocence. when they send weapons to the ukranian slunk line and pretend that they are not involved in conflict. if those weapons are used against russia surgery rusher with change the right to retaliate

directly and i assume a freshman does, so it may affect, you know, civilians in the west as well. do you think a proposition like that is likely to sort of uh, bring some sobriety you to the way in the british public. the british leadership is approaching this issue? well, i hope say, but, you know, president putin has been warning about known escalating for, but since the beginning of the conflicts, and this is something that the west didn't needs to get involved in the, the most shameful thing that the west has done was done by congress johnson in april 2022 when there was a peace deal agreed between president fruits and them zalinski and jonathan went to the landscape with other people and persuaded him not to sign it and to carry on fighting. todd is absolutely upholding on the stain on, on nation and because of that, hundreds of thousands of more people have died. but you know what, what president clinton is saying now is, don't fire cruise missiles into russia,

you know, which is absolutely reasonable. because in the west and the, there's always one to say, what else of war with russia, we don't have well with russia, but then they do everything to act in the amount of the they are a war with the bad. there's flying weapons and expertise, and satellite imagery, i mean, what happens? what else do you need to provide? i mean, other than the actual soldiers, but the funding, the b service thing of this war continues with the western help. yeah, of course. i mean, you know, you can make the old so the south a good argument. you know, if you give someone a gun and they shoot, said someone and can someone who's responsible the person who ex, jumped the gun on this new guy. but she to the gun, you know, they both responsible and this is the situation. the west is in the development of what we're doing and you know, back to your point about the west and the people bearing some responsibility for the governments. they elect. well, yes, i mean, and that's why i have, you know,

the political party and the heritage policy, which is saying, among many obvious things that we're opposed to more, we shouldn't be getting involved in the policy conflicts around the world. except to try to deescalate things. and speak peace and get people to stop fighting and stop giving each other the so i stood candidates in the recent general election. unfortunately, you know, we didn't have enough people wanting to come and stand for us to stand everywhere in both for us. well, mr. kirsten, we have to leave it there, but thank you very much for being with us today. okay, thank you for watching hope to see her again on the world's a part. the as the year ends, the incoming trump administration continues to believe it can end the conflict in ukraine. trump, and as people are beginning to understand and in this conflict is more difficult in

starting a war. the problem is moscow cube, and washington wants different outcomes. the in february 2022, ukraine became the world's number one new story for ukraine, new brand, new credit, a brand new crane question. truth invaded ukraine, named one perspective ukraine suffering from russian english and replacing the main stream media and the nightly news were citing. please develop the scripts that essentially say exactly the same thing using the buzz word. so this is a threat to our democracy. when you see 10 different channels, say exactly that sentence. you know that it's the central intelligence agency script. the role of p r firms in ukraine, throughout europe and into united states really can be overstated. it's quite

different than it was in previous decades where there used to be more of a culver role of propaganda, government propaganda operations. now this is just celebrated as p r in helping ukraine and helping get their message out to us because who's pulling the strings and who is profiting the the, the, the gun and below the, showing the school in murray, opal. o'rando was the length of it off to the battles for the city. ukrainian soldiers turned the children's classrooms into machine guns and doing retreat. they mind the school library in the gym all the.