close and kill people in basements, and apartments who kill them, the ukrainians. who else? what do you mean? killed how? i would just like that. we would think they were russian soldiers. we would go out to hug them. we waited for you for so long. we were so happy that you came here, so it was revenge. yes. they shot at people, because we were waiting for russia. moves full of 1000 people. near enough foreclosure of the population, to stare re skits in stay include rock of a to being to greet russian troops. it is a stunning fig, a given the risks. yes. now, all of them have horror stories. they will describe the haze and the abuse suffered at the hands of ukrainian troops. is i do yes, it will do for you that they would come into apartments and execute people. they would throw grenades into our chimneys. you couldn't go outside,

they'd get you with drones. if you went outside to throw out trash, there would always be someone killed and injured. if you tried to get to the bodies, they'd shoot you right. there is a father and son were walking down our street and the father was killed. they then hit his body several more times. they wouldn't let anyone get close. they didn't care if it was an old woman, old man, a woman or someone disabled. they shot us off like hairs. goodness, didn't you really good sizes for what their store for? what? because we are traders because we were waiting for russia. they wouldn't even give us aid. some volunteers wanted to bring us food, but our mayor told them that we're traitors, that we shouldn't be fed, not system. they would not cease. they were obvious nazis. how could you tell one of its obvious, they'd be tattooed up the neck to this? they'd have the crosses and chevrons, they sold them openly at the market. aside from the swastikas, they also had eagles, but with the ukrainian trident in the middle of the source. was that normal?

how could it be normal? normal, how the told them openly at the market. they will be new mod, swastikas. nazi symbols sold in put aka its future has changed. and then the coming months, many more you crazy and towns and cities will be the knots of fide. and cleared of zelinski is troops a regime the tates soon, many of the 2 people would you hold the ford for a city of cut off from a fellow in barely a month. the city was completely unprepared for defense and the flight that you create and pulled up was nothing close to what we have put up before more i guess the of the from good rock of than the people's

republic. thank you for watching cross talk next and i'll see you again at the top the the welcome across the bull horns. were all things are considered on people about who would have thought greenwood would be close to the top of the drum foreign policy agenda? summer, calling it the new imperialism with a copy of. this includes rooting america's allies. also, what is behind the lawn? must war on europe to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess george, send me wiley in budapest, he's a pod cast or,

and the guy go which be found on youtube and locals and assemble. we have that experience, i'm not excusing. historian and political commentator by gentlemen cross that goes in effect, that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it. all right, let's kick this off with george george. i mean, considering all the things we've heard from the trunk, like incoming trump administration, particularly greenland, and that's kind of a rubric for a much more boisterous, a anomalous approach to foreign policy than we've seen. particularly since the new polar moment. i guess you could argue that there is no real difference as just the way it's being framed right now. but, you know, it does kind of harking back to great power politics which really makes of the bike in ministration to say, where's all the real is. we need more real is an american foreign policy. well, this is part of realism. it's not like it, but it is kind of a return to that george going. i agree entirely. and i think of the consequences will probably be um, noteworthy. i'm a trump has always had

a sudden hankering, full gray power politics. i think he's, he has looked for as a model. this was the 19th century imperialism, image great powers, acquire new territory, acquire new spheres of influence, so that they regard subordinate powers as are required to follow the lead of the great powers. and essentially, this means that it's the national interest prevail, well, the end they will throw that they have model and the, you know, it's been, it has been the dominant models since the world war 2. but particularly so since the end of the cold war, which is these, the system of global alliances with global alliance is driven by the logical dicks us so suddenly we have this a little bit late because we're coldwell and bottle was we're going to fight this

the spread of communism and everybody, all the countries of the world have to be screwed up. i shoved into this some alliance irrespective of what the interest because they need to be in wages more games, communism since the end of the call. well, it's been about the values, it's been about the democracies versus the old storage area and uh, regimes. and what that means is that the country's lives are only outside a permanent place. for instance. i mean it's, it's, it comes with it because this is the logical alliance, being led by the united states is a problem and then threats. and of course, it's a very real spread because it's in the name of this, these principles of freedom and democracy. united states laid alliance wages, sanctions wages, uh, when your actual actual was bombing color evolution's, terrorist actions, oh, in the name of the democracy,

subtract is suddenly not going back to an old uh model. hey, we are a great bout. we have a real interest. we're going to pursue our interest, but the corolla, re of that is that when we recognize all the great 1000 we recognize their interest . and we don't want to mess with that. but we that those, you know what, what matters do i would grade pals. that's what mattresses that me the little it doesn't affect us. so i think this it may be, it will end up in exactly the same part. but uh at the moment that it needs it very much. a different emphasis on the part of trump in the, the, in the, in the, in the, of the nitty gritty isn't the detail studied because it hits greenland, it's canada, it's the panama. and i mean these are not enemies of the united states. okay. there's no audiological spin, there obviously is. george's pointed out here. so, i mean, if, you know, you look at countries like russia, china, india because of their strength and relative strength of the world. so you can't, you can't lose the they're, they're kind of, you know,

you missed out on bad. okay. you didn't dismember russia for, for the uh, for looting. um, so if you can't loot of the other great powers and is george rightly points, that means that you recognize them is great powers that's cut best progress with progress in my book. ok. but if you're, if you're not a great power and you're in the spirit, the american spirit of influence, well, like i said in a program last week, if you're not sitting at the table, that means you're on the menu, the leak. i think you're right about that. i'd, i'd add one thing as board which is that the weird thing about the united states is that even when it pretends to follow an ideological russian, all right. it still also is doing deal politics all the time of available to kind, but i agree with george to some sort of difference as might be occurring, something important. like, you know, that you have last about what happens to the smaller power supply to important

peters, if i understand you correctly, of that, at least the, recognizing that more or less eclipse the library policy and that, and it says could have a stabilizing effect. right? sure, if, for instance, the united states had recognized russia as a full great power of its own national security interest in 2021. maybe they would not have seen the escalation of new cream. all right, that's a very concrete thing that i think this to, that would be a plus, but here is a problem i see, and i have would leave it at that for now, which is the, the issue with the united states for i think more than a 100 to us as being the way they define the sphere of influence. and that's a separate issue there. might that states as a state, and i think it's the only one on the planet. i'm sure it's the only one that defines the climate as it's fear of influence, right? so to get a system, the national break powers of national interest sort of respect each other, right?

you get a month to pull up balance. you would have the united states would have to learn to think of its feel of influence as not to drop. that is one thing, right? they would have to think, ok, china has some asians fields in phones. russia has been your pre income asians feel, for instance, somewhere. and we have, well, it would be once again, the monroe doctrine, right. they have lived in america. maybe they have going on to buy or not the don't think it's all business. what happens in australia, for example, right? and that would have to happen. so united states would have to turn itself into a regional hedge and on them, not that right now. the united states is trying to be a little bit of heads him on. and is it combines that with the new ult massage or even more router. so there's no national interest in for a bed, right? there's no way to edit. it's early days here. i mean, i mean this whole thing about greenland and in canada, in panama, me

a can also just be a bread and circus as a ploy for the, for the mag and base. okay. so you and i have talked to man and craig lengthening geo politics is in play when it comes to a manual extraction. that's very much part of has been today's world here. but, you know, in george, i mean, what we've been hearing about the rules base order and all those countries, particularly when we think about ukraine, all those countries that sent their military equipment to ukraine. okay. and now you've heard of united says, but i think we're good at you know, thank you very much where we're going to take greenland. i mean, all these countries they believed in the rules based order. and the american sphere of influence allowed this left to go there. american allies that are left to naked in defense. listen mean they, there's nothing they can do about it. and we'll talk about the fact was leadership of europe in the 2nd half of the program. but i mean, in the americans that are, oh, i said not disarmed themselves in front of brush or a china, but they've disarmed themselves in front of the united states. the less, right,

i mean, and what, what does happen here is that these allies have indeed abjectly follow this a, in the united states orders and hope a, see you this a, a wall that has nothing to do with their own national interest. and of course, they should always have known that at some point the united states is going to raise all kinds of issues about it and relating to their own national interest. and so what the, what the united states has done now is saying, well, you know, we have these global alliances. well, that's very nice. but what do we get out of these a global alliances? we are, you know, people are impoverished. we don't live as well as the europeans, and why do we live as well as the europeans? why? because we spend so much money on the system of alliances. and so we go say, well, you know, you're going to have to spend a lot more money on your own, this alliance and you're still actively,

you're going to have to stop doing all of these things that are harming our industry. is you know, we just to george, this is, this is not a request that says or if it's, it's not a request. so they don't, they, they are going to denmark and saying, well, you know, we'd, we'd like greenland and not them. i would say we have a, you know, basically you can have, it's an america sable we wanted. so we're going to have it because we, we run this alliance. and, you know, we think that this is vital to our national interest on the is vital to us security . and therefore, what's vital to our security is you of admitted yourselves is vital to your secure, just so we just got to take and, and let's not even know how much of an argument that they can put up against the authority does. this is the argument that we're all equals as democracy, but when it comes to geo political interest or our interest will always trump yours because we work you. okay. i mean, you use a thing you already mentioned, you know, you can have this a lot of your logical driven alliance,

and then you come to your politics. the united states will probably want both at the same time, which of course, the short changing your allies because, but i, but i thought we were all these goals that mr. lines. well, no, it's not true with never has been true take, you know, i mean one other way you could look at it is that what do you opinions have done, right? especially after the cold war ended off to the late 1980, something that's a long time. they've had a long time to think about this and it didn't the big mistake. one big miss. thank you. peanuts have made if they have disregarded the fundamental buffer, you list your politics, which is, don't think so much about other states intentions or what they say about the intentions. think about the capabilities. and if they have looked at the u. s. in terms of capabilities and at vasa in terms of capabilities, the motive understood immediately that the biggest threat is obviously the us and

cost them much more dependent on it in every way. and it has over 50, large and military. right. entity which leads to we just give a, an example of those capabilities, the destruction of the north stream pipeline. a brilliant stance, the capability of conducting all sorts of black ops is very much something that is move in the american optima. right? so if they had only extra to due diligence, right? instead of just listening to narratives, narratives, narratives, and talking the talk before the seems united states is been, haven't the, and extremely dangerous state is may now say over here on your side as long as you'll pay us into what we want. but what if that changes? it's one date and your politics view politics since the end of the cold war shows that they've never considered this problem and now they've caught out. but yeah, been, i mean, george with a country like denmark insights,

but we've done everything. you said, you know, we join the european union, we join nato, we sent a couple of you halls full of 19 forties at vintage weapons to ukraine. we had everything we could, but that's a good enough basic george. no, it's not good enough that precisely because the united states can then declare, well yeah, but, you know, we have really a vital national interest and of, you know, you already accepted that you are complete a subordinate to us and therefore you are, you're gonna have to do what we say on a note of subordination. i'm going to jump in here gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion about some real nice thing with our team, the

the welcome back to the cost of bull arms were all things are considered. i'm peter a little. alright. tell eclipse. switch gears you. you wrote in a remarkable and wallet article, but i don't always like long ones, but i liked this one because it was that it a kept harping a way what i believe and this is one of these by one time in the article as mosque is demolishing western new leads they, um, they brought it upon themselves. it's an excellent piece. i suggest all of our viewers take a look at it. it's of the r t website. i think what do they deserve it, and why is the learn must doing this? to let me start the 1st question vitals they deserve it because i don't know why exactly is doing it. i haven't guess. so why does it deserve it? i do know that been costs precisely what we've been talking about. the 1st half of the show, they have themselves immediate at themselves, didn't you, did it, themselves,

of power denuded themselves of leverage. and they have also be asked and nobody that has cost them or respect and fumbled reasons. if you look at the german case, we've talked about it before, but it is such a striking example. if somebody blows up your vital info, start to and you just smite, you are done. that's a hit to no respect left for you. you could look at britain and of course of what they call the special relationship, which is basically again, really limitless submission to what ever america wants from them. be it broadly prosecuting julia massage for years and making basic thing really to them the only the system in the public eye in the process or mess simply participating in the gaza genocide. so you have all of these powers in europe, then it has been begging for american attention, some port and a half accepted, all sorts of american. i'll return as a new mediation and now have

a big american ali guard the biggest and the would actually be also has not only the deal president trump was sort of the unofficial vice president and more right. and he is starting to let them feed it. so i don't agree with the type of thing, my fest not at all are right. fact to me, but the underline frank, but he's just illustrating to them, but they've done to themselves. that is just the reality right now. why is he doing a, i don't know, but at times i think i haven't given them enough credit as it were. for is own ideological drive, split. i'm coming to stand up must actually has a fairly consistent and fairly important ideology to what he does. right. and it's and that you want to do that. i don't see it at all, but i think he acts out of the number of convictions as it were

a right mistake. this guy that converts on spot, that is. yeah, well also, and there's always that element of self interest, which we always have to be very careful about. he didn't get rich, he didn't, he didn't have his past to his richard. richard have gone through state contracts in many cases. okay. i, you know, i think he's a genius, a great person of his time, but i have a lot of help to george and i think is absolutely right. if you have no read self respect, why should you expect people to anyone do respect? you know that that's right, but the, the attack on mosque has reached the levels of hysteria in your up and there you have to think that it is easy. ology, i mean, this is the 1st time in a long time in which a billionaire of the, you know, an influential now publisher doesn't subscribe to the kind of fashionable liberally just the global as the victim. you know, he's not a george soros,

he's not a bill gates, he's those guys to a very different um, a logical world view living. this is the, the trump in view of this is the or button view. and this goes absolutely outrage on, on the boss of the people who being run the u. s. o, this thinking the whole sorts of ways of we'd have to do something about him, you know, and so feed them whether it's of my crown or whether it shows or there's a who's off on the line or what she's sick now that you know, whoever is in charge of the european commission, we have to do something about him and then you only media, you know, right? the music long think pieces of us in the t poses to the freedom and democracy. but it was at 1st thing in the arguments against him was the oh my god, he is allowed, hate and hate speech and discrimination and anti semitism and racism to thrive on uh on twitter or x. even though they never really presented any evidence of

those, any, even rise in all of these things. now some of the arguments has changed. so he's, he's using a twitter, x and song very nefarious way, which we don't know. he's switched to change the algorithms even though they have no idea what algorithm is. this is switched it in order to promote his own brand. he's up to promote his own twigs. what a bully is done. he is allowed free speech. he is with them free speech this way. so that's what he, that he, you know, you said it was, i mean it's not the effect on these obviously there, there was some of the restrictions on speech this, but it's, it's a huge improvement on what all the time when twits a really was censoring, went to switch a really, it was just input removing, you know, content that they just didn't agree with. so it's entirely a positive. he's agree, advanced the cause of free speech is getting attacked for it. and frankly, serious is the hit, the reaction, the hypocrisy. i mean,

politicians are fair game for criticism. ok, i don't understand the, um, bridge that is coming out of europe being these are very beta type people here. but i mean, we have it, you know, the term isn't used very often, but we, we have forced resume, change going on and gaza using genocide of the west is behind the dissolution of the syrian state. um, um the, the, my dawn of february 2014 force museum changer. i'm telling you about meddling western meddling all around the world. but when he won musk right. say, oh he's, he's hurting my feelings. in an interview with a with a up is this is hardy, in germany, everyone thinks the sky is falling. i mean, again, why would you respect people that have such a spin skin? and the only thing they can cling to is an ideology explain their, their electrons are rejecting left, right and center at 8. 0, i think that's why the odds to hyper sensitive because their position in the on

societies has become so weak, right? the, the way in which mosque has supported the of the party in germany assessing extreme clarity of this phenomenon. yeah, i see is fairly strong, right? it has since 18 to 20 percent in the pods. and the whole strategy of the establishment party substance additional parties is to freeze it out. never the less frightened jeremy, usually you pick the car, listen, send this thing, never, never collision. if these guys and mosque is disturbing that strategy, and they're so afraid of him because he could perhaps push the off into a place where that doesn't work anymore. and why is that? so not item a good because of must. but because people, as you say, also incredibly dissatisfied with politics as usual. now personally, i would like to see bargain smashed to profit from that, not the day because i my old like the but that isn't the issue. he and that's the

things what you're saying and, and you know, a, your political opinions or your own and i respected, but given your position, we would have a little bit more competition. all right, good. that no, that's the whole lot of these people just because i don't want to have competition . as of course, i have consistently argued and several pieces of freedom that ideas to prohibit the if they are completely misguided, you know, because that's not f of the solution. definitely not. so i agree we just need much more competition and, but you see, and your business attempt at capitalization and to send it to, or you can call extremely centers and want versus the liberal essential as a really right. and they consider everything modeling that the steps that and everything that they themselves to some but as or even among themselves, to disturb, we like to and so disturb outcomes, political outcomes, that's not modeling, that's ok. see georgia, c, romania, or c,

g. every bird to force us basically said, you know what, we did it in romania if you have to redo it in germany too. right. so they have absolutely no respect for the noise themselves. they have no respect for the holes themselves, and then they have nothing to stand on fighting back against musk. so what if must because mad doing so are you and you are already corrupting the political system. they feel constant menu probations, so stuffed. well, i mean, george, you know, you, you had the, the labor party meddling in the american election. i mean, they, me, you know, that he, we went, we talked about that in great length there, but that's okay. right? i mean, again, you know, they're like, good terrorist and bad terraces, good meddling. there's bad meddling. this is like law say we're against trump. i don't understand what you're talking about. what do you mean a good terrorist or a bad terrorist? don't you have to visit?

they, i mean, it gets to the point where they just go into the realm of just the logic and they want to pay wise, any kind of conversation because we're more virtuous than you are. and that's why they have no case at all. after decades of a lead, a recruitment to really take over by the united states of europe. this is what you get the it is what you get. and of course this is what george sar austin, bill gays i've been doing for years. i mean, in terms of meddling, i mean, we know source engaged, they from newspapers, they found the own media outlets. they found things tags they found in g o's been probably to and must test twitter. ok exactly, and that's it. that goes over there for years. and years in this web of, uh, you know, these are, these are operations and they have been use precisely full on, you know, the color revolutions in this a to read, mentioned, you know,

romania and hungry everywhere else. well, and no one ever said anything about that mosque, right, and that's what we have. and most incidentally, is upfront about it. i mean, he has a, you know, he has his views, he's very outspoken. so he doesn't know actually act somewhere in the background, give a surreptitious is a no one really even knows. i mean, you always have to point out how pervasive george soros has influence. is you have the list all the different organizations that he has created and that he is bank roll them all the influence they have. and of course, the moment you do that outcomes to scream, you know, being on to submit a that's a conspiracy theory. but with mosque, at least you going to got conspiracy. there, there is, he just expresses these views and then he moves on to another topic. i mean, it's like, you know, one minute it was built in by the h one, b visas, getting very agitated. valdez, then he's moved on to the issue of the grooming games in the u. k. very i to about that. now he's moved onto the font, the l a. fires. if somebody was just, you know,

he has strong views, uses this back into an advocate which they really hate him for. i mean, there's a lot of policy differences. we don't now obviously don't have time for that. but to the penny, what they hate him for is that he's a free agent and neo liberalism, no individual has that except for he loves musk for some reason. in the he's such an anomaly and he came up through a system that suppressed opinions. wanted a unit, a uniform belief, and in this man just goes on his own platform and says, what he thinks is one of the very few. sorry, we run out of time we, i want to take my guess in budapest and assemble. and of course i want to thank of yours are watching us the larger you see you next time. remember across that both the

the, the must go with say that you printing and drones dry go. the energy infrastructure in southern russia has been for to i'm great, he's called it, i'm at sol, solved software intake of the compressor station in question supplies gas to europe for the church stream pipeline. also a head on the program, a cease fire and hostage release. speaking between our mazda and israel, is pulled very close, supporting to an ark new source in the middle east coast, a following. the recent thing dropped off po, box size is picked up. the street sold to the rest of the remaining is presidential election as a know the for a pro. and you tell me that last the vote with a snuff aleck.