security analyst gentlemen crossed off roads in effect, that means you can jump any time you want, then i would appreciate it probably start out with mark and you're in moscow. you know, mark, this program is about what kind of vision donald trump may or may not have a grand strategy for american foreign policy. as everyone is aware, there's a lot of things going on in the world and trump is even be before becoming president. and the last few weeks, i mean some interesting proclamations about what he will or will not do. but i'm going to be an orthodox here and started kind of in reverse. mark is widely said. then whoever the american people vote for and they get john mccain. we have john mccain coming in the office. i actually would say no, there may be an attend by the a neo con and when i say that i use it in the, the so we say the modern bi partisan sense of the word. it's no longer

a truly conservative, but those committed to us a gemini and primacy around the world. they may try to manipulate trump as they quite openly and clearly did so according to john bolton's memoirs manipulated him back into that position. but i don't think that he sees international relations in geo politics through that prism. in fact, i think he whatever we may think about his uh, conclusions and solutions, i think he's correctly identified. the problem is that the us is suffering from an enormous amount of we might have previously said imperial overreach. now we might say hedge a monic overreach. it can no longer afford to be the what it calls the police men of the world, or the military dictator. of the world and it needs to prioritize and come to

grips with the world of rising great powers. now trump's solutions to that is, is another question entirely, but i think he's, he's, i correctly identified the problem that the pursuit of a gemini and the benefits of it, the costs far outweigh the benefits to the united states today. so him and those around them have correctly identified the problem. the next question is, what is donald trump, the vision and solution? yeah, i mean, i think, and george mark really is centered on the most important point in gemini. and it's really basically how to maintain it. now we've, we've had, in the past, we've had this a liberal order that has been used as a ideological cover. and what we've seen over the last few weeks for the incoming president is, you know, refreshingly,

a little bit of realism. realism can be used towards maintaining hit germany as well. i mean, the, it's not the same thing. it's just address stuff in a different way, george. oh, i think so, and i think that's why it's so difficult really to get a handle on what's likely to come from the trump administration. that's a trump really sees his next 4 years as a kind of civilizational renew. well, i mean that he's going is going for broke, he was a really make by his mark on the world. and he wants america to get back to some vague idea of what it was. so he really, this is very important for him to think, but somehow amera they'll be able to kind of cultural renewal of america. and that's why it was significant. but he pointed these 3 of elderly hollywood stars as he's m. s or is through hollywood because i think he's going to see he sees that as part of his civilizational rejuvenation. and part of that, i think,

is his notion of going back to some idea of what america was before in him box on world war 2 with, even before the bar on this, all the cold war is global alliances. and so that's why i think he's looking where really at the, particularly the post cold war era of really you can is good. there's globalism entangling alliances. um, creating this, you know, in this a liberal world, all of the rooms based on the policing, the walls and essentially getting entangled with every single countries internal says so, so this is, you know, work and whatever happens any with is somehow a crisis with the united states he wants to get away from that, they just simply focus on what is important for the united states. the problem is, is that it's easier said than done and all the presidents. i've also thought about

that and you know, it's a, you know, because all the way back to richard nixon and, you know, those. yeah, well, we have to just focus on what's important for us. we can just simply, you know, dissipate our energy on pointless conflicts. so i think it's going to be a challenge and i think is mark points out there are those that he's ca surrounded himself with many of you know what the neo cons intervention is much mccaney acts what it's determined to continue as before. yeah, well i'm actually, the argument would be made and will be made against trump in a, in a matter of months, days maybe hours after he takes office is that, well, there's a certain way of doing business and presidents. well, they come and go, but we have an established approach to governing the world through hedge and money . we're seeing this movie before trump did try it and it made me pulling out of trips from syria. and the easiest example, or if i'm making a bold overturn in north korea,

we all know how these things ended. why is it going to be different this time? okay, so 1st of all let's, let's address a, a interesting point that the george brought up about trumps diplomatic, shall we say, sensibilities of sending mel gibson to be the diplomat. so the rest of hollywood that either indicates the drums, diplomatic sensibilities are very poor, or that he's throwing hollywood the collective big middle finger, which, which i think is probably closer he's, he's effectively trolling hollywood and letting them know who's in charge. i think that's more to the point. george also made a good point that the dovetails. and so what you asked is that previous presidents, although not quite in the same way, have also previously within living memory, committed to a kind of re prioritization of the united states. over its foreign

policy and taking george w bush from us the same thing. and then he immediate, his administration immediately said about trying to re make the middle east. bill clinton did the same thing and then ended up getting the car button up of serbia in, in the middle of europe as well as getting entangled by elsewhere around the world . so there is an orthodoxy of foreign policy, right? and this is, you know, clearly decided on, you know, ben roads called it the blob. you can call it the deep state, you can call it the permanent bureaucracy. but these are the real people that decide us for and in military policy. and they are not elected and they don't go away, certainly not very easily. victoria newland is no longer part of the administration, but she has almost certainly a key constituent part of the blog and her husband kagan just reminded us of that with an article,

the cry trumps position on ukraine going forward. so i think that actually this is probably going to consume a great deal of the trump presidency over the next few years as he tries to book that foreign policy orthodoxy. that deep states, they are going to resist. they are going to try to manipulate him, and if manipulation fails, it will become outright warfare. and we saw what happened to the last president who promised the scatter, the c i a to the wins. he's a, shall we say, quickly exited the presidential scene. so i is often described trump as a chaos bomb and it's all kind of like a bouncing betsy, one that goes in multiple different directions. and right now it looks like that chaos bomb is going off. and one on the transatlantic relationship with threats about annex in

a greenland in canada and re taking the panama canal. you know that that more an effect on south american relations, per se, but also inside the beltway. and i think that's where trump's real fight, where he's real conflict of his ministration, may end up as in dc as he attempts to take on the blog. and that is going to be a rough ride for well trump, everyone but outside powers may well decide to see that that is a point that they can take advantage of and exploit the situation. so george, what are you putting your money on the blog or trying to well, his history would suggest that the blah blah will prevail. i mean, you know, the trump, so far he got off to a reasonable stop. he weighed in on the middle east. he applied pressure

on the net in the o, and he demonstrated to everybody that the previous administration could have done far more than it actually did to restrain israel. and, and that is a hopeful sign because, you know, and if we could look back on history, actually, if republicans have been the only ones will actually ever apply to any pressure against israel and are going all the way back goes to eisenhower. and so, you know, blood shooting is relatively strong to sign. i, we know that reagan getting on the phone to him and not him begging or, you know, telling him to knock it off. even the hapless george w bush said at one point that enough is enough. and before his fame is a road map that eventually led to kind of a serious piece negotiation of the old met piece plan. so, you know, trump is actually to get them following, and the tradition of republicans will actually, you know, apply some pressure on israel. any trump demonstrated, well, he can do it. the question is, will he persist with this?

because he is going to come under a great deal of pressure. i mean, it's already being applied against them. you know, to knock it off. same thing. what will happen with the ukraine? he's currently outlining some kind of a vision or bringing this the thing to an end. now, it does offer a lot of um, the steps along the way and with the heat. they will definitely be an enormous effort, both in washington and brussels in london to slaughter any attempt on trump spot to uh, bring this uh a what blower and ukraine to an end. well, i want to talk about you claiming the 2nd half of the pro ran big marketing the net . it is possible that the piece failures a plan will be put out, but it's all a smoke screen because i know they can hand it in. they're going just to double down that somebody knows of human sites. you know, the last legs, it's almost over. you're all wrong. and my guess here are going to make that point

. when we come back from our break gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on problems for policy. stay with our to the same just don't have to shape out the application and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will support, we choose to look so common ground the the with the discovery of the new world. at the end of the 15 centers there appeared

atlantics, slave grey. the slave traders from european countries started building for its on the western coast of the african continent to transport the african inhabitants to america, to be forced into hard labor. until the middle of the 17th century. portugal had played the main role in this atrocious business. then great britain, france and the netherlands took the leadership for this fan of 400 years of legal and illegal slave trade. about 17000000 people were forcefully shipped across the atlantic. not including those who died on the way due to unbearable living conditions. modern historians estimate that for each slave ship to america, there were 5 who died while captured during transportation, and cruel obliteration of rebellion. this roof was the full tre practice by the

leading european countries. took away tens of millions of african lines. the organization of united nations class advised the trends atlantics, the laved raid, as one of the greatest human rights abuses in the history of humanity. this is the biggest act of deportation of people ever seen by mankind. the welcome magic cross on bullhorn time peter linelle here were discussing some illness. mark i at the very end of the 1st part of the program. i mentioned you crane. and obviously george has already pointed out down before he even becomes president. donald trump is made his will known. let's put it that way. in research when media reports tell us about what's going on in palestine, israel, so i'm still a skeptic about this. i think. where is the kind of thing?

it's not the end of anything. it may be me in the beginning, but this is a picture and this is a, a situation that is far more complex as easy as take away and i got to in, okay, that's if that's the, that's what public relations is all about. and we all know that trump is interested in only wins, however, that is defined, but i want to go to mark, i want to go back to ukraine. well, as seen from the benchmark, some moving out and uh from 24 hours is that will be take you all be taken care of and you bring the for the, you know, duration now it's a 100 days, it's 6 months. so kind of echoing what we said in the 1st part of the program. i'm sorry, i'm going to have to express by sky skepticism the foreign policy, bob, the, the state, whatever we want to call it, they're not going to give him a win here. mark. yeah, 1st of all, i was just going to ask, beg me for being a, you know, a permission to be a cynic and

a skeptic on trump suddenly bringing peace to the middle east. we though, of course, don't know what kind of leverage, what kind of carrots and sticks kind of if we draw close. oh, and yeah, we don't, we don't know what the story is, but if anyone thinks that netanyahu is, calvin is suddenly going to curl over and show his stomach to donald trump. i very much have doubts whether the ceasefire will last 24 hours or, or you know, at least a couple of days into trumps administration. and there's already signs of, you know, coming from the, the yahoo administration that, that you know, that i haven't seen that they have actually seized their strikes a guy. so let's, let's put it that way. but, you know, but it, at least he made an attempt and made as well known as, as you said, as to ukraine. yeah. there's so much input this behind this and there's no question that trump one doesn't like the coverage seems leadership. you know, either the previous one or,

or this one. he regards them as his domestic political enemies in the united states because of the way they quite stupidly and heavy handedly weighed in to us domestic politics on the issue. and the clumsy attempts to manipulate him afterwards or transparent, even i think through trump. and he's certainly thinks that so are you not in us is uh, is, you know, like, it was show we say red lines strategic interest. he thinks it's a waste of money. he also has nothing but contempt for the majority of western political leaders in europe, who are the biggest, you know, a crusaders in this particular measure and, and that, that brings up here all the obstacles to this. one of them has already been launched by one of trump's political enemies, the prime minister of the united kingdom care stormer, who evidently sent political operatives to the united states to campaign

effectively for joe biden. really don't move there, but he was just in care of and citing a largely rhetorical and substance list or in year commitment security guarantee. do you agree? and that really doesn't actually say much at all. he's attempting to one, continue the western process of uh, you know, lifting his leg and urinating on t as, as western geo political territory. but it's also a direct shot at the trump administration. you think you're going to pull out of this? i don't think so. um, so he's that this is definitely intended as an obstacle and what you know, of course, a signal to russia, but also a signal to the trump administration. and these western political leaders. they are committed to this conflict and they are very upset. they were upset during the 1st trump administration. they expressed joy at the return of the hedge

a month to form under joe biden, and they are furious at being put in the same position again. vain believing us lead western global to germany, more than the u. s. president does, and they're going to try to rope him back into the ukraine conflict. whatever he may think about it or not, you know, tell them a mark brings up such an excellent point when it comes to ukraine. the trump is going to be paddling america's alliance partners, and the beltway, and where the negotiations coming with the russians. that's way down there. i mean, it is actually a low priority because he has to get through the this entangling alliance system. that is, you know, and we've all talked about how that is so counterproductive to the national interest of all members of this alliance, not just the united states. and so i'm just going to have to battle a bi partisan commitment in congress and let alone the in transients that he's

going to have in the defense department, the state department, etc. may take this and these, this battle is far more complex than a mainstream left or right media is presenting at george. so i think it's going to be extremely difficult. and then if you have to then oswell, house law is trump or bad to confront the bureaucracy and to confront is laid. delilah is now you've got these. um, nato people. my crown and the rest of them were eager to send in european forces into ukraine. now this is all of goes nonsensical because a trump himself knows the one if you're going to send a new european forces. that's just the mechanism for drawing austin. because if you're gonna solve that, then you're going to come come begging to us as a all that help us out and help us out. and in any case,

even the whole idea of deploying european forces, the emperor requires american logistics in a, you know, the americans live that maybe they're not going to be able to do it themselves. so trump knows that this is, this is a here really of, you know, poison child has the europeans are offering, oh, you don't have to do it, you know, we'll do it. um, so what i think is likely to happen. i think trump and then you know, and my uncle rubio suggested some other stuff to get something he's going to offer some version of minutes. great. let's phrase the conflict. and um, you know, we'll put off the nato membership and talk when they to a membership and to mean definitely a future. and, uh, and then maybe we can talk about some kind of partial sanctions relieve him just to sweeten the pot a little bit. i don't think it's gonna work. i mean, i think this is the, i don't think there's anything here for the russians. i don't use anything,

even the ukraine doesn't seem to says in, in any way and beneficial europeans are going to resist. and then i think for a few months, i think of this list will drag on for a few months. i think trump will have to then decide what, what do i do now? and i think that's the moment that the pressure will arise as a, well, you need to escalate, you know, you need to, you really need to show bolton, who's the boss. you really need to show that somebody that because that's the only way you can get food into the shaking table, you're not going to get him there. but by offering him um, sanctions really the sweetening the fault. you're gonna really get tough with him. and i have to believe trump will go down that path. unfortunately, i have to go and mark, even with george, just said is which is absolutely spot on, in my opinion except the, the next few months is going to be a discussion on a dialogue, a monologue among the western stakeholders. and all of this we haven't even mentioned, we know what the russian position is. it's been a clear over and over and over again. i kinda, and that's

a point to the start negotiations, but we're not even there. we're not even there right now. it's going to be trumped against like the nato countries. um members of the leadership in europe and, and, and the people that are involved just toward him like they did in his 1st administration. i think george's right escalation is virtually inevitable. yeah, absolutely. i think that the georgia spot on that um, you know, the rush oh, you know, we'll probably, we'll have discussions with the trump administration certainly. and it's very likely that you know, from what we've heard, that the trump will actually want to meet with quote, and then they'll talk and they'll say, you know, hey, it's really nice that we can sit down and actually talk to a each other. again, there's a lot of things in the world we need to discuss and have dialogue on. but as for your proposals, you know, for you, okay. and when you're on the losing side of this conflict, we detect that we direct the terms not you right?

uh, and if you're not willing to agree to our terms, which we've made clear, you can continue to talk amongst yourselves all you want. but meanwhile, we're going to continue. uh, you know, creating facts on the, on the ground on the battlefield, which we're doing increasingly. and so that the cries will be in washington to escalate to de escalate to show strength. right? and that's how they will try to manipulate and rope for me into a both the european leaders and within his own the neo cons and his own administration of weight. so there is a plethora and the rest of the blob and the beltway. and that will be the crux moment how to, how does trucks respond? they'll be 2 of them. one when, when pointing says you, that's thanks, but no thanks. and the 2nd one will come further down the road. probably maybe considerably further down the road, but you know, in a year or 2, when russian troops are crossing the night per and moving on kit right at the bottom, it will be huge crux moment. so, and george has this monologue discussion,

debate, etc, etc. but will go on week after week, month after month, because they're putting the gold posts for the route. ukraine gets weaker and smaller. so i mean, when, when are they negotiating for that? well, that's the side. it's a, it's, it's a cynical policy that was, that's been initiated by the united states, which is, well, we're going to, uh, we can rush, are we going to after we're going to bleed ross? are we going to injure rush or we're going to empower? is russia, but by doing so, you're doing it at the expense of ukraine and the, you know, the american policy in a, to oppose it will. so what i mean, we, you know, the ukraine is expandable, the problem is, is escalate to de escalate wirelessly. is that it's a never ending mess, and once you go down the product, that means the war uh, goes on forever because of course, the moment. uh, usually it seems as if, hey, well, you know, the, maybe maybe we can now sit down and negotiate where and where in

a stronger position. so one, no, no, because then, you know, that's, that was because we got tough with russia. that's what i went to strong by means we need to escalate even more and then will getting be made even better position. so that's it. and that's it. that's the role for, you know, in less walks. and, and, and this is because this has been the positive by the ministration. and you have to believe that, you know, trump will continue with this being the kind of boldness of vision that you would need really to, to, to take this thing by the scruff of the neck and just bring it to an end. i don't see this in front, but just as the, there's nothing, nothing in the pos that would suggest that he would expand that kind of energy and to withstand the, the attacks that would come against them of inkling, reading, you know, impeachment possible, assassination, everything. i just don't see trump doing though, it will make the effort. but i just, i don't see that he will assist with this all more. so he said he has other things he wants to to exactly. exactly. give me the last minute. go ahead. yeah. so that

brings us what he wants to do, his grand strategy visit, and then it may actually not be much better for americans or the rest of the world than had gemini privacy taking a look at what he said about greenland in canada, in panama. what he's talking about is most likely it appears a school imperialism. right? you know, maybe with a realist element of great powers and spears of influence. but you know, he, what on call the monro doctor, we can call it the don wrote doctrine, right? i mean that's, that's the western hemisphere is mine. i may not care about anything else. there has been surprised really little objection from the new york times into the washington post into trump suggestion that the u. s. takes control of greenland, where it already has military bases by one way or another that's that's, that's pretty much mark. let me, let me ask you real quick because, um, um these are like, easy wins is it? is this part of the calculus movie?

and i think i got the panama, i got it. and what about the middle east? well, what about you? what about china? well, okay i, that's the way i kind of look at it or a gentleman, we'd probably run out of time. i want to take my guess in budapest, animals kind of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us the you're already seeing next time. remember, across the rules, the specifics, here's the thing is not a suspicious display as an extra really well. what is the vice of which of the junior couples and shows the more intense this to the machine you want to? well, can you pick what i chose? prestone could just tell him, but i'm going to the

office and it was me that it was set up for the to to come out. are still doing, spoke with the deal with just the dark system. so she'll probably, in, is going over with the, the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions fixtures designed to simplify. it will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few. fractured images presented is 1st. can you see through their illusion going underground? can the

free dinner is now already ex prisoners were wall top. so that really you can see behind the ronald, the bosses they weren't robbed and who are fine. can dogs off celebrating has 3 is very awesome games aren't staying for the 19th as the in detainees, people in the region, the hope to see supply will last. while some policies are now seeing the light of day one, the former detainees says entire time she was behind laws and as well. a parties never taught us to disappoint, comes to attempts to find out why she was tight, that they are renewable 6 months telling you that there's a stupid fight against you. we can not tell me what you did, but you're going to stay behind bars.