don't think on his background, the social background, the religious background, or the sick did in groups city. it would be for, or let's say don't be from the upside to say here is actually to ted because, you know, sitting across from a known terrorist saw tony that full lot of british prime minister. and of course, one of the key architect, sophia rock, cool. a rules that caused around healthy 1000000 civilian casualties. left to this day, 1000000 the rockies in town and the displaced another 3000000 in need of aid of pulls . it also wants us lots, coalition troops left in 20 and nothing. it really opened the door for isis militants. now to this day, all these years on iraq is a failed state that is totally plus like a c. so you have to get what we're seeing and double. so i think is the disconnect between the public components fissions, because hey, we have at that meeting, one of the prominent mazda minds of the death, the destruction, the tales that still rains over sways of the middle east,

say to it. and without any irony talking about stability in the region, i'm, if i were being on charge for, i would say that we're witnessing attempt to tap between weak criminals. you really couldn't make it all. and that is a rob. so you get in 35 for not the the i am theater to move the he, uh, the slider, uh, his jump on 7 see, and my truck was county and the republicans. and today we discussed the subject, which is as contentious as, as it is significant or the question of the war and so done on

the involvement of many external forces. those forces include the ukrainians, include the russians, some say, even van metre, i to use on the proxy. it forces under of cause the involvement of those countries not only in the done but in other parts of africa and is important to $1.00 serves the in times such as these on the month the, such as these, the accusations on the account uh acquisitions which must be under to didn't context and the context that i want to bring, particularly with regard to the war in so done, is that there is a history to it. when so done, regained independence on wednesday, the done was seen as a country. that was either a, it orientation with

a significant african population. so don was never these on those lines. the close districts in the south. i get dated for a long time, which culminated in the independence of south to done in the 2011. off the menu was the i knew i knew it was. and it is also important that after the south to don, regain the independent, there has been conflict in that part of the world in the nova mountains in the bloom niles and in the dive for agents. but the most recent of the conflicts and didn't did even before that during the doubtful wall, it was actually confirmed that the administration of a model but she was sponsoring ida groups known as the agenda we do. i talk to people in data for it is the john joe weeds that have know most into the artist

service, which has innovated the government of sudan, lead device, and put her on on him meth, team stuff. who was part of the sudanese army, but he's now seen as the leader of data sets on this is where the acquisitions are coming in. number one that they've been coming from ukraine and the only ukraine in other parts of this one was former soviet union. the even claims that they have been boots on the ground. and they have been claimed that there has been a recruitment of individuals from the outside, 80 and region. and when the conflict between russia and ukraine started, one of the things that came to the full was the one distinction between the russia on the west. in the 1909 does, the undertakings was given to the russians. the nato would not expand to the east,

and when is the nato countries not that ex, funding to dazed with the byron enticement of the key of government to join the repeating union event. the contest ations applied a totally different kind of that context is important for us to appreciate in order to understand what is now being caught up the rise of the involvement of ukraine on even russia in the african continents. the most important thing that's happened recently in print defend default is when the government of molly accused ukraine direct that there was supporting inside agencies in mali. and that they were being used to fight a proxy will in russia. and i remember the, the best set out of ukraine was actually summoned into bama cool by the administration of a to be great. and there was told that if you don't stop participating in the

insurgency in molly, then we are going to expand you and going to see but diplomatic ties. and they are quite a number of occasions in visiting god. and it must be understood once to gain in context, the russian involvement in many of these conflicts is seen to be a little different from the involvement of ukraine. seems to be different in visiting good. it is best government of this central african republic, for example, that to invite the group. because the y insurgency that was fun said by multiple parties including the french. it is also the case that in countries such as booking of fossil and if any of these at once, the americans had been expelled. it is these administration that invited the russian administration of the russian army to all 5 boats threatening and support.

so the presence of russia, as opposed to the presence of ukraine, is seen on explain differently, but as it is in a month, as of these, a nature, they don't, with the different arguments by both sides of the device that has foss, examine the presence of russia then we come to the presence of ukraine in the continent of africa, and particularly in the con, would new to conflict in so that a number of woods, as we have said on said time on the time of game russia been under the soviet union was not the typical quarter nicer and the reason passed after the collapse of the binding wall. there has been what is described as the russian soft file on visit. osh and soft file has been seen as the count, the weight to victory additional power of the western countries which retained

the military bases in the continent of africa. the french with the ministry basis in different parts of the quarter. and these, the americans of costs expressing the powers through different small, di national agencies. and russia was not in many of these cases. but discipline in the intimate way is that the western powers wolf and it is in this regard. therefore that when the regimes which gained power through what under the, my level of practically, is called unconstitutional changes of power, that they wind violating the russians to protect them. this invitation has been seen as i've already indicated in central african republic and bunkie. the bunky administration. you have seen this invitation in the government in nam may in egypt . and sometimes this happens, particularly in nam may when they see that you're in your minds on the

friends well or does out on west on fonts as well or does out the nea may administration images that we don't have the capacity. therefore, we are inviting a friendly power to train us on to off of the temporality protection as we protect online so that russian presence is seen in the good. of course, a little idea when uh, the webinar group, well operating as an independent entity. there was seen to be almost in the nature of much entries, but with the depth of their lead. and they rushed analyzation of their participation on the naming of the african quote. it is seen as the beach had for the russian administration to try and engage these particular countries. and it is not lost on me that the russian for administer levels has been in those countries quite a bit with a view to explaining and deepening that. the relationship,

conversely, ukraine is not up by law in the mind, not that russia ease and didn't did one kind of say that even during the soviet era, whenever one wanted to talk about the soviet union, the name for the soviet union was it last year. so in the minds of many people, whenever you talked about the soviet union, you could as well even say in rush and bill for us. yes, stock in people's mind in that to be good on when ukraine via full is involving itself in the affairs of any african country is seen as fighting a proxy war on behalf of the western world. and the reason is very simple. even in this war that is going on in the united, threatening, going on and the united states of america is involved. the wisdom countries are involved. it is seen that ukraine is actually a c, a for

a war that is being prosecuted by nato. against that, i should, that being the case, even if there is a width of the presence in any country in africa, it is frowned up on the scene as of the thing on the b, at the behest of the neil colonizers on the involvement is not welcome and that is the context in which we must understand this resentment we have seen in very is in fast, i think in the 2023, the president of russia, of that mid put then into thing quite a number of african leaders. and some of the institutions that came out of those meetings was that the many african countries do actually support russia in the as well. whether it is right or not is another debate. but russians are saying, what are the africans are saying? you have to do with us in times of difficulty. we know that the 5 to engage then is

not to you a fight. it is a fight that has been present cute the testing may do. and to control the while, we have the full costs, you owe a lot with you. that is the position. but let us come to sit on this done. conflict is, is a very confident due to the conflict, a concert in the sense that the southern stage in the life of a suit done during the administration of ahmad and by sheer there was what was called. they are by vision of islam. so that when you are talking about islam, it was not simply that you are a photo of their religion, but you also add up by the position of our i bit of the language and the why are you little like customize to drive the who uh, the intellectual weight on the think that's behind

a minor and but sheer on wednesday, john joe, we had met the was then seen it to be using the fi, up our, against the docs in the people in the food that gave the wall in so done are totally different caught it and the net effect therefore, is you have claims of libyans being in this space. you have claims of americans through sutton, supporting in this phase. you have claims of ukrainian being in this space. and we know that other stuff has been recruiting young people across this. i had a problem as far as judge for them as far as the needs that these um, must synergies who are prosecuting the war against the brand government? and that is why it has not been easy to resolve this conflicts. we know, for example, there was an attempt to buy, you got to resolve this particular concept. but the,

the brand government rejected the appointment of the canyon prison on the ground that he was. but the son and we also know that there has been an attempt at the resolution of this conference in gender, in saudi arabia with the so these on the americans playing the leading role that i shouldn't have been muted in this particular month old was solution. but the conflict is continuing the pace and only the last few days it was on time to involve uh, present, the sized fed walkie or very for yeah. on the understanding that he does have some kind of connection with both him it the and put on all these uh, happening at the time when that is great confusion. and of course the names of russia and the names of ukraine. we'd always be there because of the ukrainians, if they don't have boots on the ground. also seen as a conduit of, of weapons. but typically when you have the ex k for the 7 in the mix, we always look to that part of the supplies of their k 47. so the situation is an

interesting one that you have play as in the continent of africa. uppercase one. so gain a sort of concept, russia expressing ourselves through soft power in southern cases, even being allowed to establish military bases, in some cases, even being invited to take over the basis that i've been a bundled by the with, with that, that is a good or bad thing the judy is still out, but i hold the view that the relationship between the african countries on russia must be defined. it must be a relationship that is not one over dominance, but is one of collaboration and us concerns ukraine. i or the view that on till now, i have not seen evidence that they have been invited by in the african country to participate on.