hello and welcome to cross top bullhorn time peter labelle, fuels politicians communicate like donald trump. these words can be easily interpreted in a number of different ways. for example, take ukraine. does the president have a real peace plan? well, he defied washington's traditional conventional wisdom. also, how terrified should your a be of trump discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guess towards samuel in budapest. he's a broadcast or the guy go, which can be found on youtube and locals and assemble. we have take several non. he is a story and, and political commentator. all right, gentlemen, crossed out girls in effect and you can tell me any time you want and i always appreciate it. all right, let's start out with george in budapest, again, ukraine is forcibly meetings, but on the agenda, no surprise. you know, trump said he was going to end and then today, well, they didn't happen and it's not happening. i have to wait in mid to both of you and initially i was not be elated, but i was, you know, they may some kind of confidence that, you know,

tom says this war has to come to an end the, the blood shed over the last few days a his encounter with media, he got a lot and backs wrong. a lot of numbers wrong is kind of embarrassing. um, but you know, it's just not a trump um marker. rubio a little marco, he says this war must come to an end. that sound the good side of the ledger, george. but on the other side of the ledger, i'm actually more pessimistic than i was before. trump was inaugurated because they're talking at each other. the 2 sides are talking adage and they're, they're not communicating at all. there's really actually no progress as matter of fact, you can say that we're losing round george. yes. can i go very well? the true peter. um, it comp really is simpler is spent bowling. now he doesn't know what he's going to do. he's throwing things around. and hoping that somehow, you know,

something will state is clear that he wants this war to come to an end. he has no, no commitment at all. so there's more he has no, any logical facility towards russia. he is, has no particular of the feelings of benevolence. towards nato, he would like this to come to an end, but he doesn't really know how to do it. and so he's throwing things around, hoping that somehow this will get him to the final destination. so he started talking about meeting with parents. and so that's the, that's the arrange a meeting with functions but may or may not happen. and then um, in the past few days, he's been talking about sanctions imposed a sanctions on russia while that isn't going to work. and that's, that's, that's been trying to bind them. those ration nato had been doing this is a day in day out. why, what, how, how can that get him anywhere?

and the problem is that this, the spinal de la, whatever he has in mind is clearly unacceptable. to russia, and it's clear that that's what the women trump himself, what, what, what nato is of u. k. or everyone else has in mind is we'll have a breeza or policy spar in place. we'll have a breeze a and then we're going to use this a breathing space to stop pushing in nato forces. we call them european peacekeepers and we're going to continue. we will issue all sorts of guarantees the ukraine, meaning we're going to stop the whole thing up all over again in 5 years time. well that's, there's no way that's going to be acceptable to russia. and i'll tell tom's thoughts thinking in a different way. and then what, and then we're not going to get any work and then it will be a failed presidency because he's going to be, this is going to pre okey by him. um,

throughout his time in office. yeah, it says the speed manning is warned him that he can turn into his vietnam totally. but the problem is here, is that we have a group think phenomena again in all of a western foreign policy circles because all right, let's, let's take that face value and the term to and the conflict. but that's ending the conflict in bringing peace are 2 different things. and this is one of the problems that we're facing because piece would mean security guarantees for all of the ending. the conflict will that so the korean peninsula solution and a variant of that. but it doesn't prove preclude the, the possibility of a new complex is george as well as describes so well here. i mean, in, not only is it a discursive narrative issue, it's a conceptual one. i mean,

because at the end of the day, if you look carefully at what mark rubio, keith kelly, donald trump, and the rest of them, they're still looking for a to inflict a strategic of the time, russia, that means ending the war to them. that's the problem. headache as well. um i actually love talking to you and i'm sincere because you are the only 2 people make me to be the optimist compares. so look, am i going to turn into a breaking news episode? go ahead about but look, um i agree with almost everything. most of you have said concerning alpha about trump and his people are saying now is still about could possibly be acceptable to moscow. right. so i agree with you on the distance to, to be covered and how difficult that looks right. but i'm not ruling out the

possibility that the distance will be covered. maybe in a sudden shock, surprisingly, but i think it could actually happen. but i think the key factor here is very strong back to me, it was 14. and what would happen during the meeting, the that is very important. if there is no meeting between the tools as obvious or if it doesn't happen, or if it's endlessly delayed. but definitely won't be until the war. dave says, i'm beaten relatively quickly. i think there's a serious chance the trump is icon or plastic enough to ultimately break these things that you have rightly refer to that are in the way. now i also believe that he's still surrounded by the people who are obviously feeding them by data policy advice, including ridiculous data on, for example, home recross size, right, and this can mislead them. but they also know about him that he is perfectly capable of getting rid of paper if he is tired of the advice to give him. because he wants to do something that's right,

he has made up his mind. so i think this is the, in spite of all the noise is the am begging us noises. he has raised inmate at donahoe's in the infamous post a team to treat it out on his own network on his own platform. despite all of these weird noises, i think the possibility that comes to big day with our site is do they? yeah, actually now up in steve, you got a lot of interference from all the people who move on to hope that this won't happen, that they, they provide and that they can push them and exactly the opposite direction. right . he would think, oh, the biting people are just on tough enough and not going to show them more economic welfare more. i'm still everybody's different, even more profit systems. and then we're going to have been this. but you know more i, i, i really don't. trump is stupid enough to for, for this i think it's transferring me play and i don't think he wants that risk on his hand. and i think he sees the possibility of this dragging down his hold

presidency as very ria. and then there's one more thing that i wouldn't under estimate, which is i know some people don't take this serious, but i think that's a little bit of talk that may be about him. bunting. a 3rd term in spite of his age could be serious. and in spite of all the other constitutional obstacles to end of the trump is ceiling is due considering open, but he's keeping the option of getting to a search term. and then once again, invest settlement is a mistake here. that's simply not going to happen. i mean, it's all the, let's see, but the pen mechanics of it are almost in survival to peter peter the stuff that so many times about from that it's not going to happen because in con, my kid that happens, let me break it. trump is a lot of things, but he's not superman casually up to what's happening and to say, because in the end, the end of the techniques description,

he was kind of arguing. our point is that you could say, and that's why he and my input introduction. you can interpret his words in so many different ways. i made a deal, i made a gesture, you know, i reached out and he didn't, i received my handshake. i have no choice. that's what i worry about charge. don't worry about that too. because in his characterized ations, all of the world that's he is a presented since becoming president. and he seems to be blaming russia. now, you know, he doesn't take a more realistic view of the war in the way. you know, most of nato does, but he does seem to say, well, ukraine wants to deal zalinski wants to sit down and do, but he doesn't think the compton does. and he's talked about applying pressure against the russia. now, you, you know, you may change his view, but there's been nothing to suggest that he is ready to think outside the box this

thing imagined at the less to what could bring this um, what to and then freezing the comforting place and say, hey, that's a great deal, let's just, let's just bring this more to an end and let's talk about economics and the energy production and all of these, you know, building fantastic housing in, in moscow and whatever. that's not going to do the job. i mean, he is, it's clear that the russians want to talk about a serious reorganization of the security in europe. he hasn't talked about that. he hasn't in any way to express some understanding of, of the, of the cause of this war. you know, why this happened was the nato expansion, he hasn't told when, instead of saying, but right, you know, russia is not ready to deal, then he's going to stop applying pressure against the same, formulates as a fail formula, liked way started quite correct. i would say,

i know is i really feel that you're describing one side of his statements. that's what makes them so tricky. but last spring, on the other side, he has famously said that the landscape is no angel either. and he has actually said at some point that he understands the rest, some concern about natal expense. and i think that's, that's actually pointing to what some understanding of one of the key causes of the war. we've never seen the funds a by and administration. so the signals from him that he is ready to think as you say, outside the box, the problem is not that they haven't come out, they have come out, do we can really find them in the record. now, the problem is that they're mixed up with all these contradictory signals that seem to be the opposite. but let me add one thing about what everybody and i always refer them to and us by then to a right to do that. which is that he has said that ukraine or the lensky, i'm ready to be, and i was across. this is a pastor and poor team,

right. i think they have to be very careful about that statement. i know that the people who are on the board to continue read it as saying all of if you crying everything is fine. but you could also read this as saying, i don't know the drum simply assume ukrainians for now take that the, that's a very different reading, but that's also in the well, it doesn't necessarily mean the requirement is a fine. it means they will have to accept this. yeah, but one of the problems that i'm going before we end this part of the program is that i'm still convinced the conversations and intra group conversation in washington into foreign policy. ok. there's no reaching out to the most get try the best one that they all right. you hear me gotta hold that thought, gotta hold that time gentlemen. we're going to go to a hard break. and after that are great. we'll continue our discussion and we only stay with our to the

the after the nazis bower in italy, states foreign policy became extremely aggressive. benito mussolini needed glorious victories. he decided to achieve his ambitions in africa. despite the fact that formally libya had been coming to daily and colony back in 1912. the vast territories of this country were not actually controlled by rome. the nazis decided to put an end to this. but as soon as the religious order of the senate side stood in their way, the arabs did not want to submit to for an hour and put up stairs,

resistance, dividers against colonialism, were led by the sheets of the senate side order. omar l move star, who was nicknamed the lion of the desert for his incredible courage. despite the violent, bombardments and voice and gas usage, mass deportations, and the imprisonment of the local population in concentration camps, the invaders could not cope with the arrow patriots for a decade. in 1931, omar l move star was captured and sentenced a hanging at the trial, the hero of the libyan people behaved very bravely and rejected. pardon. pursuing a policy of genocide, italy was only able to temporarily suppress libya, 18th of the entire population. more than 100000 people fell victim to their. however, just a few years later, the entail you enroll, collapsed. in 1951, libya became one of the 1st countries in africa to gain independence.

the welcome back across the board and john peter, a little bell here we discussed we on this. and just before we went to the break, george was bursting with an idea. continue, george. this i was going to say is it? yes is, is the landscape will take in the deal because this is not a bad deal, falls and landscape. and you know, especially for easily and the conflict in place. ukraine is getting a pounding, so it makes sense to freeze the conflict in place. and in the meantime, he's already getting all this talk from may to end. well, issuing these guarantees all we're going to give you is and then we're going to give you a security, these bilateral security deals. you know, he's got these deals from storm a is getting from from, from ser and everything else. and those over talk, coming from the europeans in

a microphone in particular. ok, let's introduce european peacekeepers. so they all these stories that 5050800200000 piece capers sofa, valencia said okay, well i'll, i'll take that deal. and that's really the problem with the so when trump says, well i, you know, but what i'm hearing zalinski is ready to do a deal. yeah. go sitting, ready to do a deal because we know exactly what the nato always has in mind. this is going to be in the middle $63.00. we're going to start making preparations for restarting this whole thing in 5 years time. but russia knows this. that's why it makes absolutely no sense for russia to go down this path and then deal with math. and that's why it was a little disappointing for the trump to say. oh bolton, i, i don't, i don't think bush is ready to do a deal. know is not, i'm not ready to do a deal on pay stubs and, and we can hear, you know, when, when michael brought to at the well, the can on a forum and, you know,

he's speaking on behalf of nature. yeah. yeah. then we, we, we build a continue as before, keep pouring it along, weaponry into a ukraine and then hoping that things are going to change. and, you know, i, i don't, don't agree. what is this, are you going with? i think trump is going to get us tons know, i think the, you know, you, it will be done and then they'll be somebody else the and then every way. okay. and, and the patient that the little bit in somebody already reflected the gentleman, he's thinking about his legacy. tony george brought up the votes and we had mark realtors, they had of nato, and donald trump addressing them to very different quantities. there was very different agendas. i mean, again, trump ones do in the complex, both of you are right to point out what is ending. it really means that's not been answered here. this is a continuation of the blurring, this of the, or the lack of a or the intentional ambiguity of the bite in ministration. trump is getting caught

in that, you know, it's early days that to be fair, but keep getting caught in the door. okay. take disagrees with me, but, and you can disagree with me now that and comment about the differences between mark luther and donald trump and down those interesting venue for to meant to be a of but, you know, look, if you break it down, you know, take it away from the people from those specific people mock road to end. and donald trump will be seeing and georgia is right about this. is that on the european side? and my point is this vehicle that's known as, of course, between the pins and the last, right? even if he's origin from the netherlands, only repeat inside, they get to sort of come book you the shadow play right by the all pretending that they can go it alone. but if you is a really extra case that so from the more then very the europeans can take over on the on. that's what they're doing. now, that's a 100 the agreement with britain. that's what the story was. the defense minister

and the term used to push, and that's what, under the payable costume, that's all across doing obviously, right? you see this and you are, but the question is how serious they should be. take it over to the thousands. that's it. landscape management davosto, some ridiculous, even the financial times, the city. but you're saying this isn't negotiated in tactic. i don't know is this, but i think that is not something visual to assume is going to come true because it's extreme now to realize. and the people point to things like korea and k for they don't understand, the difference is the losses of k for about above $200.00. that is nothing and many of them and accidents, and mon against regular troops. so if you said 40060000, you know, being troops into your claim and they really and count as a russian army, people have losses and thousands against a regular army open. nuclear, i'm states completely and compared what i'm saying, that's the koreans thing korean things based on a mutual defense, pat,

going back to 1950 slate. now the trick about those american forces themselves greer as their classical trip. i. when you attack those or get those involved and you do have as a whole american military view, your parents really want to put a trip via into crime like that as a friend was the always that suicide. now that you p. and so it's been extremely a russian to about policy making research is that's why i'm comfortable and this thing out and kind of look at these people and say that's i'm saying. so live on to it is possible that the trip still try. but personally, i think it's a ploy it, it's aimed at united states because your parents are very afraid that they, that seem to be called out of any negotiations just like the ukrainians. and i think it's aimed at domestic ukraine and politics. and it has to do with seo craniums, other grand government, trying to mobilize is more people down to h 18th. i think that is all behind this whole if so the because they haven't, most of the time, this is all a day late in

a buck short and the way i look at it here. and george, i mean, the european has been according to tiny for some fascinating analysis, but may your opinions of based themselves in every single imaginal way m e diplomatically, they don't have any pull the economically, they're in decline or morally speaking, they're bankrupt. okay. i mean, try and trying to highball trump. i mean it's a fools error. okay, so that's exactly right. and that the triple i think is absolute right. then that's what this, this plan to bring in peacekeepers is about the vent on the key piece that to serve as a trip. why? in order to soak a much larger conflict, then they know perfectly well that there's no way that they did. the european peacekeepers can possibly do anything against russia, and the whole point of the trip part is to get the americans in. and actually, that's not something specific here. i mean,

you can always keep saying european or the as a nato peacekeeping force corps, these friends, a towel in german that they live in. the nato equation is very different, isn't it? well, it depends. i think it's a, if you are going to bring in french, german italians and the british, then it's like it is a nato far as i mean, he's not on the nato come on, but he's in effect, he's interested party is the representatives of nato countries. article by the bad ones as well. so that's exactly when they going to try and do so. i have to somehow that this of act as a triple our and it involves a brings in all of that goal 5. it doesn't disclose, but that's the plan behind it. and that's why i think zalinski is saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's, let's bring in the peacekeepers. that's. that's it. that's exactly what that's doing. so right kenneth, loving peaceful about this. not at all. not at all. and that's why they're also calling them of stabilization for somebody that trying to make this term, even peacekeepers. but, you know, here's the thing,

but be off the question. is this activating the optic of 5 in the future? right? but the real question behind this is, what would the russians and the americans think about that? that's the address from those to decide. so the 1st question is, if most go says these are, that's true french tubes to them, untruths, bridges, troops. and i see them as natal, that's the end of the question because that that means a decision must copy respond as if tomato. and it would probably do that. and if the americans, on the other hand on the trump say, you know what, they're supposed to be really nice to see you on your own, that will also be important. and that's why is this idea that they have a trip by it have, which they can bring in the americans do all of it, especially most of the americans won't come in trunk, leave some in the lurch. i mean there must be able to save us. so the whole trip by when would be just connecting back to the own u. p. and flimsy ost most of the armies. this advisors,

especially suicide. but that's, that's exactly the point. yes, there isn't. as a peacekeeping force. then the only way you can happen is if the americans are involved, there's no other way. then it really would be only the americans can provide the logistics in the engineering. currently, my father instructions signals and everything else. so that's what i like either if that happens, if it happens then um, uh, then it will be the americans involved. um, or some people will not safe place, but this all the talk, well, you know, from macro and, and kill style. i'm a and and, and oh is, and this was the landscape is like talking about you were being a peacekeepers but they know perfectly well then they going to bring up the americans invo. now it's a till i probably, it isn't going to happen. but that's, that's where the, you know, the moving now when they with in the little this talk about, well that's the goal shade something. well, yeah, yeah,

we'll both freeze the conflict in place. and then we're bringing this and the circle piece came is i, i don't, it's not a plan that can work. i mean, i really don't plan to get one, but that's, that's where i live in any way that to plan that can work because it's not keeping a piece that, you know, i mean, basically i don't think, you know, disagreeing really because we, we all agree that these kinds of having no korean scenario of freezing and plays in acceptable to russia. or i know this as well as you to and as long as the, except to go to russia, they won't happen that faith based on the solution. but where i start to disagree with the both of you is that it's, i think it's possible that i'm the trump, the trump administration, might actually cover the distance. and finally move to a position that marshall could actually agree with. right. i know it doesn't look like you right now, but i have to ask one question,

what will be expect at this point in time? would you really expect at this point in time importing and from haven't even met? but an organization is, i don't know, 10, that is a goal or something, right? the trump is out there and give you a muscle for a clear picture and saying, i'm totally okay miss, i'm keeping the terms tories they have. i'm also kind of comp, paper trinity no need to ever, and i'm going to really those the, the whole security architects of europe as the russians. that would bring an offer that the oceans will take. i said, right, yeah, but why is this service? no, no more than just george last about 40 seconds. what were nowhere near that? no. right yet? no, no, in the lab and. and that's really the problem. i mean, it's true what, what are you said that trump has spoken in the past about the russian, the security. but you know, you know, he throws things around out, but he hasn't spoken up in those terms in the for,

for quite some time though. i mean i, i think led to the question then is, if this doesn't take place, i think if, if there's a meeting between a boat and then from doesn't take place at any time in the near future. then i think that it's not a good sign. i mean, i think the way you do have to the, if there is a reading that takes place very soon, it's no sign doesn't mean that the, what was going to come to right. is it, those needs to be a good sign? well, i can think of the 3 of us can figure it out. i can figure out how marco groups going to figure it out. okay. alright gentlemen, that's all the time. we have one, a thing, my guess and assemble. and in budapest and of course, what i think would be worse for watching us here are to see next time. remember across the was the the they will just need to just include

the history of booking any components, just listening to the president, but at least a graduate seeking that most of us to call yourself with you. and 4 of you should see the doctor think, what's the rubbish to rubbish the . the skills are any, every day it was a you know, and it goes out on the stump please. i have taken poison brush nickel for support. your community here is to me on the double so we should that they will glad shoppers. do so. we should story share worse name is to do so let's go ahead and was put on this. so in the attempt of doing us that are we sort of been on the new much to sort of, you know, need to ask you sort of your internet service your through the

reason i was, was the last let me on to and um your previous needs the because the bills but so you all go with them right now if i have someone available at the finance, under this car, comfortable with a studio mostly from you know, from the dealership, national level for somebody. so see if, if i need to move these c a from us here in the plaza. yeah, the whole number is e. or for peter, for you to at least get that order. please? 9 inches. it's a 3rd cushion chef of it for you. my shit, the cost of some of the fuel issue and associated with this. so this, the specimen is for $57.00 for assuming they said it's a sun. they have cool. that suffices. i have a in the dress, it was for the show. and you should, you should, will be score the invalid,

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