x to sandwich in a call. it's a callous in between the estonian for a minister and the rwandan president. and now because he's father to even acknowledge her existence, after publicly obsessing over him for days like he was russian president vladimir putin, that basically means that the us and the you are totally dating now. a good call with us secretary of state rubio. we discussed global issues where the, you and us have the same interest, including russia's war and ukraine, iran malign influence and challenges posed by china. the, you and us are always stronger together looking forward to meeting you soon. wow. it sounds like she's already planning their wedding and they haven't even had our 1st date yet. no word of agreement though, a just quote global issues that the you and us have in common that apparently don't involve breeland's, which you think might be worth mentioning. you think the call made by something

like hey mark, uh, what's up with all this green light and stuff anyway? are we really going to more with you guys or is your boss just roofing just spitballing plans for europe and conquest. you think that greenland would have been maybe the only item on the agenda for that call at this point, but instead check out what rubio is. team said that he in callas did end up talking about secretary rubio underscore the need to strengthen transatlantic security code for europe to increase defense spending and highlighted the challenges posed by china. the secretary welcomed the extension of a u sanctions against russia for its war against ukraine. guy, a girl that's dude. sounds like he's making it all about him. sounds like rubio asked her to sing or stick it to fruit in song and she blushed and started on that for all about greenland. and then he was like, bothering her up with i really loved those use sanctions that you just renewed against russia keeps that up and she blushed. probably we're talking here about the

same sanctions. they're totally crippling the economy to the us is economic benefit and the use over dependence on washington. but apparently, the fact that the trump administration and marco rubio have even acknowledged calluses existence is considered a big way for the you these days. right, stay with our teaching off. no, for all the latest from around the world. i see you again at the top. i'll be asked by down the the

hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. i'm peter level. trump says he wants to end the conflict in ukraine. his rhetoric appears to demonstrate a negotiating strategy. but what does ending the conflict mean? victory for one side and defeat for the other. importantly, what does piece mean in this context? the crossing ukraine, i'm joined by my guess, mets nielsen in stockholm. he is a senior analyst and does it in club in athens, we have dmitri glass caught us. he is a lawyer and a freelance journalist and m r. say we cross through pretty pantano. he's an independent journalist and contributor at 21st century wire. right? tillman cross black roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate that. so let's go to you 1st and stop. com. um, you know, every few hours there is a new headline about a negotiating position. now the trump is thinking this, his advisors are thinking that even in ukraine they're saying this is what the

trunk team is thinking. um. it's all nice and fine. i'm glad they're thinking about it here, but there doesn't seem to be any coherence to any of it. if anything, it's there among their talking among themselves. negotiating with the other side meeting. russia isn't even in the cards. yeah. and your thoughts go ahead and i think especially europe is still stuck in an item this the position, the swedish afford and administer on monday of this week said that we, europeans have 3 core interests. and this was my re stand a guard to the swedish for the minister saying this. we have 3 core interests as your opinions, keeping ukraine strong, russia we and the u. s. in. now, i don't really know where to start to, well, well, map and match. so i, i, you know, i, i, i'm not really a well aware of the, the, the,

your foreign minister, but i mean, those are not the new ideas that is been, that was the mentor of the cold war. so, i'm not even imagine the imaginative thinking coming out of what you're repeating. capitals continue please. you know, it's, it's, they're, they're stuck the in the, in the world as they wanted to be. there is obviously no reality based discussion with india in union and trying to match trumps new rhetoric. even though denmark is being threatened to, the european leaders are still stuck in, in the i the list come and call us said, i think this past weekend said the date was in the interest all the europe, to, uh, uh, dismantled russia and break it off into smaller parts, i don't know where this came from, but it's this, this

a breeze and idea that's been been with the european union and especially with um, i would say england since the time of the great game. russia has always been seeing us as an adversary. now, at trump coming in and kind of at re lighting the fire of the or regional monroe doc treatment. meaning that trump is signaling that america is now going to focus on his part of the western hemisphere with panama threatening colombia going after canada, looking at greenland with which is geographically in the monroe doctrine hemisphere might mean that there is a situation where trump is doing what is best for america, and that is preparing america to be able to fend for itself when it comes to resources when it comes to production. and when it comes to negotiating from

a position of strength. and once america reaches this, perhaps we can have a new y'all's back home, friends. yeah. where this leaves europe, and i'll just my, my, for my, for the final say, this leads europe in a situation where europe is going to have to wake up and smell the coffee. but they will be doing it too late, too big, bad remain relevant at europe is making itself irrelevant as we speak. yeah, well, a dmitri no wonder trump doesn't take any of the europeans. seriously. there is no reason to, and that is not a, a, a, on my part, the greenwich drums foreign policy, but the europeans have made themselves physically relevant and to be treated. it's very interesting here. um, trump says he wants to end conflicts, but the problem with that thinking on for ending them too. but he doesn't

understand how to resolve them. and that is the problem with ukraine. he wants to end it, but he doesn't resolve it in the sense that the russians want it to be resolved in terms of their security interest. that part of the equation is not part of western thinking right now, dimitri, as well, let's 1st of all be honest and clear about trump special record. trump likes to boast about the fact that he didn't start any new wars. perhaps that's accurate, but he didn't maintain on just debacles. he continued to prosecute desk in war, although we talked about bringing it to an end under his administration, the 1st administration us occupied large swats of syria and c admitted they were there to take the oil. he continued to arm israel, which is in a perpetual state of war with its neighbors. so he actually doesn't have a record as a peacemaker. nonetheless, i do think, peter, that he does have a sincere desire to bring this to the end. a to the problem that trump confronts,

however, and is probably one to which he is completely in a custom in, in his career as a business person, is that he has 0 leverage because of the bi ministration managed to prolong this war just long enough to bring the disaster to the door step of the truck at the very moment when the ukraine army is on the verge of collapse and the sanctions have failed. uh, i think the coverage of air in the us military stocks are almost there. so what leverage the does he have, he has none and therefore he's kind of flailing around. he doesn't really know what to do. the sad truth for donald trump is he's there to sign the articles of confederation at this stage. and that's exactly what the circumstances present to him, and i don't know if he's mentally psychologically prepared for that said rule. well, exactly because freddy trump talks about consequences for, for russia, for putin. and he doesn't say exactly what he's going to do,

but there will be consequences again. and that's why we're doing this program. i'm trying to get my hands around. well, if you want to end this and you want to talk to the russians, why aren't you doing it? i mean, i mean person with both resolved that at 24 hours that and then we get to know it's going to be in the 1st 100 days. and then some magical thinking on may 9th of a victory day in a, in rush. so commemorating the defeat of the nazis. i mean, why would they signed an agreement on that day? i, nobody needs it. somebody needs to explain all this. to me. go ahead. freddy. well peter, we, we, we live here. you know, we're trying to make sense of what's coming out of this us and ministration sense. i think everybody recognizes drums kind of tendency for i to bali and misguided common. so it's nothing you hear we're trying to understand really is the mindset. i think it's very important to understand the mindset of the us and ministration, dest, you administrations, as a program, we know during the presidential election,

trump said that he wanted to move out to the troops, the us troops from around the world, and bring them back home trying to avoid conflicts around the welsh and bring peace did well. so again, pieces of mindset and what if i'm difficult to believe in anything that has been presented so far is the id that we can get to piece, which is a process which is the outcome, the product of negotiations related to the terms of surrender. and unless we can stop to hear about the acceptance that you've trained might have been defeated in this particular battle in this particular world that the nato us starting to recognize that this conflict is, has to come to an end because there is no positive outcome possible for you try and then at that time there is no point to entertain any discussions with about 2 piece 1st. you x except the fit and then you off the victors. yeah. but if i view the opportunity to go show distance. yeah. but for the year, you're being very,

very rational about this. i'm going to go to mats right now. but it would, freddy said, you know, be the talking about taking pictures. we have to use the word capitulation on this program, but not say that they're still the mindset in the west, the rush, it has to capitulate, we, we have made no progress because that's not going to happen. mats headed out, and that's the problem. and it's the question is how, how bloody of a nose that's the west need to receive before they realize that russia has a severe of influence that we need to allow russia to have. now what i'm thinking about trump going, all in or, or seeming to go on in with the old monroe doctrine, is the fact that we, perhaps your can be reminded all of the concept of acceptable superiors of influence. that was the all, no, i mean mexico, it's a solver a nation,

but should mexico invite chinese troops onto mexican soil? obviously, america is not going to accept that. and i think most countries in europe would say, it's okay for america to, to uh, at the chinese side, take the chinese away from mexico. and we need to remind europe about the fact that even during the cold war, you had buffer so that you didn't touch. so we need it's sad to say, but we need to go back to the cold warm mentality where we create borders and we create close. oh yeah, but no. okay, but i get where i get your drip to where you're going here to meet. we can, can we say, you know, is for years of security inside of, you know, because that's what it's all about. it's about security in the indivisibility of security. this is something the west and used to believe in, but doesn't believe anymore, because because it's russia 40 seconds before we go to the break, dimitri. yes,

but there's also a certain error of unreality to some of this conversation with all due respect to our conference in here. i don't think that your business is part of the equation here. the series of security are going to be turned in by the united states and the russian federation. and i don't think the european union at this stage is going to be a significant factor in that up. and i think the sooner that the europeans get the group on that reality, the, the, the, the better off it will be. yeah, exactly. we'll do it in a way, gentlemen, before we go to the break, we're at 1945 again because it's going to be 2 outside powers is going to decide the fate of europe, and that's europe's fault. in this case, gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here, we're gonna go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll keep are going to continue our discussion on ukraine state with our to the the,

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the, the welcome act across software. all things are considered on peter lavelle. just remind you were discussing ukraine, the okay, want to go back to dimitry. i want you to be able to finish your answer um, before we went to the break it before you do, though, it's already been mentioned on this program and it's, it's the alta 2 point. oh, now if you look at most histories of the cold war, this was a, impose peace on europe. but europe had destroyed itself and become irrelevant in international politics. but that's essentially what it's done again. and i would

prefer that they would be everyone would be a shareholder in their faith. but um, in the case we have now, we could have, we're approaching an escalation, possibly that would uh see us uh, confronting world war 3. so maybe we, but we do need a you all to hear because from the russians position, we have to solve all problems here. and not just who's going to rule in care of, for example, in the, in the americans just don't have the imagination to do that. right now, dmitri, i, unfortunately, there's even less, you know, prospect for effective negotiations with the european is going to negotiate on behalf of europeans personally, a personal level under land right now you guys are on the winning team. oh, okay. no, don't see us for democratic legitimacy. all that schultz is on his way out the door . i'm a crone who has a 21 percent approval rating. i mean, who is going to negotiate on behalf of the europeans? europeans made themselves earlier. relevant to my opinion,

the nail in the coffin of european real era, a relevancy was when the entire e. you buried the fact that the binding ministration blew up the north stream pipeline. yeah, i mean they, they did absolutely nothing to defend their interest. and now we have this ridiculous spectacle where trump is calling up to the danish prime minister and demanding that you hand over greenland. and europe is whether or not a serious the european reaction is extraordinarily towing. they're just sitting there, paralyzed like deer and the headlight. so although as to european because i am also european punch of the canadian, i am ashamed and deeply dr. distraught by the situation, the political realities here. these are the political realities. and so ultimately, this is going to be determined by 2 great powers and europe is going to be a bystander, even though europe's interest or more affected than those of anybody like this particular war. yeah, and, and probably how is all of this going to actually help ukraine?

i mean, the more the americans and the europeans quote unquote, help ukraine. the smaller ukraine gets its population get smaller, its prospects or dimmer. i mean, maybe ukraine has had enough help from the west. freddy, as well. the ukraine is pretty much left on that side with them. and you've got britain on one side in the united states. and as demetrius say, europe has become extremely irrelevant, has been, we put our eggs into the, into send baskets for, for decades, and let the united states run to show our policies and our security affairs. so we have no solutions to offer. and so we have a decline in popularity among so teenagers and competing economies in europe, namely germany and france as well. so options are pretty much locked and we can clearly see already under your pin commission standard of trying to draft plans and, and white papers on the how to, to revamp their security and defense policies. but it's what tech is, and it's not a mac route going around $200.00 various european states,

trying to us for more money, more contributions to us, to defiance and increasing the, you know, defense to expenditures, to full $5.00 to cents. it's ridiculous. this is just equal in what donald trump's wants and buddy, it's not representing and it's not providing ukraine with any solutions because they all know solutions. that is the bottom line. it is at the end of the day or, or what it was for the, for the wrong reasons. and 80 breached to, to death, could never lead to peace, you know, and then need to demonstrate agreements as well as the, the, the, the piece agreements. and if i seem to take it back to, to you could have provided at a very early stage is solutions. so the problem is when you let the country go on, and so you have a, an outgoing administration that is just keep on spending more money to avoid efforts. ukraine has both to lie kind. yeah. and they felt that they could secure a new membership, dis, wait sorted out. and i think you were coming to reality. kerry shows that this is

not going to happen. and unfortunately, the 2 major powers here, uh do united states and rush, i would have to come to some kind of agreement. and it's going to be extremely hard because we can clearly see the will folks inside the us administration, still promoting and trying to to, to bring more support to your crime when the president itself is trying to talk about peace. so these dichotomy is a, obviously a extremely worrying and concerning on the global stage. and we cannot make any sense out of it because we don't know what the, all the discussions behind the back doors between the crime and washington dc. well, so my friend already what i, i, i don't think there are really any discussions going on right now. okay. and we, i think we would have an indication of that, of what direction these things are going to go by the time we in this program. somebody else is going to come out with a new plan in washington that the residents haven't even heard about. this is where we are, you know, matt's one of the things that i found always very, very puzzling,

even way before the special military operation. i do program after program about european security, and i would always ask the question, if you're so afraid of russia and rushes so aggressive, why is it hard to get nato countries to pay for their defense? i mean, if it's an ex, essential threat, you'd think everyone say, you know, cut social programs, we have to defend ourselves. but nobody in europe is saying that there's people in brussels in, in london and in washington. okay. and the arms of producers go ahead match. it's very simple, it's because of the politicians and the military planners within the nature or within the european union. they know that russia is not an existential threat to them. it's a, it's us who say i, i could have respected the policies of the european union. if the european union have said, russia is a major threat to us,

we're going to take our young men and women from the european union, and we're going to send them to ukraine to the front lines. we're going to have them fight russia now, because russia is a threat to us. but that's obviously not the case. so what they're doing is they're keeping the conflict on a low burn. yeah, in order to one, facilitate the military industrial profits, which in turn, pays for the think tanks, which in turn pays for the politicians. secondly, the slow burn european union. there your opinion, it was hoping it would weaken russia. however, it touched has a strength of strength and russia, and now they are in full panic and they're trying to come up with these silly 200 year political the. so i just want to tell everybody the u. k. has a 100 year security agreement with you, correct. but we don't even know if your credit is going to make it to the end of

the year that this is an base our fantasy. go ahead with i. i remember reading in one of my books there at charles, the goal, one of the true statesmen of europe, a charles to go as an old friends, french pressure and said that treaties are like roses. they're beautiful until they are not. and this is the same with the truth is that the european union now are trying to make amends by signing here and there. but the european union, as they're irrelevant, they're proven themselves weak and they're proven themselves irrelevant. but by doing this off, i'm not sure. so it's, it's hopefully at the united states and russia can, and this, and europe and union best just sit down and be quiet in class. well, the grow now the mattress lately, but there's a problem there. there's a big problem there. to be 3 big problem. there's a big problem there,

dimitry because objectively speaking, looking at minutes, one minutes to assemble, watches the russians trust, the west we could go on the computer, we could the, the anti ballistic. and so 3 of the intermediate nuclear for us is trudy. the nuclear deal with iran that obama negotiated these people to treat treaties like toilet paper. i mean, it's not quite is uh, you know, a politic is the charles the government of for, but that is the reality. they have absolutely no regard for their own commitments. and the russians now understand that painfully well. and so any, i think resolution is going to have to provide to the russians, a level of security that goes well beyond a paper agreement. and really what it is that, what to give the russians the kind of security they require and reasonably desire without that goes beyond the treaty. well, that's the, the destruction of the ukrainian army. that's what it is. i don't think this is

going to stop until the ukranian army no longer has the ability to pose a threat to russia. i think the lensky will have to be gone. you'll have to be replaced by somebody who has a grip on reality. and only then will a deal get done. that's no matter what donald trump says, no matter what the european say, that's where we're at. at this particular stage, i, i believe in upfront a friday the one of the other issues here is that, you know, ukraine will continue fighting because it's a lead lensky and his cronies. they're making a lot of money off of this. i'm sure it's all been squirreled away here, but this will go on until the us and nato decided it is no longer worthwhile because the russians, they're winning. why should they stop winning a? freddy? exactly. so a matter of a perspective, i think from on the, on donald trump scans that, that looking at this potential negotiations from these on a conference, from what they know, what they can handled and the reality of the battlefield actually deep tight,

just kind of negotiations. and then on the other side, of course, the reality not did you do a politics, but the economy and the macro economies realities also kitchenaid and so you have it for europe that is completely united, create this flies entertaining. the reality of a multi point of welds and so we drawn an independent nations, a powerful nation are, you will, you aspire to be a number of, apart from nation. you need to have this in stream and you need to revenge audio systems, you know, from, you know, as i said, transportations the way you bank the way your, your transfer your money. everything needs to be read that due to the internet, independence fashion to address the multiple well something that we have not done, something that the rush has been able to do during the conflict. since i just sent time to have the country a battle to fight and on the other side, they are addressing this important tools and instruments that are required for this country. that is going to survive the shift within the macro economic. so we've

been that down and ukraine will also be let down. that is the reality. the bridge we're trying to, the likely i believe and always predicted that there will be a replacement. so obviously landscape should come 1st before the negotiations on to time. we'll see probably lose need or perhaps a return up soon is needing your client or for the american liskey are still beach and i so it, it really depends on that. yeah. yeah. but then because i went to see you then. yeah, but that, that will not have any impact on russian security interest whatsoever. this is a west side or some of the roads a, it's a native problem. this has always been a native problem. gentleman, that's all the time we have a want to think, my guess, and mark say athens and in stockholm. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, cross circles, the of the,

the, the russian states never as one of the most sense community best. most all sense of the, in the 65 to 5 must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on the russia to day and split the r t spoke next. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services for what question did you say a request,

which is the lease of the facilities that medical facilities and also medical appointment drapes, they affected by the fighting. he goes to the pension, there is high risk associated with that. the red cross sounds the alarm about the dangers best civilians face at the complex frequent d. r. c. at kindergarten, funded by a lot of which contains the boulevards, is that particular race cabinet development approach, we will take it as a declaration of war. that's the message from south africa as a warranty. on the one day against attacking any of its peacekeeping forces. and that the, our feet for africa says 13 of its troops with killed and recently i've met the