and people that was our greatest support under a new right hawk through the company's way. you can get for the details of all the stories we're following. now thanks for watching by now the the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. trump says he wants to end the conflict in ukraine. his rhetoric appears to demonstrate a negotiating strategy. but what does ending the conflict mean?

victory for one side and defeat for the other. importantly, what does piece mean in this context? the crossing ukraine? i'm joined by my guess, mets nielsen in stockholm. he is a senior analyst at visit and club in athens. we have dmitri plus caught us. he is a lawyer and a freelance journalist and him are say we cross to pretty pantano. he's an independent journalist and contributor at 21st century wire or at tillman cross black roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate that. so let's go to you 1st and stop. com. you know, every few hours there's a new headline about a negotiating position. now the trump is thinking, this is advisors are thinking that even in ukraine, they're saying this is what the trunk team is thinking. um. it's all nice and fine . i'm glad they're thinking about it here,

but there doesn't seem to be any coherence to any of it. if anything, it's there among their talking among themselves. negotiating with the other side meeting. russia isn't even in the cards. yeah. and your thoughts go ahead. i think especially europe is still stuck in an item this the position, the swedish afford and administer on monday of this week said that to we, europeans have 3 core interests. and this was my re stand a guard to the swedish for the minister saying this. we have 3 core interests as your opinions, keeping ukraine strong rough show we and the u. s. in. now, i don't really know where to start to, well, well, map and match. so i, i, you know, i, i, i'm not really a well aware of the, the, the, your foreign minister, but i mean, those are not the new ideas that is been, that was the mentor of the cold war. so,

i'm not even imagine the imaginative thinking coming out of what you're repeating. capitals continue please. you know, it's, it's, they're, they're stuck in, in the, in the world as they wanted to be. there is obviously no reality based discussion with india in union and trying to match trump's new rhetoric even though denmark is being threatened, the, the european leaders are still stuck in, in the i the list come and call us said, i think this past weekend said the date was in the interest all the europe to dismantled russia and break it off into smaller parts. i don't know where this came from, but it's this, this, it breeds and idea that's been been with the european union and

especially with um, i would say england since the time of the great game, russia has always been seeing us as an adversary. now, at trump coming in and kind of at re lighting the fire of the or regional monroe, dr. treatment, meaning that trump is signaling that america is now going to focus on his part of the western hemisphere with panama threatening columbia. going after canada, looking at greenland with which is geographically in the monroe doctrine hemisphere might mean that there is a situation where trump is doing what is best for america. and that is preparing america to be able to fend for itself when it comes to resources. when it comes to production and when it comes to negotiating from a position of strength. and once america reaches this, perhaps we can have

a new y'all's back conference. yeah. where this leaves europe, and i'll just my, my, for my, for the final say, this leads europe in a situation where europe is going to have to wake up and smell the coffee. but they will be doing it too late, too big, bad remain relevant at europe is making itself irrelevant as we speak. yeah, well, a dmitri no wonder trump doesn't take any of the europeans. seriously. there is no reason to and that is not a, a, a, on my part of the greenwood transform policy, but the europeans have made themselves just the relevant to be treated. it's very interesting here. trump says he wants to end conflicts. but the problem with that thinking on for ending them too, but he doesn't understand how to resolve them. and that is the problem with ukraine . he wants to end it, but he doesn't resolve it in the sense that the russians want it to be resolved. in terms of their security interest,

that part of the equation is not part of western thinking right now, dimitri, as well as let's 1st of all be honest and clear about trump special record. trump likes to boast about the fact that he didn't start any new wars. perhaps that's accurate, but he didn't maintain on just debacles. he continued to prosecute desk in war. although we talked about bringing it to an end. under his administration, the 1st administration us occupied large slots of syria and c admitted they were there to take the oil. he continued to arm israel, which is in a perpetual state of war with its neighbors. so he actually doesn't have a record as a peacemaker. nonetheless, i do think, peter, that he does have a sincere desire to bring us to the end a to the problem that trump confronts, however, and is probably one to which he is completely in a custom in, in his career as a business person, is that he has 0 leverage because of the by ministration managed to prolong this

war just long enough to bring the disaster to the door step of the truck at the very moment when the ukraine army is on the verge of collapse and the sentients have failed. i think the coverage of air in the us military stocks are almost there . so what leverage the does he have? he has none. and therefore he's kind of flailing around. he doesn't really know what to do. the sad truth for donald trump is he's there to sign the articles of confederation at this stage, and that's exactly what the circumstances present to him. and i don't know if he's mentally psychologically prepared for that. said roll quote, exactly because freddy trump talks about consequences for, for russia, for putin. and he doesn't say exactly what he's going to do, but there will be consequences again. and that's why we're doing this program. i'm trying to get my hands around. well, if you want to end this and you want to talk to the russians,

why aren't you doing it? i mean, i mean 1st and we've talked to resolve that in 24 hours, and then we get to know it's going to be in the 1st 100 days. and then some magical thinking on may 9th of a victory day, in a, in russell, commemorating the defeat of the nazis. i mean, why would they signed an agreement on that day? i, nobody needs it. somebody needs to explain all this. to me, go ahead. freddy. well peter, we, we, we live here, you know, we're trying to make sense of what's coming out of this us and ministration sense. i think everybody recognizes drums kind of tendency for i to bali ends, a misguided common. so it is nothing you here. what we're trying to understand really is the mindset. i think it's very important to understand the mindset of the us administration, dest, you administrations as a program. we know during the presidential election, trump said that he wanted to move out to the troops, the us troops from around the world and bring them back home,

trying to avoid conflicts around the wells and bring peace did well. so again, pieces of mindset and what if i'm difficult to believe in anything that has been presented so far is the id that we can get to piece, which is a process which is the outcome, the product of negotiations related to the terms of surrender. and unless we can stop to hear about the acceptance that you've trained might have been defeated in this particular battle in this particular world that you need to us starting to recognize that this conflict is, has to come to an end because there is no positive outcome possible for you try and then at that time there is no point to entertain any discussions with about 2 piece 1st. you x step to the fit and then you ask the victor see me up. but if i give you the opportunity to go show distance. yeah, but for the year you're being very, very rational about this. i'm going to go to match right now. but it would, freddy said, you know, be the talking about taking pictures. we have to use the word capitulation on this

program, but not say that there's still the mindset in the west, but russia has to capitulate we, we have made no progress because that's not going to happen. mats are headed out and that's the problem. and it's uh, the question is, how, how bloody of a nose does the west need to receive before they realize that russia has a severe of influence that we need to allow russia to have. now what i'm thinking about trump going all in what we're seeming to go all in with the old monroe doctrine is the fact that we, perhaps your can be reminded of the concept of acceptable swears of influence. that was the old. no, i mean mexico. it's a silver nation, but sure to mexico didn't invite chinese troops onto mexican soil. obviously,

america is not going to accept that. and i think most countries in europe would say, it's okay for america to, to, uh, and the chinese take the chinese away from mexico. and we need to remind europe about the fact that even during the cold war, you had buffer systems that you didn't touch. so we need, it's sad to say, but we need to go back to the cold warm mentality where we create borders and we create a fight. so, so yeah, but no. okay, but i, i get where i get your drift where you're going here to meet. we can, can we say, you know, is for years of security inside of, you know, because that's what it's all about. it's about security and the indivisibility of security. this is something the west used to believe in, but doesn't believe anymore, because because it's russia 40 seconds before we go to the break, dimitri. yes, but there's also a certain error of unreality to some of this conversation with all due respect to our conference in here. i don't think that your business is part of the equation

here. the spheres of security are going to be turned in by the united states and the russian federation. and i don't think the european union at this stage is going to be a significant factor in that up. and i think the sooner that the europeans get the group on that reality the, the, the, the better off it will be. yeah, exactly. we do in a way, gentlemen, before we go to the break, we're at 1945 again because it's going to be 2 outside powers is going to decide the fate of europe, and that's europe's fault. in this case, gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're gonna go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll keep are going to continue our discussion on ukraine state with our to the cause, which is pretty nice to someone that just didn't want to say i'm on this for the best interest you. i you see for the se under the guise of evacuation about 50000 people were transported. the,

the main purpose of this concentration camp in bella rose was doing think prisoners was time for us and use them as a human shield against the advancing soviet on me. giving my own but feelings and slipped into phone. you put them in. there was one of us please give me the plugin for the ship that you're shipping and stuff like that. but don't want to bring your name. you know, i'm so sorry i missed because on your certificate 6 to put your side and that is a c c, 's use people, his biological weapons leading them to perish without food, water or shelter, feed off some other for me if i did think so, could i think it was, i knew you should be smart, the can you put the infinity nation weight in there? so at this point is usually a ship for them to move the cam gloucester 10 days or what else made it drastically defense from other camps of that the rice watch on

t the the had a pretty well. we'll just need to just include up the 1st one was bugging any components here. so something that it doesn't put all the state gradually taking the most us to call yourself with you in the form you should see it. okay. what's the rubbish to rubbish cubes that are and you know, particularly it was a, you know, and it goes out any of the stuff, please have taken poison question. your call for support. your community is to

me and that that will. so we should that they will glad shoppers to switch to share a voice name. you're still doing an order with them. so let's go ahead and we'll put on this way. and that if they're doing this, that are we sort of going on here. and there must be sort of, you know, near to ask you sort of internet service. you're through the welcome act across, ok, we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to mind you were discussing ukraine, the okay, one to go back to dimitry. i want you to be able to finish your answer um, before we went to the break it before you do, though, it's already been mentioned on this program and it's the, it's the alta 2 point. oh, now if you look at most histories of the cold war, this was a,

impose peace on europe. but europe had destroyed itself and become irrelevant in international politics. but that's essentially what it's done again. and i would prefer that they would be everyone would be a shareholder in their faith. but um, in the case we have now, we could have, we're approaching an escalation, possibly that would uh see us confronting world war 3. so maybe, but we do need a you all to hear because from the russians position, we have to solve all problems here. and not just who's going to rule in care of, for example, in the, in the americans just don't have the imagination to do that. right. now, dmitri, fortunately, there's even less, you know, prospect for effective negotiations with the european is going to negotiate on behalf of europeans personally, a personal level under land right now you guys are on the winning team.

oh, okay. no. do you have to put democratic legitimacy on that? sure. what's his, on his way out the door? i'm a crone who has a 21 percent approval rating. i mean, who is going to negotiate on behalf of the europeans? europeans made themselves earlier. relevant to my opinion, the nail in the coffin of european relatives a relevancy was when the entire e. you buried the fact that the binding ministration blew up the north stream pipeline. yeah, i mean they, they did absolutely nothing to defend their interest. and now we have this ridiculous spectacle where trump is calling of the danish prime minister and demanding that you hand over greenland. and europe is whether or not a serious the european reaction is extraordinarily towing there just sitting there, paralyzed like deer and the headlight. so although as to european because i am also european punch of the canadian, i am ashamed and deeply dr. distraught by the situation, the political realities here. these are the political realities. and so ultimately, this is going to be determined by 2 great powers and europe is going to be

a bystander, even though europe's interest or more affected than those of anybody by this particular war. yeah. and, and for the, how is all of this going to actually help ukraine? i mean, the more the americans in the europeans quote unquote, help ukraine. the smaller ukraine gets its population get smaller, its prospects are dimmer. i mean, maybe ukraine has had enough help from the west ready as well. the ukraine is pretty much left on that side. and i mean, you've got britain on one side in the united states. and as demetrius say, europe has become extremely irrelevant, has been, we put all eggs into the, into sand baskets for, for decades. and let the united states run to show our policies and our security affairs. so we have no solutions to offer. and so we have a decline in popularity among so teenagers and key leading economies in europe, namely germany and france as well as the site options are pretty much blocked. and we can clearly see already under your inclination standard of trying to draft plans

and, and white papers on the how to, to read find their security and defense policies. but it's what's i q's and it's not a mac route going around $200.00 various european states, trying to allow us for no money more contributions to us, the defiance and increasing the, you know, defense to expenditures, to 4 or $5.00 to cents. it's ridiculous. this is just equal in what donald trump wants, and buddy, it's not representing, and it's not providing ukraine with any solutions because they're all new solutions . that is the bottom line. it is at the end of the day or, or what it was for the, for the wrong reasons. and 80 breached to do that, could have led to peace, you know, and then lead or diminished agreements as well as the, the, the, the piece agreements. and if i seem to take it back to, to you could have provided at a very early stage is solutions. so the problem is when you let the country go on, and so you have a,

an outgoing administration that is just keep on spending more money to avoid efforts. ukraine has both to lie on the and the default that the could secure a new membership, dis, wait sorted out. and i think you were coming to reality that kerry shows that this is not going to happen. and unfortunately, the 2 major powers you, uh, do united states and brush i would have to come to some kind of agreement. and it's going to be extremely hot because we can clearly see the results inside the us administration. still promoting and trying to to, to bring more support to your crime when the president itself is trying to talk about peace. so these dichotomy is a, obviously a extremely worrying and concerning on the global stage. and we cannot make any sense out of it because we don't know what the all the discussions behind the back doors between the kremlin and washington dc. well, so my friend already, what time i, i don't think there are really any discussions going on right now. okay. and we, i think we would have an indication of that,

of what direction these things are going to go by the time we in this program. somebody else is going to come out with a new plan in washington that the russians haven't even heard about. this is where we are, you know, matt's one of the things that i found always very, very puzzling, even way before the special military operation. i do program after program about european security, and i would always ask the question, if you're so afraid of russia and rushes so aggressive, why is it hard to get nato countries to pay for their defense? i mean, if it's an ex, essential threat, you'd think everyone say, you know, cut social programs, we have to defend ourselves. but nobody in europe is saying that there's people in brussels in, in london and in washington. okay. and the arms of producers go ahead match. it's very simple, it's because of the politicians and the military planners within the nature or within the european union. they know that russia is not an existential threat to them. it's a, it's as to say i,

i could have respected the policies of the european union. if the european union had said, russia is a major threat to us, we're going to take our young men and women from the european union, and we're going to send them to ukraine to the front lines. we're going to have them fight russia now because of russia is a threat to us. but that's obviously not the case. so what they're doing is they're keeping the conflict on a low burn. now, in order to one, facilitate the military industrial profits, which in turn, pays for the think tanks, which in turn pays for the politicians. secondly, the slow burn european union there your opinion, it was hoping it would weaken russia. however, it touched as a strength of strength and russia, and now they are in full panic and they're trying to come up with these silly 200

year political the. so i just want to tell everybody the u. k. has a 100 year security agreement with you, correct. but we don't even know if your credit is going to make it to the end of the year that this is an base our fantasy. go ahead, man. i, i remember reading in one of my books, the charles, the goal, one of the true statesmen of europe, a charles, the goal of the old friends, french pressure and said that treaties are like roses, they're beautiful until they are not. and the, this is the same with the truth is that the european union now are trying to make amends by signing here and there. but the european union, as they're irrelevant, they're proven themselves weak and they're proven themselves irrelevant. but by doing this off, i'm not sure. so it's, it's hopefully at the united states and russia can and this,

and europe, and you'd in the best just sit down and be quiet in class. well, the grow, know nothing to mask literally, but there's a problem there, there's a big problem. there can be 3 big problem. there's a big problem there, dimitri, because objectively speaking, looking at minutes, one minutes to assemble. once the russians trust the west, we could go on the computer, we could the, the anti ballistic missile treaty, the intermediate nuclear forces treaty, the nuclear deal with iran, that obama negotiated these people to treat treaties like toilet paper. i mean, it's not quite is, you know, a politic is the charles the goldsmith of 4. but that is the reality. they have absolutely no regard for their own commitments and the russians now understand that painfully well. and so any, i think resolution is going to have to provide to the russians, a level of security that goes well beyond a paper agreement. and really what it is that,

what to give the russians the kind of security they require and reasonably desire without that goes beyond the treaty. well, that's the, the destruction of the ukrainian or me. that's what it is. i don't think this is going to stop until the ukranian army no longer has the ability to pose a threat to russia. i think the lensky will have to be gone. you'll have to be replaced by somebody who has a grip on reality. and only then will a deal get done. that's no matter what donald trump says, no matter what the european say, that's where we're at. at this particular stage, i, i believe in upfront a friday the one of the other issues here is that, you know, ukraine will continue fighting because it's a lead lensky and his cronies. they're making a lot of money off of this. i'm sure it's all been squirreled away here, but this will go on until the us and nato decided it is no longer worthwhile because the russians, they're winning. why should they stop winning?

is freddy is exactly. so a matter of perspective, i think from on the, on donald trump scans that they're looking at this potential negotiations from these on a conference from what they know, what they can handled. and the reality of the battle field actually dictate this kind of negotiations. and then on the other side, of course, the reality not, did you do your politics, but the economy and the macro or economy side reality is also kitchenaid and say you have it for europe that is completely united. create as far as on to training the reality of a multi point of welds. and so we drawn an independent nations, a powerful nation are, you will, you aspire to be on the confirmation. you need to have this in screen and you need to revise the audio systems you know, from, you know, as i say, of transportations, the way you bank, the way your, your transfer your money. everything needs to be read that to, to the internet independent fashion, to address the multiple. well, something that we have not done, something that the rush has been able to do during the conflicts. so i just sent him to have a country, a battle to fight, and on the other side,

they are addressing this important tools and instruments that are required for this country. that's going to survive the shift within the macro economic say. we've been that down and ukraine will also be let down. that is the reality. the bridge we're trying to, the likely i believe and always predicted that there will be a replacement. so obviously landscape should come 1st before the negotiations on to time. we'll see properties and those needed perhaps a return up soon was needing your client or for the american list key are still reaching out. so it, it really depends on yeah, yeah, but then today when to see you then yeah, but that, that will not have any impact on russia, security interest whatsoever. this is a west side or some of the roads, a, it's a nato problem. this has always been a native problem, gentleman that's all the time we have a one to think, my guess and mark, say athens and in stockholm. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. remember, across knuckles the, the,

the during the 2nd will pull underground tyrant, military organizations in potent occupied by german troops. as well as in the bordering regions of bella, ruas were united into the so called home on a trip to the center or the or the prospect. just say it's because i use a blue screen list. and by putting the front of it is actually considered in the

ship where they put you through this issue of shy stick of the who mom. it was the main organization that zip code is resistance. fighting against jim and occupation and soviet rule. somebody's been in the army currently. we want to continue to level ship. police are plenty of the boys still exciting and so he's going to put those on anything, isn't this, you know, that's what i was the home on a carried out operations to destroy the nazis. but then switch to settling schools with soviet partisans and the civilian population that supported them. they have never bytes it automatically over to destroy your customers any today, but i didn't in the new dates. i bought it from my goal is to have your product is on a new product that has to be a liberal in agreement or just the booklet is divided 6 the those up levels, toys the ones you got, my students deal them when you have no heat so process jimson, we generally for using the new motion the

the whole these are the facilities that medical facilities and also medical the board retrace team. they affected by the fighting. yes, there is a potentially very high risk associated with that. the red cross sounds the alarm over the fighting in the democratic republic of congo, wanting that if the valid ends in golf, the parents have been funded by live there. the consequences could be cut this traffic, the popping, the and a sub i think a cows lawanda that any further attacks against the peacekeeping forces in the d. r . c will be treated as an act of war. it comes out. the 13 of his troops were