the, the the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. i'm peter level drum says he wants to end the conflict in ukraine. his rhetoric appears to demonstrate a negotiating strategy. but what does ending the conflict mean? victory for one side and defeat for the other. importantly, what does piece mean in this context? the

crossing ukraine, i'm joined by my guess, mets nielsen in stockholm. he is a senior, and it was a does. it didn't club in athens. we have dmitri gloss caught us, he is a lawyer and a freelance journalist and him are say we cross to pretty pantano. he's an independent journalist and contributor at 21st century wire or at tillman cross black roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate that. so let's go to you 1st and stop. com. um, you know, every few hours there is a new headline about a negotiating position. now the trump is thinking, this is advisors are thinking that even in ukraine they're saying this is what the trunk team is thinking. um. it's all nice and fine. i'm glad they're thinking about it here, but there doesn't seem to be any coherence to any of it. if anything, it's there among their talking among themselves. negotiating with the other side meeting. russia isn't even in the cards. yeah. and your thoughts go ahead and i think especially europe is still stuck in an item this the position,

the swedish afford and administer on monday of this week said that we, europeans have 3 core interests. and this was my re stand a guard to the swedish for the minister saying this. we have 3 core interests as your opinions, keeping ukraine strong, russia we and the u. s. in. now, i don't really know where to start to, well, well, map and match. so i, i, you know, i, i, i'm not really a well aware of the, the, the, your foreign minister, but i mean, those are not the new ideas that is been, that was the mentor of the cold war. so, i'm not even imagine the imaginative thinking coming out of what you're repeating. capitals continue please. you know, it's, it's, they're, they're stuck in, in the, in the world as they wanted to be. there is obviously no

reality based discussion with india in union and trying to match trumps new rhetoric. even though denmark is being threatened to, the european leaders are still stuck in, in the i the list come and call us said, i think this past weekend said the data to us in the interest all the europe, to, uh, uh, dismantled russia and break it off into smaller parts. i don't know where this came from, but it's this, this a briefs and idea that's been been with the european union and especially with um, i would say england since the time of the great game. russia has always been seeing us as an adversary now at trump coming in and kind of at re lighting the fire of the or original monroe,

dr. tree. meaning that trump is signaling that america is now going to focus on his part of the western hemisphere with panama threatening columbia. going after canada, looking at greenland with which is geographically in the monroe doctrine hemisphere might mean that there is a situation where trump is doing what is best for america. and that is preparing america to be able to fend for itself when it comes to resources. when it comes to production and when it comes to negotiating from a position of strength. and once america reaches this, perhaps we can have a new y'all's back conference. yeah. where this leaves europe, and i'll just my, my, for my, for the final say, this leads europe in a situation where europe is going to have to wake up and smell the coffee. but they

will be doing it too late to the bad remain relevant at europe is making itself irrelevant as we speak. yeah, well, a dmitri no wonder trump doesn't take any of the europeans. seriously. there is no reason to and that is not a, a, a, on my part of the greenwood transform policy, but the europeans have made themselves physically relevant to be treat it. it's very interesting here. um, trump says he wants to end complex, but the problem with that thinking on for ending them too. but he doesn't understand how to resolve them. and that is the problem with the ukraine. he wants to end it, but he doesn't resolve it in the sense that the russians wants it to be resolved, in terms of their security interest. that part of the equation is not part of western thinking right now. demetrius, as well as let's 1st of all be honest and clear about trump special record. trump likes to boast about the fact that he didn't start any new wars. perhaps that's accurate,

but he didn't maintain unjust debacles. he continued to prosecute the scanned war. although we talked about bringing it to an end under his administration, the 1st administration us occupied large slots of syria and c admitted they were there to take the oil. he continued to arm israel, which is in a perpetual state of war with its neighbors. so he actually doesn't have a record as a peacemaker. nonetheless, i do think, peter, that he does have a sincere desire to bring this to the end a to the problem that trump confronts, however, and is probably one to which he is completely in a custom that in his career as a business person, is that he has 0 leverage because of the by ministration managed to prolong this war just long enough to bring the disaster to the door step of the truck at the very moment when the ukraine army is on the verge of collapse. and the sanctions have failed. uh, i think the coverage of air in the us military stocks are almost there. so what

leverage the does he have? he has none and therefore he's kind of flailing around. he doesn't really know what to do. the sad truth for donald trump is he's there to sign the articles of confederation at this stage, and that's exactly what the circumstances present to him. and i don't know if he's mentally psychologically prepared for that said rule. well, exactly, because freddy trump talks about consequences for, for russia, for putin. and he doesn't say exactly what he's going to do, but there will be consequences again. and that's why we're doing this program. i'm trying to get my hands around. well, if you want to end this and you want to talk to the russians, why aren't you doing it? i mean, i mean 1st and we thought to resolve it in 24 hours that and then we get to know it's going to be in the 1st 100 days. and then some magical thinking on may 9th of a victory day in a, in rush. so commemorating the defeat of the nazis. i mean,

why would they signed an agreement on that day? uh, nobody needs it. somebody needs to explain all this. to me. go ahead pretty well peter, we, we're like here. you know, we're trying to make sense of what's coming out of this us and ministration sense. i think everybody recognizes drums kind of tendency for i to bali and misguided common. so it's nothing you hear what we're trying to understand. release the mindset. i think it's very important to understand the mindset of the us administration, dest, you administrations as a program. we know during the presidential election, trump said that he wanted to move out to the troops, the us troops from around the world and bring them back home, trying to avoid conflicts around the welsh and bring peace did well. so again, pieces of mindset and what if i'm difficult to believe in anything that has been presented so far is the id that we can get to piece, which is a process which is the outcome,

the product of negotiations related to the terms of surrender. and unless we can stop to hear about the acceptance that you've trained might have been defeated in this particular battle in this particular world that the nato us starting to recognize that this conflict is, has to come to an end because there is no positive outcome possible for you try and then at that time there is no point to him to attend any discussions with about to piece 1st your next step to the fits and then you off the victor see me up. but if i give you the opportunity to go show distance, yeah, but for the year, you're being very, very rational about this. i'm going to go to mats right now, but it would pretty said, you know, be the talking about taking pictures. we have to use the word capitulation on this program, but not say that they're still the mindset in the west. the russia has to capitulate . we, we have made no progress because that's not going to happen mats. so headed up, and that's the problem. and it's uh, the question is, how, how bloody of

a nose does the west need to receive before they realize that russia has a severe of influence that we need to allow russia to have. now what i'm thinking about trump going, all in or, or seeming to go on in with the old monroe doctrine, is the fact that we, perhaps your can be reminded of the concept of acceptable swears of influence. that was the old. no, i mean, in mexico, it's a solver a nation, but should mexico didn't invite chinese troops onto mexican soil. obviously, americans not going to accept that. and i think most countries in europe would say, it's okay for america to, to, uh, uh, the chinese take the chinese away from mexico. and we need to remind europe about the fact that even during the cold war,

you had buffer systems that you didn't touch. so we need it's sad to say, but we need to go back to the cold warm mentality where we create borders and we create a fight. so, so yeah, but no. okay, but i, i get where i get your drift where you're going here to meet. we can, can we say, you know, is for years of security inside of, you know, because that's what it's all about. it's about security and the indivisibility of security. this is something the west used to believe in, but doesn't believe anymore, because because it's russia 40 seconds before we go to the break, dimitri. yes, but there's also certain error of unreality to some of this conversation with all due respect to our conference in here. i don't think that your business is part of the equation here. the series of security are going to be turned in by the united states and the russian federation. and i don't think the european union at this stage is going to be a significant factor in that. and i think the sooner that the europeans get the group on that reality, the, the, the, the better off it will be, or. yeah,

exactly. we do in a way, gentlemen, before we go to the break, we're at 1945 again because it's going to be 2 outside powers is going to decide the fate of europe, and that's europe's fault. in this case, gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here, we're gonna go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll keep are going to continue our discussion on ukraine state without the least russian states. never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best. most all sense of the, in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will ben in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on russia cruising and supports the ortiz full neck team,

and our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say a request, which is the silver the had a pretty well. we'll just need to just include the plug in any components, just responding to the dresser and put all the states gradually saving the most of us to call yourself what's your information? so you need, okay, what's the rubbish to rubbish cubes that are in the a particular user, you know, and it goes out any of the stuff,

please. it has taken poison brush nickel if we support your community, it is to me on the worst of we should that a will glad shoppers test, which is the issue worse name. you're still doing down the road and just go ahead and put all in this way and the tip they're doing instead of sort of going on here . and there must be sort of, you know, near to ask you sort of your internet service to the welcome act. across software, all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to mind you were discussing ukraine. the okay, want to go back to dimitry. i want you to be able to finish your uh, answer um, before we went to the break it before you do, though, it's already been mentioned on this program and it's the,

it's the alta 2 point. oh, now if you look at most histories of the cold war, this was a, impose peace on europe. but europe had destroyed itself and become irrelevant in international politics. but that's essentially what it's done again. and i would prefer that they would be everyone would be a shareholder in their faith, but in the case we have now, we could have, we're approaching an escalation, possibly that would uh see us confronting world war 3. so maybe, but we do need a you all to hear because from the russians position, we have to solve all problems here. and not just who's going to rule in care of, for example, in the, in the americans just don't have the imagination to do that. right. now, dmitri a unfortunately, there's even less, you know, prospect for effective negotiations with the european is going to negotiate on behalf of europeans,

rosalia priscilla of wonderland. right. you guys are on the winning team. oh, okay. no, do, for 6, she has put democratic legitimacy. all that schultz is on his way out the door. i'm a crone who has a 21 percent approval rating. i mean, who is going to negotiate on behalf of the europeans? europeans made themselves earlier. relevant to my opinion, the nail in the coffin of european real era, a relevancy was when the entire e. you buried the fact that the binding ministration blew up the north stream pipeline. yeah, i mean they, they did absolutely nothing to defend their interest. and now we have this ridiculous spectacle, we're trump, is calling up the danish prime minister and demanding that you hand over greenland . europe is whether or not a serious the european reaction is extraordinarily telling there just sitting there, paralyzed like deer and the headlight. so although as to european because i am also european purchase, the canadian, i am ashamed and deeply dr. distraught by the situation,

the political realities here, these are the political realities. and so ultimately, this is going to be determined by to great powers, and europe is going to be a bystander, even though europe's interest or more affected than those of anybody by this particular war. yeah, and, and probably how is all of this going to actually help ukraine? i mean, the more the americans in the europeans quote unquote help ukraine. the smaller ukraine gets its population get smaller, its prospects or dimmer. i mean, maybe ukraine has had enough help from the west. freddy, as well. the ukraine is pretty much left on that side with them. and you've got britain on one side in the united states. and as demetrius say, europe has become extremely irrelevant. it's been, we put all eggs into, into send baskets for, for decades, and let the united states run to show our policies and our security affairs. so we have no solutions to offer. and so we have a decline in popularity among so teenagers and key leading economies in europe,

namely germany and france as well. so options are pretty much locked and we can clearly see already under your pin commission standard of trying to draft plans and, and white papers on the how to, to revamp their security and defense policies. but it's what tech is, and it's not a mac router going around $200.00 various european states, trying to allow us for more money, more contributions to us, to defiance and increasing the, you know, defense to expenditures, to 4 or $5.00 to cents. it's ridiculous, this is just equal in what donald trump's wants and buddy, it's not representing and it's not providing ukraine with any solutions because they all know solutions. that is the bottom line. it is at the end of the day or more what it was for the, for the wrong reasons. and 80 breached to, to death, could have led to peace, you know, and then lead or diminished agreements as well as the, uh, the, uh, the piece agreements. and uh, if i seem to take it back to, to, you could have provided a at a very early stage is solutions. so the problem is when you let the country go on,

and so you have a, an outgoing administration that is just keep on spending more money to avoid efforts. ukraine has bought the lie find out, and the default that they could secure a new membership, dis, wait sorted out. and i think you were coming to reality. kerry shows that this is not going to happen. and i'm folks from the tree. the 2 major powers you uh, do united states and rush, i would have to come to some kind of agreement and it's going to be extremely hard because we can clearly see the will folks inside the us administration still promoting and trying to to, to bring more support to ukraine when the president itself is trying to talk about peace. so this dichotomy is a, obviously a extremely worrying and concerning on the global stage. and we cannot make any sense out of it because we don't know what the all the discussions behind the back doors between the crime and washington dc. well, so my friend already, what time i,

i don't think there are really any discussions going on right now. okay. and we, i think we would have an indication of that, of what direction these things are going to go by the time we in this program. somebody else is going to come out with a new plan in washington that the russians haven't even heard about. this is where we are, you know, matt's one of the things that i found always very, very puzzling, even way before the special military operation. i do program after program about european security, and i would always ask the question, if you're so afraid of russia and rushes so aggressive, why is it hard to get nato countries to pay for their defense? i mean, if it's an ex, essential threat, you'd think everyone say, you know, cut social programs, we have to defend ourselves. but nobody in europe is saying that just people in brussels in, in london and in washington. okay. and the arms of producers go ahead match. it's very simple, it's because of the politicians and the military planners within the nature or

within the european union. they know that russia is not an existential threat to them. it's a, it's us who say i, i could have respected the policies of the european union. if the european union have said, russia is a major threat to us, we're going to take our young men and women from the european union, and we're going to send them to ukraine to the front lines. we're going to have them fight russia now, because russia is a threat to us. but that's obviously not the case. so what they're doing is they're keeping the conflict on the low burn. now, in order to one, facilitate the military industrial profits, which in turn, pays for the think tanks, which in turn pays for the politicians. secondly, the slow burn european union there your opinion, it was hoping it would weaken russia. however, it had stripped, has a strength of strength and russia,

and now they are in full panic and they're trying to come up with these silly 200 year political the. so i just want to tell everybody the u. k. has a 100 year security agreement with you, correct. but we don't even know if your credit is going to make it to the end of the year that this is kind of base our fantasy. go ahead, man. i, i remember reading in one of my books, the at charles, the goal, one of the true statesmen of europe, a charles to go as old friends, french pressure and said that treaties are like roses. they're beautiful until they are not. and the, this is the same with the truth is that the european union now are trying to make amends by signing here and there. but the european union, as they're irrelevant, they're proven themselves weak and they're proven themselves irrelevant. but by doing this off, i'm not sure. so it's,

it's hopefully at the united states and russia can, and this, and europe and union best just sit down and be quiet in class while the grow. now the mattress lately. but there's a problem there. there's a big problem, there can be 3 big problem. there's a big problem there, dimitri, because objectively speaking, looking at mens one minutes to assemble watches the russians trust, the west, we could go on computer, we could the, the anti ballistic. and so 3 of the intermediate nuclear for us is trudy, the nuclear deal with iran that obama negotiated these people to treat treaties like toilet paper. i mean, it's not quite is uh, you know, a politic is the charles the government for. but that is the reality. they have absolutely no regard for their own commitments. and the russians now understand that painfully well. and so any, i think resolution is going to have to provide to the russians, a level of security that goes well beyond

a paper agreement. and really what it is that, what to give the russians the kind of security they require and reasonably desire without that goes beyond the treaty. well, that's the, the destruction of the ukrainian army. that's what it is. i don't think this is going to stop until the ukrainian army no longer has the ability to pose a threat to russia. i think that lensky will have to be gone. she'll have to be replaced by somebody who has a grip on reality. and only then will a deal get done. and that's no matter what donald trump says, no matter what the european say, that's where we're at. at this particular stage, i, i believe in a friend, a frightening the one of the other issues here is that, you know, ukraine will continue fighting because it's a lead lensky and his cronies. they're making a lot of money off of this. i'm sure it's all been squirreled away here, but this will go on until the us and nato decided it is no longer worthwhile

because the russians, they're winning. why should they stop winning? is freddy, is exactly so a matter of his perspective, i think from on the, on donald trump scans that, that looking at this potential negotiations from these on a conference, from what they know, what they can handled. and the reality of the battle field actually dictate this kind of negotiations. and then on the other side, of course, the reality not, did you do you a politics, but the economy and the macro or economy. it's a reality is also kitchenaid and say you have it for europe that is completely united, create as far as on to training the reality of a multi point of welds. and so we drawn an independent nations, a powerful nation, or you will, you aspire to be a member of a powerful nation. you need to have this instrument, you need to revive audio systems, you know, from, you know, as i say, transportations. ready you bank the way your, your transfer your money. everything needs to be re adapted to internet independence fashion to address the multiple. well, something that's we have not done something that the rush has been able to do

during the conflicts. so i just sent time to have a country a battle to fight, and on the other side, they are addressing this important tools and instruments that are required for this country. that is going to survive the shift within the macro economic say. we've been that down and ukraine will also be let down. that is the reality. the bridge we're trying to, the likely on i believe, and always predicted that there will be a replacement. so obviously landscape should come 1st before the negotiations onto time. we'll see properties in those need. perhaps a return up soon was needing ukraine or for the american liskey are still beach and i so it, it really depends on yeah, yeah. but then today when to see you then yeah, but that that will not have any impact on russian security interest whatsoever. this is a west cottage from 0, it's a, it's a unique co problem. this has always been a native problem. gentleman, that's all the time we have a one to think, my guess, and mark say athens and in stockholm. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, cross knuckles,

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