yes, and whether or not chemical and tax had indeed been perpetrated by the government. so these were points of contention. as the hearings went on, it's also gabbert expressed a lot of outrage about the united states having supported terrorists in syria and other countries. saying that she enlisted in the military, specifically because of the $911.00 attacks and a desire to stops terrorist organizations like outside of that she was particularly outraged by the obama administration and it's alliance with such terrorist and syria and elsewhere. now the sessions got rather intense when the issue of edward snowden came up. at one point, it was made clear the chelsea gabbert was simply unwilling to call the whistle blower a traitor to the united states. something that many in the senate committee members simply didn't approve of. can we do better than somebody who doesn't believe in 7 o 2? can we believe that somebody who can answer whether snowdon was a traitor, 5 times today, congress on gabbert emphasize that her job was to enforce and follow the u. s. law

. and that while she did not appreciate some of the activities that edward snowden exposed, she did recognize that he is revealing of those activities was illegal and she would enforce and abide by the law as intelligence director during the 2016 elections, tulsa gab are in for trade herself as an anti establishment rebel standing up to the d. n. c. and her anti war stance is got her labeled as a russian asset by hillary clinton to endorse bernie sanders rather than parties favorite hillary rodham clinton. and she even met with syrian president bashar al assad, all of this and her, the rebuke of the establishment. but now donald trump has appointed her as his director of national intelligence. before she entered the u. s. congress, tulsa gathered, worked with her father to oppose the l. g b t agenda in the state of hawaii. the certainly didn't match the trend among the democratic party at the time. supporters alley,

behind tulsa gabbert and seeing her as unafraid as saying things that might make her unpopular with the washington dc, lead democrats, republicans, the main stream media, the washington elite, essentially in the pocket of the military industrial complex. and rather than looking out for what's in the best interest of the american people, our national security, our country, they see dollar science when they look at ukraine, there are $25.00 to $30.00 us funded bio labs in ukraine. according to the us government. these bio labs are conducting research on dangers pathogens. ukraine is in an active or zone with widespread bombing, or tillery and selling. and these facilities, even in the best of circumstances, could easily be compromised and released these deadly pathogens. now light cove, it these passages no no borders the today's democratic party, it's controlled by fanatical id logs. who hate freedom,

they despise the constitution. there is no shelter us. our leaders failed us them and they continue to fail us now. it will ultimately be a vote of the us senate that determines whether or not she's confirmed for the job . now donald trump also has the option of giving her a recess appointment. but after today's hearing, it seems very possible that tulsa gabbert could be confirmed. there were a few votes that remain in question, and there will be more proceedings that take place behind closed doors. kayla, i'm off in washington dc. right up night and still i'm feeling a lot of his guess on across. so guy will be back as of now the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter level. the trump administration has quickly realized ending the ukraine. complex is going to be difficult and time consuming. also, there is a growing understanding that the end of fighting does not necessarily mean creating the conditions of peace, the cross section ukraine. i'm joined by my guess in proud in london. he is a senior british, the bill that an author of a myspace in moscow. how british diplomacy and russian failed in providence. we have let him have goldstein. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university. and here in moscow we have pepe escobar. he is a geo political analyst and author quite gentlemen,

cross black roles and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate and i'm just gonna go straight to the point. does the trump administration have any idea on how to approach the goal that the new president has of ending the conflict in ukraine? go for it, a legal moving idea of the previous administration, which had no idea to a thing, they have a desire to do. let's see if i can get them assigned to page and as soon as possible the challenge will be to get so that's gets to okay, but vladimir the way i've seen people talking about it within the administration and in the trans atlantic world in general. and they're actually talking to themselves remarkably, they're not talking to the russians yet, but they're actually thinking more along the lines of a minsk agreement, which is an absolutely non starter. they the because the minsk agreements weren't fulfilled as one of the reasons why we're here today. vladimir yeah,

i have the feeling red. uh it is a border, is it a look for ross, lizzie? sure. rushing. you. great. and it's not that high on, on drums agenda. so he is so you know, pursue and other issues. and consequently, i don't think you get time and he kind of opportunity to see all sides of the issue. so here course brag that he's going to solve is going to make people strong . but you know, cool, he's got a notice in the door. i would have to wait til, you know, say military industrial complex can say to other people say because you know, we've gone from vans report from us, but it's, but from other people and they say it would have to resolve it. but how do these over at united states, obviously as so i'm glad america 1st. they want to preserve interest. if somebody is in the, he's administration, could meet this game that us still continued to make money, or at least conflict, you know, it will go on because i don't think there is again this because you know what, you in the united states,

the only thing they stand to benefit from it is may be in the future forge in some kind of russian american alliance versus dr. if that's kind of his interest and he's going to be in, is, was doing it, then maybe he'll pursue doing it. but for the idea that i don't, he, i don't see any kind of a, the goal clear thing. and just to say, let's solve it just to show it to his voters. who guy did it invalid we pursue my other agenda. that's i think you're what, yeah, well, what the vladimir, everything you just said might be nice and fine, but it has nothing to do with the crane. i guess that's the problem here. you know, peppy donald trump likes to say that he doesn't want to start wars. okay. during his 1st administration, i think we could say that that was true. he didn't really and many things, but that, that always president again and he says he's against the war. and, and maybe he wants to end this conflict and ukraine, but he's not going to was solve the, the,

the root issues of why these conflicts come about. we can talk about ukraine, we can talk about the ongoing genocide in gaza. i mean, the problem, i guess, from the, from russia's perspective is that they want to end fighting, but they don't want to have peace. there is a difference there, pepe. well, the russian reaction so far has been fascinating to watch. which means, uh no reaction at all. they're just waiting for the moment. there is this disco inferno, as i claim that in my late to assess what they call them on the other side. lots of bombast, lots of sound and fury, without even trying to call pest golf to set up a phone call between through a trump and putting nothing in ever seeing that was leaked across the bell 3 and from wash them. and some people's bought by the trump administration itself, from 2.0 itself points to

a missed 3. obviously this is not going to work. so the russian poses a put things position. so okay, we are open for meaningful discussions. even the 1st phone call and even if there is a meeting in the 1st 90 days or so, it's not gonna be meaningful. it's gonna be a fantastic spectacle for the cameras. cameras, click on everywhere, has a bombastic headlines, a blue ad, but no substance. well, in your, you know, you have a experience in this field here. i mean, what is this about the phone call? when setting up a meeting? i mean, at least in the old days when you, when greg leaders met they, they signed things. they had already agreed to some things, so i'm kind of agreeing with pepe here. i mean, i can see the, the public relations side benefits. without any substance. it's going to hurt both food and, and trump go ahead. i mean something page. and obviously you need to, okay,

when that's scheduled and how that happens isn't another matter. but that's the key for us that be in a agreement taking place. i just wanted to say on the mysql agreement, actually the 1st on the 2nd, most agreements weren't bad. they failed because us and the british wanted them to fail. and because the, the cranes that she killed to just full broadcast in february 2022. so the agreements themselves weren't actually bad, is just, we invested in that fight and therefore they failed. but anyway, i'll leave you that, but i mean, well, no, no, well, since you mentioned it that way, i appreciate it. i mean they failed because they, they were supposed to fail. so why would moscow trust the interlocutors from the west that would even be remotely suggesting something of the same? what the problem here gentlemen, is the lack of trust in exactly is an absolute lack of trust and that like who just doesn't day banks. 2022 is actually but days back to 2014. and the old sense of the cost is a senior thinking and the lesson presidential administration told me event that in

2014, to take a decade, at least, to start to build some trust that's now going to be 2 decades. so there's no trust . but the, you know, conversations is a 1st step and actually starting slowly to rebuild that trust. well, i mean, but vladimir, i mean, you know, you, you, you said in your 1st answer that it's not really a top priority for, for the trump administration. well, what accounts for his, it were, the russian economy is failing with the russians have a 1000000 casualties. where is this coming from? i mean, is he just shooting from the hip? is this what his intelligence people are telling him? i mean, it's all, i can tell you most people they know what's going on with uh with this crisis. good . this kind of laughs out their sleeves. i mean, why is he saying this is this part of the negotiating gamut vladimir? yeah, i don't think he is of either you're aware of that. i know what was the root of the problem. that is, you know, brody, he's fred, this information because they still talk about something image,

but i'm going to do almost the 20th century. that is, you know, so i'm sure i understand it, but we'll have to leave minutes or i should the export oil and things of that nature. while they are heated. i didn't hear my address and the fundamental issue that need to on russian borders is, is a special threat. they understand when a diesel said, such as such as duration is, is the spanish of that. but one of the 5 they don't understand, is it in case the rest of this is disease issue? first of all, they say no more. so it's normal needs. oh, we're basically going into a regional ideas on age, or we have to stay around germany sofa. we didn't hear this, so the whole i going to, the assumption is greater than any other functions. it is a sign that they don't understand what extra hopes of all things would begin. it's plus, there is no real dog. i'll send over a new dean towards the end of this. you know, a bonus is oh or you break. there's got a new and lots of boys. he's been is rational language barrier. i some culture.

you're not misleading. it'd be about this a to so point a j u r existing shows that i have to russia and you know, they have to, they have neighbors, the friends, that brothers after knob like they, they were born. they get not just this unacceptable. i don't think he sofa addressed that. i went to the, you know, me, is a landscape and we didn't talk about what about what that's the problem is, you know, pepe. you're a frequent visitor to moscow. and you know, sanctions is always 112 on the toolbox for the american administration, but you'd be advised and are trump, how are you when you visit moscow? how do you see sanctions impacting the country? there's no impact. uh, in this past 2 years, i spent almost 6 months both years in moscow and traveling around flatly of all still cars on st. petersburg, thought you, etc. you'll see minor inconveniences,

but you don't see the practical effect of sanctions. first of all, and ever seeing that is being fed to trump so far in this, let's say the 1st 10 days or so is being fed by the c. i a and it's completely absurd in terms of the dreadful state of the russian economy, unemployment, they have no money on the demo. they're gonna sell their energy and said, this is ridiculous, it is the opposite of what we see when we are here effect. so trump is positioning himself in a way so far, it looks like he's positioning himself to a known dialogue or a dialogue that will go nowhere. and then that can be blamed on polluting and russian. this is unfair is very, it's straightforward negotiating tactic, but it's not going to work as well because it's up to then the minister of foreign affairs in russia and to putting themselves to tell, look, he doesn't want to talk about the substance. because for instance,

he doesn't even understand the meaning of indivisibility or security. so we have to go back to late 2019, those same, those letters that was sent to the previous administration. they didn't respond. and this was a proposal for a serious dialogue ending ukraine loss and is included in this big discussion about indivisibility, all security, europe and the both soviet space. nobody in trump circle apparently mentioned that to him. well, in, again being the diplomat. it seems that the, you know, this core issue of security which i want to talk about in the 2nd part of the program, is largely absent from the conversation. and before we go to the brake flush on the back, she has that. recognize that nathan membership is a, is a big strategic issue for russia. i'm think you sent to that, that should be taken off the table. i've been playing for a long time to that has to be taken off the table for a piece,

talks to me for that piece to me by far the biggest of the book look forward to getting into that discussion. embody so yeah, it's really interesting because i can appreciate the trump wanting to end the conflict. but the problem is, is that he's not addressing the root causes of how it came about. and this is, you know, something, you know, the, the cold war was never resolved satisfactorily. it should have been, and we're living with the consequences about today. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team, the the welcome back,

across software. all things are considered non peter le belcher mind, you were discussing the ukraine situation. the well is it often is it during the break some of the most important things are said, so i'm going to return to them for the broadcast here. and let me go back to you here. i mean, why should trump and this war? i mean, lot of people are profiting from it. the european slavish, they do what they are told a the americans will sell them really high energy. i mean, if it's not broken, why fix it? i mean, that's what the syndic would say. and i think that's a sentiment that you can find in some western capitals in are fully installed in full, keep paying simple, and the americans don't want to keep paying for the war. and i see, you know, ukraine is getting elated with that. so the comedy go on financially beyond does she have any way? so you know, people need find enough clamp and i think that's why we all today. okay,

well i mean a lot of mirror um, a lot of people call this a, a griff tier. i mean, that's one of the reasons many would say is that zalinski is going to fight to the last ukranian because it's a good business model for him and is his leads and policies being encouraged by so many people. it's still very bipartisan in the west, like, you know, on this for a girl. i bring critics on all the time because they're willing to talk about it. but it still has not made an impact on many of the leads in the west. russia can't win. that's the mantra. go ahead vladimir. that's absolutely true, and i think it varies the division. and the reason is really simple. comment to people on not very happy about it because you know it to be an installation and other things. but uh, all this kind of leads in a chapter in glosses or politicians, they are making money of it and he was a bit obliged of course it can you great animal, most diet your under because common people that die in throes and ruby interactions

as well. but basically, what, what, what happens as far as a lead seconds, an insane broken. let's not fix it because the money is coming as they are right. the course of like way of helping the underdog and the laser, the has to pay for that with that money with their lives, with that kind of unions, us. and so i on to. but what is it just, it was especially in europe, what they are doing. any body in the united states is different from manage. so the somehow to 2 categories and when, but in europe, bead france b, germany, anybody who says we have to stop and it's a feasible outcome and people are suffering. inflation is, you know, be a about the rules. they tried to lead dealer demise this by just so i'll totally georgia's are positively to legitimize and so on. so i brothers that richmond i'd gotten hold for the war. yeah. well, the discounts a little less than like in romania,

another great democratic experiment in the hearts of europe. it's, it's, it's a sample of pepe. there's one thing that is obvious that we always, we should be aware of should tell our viewers. is it escalation is always an option, it's always an option. okay? because that's how some people interpret this. trump is threatening, but if it doesn't come to the table, then you'll get my rap. it's always there. escalation is always a possibility. go ahead. pepsi and escalation will be discussed by the way, uh, early next week in brussels, by um me to, uh, you, council of notables. all of them, all the 27 will be there and they will be talking about the armament they will be talking about continued as far as, as long as they kept with the money they, they don't have, by the way. and with the famous 5 percent that was imposed by trump and was being

posed by duty for rudy, the nato secretary general, that that's thing. and it's, it's beyond the, as you said, it's beyond a joke and they are inflicted on themselves. and they want to keep going with this war, even if they can not do it from the point of view of the industrial complex and us as a completely different proposition because they are making a lot of money out of it. so this good from their point of view and the fact that the americans are not direct me both american troops of my lives. all direct and vote is perfect is slabs killing slabs and until the last 2 brain. so there are a lot of hidden interest to one, throw this up plencik interests, of course, the one that the war to, to go on. trump is he sees the war purely on a cos benefits basis. no, i don't want to pay for it. no, i have better things to do and better things to do is that for with china and the war that he's going to launch against many of the bricks countries. in fact, theories everywhere is going to be

a battery. so now me all over the place. this is what his thinking about not to frame. yeah. well, you know, it's a drum. so we're on the global south when it comes to sanctions. and parents is only going to be a win for russian china. it's really externally, externally help myopic. these people are in washington and again being a diplomat knowing diplomatic history, why can't we have a you all to a 2 point? oh, i mean, big picture stuff. you know, another health, thank you. process. um, you know, have a resolution to a hosting he process, resolve the issues of the 2nd world war. we need another one to codified the end of the cold war. in the new realities. big picture, it doesn't have to be about ukraine. it can be about everything about security for all that would work, but there is no political will for it in as well as you and joshua is still a good document, is just to kind of cost that aside as west as imposes this notion of a little space international and so you know,

they've defied the existing rules and increases non k divided. so the rules are new . they can apply new to, to countries with a, you know, they disagree. so another conference i mean, really works is for every parties of mine to type on an equal basis until that happens. you know, if it's only going to be western dominated kind of phone must like they can of us. let's keys, you know, piece somebody's last year to which, you know, much of wasn't invited and most people didn't attend the knots, nobody going to be the on. so i was, well, obviously, but, you know, when you think of the nato after the end of the cold war it's, it's, uh, architecture was, uh, designed to against then with and without russia. when i was thinking about a yell to 2 point, oh, which would reconsider that. i mean, nato is the problem here. it's not the solution, but there is no problem. there is no willingness to recognize that the russian side

of said over and over and over again for, for it since the end of the cold war, nato expansion is something that we will not accept. and they said finally, we don't accept that we have ukraine. so, i mean, let me throw this the bottom here right now. if we have bigger thinking, it can solve smaller problems. vladimir, as well was ice observed an extra day as bridget disturbing beecher, despite all the internet, despite all this flow of information. most of the people in the you are, but you drill out punch in united states as well. they actually came in the dark about russia. what is it? i have some concerns but they don't exist. the only thing they hear is unbearable. i just a private book and evasion and they hear the day and they out, you know, i travel a lot and you know, i was, i'm, you know, i like, you know, to check what's going on with that g with be the be the way i was a show again that it wasn't in france, but oh, there is a sorry, you know, i see does it. so basically, you know, it may, i'm sure there's people,

if they work, verify those already and then know they might find something, but it's in a wall in the indian country, france, spain, both the germany, they don't hear much so close. and one thing, it's not that, you know, they do not have to have meaningful negotiations. me, i've also the resolution. you'll have to understand where each side is coming from . they don't know where the russians are coming from. the only things that here is big bed, uh voyages and the better i said, doing the usual thing in reading it, the other drug tests, that's what they hear. and i don't know how to break some of those. you know, i imagine this, i'm, but it is a few that, but i will visit so far. it works for them to continue as the population is, are because a, this population keeps them in their places. and so it's, it's a bit sedation. yeah. but pepe, you're a man that is very knowledgable and you're actually a hero in the global south. i know that for a fact in the global south, everybody knows pepe escobar bikes. it. it's all b as here. but there's

a vast majority of the world. that's where the growth in the future is going to be . what did they think of all of this? i'm just supposing it from what vladimir just said about western audiences and publics. is sacrifice is in your this past few months. i was in natal stuff mostly in france, and that is absolutely correct. there is absolutely no space for russian concerns. the russian point of view is that the demonization campaign and russo phobia are of the charts all the time by the, especially by the all the guard school control, the media, you know, these you, nations, across the board is a different story. what you hear, for instance, even in argentina, which is controlled by uh, that chain. so uh, the method, the chair of the, uh, people understand the russian position and this is discussed that you're not cut that mix or a causal force equal to 0. the same thing, the average brazilian has

a soft spot for russia, and they try to understand russian motivations and even what caused the s m o in the 1st place across 40. so se, asia, same thing, there's a lot of russia has a good political capital across amazon as well. and because of the efforts of russian diplomats dispatched to 3 years, especially as the most of us young understands that the worship position and no wonder that as the on is coming to briggs now we have for as the power houses as breaks members, including main donasia which is a full bricks member. there is no room. so phobia across the southeast asia for us as well. china, of course, it's a chapter in itself because china, even though seizing being never approved, let's say a 100 percent d. s. m o. uh, there are efforts by chinese media,

which as we know is heavily control to explain the russian position to the chinese public. and this is well understood all across china as well. so we see only what, what i called natal stand this space, which is my are a little so full. yeah. a and believing in their own propaganda and believing in your own propagate. okay. and we have one minute left here and you're the diplomats on the program. will diplomacy? really a b t to this new administration. and i'm not thinking of only about ukraine, but i'm thinking about a west asia or the middle east is diploma. so going to be a tool that's going to be deployed because the last administration didn't do it. go ahead. but it must be this been a complete deposit of the diplomatic space. i move into a debt case us and we don't send the credit cards. it's not a 2014 tool, it's kind of increasing that as far as ation of you and elsewhere have them. at least as we've seen, we need to get back to the far more difficult task of actually talking to people with whom you disagree that needs to play and seem to come by what the full phone

for the 1st time in a buck aid. all right, gentlemen, absolutely. you know, blue ribbon panel, absolutely fabulous discussion. i want to thank you very much. i want to thank my guess and providence london, and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time remember, prospect rules the, the take a fresh look around is life kaleidoscopic. isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions fixtures designed to simplify. it will confuse who really wants a better wills and is it just because it shows you fractured images,

presented to this? but can you see through their illusions, going underground? can the strong evidence all the planning medicaid itself is uncovered as russian falls? is we take area though, because region need. so these, these are the 3 to eat, feels accusing me of being trumps puppet hooton's puppet sides puppet a bruised puppet modi's puppet, the nobody to us, and naturally intelligence. all right, so defensive lives foss, criticism during the senate confirmation hearings. so they go on says she follows her own things. most of those worksheet is like the rolanda who's out. absolutely. you can are you saying the rest of cots age, the applicant and asian will not result?