is the single based color, the invalid, the setting you can use the the hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . so trump administration has quickly realized ending the ukraine. complex is going to be difficult and time consuming. also, there is a growing understanding that the end of fighting does not necessarily mean creating the conditions of peace. the cross walk in ukraine, i'm joined by my guess, am proud in london. he is a senior british diplomat and author of

a myspace in moscow. how british diplomacy and russian failed in providence. we have let him have goldstein. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university. and here in moscow we have pepe escobar. he is a geopolitical analyst and author, hardship named cross lock roll is in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate and i'm just good to go straight to the point. does the trumpet ministration? have any idea on how to approach the goal that the new president has of ending the conflict and ukraine. go for it. like a moving idea of the previous administration, which had no idea to a thing, they have a desire to do. let's see if i can get them assigned to page and the soon as possible. the challenge will be to get so that gets to okay, but vladimir the way i've seen people talking about it within the administration and in the trans atlantic world in general. and they're actually talking to themselves remarkably, they're not talking to the russians yet, but they're actually thinking more along the lines of a minsk agreement,

which is an absolutely non starter leaving the because the minced agreements weren't fulfilled is one of the reasons why we're here today. vladimir yeah, i have the feeling read uh isn't bought are these is a for ross of this issue over actually and you great. and it gets not that high on, on drums agenda. so he is so, you know, pursuing other issues. and consequently, i don't think you get time and he kind of opportunity to see all sides of the issue. so he'll, of course brag that he's going to solve is going to make people talk. but you know, cool, he's got notice in the door i would have to wait till, you know, say me to industrial complex. can it say to other people say because you know, we've gone from vans refund from us before, from other people. and they say it would have to resolve it, but how it is over at united states, obviously as so i'm glad america 1st. they want to preserve interest. if somebody

is going to use administration means assume that us still continue to make money or at least conflict, you know, it will go on because i don't think there is in this because you know what, you in the united states, the only thing they stand to benefit from it is may be in the future forge and some kind of russian american alliance versus dr. if that's kind of his interest and he's going to be in, is, was doing it, then maybe he'll pursue doing it. but for the idea that i don't, he, i don't see any kind of the goal. clear thing. and just to say, let's solve it just to show it to his voters. look, i didn't invalid, we pursue my other agenda. that's i think you're what, yeah, well, what the vladimir, everything you just said might be nice and fine, but it has nothing to do with you. crane. i guess that's the problem here. you know, pepe donald trump likes to say that he doesn't want to start wars. okay. during his 1st administration, i think we could say that that was true. he didn't really and many things,

but now he's president again and he says he's against the war and, and maybe he wants to end this conflict, a new crane, but he's not going to was solve the, the, the root issues of why these conflicts come about. we can talk about ukraine, we can talk about the ongoing genocide in gaza. i mean, the problem, i guess, from the, from russia's perspective is that they want to end fighting, but they don't want to have peace. there is a difference there, pepe. well, the russian reaction so far has been fascinating to watch, which means uh, no reaction at all. they're just waiting for the moment. there is this disco inferno, as i call a note in my late to assess what they call them on the other side. lots of bombast, lots of sound and fury, without even trying to call pest golf to set up a phone call between through a trump and putting nothing in ever seeing that was leaked across

the beltway and from wash them. and some people's back by the trump administration . itself from 2 points that are itself points to a missed 3. obviously this is not going to work. so the russian poses a put things position. so okay, we are open for meaningful discussions. even the 1st phone call and even if there is a meeting in the 1st 90 days or so, it's not gonna be meaningful. it's gonna be a fantastic spectacle for the cameras. coming as click on everywhere. ahead bombastic headlines are blue apps, but no substance. well, in your, you know, you have a experience in this field here. i mean, what is this about the phone call? when setting up a meeting? i mean, at least in the old days when you, when greg leaders met they, they signed things. they had already agreed to some things, so i'm kind of agreeing with pepe here. i mean, i can see the,

the public relations side benefits without any substance. it's going to hurt both fulton and trump. go ahead. i mean something page. and obviously you need to talk to when that schedule and how that happens isn't another matter, but that's the key 1st step in a agreement taking place. i just wanted to say on the main ski agreement, actually the 1st, the 2nd mr. graham is one bad. they fail because us and the british wanted them to fail. and because the, the crating is i should kill to just full broadcast in february 2022. so the agreements themselves weren't actually bad is just, we invested in that site and therefore they failed. but anyway, i'll leave you that, but i mean, well, no, no, well, since you mentioned it that way, i appreciate it. i mean they failed because they, they were supposed to fail. so why would moscow trust the interlocutors from the west that would even be remotely suggesting something of the same? what the problem here gentlemen, is the lack of trust in exactly is an absolute lack of trust and that like who just

doesn't day banks. 2022 is actually but days back to 2014 and beyond say so the causes a senior thinking and the lesson presidential administration told me event that in 2014, to take a decade at least, to start to build some trust that's now going to be 2 decades, so there's no trust, but the, you know, conversations is a 1st step and actually starting slowly to rebuild that trust. well, i mean with vladimir, i mean, you know, you, you, you said in your 1st answer that it's not really a top priority for, for the trump administration. well, what accounts for his, it were, the russian economy is failing with the russians have a 1000000 casualties. where is this coming from? i mean, is he just shooting from the hip? is this what his intelligence people are telling him? i mean it's, i can tell you most people that know what's going on with uh, with this crisis. got this kind of lapse out their sleeves. i mean, why is he saying this is part of the negotiating gamut vladimir?

yeah, i don't think he is of he that you're aware of that. i know what was the root of the problem. that is, you know, brody, he's fred, this information because they still talk about something image, but i'm going to do almost the 20th century. and it is, you know, so i'm sure i understand it, but we'll have to leave minutes or i should the export oil and things of that nature. while they are heated. i didn't hear my address and the fundamental issue that need to on the russian borders is, is a special threat. they understand when it gets a little fed, such as such as duration is, is especially for that. but one of the 5 they don't understand is it's in case the rest of this is disease issue. first of all, they say no more. so that's normal nato. we're basically are going into a regional ideas on age or we have to stay around germany sofa within the he is. so the dole i going to do so i'm she has been greater than any other sanctions. it is a sign that they don't understand what extra hopes of all things to begin. it's

plus, there's no real job. i'll send over a new dean towards the end of this. you know, a bonus is oh or you great and it's got a new and lots of policies been, is awesome language barrier. i some culture, you know, mistreating. it'd be about this a to so point a j existing shows that i have to russia and you know, they have to, they have neighbors, the friends, that brothers an extra knob like they, they were born, they get not just this unacceptable. i don't think she's so far addressed that i went to the, you know, me, is a landscape and body and talk about what about what that's the problem is, you know, pepe. you're a frequent visitor to moscow. um and you know, sanctions is always 112 on the tool box for the american administration. you'd be inviting or trump, how are you when you visit moscow? how do you see sanctions impacting the country? there is no impact in dispatch 2 years. i spent almost 6 months,

both years in moscow and traveling around flatly, vall still cars on st. petersburg thought you, et cetera. you'll see minor inconveniences, but you don't see the practical effect of sanctions. first of all, and ever seen that is being fed to trump. so far in this, let's say the 1st 10 days or so is being fed by the c. i a and it's completely absurd in terms of the dreadful state of the russian economy, unemployment, they have no money on the demo. they're gonna sell their energy and said this is ridiculous, it is the opposite of what we see when we are here effect. so trump is positioning himself in a way so far, it looks like he's positioning himself to a known dialogue or a dialogue that will go nowhere. and then that can be blamed on polluting and russia. this is unfair, it's very, it's straightforward negotiating tactic,

but it's not going to work as well because it's up to then the minister of foreign affairs in russia and to putting themselves to tell, look, he doesn't want to talk about the substance. because for instance, he doesn't even understand the meaning of in the visibility of security. so we have to go back to late 2019, those same, those letters that was sent to the previous administration. they didn't respond. and this was a proposal for a serious dialogue ending ukraine loss and is included in this big discussion about indivisibility, all security, europe and the both soviet space. nobody in trump circle apparently mentioned that to him. well, in, again being the diplomat. it seems that the, you know, this core issue of security which i want to talk about in the 2nd part of the program, is largely absent from the conversation. and before we go to the brake, flush on the back, she has a recognize the nature membership is a, is

a big strategic issue for russia. i'm think you sent to that, that should be taken off the table. i've been playing for a long time to that has to be taken off the table for a piece, talks to me fold that, paste me by far, the biggest stumbling blocks. look forward to getting into that discussion embody. so this is really interesting because i can appreciate the trump wanting to end the conflict. but the problem is that he's not addressing the root causes of how it came about. and this is, you know, something, you know, the cold war was never resolved satisfactorily. it should have been and we're living with the consequences of that today. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine and stay with our team. the take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions.

fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images present? it is, but can you see through their illusion going underground can because i don't want synopsis of i'm interested in lots of family. this for gabriel boy, subspace issue i have, i see for the se, average, under the guise of evacuation about 50000 people were transported. the, the main purpose of this concentration camp in bella rows was to in think, prisoners was times us and use them as a human shield against the advancing savvy at, on a given mind. to go home to those but feelings and

slipped into phone. you put them in the, in the plugin for the ship, the ship and stuff like that, but don't want to bring your name. you know, i'm so sorry i missed because that your certificate seems to put your salary. and as a test you've been on, sees use people as biological weapons leading them to perish without food. most the most shelter, the door of small it there for me. if i did think so, could i think it was i know usually you smoke through. can you put the infinity collision weight in there should have just put in each each additional relationship for density? move the cam gloucester 10 days, or what else made it drastically defense from of accounts of the 3rd rice watch on t. the welcome back to cross software. all things are considered non peter roosevelt's remind you. we're discussing the ukraine situation. the

well is it often is during the break, some of the most important things are said, so i'm going to return to them for the broadcast here. and let me go back to you here. i mean, why should trump and this war? i mean, lot of people are profiting from it. the european slavish, they do what they are told. um, uh, the americans will sell them really high energy. i mean, if it's not broken, why fix it? i mean, that's what the syndic would say. and i think that's a sentiment that you can find in some western capitals in a fully installed the full keep paying. so when the americans don't want to keep paying for the war, and i see, you know, ukraine is getting elated with the site economy to go on financially beyond does she have any way? so you know, people need find enough plan, but i think that's why we all today. okay, well, i mean a lot of mirror um is a lot of people call this a, a griff tier. i mean, that's one of the reasons many would say is that zelinski is going to fight to the

last ukranian because it's a good business model for him and is his leads and policies being encouraged by so many people. it's still very bi partisan in the west side, you know, on this for the library and critics on all the time because they're willing to talk about it. but it still has not made an impact on many of the leads and the west. russia can't win. that's the mantra. go ahead vladimir. that's absolutely true. and i think there is a division. and the reason is really simple. common people are not very happy about it because you know, it's been inflation and other things. but ah, all this kind of leads in a chapter in glosses apology. sions, they are making money of that and you use a blaze. of course it can you great animal mo, most diet your under because got com and people that die in throes and rudy interactions as well. but basically what, what, what happens as far as the lead settings, an insane broken. let's not fix it because the money is coming as they are. i the

course of like way of helping the underdog and the laser, the has to pay for that with that money with their lives, with that kind of unions as and so i on to. but what is it just, it was, but it was especially in europe, but they do it any body. you know, the united states is different from manage. so the somehow to, to get to go and win. but in europe beat france, be germany. anybody cause as we have to stop it is the feasible outcome and people are suffering. inflation is, you know, be a about the rules. they tried to lead deal to do demise this by just so i'm totally, georgia's are ones that they do legitimize and so on. so about a stablish when i'd gotten hold for the war. yeah, well, the discounts a little less than like in romania, another great democratic experiment in the hearts of europe. it's, it's, it's the same for pepe. there's one thing that is obvious that we always,

we should be aware of should tell our viewers, is it escalation is always an option. it's always an option. ok? because that's how some people interpret this. trump is threatening, but if it doesn't come to the table, then you'll get my rap. it's always there. escalation is always a possibility. go ahead. pepsi or an escalation will be discussed by the way, uh, early next week in brussels. by may till you tell a soul of notables, all of them, all the $27.00 will be there, and they will be talking about the armament they will be talking about continue, and as far as, as long as they kept with the money they, they don't have by the weight and with the fame was 5 percent that was imposed by trump and always being posed by duty for rudy. the nato secretary general, that that's thing. and it's, it's beyond the, as a said, it's beyond a joke and they are inflicted on themselves and they want to keep, go,

we with this war even if they can not do it from the point of view of the investor, many to complex is us as a complete a different proposition because they're making a lot of money out of it. so this good from their point of view and the fact that the americans are not direct me. both american troops and my lives on direct and vote is perfect is slabs keeling slabs and until the last ukraine. so there are a lot of hidden interest to one throws atlantic interest. so of course, the one that the war to, to go on trump is he sees a war purely on a cost benefit basis. no, i don't want to pay for it. no, i have better things to do. and better things to do is fact war with china and the war that he's going to launch against many of the bricks countries. in fact, theories everywhere is going to be a battery. so now i mean all over the place, this is what his thinking about not ukraine. yeah, well, you know, it's a drum. so we're on the global south when it comes to sanctions. and tariffs is

only going to be a win for russian china. it's really strongly, strongly help myopic. these people are in washington. and again, being a diplomat and knowing diplomatic history, why can't we have a you all to a 2 point? oh, i mean, big picture stuff, you know, another helsinki, the process um, you know, have a resolution to helsinki process, resolve the issues of the 2nd world war. we need another one to codified the end of the cold war in the new realities. big picture, it doesn't have to be about ukraine. it can be about everything about security for all that would work, but there is no political will for it in well, are you in, joshua is still a good document. it's just that we've kind of cost that aside as well as imposes this notion of a little space international. and so news is a dk divide existing goals and increases non k to flights of the rules are new. they can apply new to, to countries with a name, you know,

they disagree. so another conference i mean, really works is for every parties of mine to type on an equal basis until that happens. you know, if it's only going to be less than dominated kind of form, most likely it can adverse lead skis, you know, piece some, it's last year to which, you know, much of wasn't invited and most people didn't attend the knots. nobody going to be the on, so i that was, well, obviously, but, you know, when you think of the nato, after the end of the cold war it's, it's, uh, architecture was designed to against, in, with and without russia. when i was thinking about a yell to 2 point, oh, which would reconsider that. i mean, nato is the problem here. it's not the solution, but there is no problem. there is no willingness to recognize that the russian side of said over and over and over again for, for it since the end of the cold war, nato expansion is something that we will not accept. and they said finally, we don't accept that we have ukraine. so, i mean,

let me throw this the bottom here right now. if we have bigger thinking, it can solve smaller problems. vladimir as well, what ice observe extra data is bridget disturbing beecher, despite all the internet, despite all this flow of information, most of the people in the europe, in particular punch in united states as well. they actually came in the dark about russia. what does it have some concerns, but they don't exist. the only thing they hear is unbearable and just apply a book and vision and the he the day and they out, you know, i travel a lot and you know, i was, i'm, you know, i like, you know, to check what's going on with that g with it'd be the be the way i was a show i getting that which is in france, you know, there is a, sorry, you know, i see it as easy. so basically, you know, it may, i'm sure this people, if they what 25 those already. and then know they might find something but ever age in a world in the indian country, france, spain, both the germany,

they don't hear much. so causing lindsey. it's not that you know, they do not have to have meaningful negotiations. me and i've also the resolution. you'll have to understand where each side is coming from. they don't know where the russians are coming from. the only thing they hear is big bed, uh voyages and the bed, the dresser doing the usual thing in reading it. the other drugs as that's what they hear, and i don't know how to break some of those. you know, i imagine this, i'm, but it isn't for you that, but i will visit so far. it works for them to continue as the population is out because a this population keeps them in their places. and so it's, it's a bit sedation. yeah. but pepe, you're a man that is very knowledgable and you're actually a hero in the global south. i know that for a fact in the global south, everybody knows pepe escobar bikes. it, it's all b as here. but there's a vast majority of the world. that's where the growth in the future is going to be . what did they think of all of this? i'm just supposing it from what vladimir just said about western audiences and

publics. is sacrifice the senior this past few months? i was in meetings stuff, mostly in france, and that is absolutely correct. there is absolutely no space for russian concerns. the russian point of view is that the demonization company and russo phobia are of the charts all the time by the, especially by the all the go to school control the media. you know, these you, nations, across the board is a different story. what you hear, for instance, even in argentina, which is controlled by uh, that chain. so uh, the method, the chair of the, uh, people understand the russian position and this is discussed that you're not cut that mix or a causal force equal to 0. the same thing, the average brazilian has a soft spot for russia, and they try to understand russian motivations and even what caused the s m o in

the 1st place across 40. so se, asia, same thing, there's a lot of russia has a good political capital across amazon as well. and because of the efforts of russian diplomats dispatched to 3 years, especially as the most of us young understands that the worship position and no wonder that as the on is coming to bricks. now we have for as the power houses as breaks members, including name donasia, which is a full bricks member. there is no room. so phobia across the southeast asia, for instance, both china. of course, it's a chapter in itself because china, even though seizing being never approved, let's say a 100 percent d. s. m o. uh, there are efforts by chinese media, which as we know is heavily control to explain the russian position to the chinese public. and this is well understood all across china as well. so we see only what,

what i call natal stand this space, which is my are a little so folder. yeah. yeah. i and believing in their own propaganda and believing in your own propagate, okay. and we have one minute left here and you're the diplomats on the program. will diplomacy a b t to this new administration. and i'm not thinking of only about ukraine, but i'm thinking about a west asia or the middle east is diploma. so going to be a tool that's going to be deployed because the last administration didn't do it. go ahead. but it must be this been a complete deposit of the diplomatic space. i move in a decade sauce and we don't send the credit cards. it's not a 2014 tool, it's kind of increasing minutes wise. ation of you up and elsewhere. i have them, at least, as we've seen, we need to get back to the far more difficult task of actually talking to the people with whom you disagree that needs to play and seem to come by what the full phone for the 1st time and i but okay, all right gentlemen, absolutely. you know, blue ribbon panel, absolutely fabulous discussion. i want to thank you very much. i want to thank my

guess and providence london and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time remember, prospect roll. the the, [000:00:00;00] the in the year of 1954,

the united states of america engaged in warfare against the people of vietnam. the white house supported the corrupt above the governments of southern vietnam. 1965 americans began their invasion following the aim to defeat the forces of vietnamese patriots. defend the gun was confident that the victory would be on the american side, due to its military superiority. however, the enemies during this war into total hell for the occupants. unable to cope with the guerrillas, the american army started blanket bombing alongside using chemical weapons and naples, which burned all alive. the village of my lay, where he 1969 american soldiers killed 504 civilians, including 210 children, became a tragic symbol of this war. all and all. during the whole period of this conflict,

the usa dropped on vietnam more than $6000000.00 tons of bombs, which is 2 and a half times as much as on germany during the 2nd world war. in 1973, the american army under the pressure of the rebels, withdrew from vietnam, and only 2 years later did the pop and regime. and so i got involved. however, the vietnamese paid a high price for their freedom. more than 1000000 in vietnamese people became the victims of america in aggressors. a cold march 1944, a desk created on hitler's person older issues the typhus became a weapon for a mass murder. when

the can do to survive in an open, this one step is to get through. he said, you know, it was that the lives of what you see a little shallow show a feel like you feel a this, that i thought and then the full set of v as in the, leave me a release the ago from 1944. this photo was taken 75 years ago on the day the as out of the desk up was liberated. this is that a korean is about 5 in this picture. the exact date of birth is and she was born in 1959 or 1940 because the documents were destroyed. the rage was estimated by her