us and only escalated the affair. struggle of the indians for liberation from the colonial yoke. the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stop where all things are considered. and peter level, donald trump risk repeating joe biden's disasters in gaza. allowing genocide he returned to office claiming to be a peacemaker trumps of words and actions about gods that demonstrate the opposite. what donald trump does now will define his presidency and legacy,

the cross talking guys, i'm joined by my guess what i'm in mirandi until then. he's a professor at the university of the around in rome. we have romano roberto, she is an author and the managing editor of the palestine chronicle. and in toronto, we cross esteban carrillo lopez. he is a news desk editor at the cradle. all right, cross type roles and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated while i'm in monday and put in. what is trumps gambit here? because in all of us, obviously have made it a point in our lives to follow the tragedy that unfold. unfolded in palestine and you know, trump in, in a few days of his new presidency has, was, seamlessly adopted israel's policy of, of expulsion and ethnic cleansing seamlessly, all the 2 state solution stuff and all oswell and camp day, all of that stuff. it's gone. and to top it all off is

a recognition that there is no such thing as a palestinian. he's come so far to go so far backwards mohammed i personally and i may be wrong. i think that tom still wants to cease to hold and selfish interest. and so i'm guessing and i may be completely wrong that uh, there's rarely rising. we'll have to make concessions from it and move away from its maximum of this approach. and the 2nd phase will probably go ahead, but whether that's correct or not, uh, trump has done a huge damage to the united states. by taking this position. he's gained the patriot people across the region and beyond. because of policy, an issue is not an issue for us or for muslims. it is

a humanitarian issue. and we've seen people from across the girl, lo, a support from east asia to, to west asia, north africa, south africa, north america, south of america. this is a global issue now and for him to support is randy region, which is out this genocide has only harmed the united states and its allies. and i think this is something that the underestimate. yeah. the in the regions that you know what i was gonna add onto what i am agreeing with you completely is that it shows that the, the west this take, uh, revealed itself. the mask is off there we are, the, the, the west. they showing that it is a supporter of ethnic cleansing, of neil imperialism, neo colonialism. the if he shows it better for what it is, because even though the europeans protests there will be, clutch their pearls,

but they don't do anything about it. let's go to ramana and in rome, you know, you know, war ethnic cleansing and annexation is been the result of the zine, this project against the palestinians in palestine. but now it's being proposed as the solution. again, it's been, everything is been flipped and we can just move these people um, expel them, then it will be, uh, what is this someone call it god. so largo i mean this it's, it would be funny if it wasn't so cringe. go ahead in room. yes, 1st of all, we have to admit that this was the very intense and i mean, trump is know what the lead speaking about it. but the intention was indifferent in the budget ministration. when they dropped all of these weapons to israel, when they gave green light and you know to everything, when you're not in close, we close doors. they were saying, please get rid of him off,

which actually means please get to read the post to people. these is exactly what they were referring to. they wanted the ethnic cleansing, and even in terms of close circle with mariam edge or some for example, who do need an insane amount of money to chance campaign is talking about to fire. of course she doesn't have in mind just the piece for posting is what she has in mind is sheep focus, recovered the bethany of the hostages, and then shift focus, and ethnic cleans uh, you know, to proceed with the ethnic, cleansing, of god, the impulse to be the west bank, which is the records of the federalist colonial movement that she represents. but i want to say something about, i mean, whoever, whomever thinks that the splint is feasible, either lying or is completely ignorant of history and geography. because, i mean, in 1948, we have seen hundreds of thousands of posting is moving to our countries and we know that, you know,

our and countries are still dealing with that refugee crisis. how can we think that be split is feasible? the 1st of all, from a practical point of view. so they go to gaza, and mandatory take posting is one by one because the posting of people have demonstrated that they have no intention of leading casa, and that their resistance has been strong and proud throughout the genocide. so this is the 1st thing, and even in the case of this scenario is implementable, then arab countries top made a mirror, a cool, i mean, for 16 months of countries, a sunni art countries where shamefully assignment to the genocide and keep, you know, just meet this miracle they actually are standing out. now of course we cannot be surprised when the king of jordan doing the press conference, which seemed more like a truck then press conference, said talked about chief national interests. he is right. he is thinking about

you've national interest. you cannot accept a large amount of boasting, is because he knows the it to be to dest, heavy lising for his country. and even the same time, he cannot allow from to cross a certain threshold because that policy new cause is too important for his own people to yeah, well they, they the, the, in the, the press uh, the conferences you're talking about no, go to s about now in toronto that look more like a hostage video to me than anything else. it was really painful to watch here. but i mean, the s about me is this madman theory. i as tom saying, i have an idea is if it says, oh no idea, this is when do it's going on, since it leaves least 1948 even decades before expulsions. but is it, you know, come up with a better idea? give me a better idea, is this is tactic, is this, this negotiation approach? go ahead in toronto. well, i don't know. i would call it a negotiation. the seems more like black milan course or any particular with the

are of states right? with jordan, with egypt, his long time allies, and the warning to the others, right? especially to those who have normalized with these are all in the one to normalize with these are all like saudi arabia, by telling them what we are waiting to do with our allies. i think a by trump, this is the 2nd certainly not easy is going to be his last term. you know, if he's on less, there's a big change the constitution of the coming down the line here, which i feel like at this point. we cannot do anything else, but the decisions going to be his last time, you know, if his and i feel like he's approaching it that way, right. he wants to reshape not just the day that he wants to, to, to both the united states in a different role. right. i think we saw that we medical reviews, stating data. these is no longer a uni butler world order. and you know, we're not going to be able to sanction the countries in 5 years. it seems like there's a lot of, of, of, of, of understanding in the term white house where, you know, a, the, the global border stands now. yeah. but the, i think there's something to what you're saying and i and,

and some of that i agree with. i mean, the greenland thing, the canada thing, the panama, i get, i get the, i get that and we, and a way it's like the building or it's like it's like building fortress america, right? but then i'm gonna throw now back to my home in here. but they're still the as is real exception it see that's what makes it so illogical. go ahead mohammed. but that's exactly why i think fall is a good thing for the world because and we've had this discussion during his 1st term multiple times on your show. tom shows the video base of the united states. the see, for example, of biden and obama is gone, as your guess, rightly pointed out, these policies of ethnic cleansing were being pursued under biden as well. uh and right now, so here because it's so different, critical watching items of borders, jonathan outrage are you are showing an outrage of what trump statements when they

were assisting with this god, this holocaust and god. so it says if removing the palestinians has outrages by killing them where they are as all as fine. so in a sense, i find this, this whole narrative refreshing because it exposes the united and by the way, puts a lot of pressure on the port pro western and pull american cap and the region. because these dictators, whether it's in jordan or egypt or even turkey or add on is continuing to sell it as oil to and so ok who cheat box a while to a nothing yahoo, all of them are put on a under greater pressure when the united states speaks like this when the president speaks like this, but personally, i do agree that i think there's really regime is an exception. we know the reason why the powerful design this lobby in the united states is behind it. but in general, i think that actually this whole,

this talk of greenland in canada and the panama canal is, is an attempt to create a dignified retreat for the united states. yeah, the united states can sort of back off and ukraine and bad cough and other places back down in other areas, but show itself to be stronger. the only problem in my home is going after people that can't defend themselves. yeah. what, what is green when gonna say no? i me for, oh, yeah, germany might send troops, the u. k. may send troops there. and so what, okay, i would be the one thing that us about brought up, i think, is really important. before we go to the break, here a trump is an egomaniac, he's thinking very, very much about his legacy and how he wants to be seen. he wants to be put on mount rushmore. that is his goal. he wants to a peace prize because obama got one. and so i think that there is an enormous amount of overreach here,

and we'll get to see it over the next few days. you think that the the ceasefire will continue, even if it does, they're still the 3rd part and that's what we're going to talk about when we come back from the break. we had to go to that break, and after that break, we'll continue our discussion. my goal is to stay with our, to the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about visual intelligence. and the point obviously is to place a trust rather than fit the various jobs. i mean with the artificial intelligence we have summoning the theme in the a robot must protect this phone. existence was alexis

the 1st few months ago. remember cafe in us mission that as ma'am, there's just some of the similar pollution studios you're seeing and i guess the rest of the federalist are so used to not so full chance, or she thought she needs to be closer to, to be in charge. that those, the high pon, comfortable with the system that some of those, since at what time, what time the fax is gonna get you into the system. and then she to the size of the site, just as quick as you need any additional forms that i sent to us. we'll probably just solving this also. so who's on the timble angle the,

the us or what the used to to what i say that it's available for most of them, which is 2 days and then we will dismiss to new stuff to them. so who lives in judas, kansas job that i see 2 guys to do some 1st of with that, what's more is the child support the national just the risk of, of getting single machine. yeah. the the, the welcome back across stuff were all things are considered. i'm peter real about your mind. you were discussing godsa

the ok, let's go to another in rome. it's already been mentioned here, the normalization of relations between saudi arabia and israel. they. the abraham process is it's called here, but there, there is a different normalization going on. and this is what trump is done. he's normalized ethnic cleansing, okay. it's that, you know, it has to be done. it just how it's done. that's the discourse is changed in that direction, but it's very, very dangerous. and because there is, so you have a, a extremely right wing government under nets. and, you know, in israel, they're just tearing it on. and again, you know, maybe this is my inter for today. so will i have to admit to all of you. i've talked to a lot of people since last tuesday and there are a lot of different interpretations of what's going on here. but it is a donald trump, again in the united states is taking on all of the risk because it'd be,

the americans insist that it must be cleaned out. and these rates of say, well, you know, that's what the americans want to do. i mean, it's passing the risk. go ahead and room. yes, i do not know exactly what trump had in mind. i have to say that the character is unpredictable, especially when it comes to foreign policy. but you know, doing that seems press conference on february 4th. so to be shocked, even nissan health seemed very shocked. honestly, it seemed that she was caught by surprise. but the announcement and the, the 2 risk that i see in the plan that's trump enunciated, is more in the way it can be absorbed by these right. politics i treat, i think that for example, it anyhow, which doesn't necessarily would benefit from discipline any way. because even the effect of fading, the united states, we take ownership of golf. they're not saying is, well it's, we'll take ownership of government. they're saying this is an american issue, this is a washington issue. so i do not think that even on the ground for me is,

well, these actually enables was made and how has in mind. but in the same time, it's on how immediately took advantage and tried to get these lifeline for his going pretty good interest for, for example, to regroup his extreme government. so now been year for example, didn't stop screaming since february 4th, believe implemented the plan. i would like to tell them you're, the problem is not that they didn't try already to se can be cleaned guides or they have been trying for 16 months. the problem for you is that they didn't manage, they didn't succeed in best plan. but in the meantime, you know, nathan held could take the end of the through his government in these words and other political groups he needs what? because don't forget that actually basically or main political parties, the news was totally agree on the i think lindsey of palestinians as

a solution to the problem. so when we talk about extremism in these words, it's really very complicated and very complicated. a ground. yeah, well i, as i say i, it gets a very narrow overton window. okay, exactly. okay. as about, and i mean, they were coming up uh this saturday about, uh, 3 hostages or hostages or all the hostages. they, you know, there's so many different takes, or you can interpret the way. what do you think they will go into the 2nd part of the ceasefire? because it seems like israel has, we've all, i think all of us with our agreement, they never were on board for this. it was public political expedients at the time. i trump wanted it. he got, you know, he got the glory for it. the after glow is almost gone, but i don't see why is real would do it. um, um they're looking at their costs, which is they never talk about the palestinian hostages that are being held in jails in israel. is there a chance that this could be extended? i say i do believe there is a chance a i'm not sure if it's uh the how big

a by chance is there he is. right? because there is these uh theres for a lot there is for warm or into into is really government. it is really as a 0 guess as it is really population itself. right? uh they, they got the problem is not going to be resolved by allowing them to reveal this is the way that they see it, right? especially when you see e mail just of cassandra yates, we arm you, we these right new weapons, a setting up display, just setting up these a these, these are small parades, right? to showcase the 1st of all the hostages in the copy was really in english. i have barely been mistreated, the 2nd of all, but they're still in control, right? that they're literally coming out of the trenches and saying, look, you committed genocide on those for 15 months. you slap and that's up and yet here we are. here we are still, and this is a reminder that these ready is that he's real and they're not as bates do not like to see, right, because it goes against everything that they have done and everything that they stand for and everything that they say. and now i don't know it's wrong that these idea to ethnically cleansed a guy,

so he's going to be sending us troops and band and very likely he's not going to be uh, he's not gonna be ready troops doing it right. we already seen that, is there any troops? thank you. a lot of cbs, but they're not very successful at actually, you know, and removing people from uh, from uh where their homes are. and so what are we talking about here? i think at the end of the day here, they're probably going to consider private military contracts. right. uh, mercenary companies like those that have already been putting in beats to come in and brought the humanitarian songs inside of the gaza strip. so at the end of the day, what we're seeing today is really the depth of international law, the author of us. amazing. this is what the united states end of trump presidency and divided presidency as well. i'll tell you now, would that be more of a saw? what's doing? you know, you know, mohammed the, i think it as the bottom put it really just perfectly. this is the internet end of international law, international human and humanitarian law. and it's, it's really pathetic about it is these were i is, they came out of the west and now the west has rejected them. there's always an

exception. okay. it shows the west and its true light. i mean how, what, what will happen during the 2nd stage here, i mean, there still captives in israel is nothing. yeah. who going to, he's a, he does, he's never seem to have shown that have much interest in their fate. it's only because of the prodding of a people like donald trump and his donors go ahead mohammed again, i think that it is in trump's interest for the 2nd phase to move forward. but regardless of what happens when from, as you alluded to the, the 3rd phase when he rejected the 3rd phase a few days ago. basically what he did was that he undermine the united states as a negotiator. so for example, right now the united states wants to negotiate with you've drawn it yet. but when

the writing and see that united states as the guarantor of the ceasefire in gaza is now saying we don't want the 3rd phase. that means you cannot trust united states, you cannot trust any deal that it proposes. and the same is remember not if it is rainy. regime violates seized by a day night. murder is innocent people and the united states as a guarantor or the ceasefire, does nothing in that means. basically you cannot trust the united states. and even though i do not believe in the rules base order for the very reason that you pointed out, that it was designed by the west and it serves their interest and they constantly buy and they did it because they saw themselves as exceptional. but in my opinion, it was in their interest and undermining this order. actually, while it is, it could increase great hardship in the west becomes more brutal and in and it shows it as a matter of immortality. but i think the collapse of this order is in the long run,

a good thing, because it breaks the chains that the americans and the europeans have created for the rest of the world and there, but it can no longer behaving an exceptional manner. the rest of the world no longer sees itself for themselves as a restrained by this order which benefits the west. so in my opinion, in the long run, by, by violating the deal, by dismissing the 3rd phase by violating the rules base order, what truck and the united states are doing, or by tearing up the rules base order is that they are further undermining the position of the united states, even though in its short term being made, he or the united states may think that it benefit. so you know, it's very interesting. remember last week on this program to my head to my got guests and i think um,

i saw the future of this movement because they were deeply divided on trumps policy . when it comes to the guys that i knew it was going to happen when you don't have power, you can say all kinds of things. but now trump is in office, and his movement is getting more and more divided over this. there's a part of his movement is just as appalled as we are and there, you know, it's a lot like, you know, a steel tear up should be 17 percent or 25 percent. we're not talking about tariffs, we're talking about genocide and more and more people are beginning to realize that which side of history do you want to be on? and it's, it's good to divide his movement. that's why i said in my introduction, this is going to be determine his legacy. go head and room to. yes, absolutely. and i mean, some doesn't act in a vacuum. of course, you have a lot of influences. for example, last week there was a, in a letter from is where you revise standing him,

that she was the messenger for of good against evil. so of course, he's acting in these also in his own circle, which is, you know, filled with extreme as design. if and cetera of colonial and people who do not accept that the word is indeed changing. and i fully agree with the fact that the legitimacy of the west is, you know, shaking. and this is something that they cannot deny that they cannot be. they can no longer deny and you know, even the, the ease work itself, like the consequences of what happened in gaza. i think we will see them in the long run. israel has lost a detour, is misery deterrence in the region and in gaza itself. and this is something that, you know, in the long run, we will see the consequences. but now they are particularly eager to show that they are still in control of that, you know, there was to some degree of power. and these of course will be

a stage in this process that it would be particularly atrocious for publishing and, and the policy on population. but it is undeniable that what's happening, garza, what's happened, you never know what happened with you run to the have to end and you said we have to deal with that. as of all, we have 40 seconds left, finish it off for us. you know, i just want to to, to follow by. 2 reminding people that there's organizations at this point that are moving forward with uh, with the lawsuit. seconds is really war criminals, you know, like the cambridge out from nation or even day, the south africa's case against the agency. the international criminal court in which is going to open up, i need all names for these are all to be accountable for his really needs to be accountable and why don't wanna pop eventually even you ends leaders to be accountable for what they have allows to happen. and are going, we need to continue to allowed to happen in ga. so, you know, joe might and normalize genocide thrown out thrown because if it's normalizing ebony glancing, what's next? right. where does the buck stop and where does the international community finally say enough?

is enough, we're seeing a few as the, the tragic thing is that the people of palestine are being monitored to create a better world. that's a really hard thing to think about. that's all the time we have fascinating discussion. i want to think, my guess in room toronto and into the end. and of course i want to thank our viewers are watching us here in our tea. so you next time, remember, prospect rules, the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants

a better wills. and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st? can you see through their illusions, going underground? can the boiler, some remodeling feet suddenly less costly or more in the homely? she's each screw when comfortable we'll just didn't. i didn't know it sits on us. what is the for supposed to do? it was still on the ocean where y'all are still well that you think your sewage, the right they're going to deduct months. you said live in years. the one the telling me is that of course go mama. that to me, answer those videos the

the slow down most of which was buried without any owners. but in march, 2006, tens of thousands of ordinary sobs came to pay their respects, the house and the funeral. it became known that 2 days before his death, milosevic had managed to write and send a letter addressed to the russians. russians by appeal to old russians, residents of ukraine and bill roost, as well as those in the balkans who consider themselves russian. look to us and remember, they'll do the same to you when you've this united to give into weakness. the west is a mad dog and change the 2 by 2 in the throat brothers. remember the fate of yugoslavia

don't let that happen to you. the trial of the last president of yugoslavia was just one of hundreds of the hague tribunal, initiated against nearly all prominent supporters of state unity during the civil war or with a crime is what coming on both sides. but strangely, the international tribunal. as prosecutors, only some of those responsible for mass killings and violence amongst it'd be a military and political fig goes. most agents are going to go for us that i don't know what the star key that the built to coming up. we will always as well as those while i mention out on the side, it's that cause a lot of mention about it. that's like the ones that they didn't mention out on the site. and that's what they still keep. the sits exhibit people key to the set up quickmobile with a set of people to get not, i don't know what's going on, but a good one is clear, the serial the way it will be with this little bit funny. so what else would it be? so i'm excited to be able take on a little i don't let me go any of the lotto in 1996 and they tow demanded said the