the, the hello and welcome to cross stop where all things are considered. and peter level, donald trump risk repeating joe biden's disasters and gaza allowing genocide he returned to office claiming to be a peacemaker trumps of words and actions about gods that demonstrate the opposite. what donald trump does now will define his presidency and legacy, the cross talking guys, i'm joined by my guess what i'm in mirandi until then. he's a professor at the university of thrown in rome. we have romano roberto, she is an author and the managing editor of the palestine chronicle. and in toronto, we cross it as the bottom coded lo lopez. he is

a news desk editor at the cradle. all right, comstock rose in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciated well how much brandy and towed in what is trump's gambit here? because in all of us, obviously have made it a point in our lives to follow the tragedy that unfold unfolded in palestine. and, you know, trump, in, in a few days of his new presidency, has, was, seamlessly adopted israel's policy of, of expulsion and ethnic cleansing seamlessly, all the 2 state solution stuff and all oswell and cam day. all that stuff, it's gone. and to top it all off is a recognition that there is no such thing as a palestinian. he's come so far to go so far backwards mohammed personally and i may be wrong. i think that trump still wants to see if i have to hold and the selfish interest. and so i'm guessing,

and i may be completely wrong that this vending machine will have to make concessions from its and move away from its maximum of this approach. and the 2nd phase will probably go ahead, but whether that's correct or not, a trump has done a huge damage to the united states by pacing this position. he's gain the patriot people across the region and beyond. because of policy, an issue is not an issue for us or for muslims. it is a humanitarian issue. and we've seen people from across the growth low support from east asia to west asia, north africa, south africa, north america, south america. this is a global issue. now and for him to support is randy region,

which is carried out this genocide has only harmed the united states and its allies . and i think this is something that the underestimate. yeah. the in the regions that, you know, what i was gonna add onto, uh, what i am agreeing with you completely is that it shows that the, the west is take, uh, revealed itself. the mask is off there we are, the, the, the west. they showing that it is a supporter of ethnic cleansing, of neo imperialism, neo colonialism. the if he shows it better for what it is, because even though the europeans protest, you know, they clutch their pearls, but they don't do anything about it. let's go to ramana and in rome, you know, you know, war ethnic cleansing and annexation is been the result of the zine, this project against the palestinians in palestine. but now it's being proposed as the solution. again,

it's bit everything is been flipped and we can just move these people expel them, then there will be a, what is this someone call it god. so largo i mean this it's, it would be funny if it wasn't so cringe. go ahead in room. yes. first of all, we have to admit that this was the very intense, and i mean, trump is know what the lead speaking about it. but the intention was indifferent in the budget ministration. when they dropped all of these weapons to israel, when they gave green light and you know to everything. when you know drills we close doors. they were saying, please get rid of him off, which actually means please get through the policy that people need is exactly what they were referring to. they wanted the ethnic cleansing, and even in terms of close circle with mariam edge or some for example, who do need an insane amount of money to trump campaign is talking about to fire.

of course, who doesn't have in mind just before posting is what she has in mind is sheep focused, recovered the bethany of the hostages, and then she focused and ethnic cleans uh, you know, to proceed with the ethnic, cleansing, of god, the impulse to be the west. bank, which is records of the federalist colonial movement that she represents. but i want to say something about, i mean, whoever, whomever thinks that the splint is feasible, either lying or is completely ignorant of history and geography. because, i mean, in 1948, we have seen hundreds of thousands of posting is moving to our countries and we know that, you know, our and countries are still dealing with that refugee crisis. how can we think that this plan is feasible? the 1st of all, from a practical point of view. so they go to gaza, and mandatory take posting is one by one because the posting of people have demonstrated that they have no intention of leading casa,

and that their resistance has been strong and proud throughout the genocide. so this is the 1st thing, and even in the case of this scenario, is implementable, then arab countries truck made a miracle. i mean, for 16 months of countries, a sunni art countries where shamefully assignment to all the genocide and keep, you know, just meet this miracle, they actually are standing up. now of course we cannot be surprised when the king of jordan during the press conference, which seemed more like a truck then press conference, said talked about chief national interests. he is right. he is thinking about you've national interests. you cannot accept the amount of posting use because he knows the it to be to discovery lising for his country and even the same time he cannot allow some to cross a certain threshold because that policy new cause is too important for his own people to yeah, well they, they the, the in the, the press uh,

the conferences you're talking about no, go to s about now in toronto that look more like a hostage video to me than anything else. it was really painful to watch here. but i mean the s about me is this madman theory. i is tom saying, i have an idea is if it says, oh, no idea, this is what new it's going on since it least least 1948 even decades before expulsions. but is it, you know, come up with a better idea? give me a better idea. is this is tactic. is this, this negotiation approach? go ahead in toronto. well, i don't know. i would call it a negotiation. the seems more like blackmail inquire, streaming particular with the are of states, right? with jordan, with egypt as long time allies in a bit of a warning to the others, right? especially to those who have normalized with these are all into one to normalize with these are all like saudi arabia by telling them what we are waiting to do with our allies. i think a by trump, this is the 2nd certainly not easy is going to be his last,

certainly not based on unless there's a big change to the constitution of the coming down the line here, which i feel like at this point. we cannot do anything else, but these things are going to be his last time. you know, if his and i feel like he is approaching it that way, right. he wants to reshape not just the day that he wants to, to, to both the united states in a different role. right. i think we saw that we medical reviews stating that this is no longer a uni butler world order. and you know, we're not going to be able to sanction the countries in 5 years. it seems like there's a lot of, of, of, of, of understanding in the term white house where, you know, a, the, the global quarter stands now. yeah. but in the savannah, i think there's something to what you're saying and i and, and some of that i agree with. i mean, the greenland thing, the canada thing, the panama, i get, i get the, i get that and we, and a way it's like the building or it's like it's like building fortress america, right? but then i'm gonna throw now back to my home in here. but they're still the as is real exception it see that's what makes it so illogical. go ahead mohammed. but

that's exactly why i think fall is a good thing for the world because and we've had this discussion during his 1st term multiple times on your show, trump shows the video pace of the united states. the see, for example, of biden and obama is gone, as your guess, rightly pointed out, these policies of ethnic cleansing were being pursued under biden as well. and right now, so here, because it's so different, critical watching items of borders. joe, anything outrage or you are showing an outrage of what trump statements when they were assisting with this god, this holocaust and god. so it says it removing the palestinians has outrages but killing them where they are as all is fine. so in a sense, i find this, this whole narrative refreshing because it exposes the united and by the way, puts

a lot of pressure on the pope pro western and pull american camp in the region. because these dictators, whether it's in jordan or egypt or even turkey, where ad on is continuing to sell it as oil to and so ok, who cheat box a while to and nothing yahoo, all of them are put on or under greater pressure when the united states speaks like this when the president speaks like this, but personally, i do agree that i think there's really regime is an exception. we know the reason why the powerful design this lobby in the united states is behind it. but in general, i think that actually this whole, this talk of greenland in canada and the panama canal is, is an attempt to create a dignified retreat for the united states. yeah, the united states can sort of back off and ukraine and bad cough and other places back down in other areas, but show itself to be stronger. the only problem in mohammed going after people

that can defend themselves a yeah, what, what is greenland gonna say? no, i me foot. oh yeah, germany might send troops, the u. k. may i send troops there? and so what? okay, i that would be the one thing that us about brought up, i think is really important before we go to the break. here to trump is an egomaniac. he's thinking very, very much about his legacy and how he wants to be seen. he wants to be put on mount rushmore. that is his goal. he wants to a peace prize because obama got one. and so i think that there is an enormous amount of overreach here, and we'll get to see it over the next few days. you think that the the ceasefire will continue, even if it does, there's still the 3rd part and that's what we're going to talk about when we come back from the break. we're to go to that break, and after that break, we'll continue our discussion. our goal is to stay with archie the

if you think about russia, what is your mind picture the landscape open up before your eyes? the last one does, can you imagine the the discount starts the journey? the, are you ready to come along the

the path to the establishment of the boxes resuming lisbon. in 1933, the position of the indigenous population in the portuguese colonies deteriorated dramatically. especially in angola, decatur antonio de, i live at salazar, encouraged colonizing the angolan lands by europeans, and sought after turning the country into a portuguese province. where the and goldens would be 2nd class people. in 1961, there was an outbreak of violence on the part of the portuguese,

in revenge for the plantation workers, dry portuguese aircraft bomb. the villages in northern angola and race riots took place in african parts of lawanda. the people of angola rose in an armed rebellion . the roots atlas of the colonialists knew no bounds. despite the un calls to stop the islands, the boards of use only intensified their care against the rebels. the 40s actively use the political contradictions between various groups of rebels during the war colonial aircraft. regularly use a farm and drop the fully ends on peaceful villages. the portuguese empire was severely exhausted by the struggle against the national liberation movements. the revolution in portugal brought down the plaza, is raising and put it in to the murder as war against the people of angola. on january 15, 1975, the elbow or agreements were assigned, and the country gained independence after so many years of the brutal war.

the welcome back. across stock were all things are considered on peter all about your mind. you were discussing godsa the ok, let's go to a lane room. it's already been mentioned here, the normalization of relations between saudi arabia and israel. the, the abraham process is it's called here, but there, there is a different normalization going on. and this is what trump is done. he's normalized ethnic cleansing. okay. it's that, you know, it has to be done. it's just how it's done. that's the discourse is changed in that direction, but it's very, very dangerous. and because there's a, you have a, a extremely right wing government under nets. and, you know, in israel, they're just tearing it on. and again, you know, maybe this is my interpretation,

and i have to admit to all of you, i've talked to a lot of people since last tuesday. and there are a lot of different interpretations of what's going on here. but it is a donald trump, again in the united states is taking on all of the risk because it'd be, the americans insist that it must be cleaned out. and these rates to say, well, you know, that's what the americans want to do. i mean, it's passing the risk. go ahead and room. yes i, i do not know exactly what trump had in mind. i have to say that the character is unpredictable, especially when it comes to foreign policy. uh, but you know, doing that seems press conference on february 4th. so to be shocked, even nathan health seemed very shocked. honestly, it seemed that she was caught by surprise by this announcement. and the, the to risk that i see in the plan that trump enunciated is more in the way it can be absorbed by these, why you parties i treat. i think that for example, it on how,

which doesn't necessarily, would benefit from discipline any way. because even the effect of fading, the united states, we take ownership of golf, they're not saying is, well it's, we'll take ownership, we'll go from there. thanks. this is an american issue. this is a washington issue. so i do not think that even on the ground for me is what these actually enables, what made and how has in mind. but in the same time it's on how immediately took advantage and try to get these lifeline for his own political interests. or for example, to regroup his extreme government. so now been near, for example, didn't stop screening since february 4th, please implement the plan. i would like to tell them here. the problem is not that they didn't try already to ethnically clean jobs or they have been trying for 16 months. the problem for you is that they didn't manage. they didn't succeed in best plan. but in the meantime, you know, nathan held could take this in the extreme,

is government in these words and other political groups he needs what? because don't forget that actually basically, or main political parties he needs was towed any, agree on the i think lindsey of publishing is as a solution to the problem. so when we talk about extremism in these, well, it's really very complicated and very complicated. a ground. yeah. well i, as i say, i think it's a very narrow over to the window. okay, exactly. okay. that's about, i mean, the, we're coming up this saturday about, uh, 3 hostages or hostages or all the hostages. they get it. there's so many different takes there. you can interpret the way what do you think they will go into the 2nd part of the ceasefire? because it seems like israel has, we've, i think all of us with our agreement, they never were on board for this. it was public political expedients at the time. a trump, one of that he got, you know, he got the glory for the after glow is almost gone. but i don't see why is real

would do it. i'm looking at the there are costs, which is they never talk about the palestinian hostages that are being held in jails in israel. is there a chance that this could be extended? i say i do believe there is a chance a i'm not sure if it's uh the how big a by chance is there is right because there is these. uh theres for a lot there is for warm or into into is really government in these really as uh, as i guess as it is really population itself. right. uh they, they got the problem is not going to be resolved by allowing them to reveal this is the way that they see it, right? especially when you see email just of cassandra yates, we arm you and we these right new weapons, a setting up display, just setting up these a these, these are small parades, right? to showcase the 1st of all the hostages in the copy was really in english. i have barely been mistreated, the 2nd of all, but they're still in control, right? that they're literally coming out of the trenches as saying, look, you committed genocide on those for 15 months, you slap and gossip,

and yet here we are. here we are still, and this is a reminder that these really uh, that these rel, ending not as dates do not like to see, right, because it goes against everything that they have done and everything that they stand for and everything that they say. and now i don't know it's wrong that these idea to ethnically cleanse the, gotta keep going to be sending us troops and band and very likely he's not going to be uh, he's not gonna be ready troops doing it right. we already seen that. he's ready, troops kill a lot of cbs, but they're not very successful at actually, you know, and removing people from uh, from uh where their homes are. and so what are we talking about here? i think at the end of the day he a, they're probably going to consider private military contractors, right. a mercenary companies like those that have already been putting in beats to come in and broaden the humanitarian songs inside of the gaza strip. so at the end of the day, what we're seeing today is really the depth of international law. and the author of us can be said, this is what the united states end of trump presidency and divided presidents as well. so, you know, would that be more of a saw was doing, you know, you know,

mohammed, the, i think it as the bottom put it really just perfectly. this is the internet end of international law, international human and humanitarian law. and it's, it's really pathetic about it is these were i is, they came out of the west and now the west has rejected them. there's always an exception. okay. it shows the west and its true light. i mean how, what, what will happen during the 2nd stage here, i mean, there still captives in israel is nothing. yeah. who going to, he's a, he does, he's never seem to have shown that have much interest in their fate. it's only because of the prodding of a people like donald trump and his donors go ahead mohammed again, i think that it is in trump's interest for the 2nd phase to move forward. but regardless of what happens when from, as you alluded to the, the, the 3rd phase when he rejected the 3rd phase

a few days ago. basically what he did was that he undermine the united states as a negotiator. so for example, right now the united states wants to negotiate with you've drawn it yet. but when the writing and see that united states as the guarantor of the ceasefire and gaza is now saying, we don't want the 3rd phase. that means you cannot trust the united states. you cannot trust any deal that it proposes. and the same is, remember not if it is rainy, regime violates the si, fi day night. murder is innocent, people and the united states as a guarantor or the ceasefire, does nothing in that means. basically you cannot trust the united states. and even though i do not believe in the rules base order for the very reason that you pointed out, that it was designed by the west and it serves their interest. and they constantly violated it because they saw themselves as exceptional. but in my opinion,

it was in their interests and undermining this order. actually, while it is it, it, it creates great hardship in the west becomes more brutal and him and it shows it as a mortality. but i think the collapse of this order is in the long run, a good thing, because it breaks the chains that the americans and the europeans have created from the rest of the world. and there they can no longer behaving an exceptional manner . the rest of the world no longer sees itself for themselves as a restrained by this order which benefits the west. so in my opinion, in the long run, by, by violating the deal, by dismissing the 3rd phase by violating the rules base order, what truck and the united states are doing, or by tearing up the rules base order is that they're further undermining the

position of the united states, even though in its short term being made, he or the united states may think that it benefit so you know, it's very interesting. remember last week on this program in my head to my good guests. and i think um, i saw the future of this movement because they were deeply divided on trumps policy . when it comes to the guys that i knew what was going to happen when you don't have power, you can say all kinds of things. but now trump is in office and his movement is getting more and more divided over the there's a part of his movement is just as appalled as we are. and there, you know, it's a lot like, you know, a steel tear up should be 17 percent or 25 percent. we're not talking about tariffs, we're talking about genocide and more, more people are beginning to realize that which side of history do you want to be on? and it's, it, it's going to divide his movement. that's why i said in my introduction, this is going to be determine his legacy. go heading room to yes,

absolutely. and i mean, some doesn't act in a vacuum. of course, you have a lot of influences. for example, last week there was a, in a letter from is where you revise telling him that she was the messenger for all good against evil. so, of course, he's acting in these also in his own circle, which is, you know, filled with extreme as design. if and cetera of colonial and people who do not accept that the word is indeed changing. and i fully agree with the fact that the legitimacy of the west is, you know, shaking. and this is something that they cannot deny that they cannot be. they can no longer deny and you know, even the, the east look itself, like the consequences of what happened in gaza. i think we would see them in the long run. israel has lost the deter, is misery deterrence,

in the region and in gaza itself. and this is something that, you know, in the long run, we will see the consequences. but now they are particularly eager to show that they are still in control. that, you know, there was to some degree of power. and these of course will be a state in this process that it would be particularly atrocious for publishing and, and the policy on population. but it is undeniable that what's happening, garza, what's happened, you never know what happened with iran truly have to end. and you said we'd have to deal with that. as of all, we have 40 seconds left, finish it off for us. you know, i just wanted to, to follow by uh, remind people that theres organizations at this point that are moving forward with uh, with the lawsuit seconds is randy war criminals. you know, like the cambridge out foundation or even day, the south africa's case against the agency, the international criminal court in which is going to open up a legal names for these are all to be accountable for his radiators to be accountable. and one would hope eventually even you went leaders to be accountable

for what they have allows to happen and are going we need to continue to are allowed to happen in ga. so, you know, joe might and normalize genocide thrown out, thrown because if it's normalizing ebony glancing, what's next? right. where does the buck stop and where does the international community find all these sites enough is enough. we're seeing a few as the, the tragic thing is that the people of palestine are being monitored to create a better world. that's a really hard thing to think about. that's all the time we have fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guess in room toronto and into the end. and of course i want to thank our viewers are watching us here in our tea. so you next time remember prospect rules the

boiler. suddenly minding t suddenly less probably more importantly. she's each school when a comfortable room will just didn't fit in the we sit on us. what is the facilities to do if we're still on the ocean, we're yours them? well, that's even your sewage, the right, they're going to deduct much. then you're the one, the telling me is that of course come on, look at that to me, answer those videos, the a, the same rom just don't have to shape out and engagement because the trails when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for

common ground, the the, the developing wall claimed and ruined the lines of tens of thousands. but it was the hague tribunal, with delta of finishing flow to the subs. less unexpected. i know it was that i will talk to him. all of that will cause of the curious thought me name was that the rest of your stuff or sandwich and the funded 13 as many of them are just that means okay, up on these, you're about to send me to blog the studio because without doing any cookies, so tired of table, i'll caution built around what sort of on team so, so this would be a vision door for something to bid jane stuff aside from this your boss, they have to go in each tasks as i said this. so now click on the nice to promo the problem. first i noticed was that some of

the, the having a meeting with munich depression is going to be there with our people. ukraine is also invited by the way, the president trump claims to have organized financial tools to with the over the ukraine. conflicts, although such amazing has not yet been confirmed by most india is on the side of peace. that's the message from prime interest in the range were loading as it meets trouble at the white house where the need is agreed to pay by natural trade power square times with the munich security conference. don't think today he repeating officials on the edge as relations with washington sort of a trump commitment to stop the war.