to the the hello and welcome to cross stop where all things are considered. and peter level, donald trump or risk repeating jo biden's disasters in gaza allowing genocide he returned to office claiming to be a peacemaker trumps of words and actions about gods that demonstrate the opposite. what donald trump does now will define his presidency and legacy, the cross talking guys, i'm joined by my guess what i'm in mirandi until then. he's a professor at the university of the around in rome. we have romano roberto, she is an author and the managing editor of the palestine chronicle. and in toronto,

we cross esteban carrillo lopez. he is a news desk editor at the cradle. all right, cross top roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated while i'm in monday and towed in. what is trumps gambit here? because in all of us, obviously have made it a point in our lives to follow the tragedy that unfold unfolded in palestine. and, you know, trump, in, in a few days of his new presidency, has, was, seamlessly adopted israel's policy of, of expulsion and ethnic cleansing seamlessly, all the 2 state solution stuff and all oswell and camp day, all of that stuff. it's gone. and to top it all off is a recognition that there is no such thing as a palestinian. he's come so far to go so far backwards mohammed personally and i may be wrong. i think that tom still wants to seize, hold,

and selfish interest. and so i'm guessing, and i may be completely wrong that uh, it's really raising, we'll have to make concessions from it's and move away from its maximum list approach. and the 2nd phase will probably go ahead, but whether that's correct or not, a top has done huge damage to the united states. by taking this position. he's gained the patriot people across the region and beyond. because of the policy, an issue is not an issue for us or for muslims. it is a humanitarian issue. and we've seen people from across the girl low, a support from east asia to west asia, north africa,

south africa, north america, south of america. this is a global issue now and for him to support is randy region, which is carried out this genocide has only harm the united states and its allies. and i think this is something that the underestimate. yeah. the in the regions that, you know what i was gonna add onto, uh well, and i'm agreeing with you completely. is that it shows that the, the west this take, uh, revealed itself. the mask is off there. we are the, the, the west, they showing that it is a supporter of ethnic cleansing, of neil imperialism, neo colonialism. the, if he shows it better for what it is, because even though the europeans protest, you know, they clutch their pearls, but they don't do anything about it. let's go to ramana and in rome, you know, you know, war ethnic cleansing and annexation is been the results of the zine, this project against the palestinians in palestine. but now it's being proposed as

the solution. again, it's bit everything is been flipped and we can just move these people expel them, then there will be a, what does this someone call it? god, so largo i mean this it's, it would be funny if it wasn't so cringe. go ahead in room. yes. first of all, we have to admit that this was the very intense, and i mean trump is no well put lead. speaking about it. but the intention was indifferent in the budget ministration when they dropped all of these weapons to israel, when they gave green light and you know to everything, when you know drills would close doors, they were saying please get rid of him off, which actually means please get 3, the policy that people use is exactly what they were referring to. they wanted the ethnic cleansing, and even in terms of close circle with mariam edge or some for example,

who do need an insane amount of money to trump campaign is talking about to fire. of course, who doesn't have in mind just before posting is what she has in mind is sheep focused, recovered the bethany of the hostages, and then she focus and se cleans uh, you know, to proceed with ethnic cleansing, of god. the impulse to be the west bank, which is records of the federalist colonial movement that she represents. but i want to say something about, i mean, whoever, whomever thinks that the splint is feasible, either lying or is completely ignorant of history and geography. because, i mean, in 1948, we have seen hundreds of thousands of posting is moving to our countries and we know that, you know, our and countries are still dealing with that refugee crisis. how can we think that this plan is feasible? first of all, from a practical point of view. so they go to gaza and mandatory take posting is one by

one because the posting of people have demonstrated that they have no intention of leading casa, and that their resistance has been strong and proud. throughout the genocide, so this is the 1st thing, and even in the case of the scenario is implementable, then arab countries talk made a miracle. i mean, for 16 months, our country is a sunni art countries where shamefully assignment to the genocide and keep, you know, just meet this miracle they actually are standing up. now of course we cannot be surprised when the king of jordan during the press conference, which seemed more like a truck, then press conference, said, talked about, you've national interest. he is right. he is thinking about you've national interest. you can not accept the amount of boasting use because he knows the it to be to discuss the liking for his country and even the same time he cannot allow time to cross

a certain threshold because that policy new cause is too important for his own people to yeah, well they, they, they, they enter the, the press conference. so you're talking about no, go to s about now in toronto that look more like a hostage video to me than anything else. it was really painful to watch here. but i mean the s about me is this madman theory. i as tom saying, i have an idea is if it says, oh, no idea, this is whitney whats going on since it leaves least 1948 even decades before expulsions. but is it, you know, come up with a better idea? give me a better idea. is this is tactic. is this, this negotiation approach? go ahead in toronto. well, i don't know. i would call it a negotiation. the seems more like blackmail inquire, shooting particular with the are of states, right? with jordan, with egypt as long time allies in a bit of a warning to the others, right. especially to those who have normalized with these are all into one to normalize with these real like saudi arabia, by telling them what we are waiting to do with our allies. i think a, by trump,

this is the 2nd term, you know, if he's, if he's going to be his last, certainly not based on unless there's a big change to the constitution of the coming down the line here, which i feel like at this point we cannot do anything else but the dc, so going to be his last time, you know, if his and i feel like he's approaching it that way. right. he wants to reshape not just the day that he wants to, to, to both the united states in a different role. right. i think we saw that we medical reviews stating that this is no longer a uni butler world order. and you know, we're not going to be able to sanction the countries in 5 years. it seems like there's a lot of, of, of, of, of understanding in the term white house where, you know, a, the, the global quarter stands now. yeah. but the s of the, i think there's something to what you're saying and i and, and some of that i agree with. i mean on the greenland thing, the canada thing, the panama, i get, i get the, i get that and we, and a way it's like the building or it's like it's like building fortress america, right? but then i'm gonna throw now back to my home in here,

but they're still the as is real exception. it see that's what makes it so illogical. go ahead mohammed. but that's exactly why i think from that is a good thing for the world because and we've had this discussion during his 1st term multiple times on your show, trump shows the video pace of the united states. the see, for example, of biden and obama is gone, as your guess, rightly pointed out, these policies of ethnic cleansing were being pursued under biden as well. and right now, so here, because it's so different, critical watching items of borders. jonathan outrage are you are showing an outrage of what trump statements when they were assisting with this god, this holocaust and god. so it says if removing the palestinians has outrages for killing them where they are as old as fine. so in a sense, i find this,

this whole narrative refreshing because it exposes the united and by the way, puts a lot of pressure on the pope pro western and pull american camp in the region. because these dictators, whether it's in jordan or egypt or even turkey, where ad on is continuing to sell it as oil to. and so who cheat box a while to and nothing yahoo, all of them are put on or under greater pressure when the united states speak fight this when the president speaks like this. but personally, i do agree that i think there's really, regime is an exception. we know the reason why the powerful design this lobby in the united states is behind it. but in general, i think that actually this whole, this talk of greenland in canada and the panama canal is, is an attempt to create a dignified retreat for the united states. yeah, the united states can sort of tie coughing,

ukraine and bad cough and other places back down in other areas. but show itself to be stronger. the only problem and mohammad going after people that can't defend themselves. you know what, what is green when gonna say no, i me for oh yeah, germany might send troops. the u. k. may send troops. aaron. so what? okay. i, that would be the one thing that us about brought up i think is really important. before we go to the break, here, trump is an egomaniac, he's thinking very, very much about his legacy and how he wants to be seen. he wants to be put on mount rushmore. that is his goal. he wants to a peace prize because obama got one. and so i think that there is an enormous amount of overreach here, and we'll get to see it over the next few days. you think that the, the cease fire will continue, even if it does, they're still the 3rd part and that's what we're going to talk about when we come back from the break. we had to go to that break. and after that break,

we'll continue our discussion. our goal is to stay with our to the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just because it shows you fractured images, presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground can the after the nazi's power in italy,

states foreign policy became extremely aggressive. benito, mussolini needed glorious victory. he decided to achieve his ambitions in africa. despite the fact that formally libya had become an italian colony back in 1912. the vast territories of this country were not actually controlled by rome. the nazis decided to put an end to this. but as soon as the religious order of this genocide stood in their way, the arabs did not want to submit to for and power and bowed up stairs, resistance, dividers against colonialism, were led by the chief of the senate side order. omar l move star, who was nicknamed the lion of the desert for his incredible courage. despite the violent, bombardments and voice and gas usage, mass deportations, and the imprisonment of the local population and concentration camps, the invaders could not go with the arrow patriots for a decade. in 1931,

omar l moved star was captured and sentenced hanging at the trial. the hero of the libyan people behaved very bravely and rejected. pardon? pursuing a policy of genocide, italy was only able to temporarily suppress libya, 18th of the entire population. more than 100000 people fell victim to their. however, just a few years later, the entail you enroll, collapsed in 1951, libya became one of the 1st countries in africa to gain independence. the, the welcome act across software. all things are considered computer all about your mind. you were discussing godsa. the

ok, let's go to another in rome. it's already been mentioned here, the normalization of relations between saudi arabia and israel. the, the abraham process is it's called here. but there, there is a different normalization going on, and this is what trump is done. he's normalized ethnic cleansing, okay. it's that, you know, it has to be done. it's just how it's done. that's the discourse is changed in that direction, but it's very, very dangerous. and because there's a, you have a, a extremely right wing government under nets and, you know, in israel, they're just tearing it on. and again, you know, maybe this is my interpretation. and i have to admit to all of you, i've talked to a lot of people since last tuesday, and there are a lot of different interpretations of what's going on here. but it is a donald trump, again in the united states is taking on all of the risk because it'd be, the americans insist that it must be cleaned out. and these rates and say, well,

you know, that's what the americans want to do. i mean, it's passing the risk. go ahead and room. yes i, i do not know exactly what trump had in mind. i have to say that the character is unpredictable, especially when it comes to foreign policy. but you know, doing that seem as press conference on february 4th. so to be shocked, even this unhealthy and very shocked. honestly, it seemed that she was caught by surprise by the announcement and the, the to risk that i see in the plan that trump enunciated is more in the way it can be absorbed by these. why you parties i treat. i think that for example, it on how, which doesn't necessarily would benefit from discipline any way. because even of the effect of staying the united states, we take ownership of golf. they're not saying is, well it's, we'll take ownership of government. they're saying this is an american issue, this is a washington issue. so i do not think that even on the ground for is well,

these actually enables what made and how has in mind. but in the same time, it's on how immediately took advantage and tried to get to the lifeline for his own political interest. for, for example, to regroup his extreme government. so now been near, for example, didn't stop screaming since february 4th, please implement the plan. i would like to attend the year. the problem is not that they didn't try already, to se can be cleaned guides or they have been trying for 16 months. the problem for you is that they didn't manage, they didn't succeed in best plan. but in the meantime, you know, nathan held could take this in the extreme, is government in these words and other political groups he needs what? because don't forget that actually basically, or main political parties he needs was towed any, agree on the i think lindsey of publishing is as a solution to the problem. so when we talk about extremism in these, well,

it's really very complicated, very complicated, a ground. yeah. well i, as i say, i think it's a very narrow overton window. okay, exactly. okay. that's about, i mean the, we're coming up this saturday about, uh, 3 hostages or hostages or all the hostages. they get it. there's so many different takes there. you can interpret the way what do you think they will go into the 2nd part of the ceasefire? because it seems like israel has, we've, i think all of us with our agreement, they never were on board for this. it was public political expedients at the time. i trump, one of that he got, you know, he got the glory for it. the afterglow is almost gone. but i don't see why is real, would do it. i'm looking at the there are costs, which is they never talk about the palestinian hostages that are being held in jails in israel. is there a chance that this could be extended? i say i do believe there is a chance a i'm not sure if it's uh the how big

a by chance is there is right because there is these. uh theres for a lot there is for warm or into into is really go are meeting these really as a 0 guess as it is really population itself. right? um, they, the gossip problem is not going to be resolved by allowing them to reveal this is the way that they see it, right? especially when you see e mail just of cassandra yates, we arm you and we these right new weapons, a setting up these stages setting up these, these, these as mold parades, right? to showcase the 1st of all the hostages in the copy was really in english. i have barely been mistreated and 2nd of all that they're still in control, right? that they're literally coming out of the trenches as saying, look, you committed genocide on those for 15 months, you slap and gossip, and yet here we are. here we are still, and this is a reminder that these really uh, that is real and the united states does not like to see, right, because it goes against everything that they have done and everything that they stand for and everything that they say. and now i don't know it's wrong that these

idea to ethnically cleansed a guy, so he's gonna be sending us troops and band and very likely he's not going to be uh, he's not gonna be ready troops doing it right. we already seen that he's ready. troops kill a lot of cbs, but they're not very successful at actually, you know, and removing people from uh, from uh where their homes are. and so what are we talking about here? i think at the end of the day a, they're probably going to consider private military contracts, right. a mercenary companies like those that have already been putting in beats to come in and brought the humanitarian songs inside of the gaza strip. so at the end of the day, what we're seeing today is really the depth of international law. the author of us can be said, this is what the united states end of trump presidency and divided presidents as well. i'll tell you what i'd be more of a saw was doing, you know, you know, mohammed the, i think it as the bottom put it really just perfectly. this is the internet end of international law, international human and humanitarian law. and it's the way it's really pathetic about it is these were i is they came out of the west and now the west has rejected

them. there's always an exception. okay. it shows the west and its true light. i mean how, what, what will happen during the 2nd stage here, i mean, there still captives in israel is nothing. yeah. who going to, he's a, he does, he's never seem to have shown that have much interest in their fate. it's only because of the prodding of a people like donald trump and his donors go ahead mohammed again, i think that it is in trump's interest for the 2nd phase to move forward. but regardless of what happens when from, as you alluded to the, the, the 3rd phase when he rejected the 3rd phase a few days ago. basically what he did was that he undermine the united states as a negotiator. so for example, right now the united states wants to negotiate with you've drawn it yet. but when the writing and see that the united states,

as the guarantor of the ceasefire in gaza is now saying we don't want the 3rd phase . that means you cannot trust united states, you cannot trust any deal that it proposes. and the same is, remember not if it is rainy, regime violates the sci fi day night. murder is innocent people and the united states as a guarantor or the ceasefire, does nothing in that means. basically you cannot trust the united states. and even though i do not believe in the rules base order for the very reason that you pointed out, that it was designed by the west and it serves their interest. and they constantly violated it because they saw themselves as exceptional. but in my opinion, it was in their interest and undermining this order. actually, while it is it, it, it creates great hardship in the west becomes more brutal and him and it shows it as a morality. but i think the collapse of this order is in the long run,

a good thing, because it breaks the chains that the americans and the europeans have created for the rest of the world. and there they can no longer behaving an exceptional manner . the rest of the world no longer sees itself for themselves as a restrained by this order which benefits the west. so in my opinion, in the long run, by, by violating the deal, by dismissing the 3rd phase by violating the rules base order, what truck and the united states are doing, or by tearing up the rules base order is that they're further undermining the position of the united states, even though in its short term being made, he or the united states may think that it benefit. so you know, it's very interesting. we're by the last week on this program to my head, to my good guests. and i think um, i saw the future of this movement because they were deeply divided on trumps policy

. when it comes to the gaza, i knew it was going to happen when you don't have power. you can say all kinds of things. but now trump is in office and his movement is getting more and more divided over the there's a part of his movement is just as appalled as we are. and there, you know, it's a lot like, you know, a steel tear up should be 17 percent or 25 percent. we're not talking about tariffs, we're talking about genocide and more and more people are beginning to realize that which side of history do you want to be on? and it's, it, it's good to divide his movement. that's why i said in my introduction, this is going to be determine his legacy. go ahead and roam to. yes, absolutely. and i mean, some doesn't act in a vacuum. of course, you have a lot of influences. for example, last week there was a, in a letter from is where you revise standing him, that she was the messenger for of good against evil. so of course,

he's acting in these also in his own circle, which is, you know, filled with extreme as design. if and cetera of colonial and people who do not accept that the word is indeed changing. and i fully agree with the fact that the legitimacy of the west is, you know, shaking. and this is something that they cannot deny that they cannot be. they can no longer deny and you know, even the, the ease work itself, like the consequences of what happened in gaza. i think we would see them in the long run. israel has lost a deterrent news, or deterrence in the region and in gaza itself. and this is something that, you know, in the long run, we will see the consequences. but now they are particularly eager to show that they are still in control. that, you know, there was to some degree of power. and these, of course, will be a stage in this process that it would be particularly atrocious for publishing and,

and the policy on population. but it is undeniable that without pending cause of what happened, you never know what happened with iran, truly have to end and easily. we have to deal with that as to why we have 40 seconds left, finish it off for us. you know, i just wanted to, to follow by. 2 remind people that theres organizations at this point that are moving forward with uh, with the lawsuit seconds is randy war criminals. you know, like the cambridge, our foundation or even day the south africa's case against the agency. the international criminal court in which is going to open up, i need all names for these are all to be accountable for his writing needs to be accountable. and one would hope eventually even you ends leaders to be accountable for what they have allowed to happen. and are going to, we need to continue to are allowed to happen in ga. so, you know, joe might in normalize genocide thrown out, thrown these is normalizing ebony, glancing. what's next? right. where does the buck stop and where does the international community find? all these sites in all these are not, we're seeing a few as the,

the tragic thing is that the people of palestine are being monitored to create a better world. that's a really hard thing to think about. that's all the time we have fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guess in room toronto and into the end. and of course i want to thank our viewers are watching us here in our tea. so you next time. remember, prospect rules the the, if you think about russia, what does your mind picture the world landscapes open up before your eyes?

the last one, just imagine the, the discounts dodge the journey. the, are you ready to come along the? because curtis, christina, remember cafe in us mission? let us know. there's just some of the similar pollution studios testing, and maybe as the rest of the federalist are so used to not to co insurance or she thought she needs to take her purchases being charged to so high pump, comfortable with a doses at what time, what time are the facts and kind of get you into this event and then shoot for them

to kinda figure out the size of the site and use it on your cell phone. so that's gonna charge for problem solving this whole so, so who's on, who's on each angle? angle the figure. so what do you use to, to what i said to somebody of all for most of them, which is 2 days and then just to, to, to me as soon as depth, i'm still losing judas kansas and should job that. i see 2 guys to do some 1st of with that, what's more is the child support the national just the risk of, of getting single machine. yeah, the, the,

the breaking news wants to accuse is key of, of a false flag attack on the turnover nuclear facility. only a day after president clinton and trump agreed to work toward ending as the train of conflict. the munich security conference kicks off with the you create in complex set to take center stage and it's broken promises. then a major wake up call from nato. the bonus tag should make a decision as soon as possible, according to which the war in ukraine and its serious consequences for the security of germany and europe are to be classified as an emergency. and the trumpet and 2 separate leaves to europe in a panic and its leaders scrambling to be included in the negotiation. the.