the and importantly, cultural consensus in the west is falling apart. is that a fair characterization? it's theater falling apart or the narrative about it is falling apart. one of the 2 things is happening. the reality is starting to emerge. it's undeniable. it's been on denial for people that have been looking at this closely. but um, american politicians have not been they've been playing a game for a long time. certainly under the past 2 administrations, really. so what trump is trying to do, i think, is figure out what the truth is as a starting point. yes, very interesting because david, a lot of people were very, very critical of pegs that the secretary of defense when he came out and said, would be administration's approach. no nato, for ukraine, no us troops. ukraine is going to have to accept the territorial losses. and just as good, karen just said, i mean that these are facts, these are, these are,

these are not creating political facts. these are hard realities and he was criticized for it. but i think that's exactly the approach that has to be taken. because from that point from starting from there, then you can still deal with problems with both sides legitimately can raise. go ahead david. yeah, it's very refreshing to see uh, tops a truck in ministration officials talking a realistic way. i mean, everyone knows that, that's, that's going to be the, in the, in a peace agreement. there's no peace possible unless, you know, a peace deal. is it a minimally acceptable to the russian federation? and so, you know, i think the truck ministration is, is going about in a good way. i don't think he gave up any leverage at all by making those statements because moscow, the other grimwood has made clear that there has to be some kind of an agreed upon piece framework. i'm that, that uh, you know, include some of their key elements of, of a piece deal. ok,

in order for there to be a ceasefire. so i think i pj accessed statements have moved us halfway there. that's a good point here. um, but i also um, who gets a seat at the table here as a, as a farmer, ukrainian diplomat. i would posit the following year obviously have the right to disagree with me. but zalinski gave away ukraine sovereignty, so it had it with the country with no sovereignty. it doesn't have a seat at the table, but that was a craven choice on the part of zalinski and his clique around him, which of course he did. he followed orders from washington in london and brussels. so too bad you gave away your store a tv be and he's not even live a legitimately legally the the president of ukraine. so forfeiture. that's what to what did someone tell me? oh, recently you play stupid games and you get stupid prizes. go ahead. andre. i would agree on you on this unfortunately, for my policy. so i don't see. and the former government printing on a report,

shameful, has electric, crated totally on the loss of total sovereignty. after the 2014, where i was in the government, when we saw all these, my probations by the united states embassy united states government on telling ukraine government what to do, who to appoint who to fire and who to high and how to get ready the monthly and how to do the works and the government, basically we were a total on solver and country. and today, great has lost it. at the end of all of what it was really has happened was all they come out and support the west space and off the thing itself. we can obviously, at this point, the wednesday not only is, is not a legitimate president. he is not able to speak for the country itself. the country is looking for for change. the brain, france will, you will are for, along with all this proper data. do not want the last you there. so he does not represent the country. you cannot represent, you pay all the tax talks. so what is to the question, who is here?

who represents the frame to the future elections, making the change because any of those is going to be elected are the, there's all positioning crazy. that was this point by the west and why? because there was support democracy, pray x. so there's nobody to choose from. so what is the answer? tells you crazy, representative properly here. you have some candidates in the pony which is legitimate to be part of the negotiations, but they can be only part of a rush and we've actually to agree upon a deal that will be represent a level and see frame, but such as europe itself because there are also lots and sovereignty to the situation. so this friction with, basically the way it's always been on the computer to me or, well, you know, again as, as seats at the table. karen, the europeans obviously are furious, but they're not given a seat. but why should they be given a seat? they have, they were entrust with the men's process. they were failures. not only were they failures, they lied. okay. they lied to the public. they lied to the russians. they lied.

unfortunately, most of all, to the people of the don bask, so they forfeited there was a seat at the table. and why in the world with zelinski in the you be given a safe? if they don't want a piece, they want more. why should they be able to say a peace conference? go ahead. yeah, it should not be. they should not be. and i think um, you know, the, the ingredients, most of the admitted lives that germany and, and others who weren't supposed to be the guarantors of the makes agreements. they publicly admitted some years later after rumors were people in suspected, this was the case, but they probably embraced it as if it was a positive as it lying. and, and lying about your commitments to piece even years ago in 2014 was that that was okay. that was okay, they were justified in doing that. so it is right for anyone who wants peace in europe and anyone who wants peace anywhere. they have nothing but contempt for most

of the european leaders and they have not earned the right to suit it. it's not only that they don't want it, they don't want peace. clearly they are dependent on this continued conflict. but they don't deserve a seat at the table and they cannot be trusted, those individuals and those who are supporting the ones who, who lied about their guarantor function. and so we just want to strengthen ukraine for more, more. anyone align with those people should, is automatically disqualified ends. lensky chose a very poorly with the friends that you would surround himself with. well, they've all the more so david, i mean, we did have a weeks after the conflict started in 2022. we had the sample process again, zalinski forfeited his country's fortunes. okay. why would you trust someone like that to be around a negotiating table? i mean, he chose for himself and is, is a clique around him and is western friends. he chose badly for his own people.

david, you're actually right. you created a, you don't, they don't the server see that the table because they've, they've refused to sit at the table. oh goodness, been sitting alone at the table waiting for you know, the us and ukraine and i guess you to, to join them in the conflict in, in uh you know, dado leaders binding and you creative not allowed a lot, rush it in the conflict with a negotiated disagreement. um so, um, you know, that's been, that's been 3 years. the simple agreement was, i think it would have been a victory for everyone. it would have been a win win win for russia. it would have been a winfrey, ukraine. you know, russia would have withdrawn from most as 8 hope los ukraine could have had a 93 percent of it. so internationally recognized territory. and of course, rupture likely would've been next the people's republic. oh, don't ask in lieu hands, but that would have been the end of it. you prayed, would have been neutral. it would have been a peace and it would have been

a had true security just as it had from 1991 to 2014, when it was a neutral buffer state between russian in data. you know, buffer stays, protect both sides of russian would be protected against data regression data would be protected against russian aggression. and you know, we, the ukraine would not have lost 30 percent of its, of us population as it has done today. you know, on today the, the one group of people that are missing in this group equation are the ukranian people. we do know that for well over a year now i'm more than, yeah, well, over a year now, public opinion polls and ukraine and, and i'm sure it's not the freest environment to do public opinion polls, but a majority of people want a settlement. ok, again, a man that is no longer legally the president of your country is making decisions and that's even against the will of his own people. the yeah, of course the here, the premiums are not the bird at all. because the west is the basic closing down,

your brakes then losing anything on the screen. so called democracy because the war was that goes, the people will flood the countries, but the price of the country are the people who love the army. brain cannot lead because they don't want the money or afraid to leave the country because the borders was going to get shot. and they, nobody's even the. but what is even the people who are abroad transport in europe, we're in russia, there's millions of ukrainians and russia are who are and i mean heard of that. yeah. very easy for you are being basically put to the ground and nobody's talking about them. i just spoke to a couple of girls last week from some boston journal. they're like, oh, we hate tougher process because what direction to so oh, so what the situation the rest is i'm talking about with the, the russian federation. but other things i was wanting to talk about, the real situation is tucker, cos. i'm talking to the restriction of russia and talking to put me talking to france while you're not talking and show the situation how the brands are being thrown as a dog to the fact why don't not really question what did they want?

the real piece be free, they weren't going to pc that ever. they're going to be controlled by the russia yet, the russian left russia. that's what they were faced with just one piece of horseback and we just want our country to be developing back again. that's what they want, but the west is know that it was a life of the didn't want even talk about it because they are afraid of the truth because of the truth from top of the whole western. so called the all the way. i mean the i'm, i'm under a real, i'm literally glad you brought it up. i mean, a well over a 1000000, i think is 1300000 ukrainians. came to russia after the, as i most started. okay. i have never heard that in history where the so called aggressor, except uh, uh, people playing for a bit apparently uh, fleeing to the people that are pressing them. but it's never mentioned in western media and i'm really glad that you brought it up. all right folks, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue on discussion on your price and say, with our team force

it nearby slots us down the last 3 out of the here at the board. she must not submit a sports. and she wasn't able to review the story and pushing nate or studio and i see for sure option that this be so efficient though. if we started the critics on gosh, 3, and you want you to or it was a school in your welski territory service can say is the natural logos of it. so formally, ship portion or the find me think about me just for, but i still knew about chavo in gold and i'm a savvy as close as you was and got the doors board us at ocean and continuing to go out and i get bully now probably not sure the south, the strong, clear, but still both saw it to the south pole. so comfortable that of a post and just got a snare. gosh. care for which boys coming out on the bus, which is still going to me. so i'm only publisher and kind of, i just, i'm a got the reason why can you go use the best number you get to talk about is the

scheme of much bundle of g, circa, comfortable to front of you don't want some about on the desktop. i do have tough go and we'll just stuff some of the oh, what else seemed wrong? just don't you have to safe house to come after care and engagement? because the trail when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look so common ground. the

in february 2022 ukraine, the game, the world's number one new story for ukraine, new brand new credit imprinted crane question. truth invaded to create a new one perspective. ukraine suffering from russian aggression. we seen the main stream media and the nightly numerous were citing clean developed scripts that essentially say exactly the same thing using the buzz word. so this is a threat to our democracy. when you see 10 different channels a exactly that sentence, you know that it's a central intelligence agency script. the role of p r firms in ukraine, throughout europe and into united states really can be overstated. it's quite different than it wasn't previous decades where there used to be more of a cobra propaganda, government propaganda operations. now this is just celebrated as p r in helping ukraine and helping get their message out in terms of the case who's pulling the

strings and who is profiting the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing ukraine, the okay, let's go back to karen it. okay we, i think we've kind of laid out the groundwork here about how to move forward. but as i said in my introduction, this is going to be very, very hard because to this, even with all the expressions of goodwill and wanting to get this done. finally, i have to take a step back and, you know, look at our terms and conditions of engagement here. and he's still here in the one the, even among people that want this conflict and they keep using the word ceasefire.

that's not what the russians want. ok, trump wants an end to the conflict. well, i want the end of the complex, but for the conflict, the end, the security issues that russia has have to be addressed. it's just not going to be a ceasefire. it's not going to be november 11th, 1918. okay. that is that, and if it were that case that it would be easy, but russia is not going to accept that. that's not going to accept a ceasefire. karen? yeah, no, that's, that is true. and i think got a lot of what's going on now with as long meetings and, and even the hectic schedule is i think the trump administration is, has been, i think we know we can accept that they've been very ill informed about the situation and ukraine. he knows, i think trump the trump, people understand europe a little bit better, which is why vance was so you may leading towards them when his meeting recently says, but the trunk people don't understand the bottom line situation. they don't have

a clear sense. i don't believe yet, of the cars that russia holds militarily on a battlefield, in terms of the economy in terms of their messaging, which is russia's messaging has been so remarkably consistent from day one on this whole thing, but miracles and certainly trump wasn't paying much attention to that, so his people with cost is not an expert on ukraine. he's a deal maker real estate guy. so they are trying, i believe, to understand the ground rules and, and certainly trumps all about momentum. yeah, but i think they're learning, they're taking the time to learn and listen. and also trump has other has other priorities beyond ukraine. i think in very much he sees ukraine as a problem. russia, if he wants to be friends with europe, he wants to continue to you really 8 and exploit unfortunately, which is i'm not a fan of nato, so i don't mind that. but for, for, for europeans, this is a bad time for them. and that's a totally different issue than,

than killing ukrainians, which is something our us congress has been doing enthusiast equally well i, i wish i could have a share your sense, but when it comes to your, your opinions or getting what they deserve. okay. they need a mass of wake up call. all right. and well, for, i'm not a fan of nato, anyone that watches program knows that, but i have to say care. and that i am, i gleefully watch the europeans destroy nato. not trump. it's the europeans that are doing it. okay. you know, when, when you're, when you're adversaries or an associate or a firing squad, don't get it, don't get in the way. okay. but that would, that'll be another topic for another program. david, do you worry that we, we may have, uh, our expectations may be too high a little bit. yeah, i think there is, there is a chance that the, you know, the neo cons and the truck ministration. my overestimate you craze. position of us position is karen mention, you know, rush,

it has been winning this war comprehensively. they inflicted probably 1100000 the printing military casualties have the costs of maybe 2 150000 russians of which only under a 1000 i have been killed. so, you know, russia has an extreme advantage, $5.00 to $1.00 on a numerical advantage on most areas of the eastern front. and you know, it's important that, you know, i think the biggest area of dispute in any final piece agreement is going to be the boss was ation deep writing and military, you know, kellogg statements. where does that rate us? you know, we're going to build up the euphrates military modernize that after the war after a peace deal and, and that's completely unacceptable to russia. you know, it has to be one or to 1000. you creating a troop limit versus was in the state of old agreement on the russian side. maybe we can increase the size of, of the board regard forces that are, would be non military. and if you start conditions and we have to see the

militarization of the, the for bloss. uh, you know, i think maybe that's one area that i, i hope that russia can concede to, to make peace along the line of control. but i, you know, i think trump does understand russia, he does have strategic empathy for rational anders, he's made clear statements that you know, us would never accept, you know, within the country a lot are borders. so i, i'm incredibly helpful of what i see. i think overall the truck ministration is doing an excellent job. and it, that causes features with our client states and data. i'm fine with that. well, you know that i, again, you know, it's so much is being talked about ukraine, but what do you crate in spring 10, ukraine? i mean, use, it looks like they do, you know, at least the current leadership are people in power and ukraine. they want to move towards a european union membership. um, uh, and that's up to the ukranian people. but i mean, did they do the,

after all this is happened? do you think you crane can trust europe? i don't think the price and that's us. anybody have right now at all in this situation. the pre solitaire is the rate of 2014 the promises of the so called pretty world geography union and to start from trips to deanna and haven't talked in vienna by pershing co are now in a blood shed. any pray, don't you finance understand? but they need to be just be where they are. it was that you left the hall. this is what the trumpet and restrictions thermostat and the western world brain. i still have to completely watch space is to start acting on it and start getting all the us into groups out of your brain. there's more than 60 of them in ukraine was proclaimed the premium for, for front of the front load, sorry for war and the sofa assault. and that's the battalion groups for orbit prussia. and they were, i said, i sent the stuff in them today. so they have to do that,

who they actually recreate at all. was the different sovereign public diplomatic for stadium pray. she felt official, at least the crate of all were to the handle of the situation with pressure after the peace of the night states and the rush or because the whole war was started by the way. when you print into the source of your is the future of refrain, i think is not an option. you frame up, but i to that, but i think not only on today, but i think a ukraine may have a future if the us a id would get out of ukraine and stop meddling. i mean, you know, you tell you it's hard on the turn on bbc and, and out is here and they have this, you know, human rights lawyer. okay. that speaks pretty good. english. she's blonde, she's pretty oh, she's on the payroll of us. a id where you're not getting the opinion from ukrainians, you're getting it from the, the, the foreign policy blog and the west that actually is against the trump administration, as we speak. okay. that's part of the route problem for ukraine. is it a we get

a very distorted picture of what people think? and needless to say that jones, that you can see on telegram. karen, we, we're talking before the program started um 4 and a half hours, but that was the length of the 1st meeting and in riyadh and i'm, i'm pretty much bedding and you agreed with me. and i'd like to explain to our viewers that, that part, a good part of that conversation. if not all of it actually was about us russian relations. why did you, why were you agreeing with me? go ahead. well, i mean we've had this incredible uh, unbelievable gap in our us, russian relations with vice. and of course vitamin was not a, a confident leader of our country in terms of speaking to his fellow leaders. we know that, but there was also the, a very aggressive anti russian view throughout the button, a government throughout the democratic party. and unfortunately, throughout the republican parties, you had bipartisan anti russian is um, uh, rest of phobia, institutionalized, for really over 4 years. so trump, uh uh,

and of course trump was personally affected by this is his, uh, 1st impeachment related to that. and um, and i actually, the last case people is, once he's government, this is why is the landscape should be very nervous. you know, trump has some good features, but he also is the one who holds a grudge. he remembers people who have betrayed him. this is as loyal ideas, very important to him and it's part of his success. and he does not trust zelinski at all. so, um pers, on a personal level, so this is the, all of this has to be fixed, but yes, the rest of the thing is most important. um also trump understands uh, you know, with his greenland down, but you know, he understands raw materials. he understands the strategic location. he does this may be from a real estate perspective, maybe as an american imperialist, if you want to call it that. but he understands that. and so russia accounts you talk to russia, you negotiate with russia,

you under make sure there is an understanding with russia, ukraine, unfortunately for trump, for personal reasons, and political we is, is a historical reasons. it does not count for him. so these, these early talks are definitely about the bilateral relationship, which is, which is good because we have to do that before we can find out what's, what thing you're creating and people deserve, which is piece. yeah, no doubt. if it's a neutral piece, it is a piece that doesn't threaten anyone, a piece that is profitable. you know, in fact, you know, we, we know pieces profitable. it really is where we talk about how much money you can leave only a few people make money from more peace. everyone becomes wealthy in a peaceful state. and by and, you know, care you know, care. and after all of the bloodshed and all of the violence, there is the, the, there is no hatred of ukrainians, and russian russians don't hate ukrainians. okay. you're with a us a id help ukranian spread, russo phobia around the world. but after everything that's been the last is on both

sides, they're still not animosity towards ukraine and ukrainian people against people like zelinski. well, obviously that's different. david, you know, one of the things i, you know, going back to 2014, the origins of this conflict. everybody, not 2020 to 2014. you know, russia in the united states don't necessarily have to be friends, but they should not be enemies. i think that's more to now than ever before. go ahead david. yeah, i think you're exactly right. so the and that's, that's the greatness of president trump is in a single day, he essentially transformed russia from an adversary to arrival in a competitor, rape our competitor, versus an anatomy. and that's something we didn't see and divided restriction in, in the whole key to us security is to, is to neutralize the side of russian. why is the way you do that? is you be, is to be, have friendly relations with both moscow and vision. and to, you know, increase investments and ties with the, with russia, with india to,

and this, you know, talk about a new security architecture in europe. it includes russia with indivisible security that benefits all provide security at all. this is somebody that russia has been been, uh, you know, advocates such that is the soviet union, the 1989. well it, it could be and you know, all of you, i mean a historically a y'all to is a put trail. i'll take you on the altar 2 point oh and a new york minute. if it brings peace, all right, that's all the time. we have a fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guessing basil, mount jackson and, and salt lake city. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are key. so you next time and remember pressed on, the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just

a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify, it will confuse who really wants a better world, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusions, going underground? can i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show your mind and justification for should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously, is to makes a trust rather than fit the various jobs. i mean,

with the artificial intelligence, we have so many with him in the robot most protects his phone existence was alexis, the, is 14 years which sports combines elements of the follies after bus seats in the own drama. what does it cost with making gymnast this? and it is the facility midland visions we're going to find out just for sake to be the best of the best. the during the 2nd world war pool underground power, military organizations in poland, occupied by german troops, as well as in the bordering regions of bella, ros. we're united into the so called home on a trip to the political center to order uh,

ordered the prospect just as close i use a blue screen time list. uh, if i put in the front of it is actually considered in the shipping label here through these issues shy sticker, whom ami was the main organization of the poet issue of systems fighting against gym and occupation. and soviet rule me out of me cuz i knew away my teaching, so i need to level she voice up. really unfair voice thoughts. i mean, you're saying it's going to put those on anything unusual in this instance. that's what it is. the home on a county down operation is to destroy the nazis. but then switch to settling school was, was serviette partisans, and the civilian population that supported them. they have nearby to automate car you over to destroy your hospice and me today. well, i've been in the new data product for my goal is to have the product is on the new post that has to be a liberal in agreement or just the booklet is devali. 60 those up levels towards the wounds you go to you, belittle serious deal of when you need suppressor skills. and we generally look

for use emily to treat the motion the on september the 14th 2022 totally. so it will make us overwhelmingly lost the resolution demanding will reparations. the gemini has to pay nearly $1.00 trillion dollars to make amends for nazi accidents during world war 2. the events such as demanding money from russia to the, at the altar conference in february 1945, attended by the heads of governments of the u. s s o u k and usa.