the, the, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross popular. all things are considered. i'm peter level. now the hard part starts russia in the united states, the greeks, the blood living and ukraine must come to an end. but getting there is hard, very hard. there is so little trust and the europeans who want the complex to continue will do everything they can to prevent peace,

the cross talking ukraine, i'm joined by my guess, caring fields kosky in mount jackson. she is a retired air force. lieutenant colonel, having served at both n s a and the office of secretary of defense in salt lake city. we have david pine . he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. and in basil we cross the andre w franco. he is a former ukrainian diplomat. all right, cross lock rolls in effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. karen, let me go to you 1st and mount jackson. so many things are happening. it's hard even for us, that are new z people to keep up with it. but i'd like to start with a very broad brush question to you over the last, particularly last week or so. it seems to me that the post world war 2, security and importantly, cultural consensus in the west is falling apart. is that a fair characterization? it's either falling apart or the narrative about it is falling apart. one of the 2

things is happening. reality is starting to emerge. it's undeniable. it's been a denial for people that have been looking at this closely. but um, american politicians have not been they've been playing a game for a long time. certainly under the past 2 administrations, really. so what trump is trying to do, i think, is figure out what the truth is as a starting point. yeah, it's very interesting because david, a lot of people were very, very critical of pegs that the secretary of defense when he came out and said, would be administration's approach. i know nato for ukraine. no us troops. ukraine is going to have to except the territorial losses. and this is good. karen just said, i mean that these are facts, these are, these are, these are not creating political facts. these are hard realities. and he was criticized for it. but i think that's exactly the approach that has to be taken because from that point from starting from there,

then you can still deal with problems with both sides legitimately can raise. go ahead david. yeah, it's very refreshing. it just the tops of dropping ministration officials talking a realistic way. i mean, everyone knows that that that's, that's going to be the end, the end of piece agree with there is no peace possible unless you know a peace deal. is it a minimal acceptable to the russian federation? and so, you know, i think the truck ministration is, is going about in a good way. i don't think he gave up any leverage at all by making those statements . because moscow it was the criminal, it has made clear that there has to be some kind of an agreed upon piece framework . i'm that, that uh, you know, include some of their key elements of, of a piece deal. ok, in order for there to be a ceasefire. so i think i pj accessed statements have moved us halfway there. that's a good point here. um, but i also um, who gets a seat at the table here?

um, as a, as a farmer, ukrainian diplomat, i would posit the following. you're obviously have the right to disagree with me. but zalinski gave away ukraine sovereignty, so it had it with the country with no sovereignty. it doesn't have a seat at the table, but that was a craven choice on the part of zalinski in his clique around him, which of course he did. he followed orders from washington in london and brussels. so too bad you gave away your store. i to be and he's not even live a legitimately legally the, the president of ukraine. so forfeiture, that's what to what did someone tell me a recent play. you play stupid games and you get stupid prizes. go ahead. andre, i would agree on you on this. unfortunately for my country, so once tea and the former government printing on a report shameful, has electric, right? and totally down the loss of total sovereignty after the 2014, where i was in government, when we saw all these,

my probations by the united states embassy united states government on telling ukraine government what to do, who to afford, who to fire and who to hire and how to get ready, the monthly and how to do the work. so the government, basically we were a total on solver and country and today, great has lost it at the end of all of what, what was, what has happened was all they come out of support in the west based off the thing that solves like an honestly at this point, the wednesday, not only is, is not a legitimate president. he is not able to speak for the country itself. the country is looking for for change. the brain, france will, you will, are, for, along with all this propaganda. do not watch the last you there, so he does not represent the country. he cannot be presented. you pay all the tech stocks. so what is the question? who is here? who represents the frame to the future elections, making the change because any of those is going to be elected, argue there's all position a crazy that it was destroyed by the west. and why?

because there was support democracy, pray x. so there's nobody to choose from. so what is the answer tells you praise your representative properly here, you have some candidates in the pony which is legitimate and can be part of the negotiations, but they can be only part of a rush and we've actually to agree upon a deal that will be represent a metal frame, but such as europe itself because there are also lost and sovereignty to the situation to do, especially because the, the way it's always been on the computer to america. well, you know, again, as, as seats of the table care and the europeans obviously are furious that they're not given a seat. but why should they be given a seat they have they were entrust, did with the men's process. they were failures. not only were they failures, they lied. okay. they lied to the public. they lied to the russians. they lied. unfortunately, most of all to the people of the don bask. so they forfeited, there was a seat at the table. and why in the world with zelinski in the you be given to see

that they don't want a piece, they want more. why should they be able to say a peace conference? go ahead. yeah, it should not be. they should not be. and i think um, you know, the, the ingredients, most of the admitted lives that germany and others who weren't supposed to be the guarantors of the makes agreements. they publicly admitted some years later, after rowers were people in suspected. this was the case, but they probably embraced it as if it was a positive as it lying. and, and lying about your commitments to piece even years ago in 2014. was that that was okay. that was okay. they were justified in doing that. so it is right for anyone who wants peace in europe and anyone who wants peace anywhere. they have nothing but contempt for most of the european leaders. and they have not earned the right to see that it's not only that they don't want, they don't want peace. clearly they are dependent on this continued conflict, but they don't deserve a seat at the table and they cannot be trusted,

those individuals and those who are supporting the ones who, who lied about their guarantor function. and so we just want to strengthen ukraine for more more. anyone align with those people? it should, is automatically disqualified ends. lensky chose a very poorly with the friends that you would surround himself with. well, they've all the more so david, i mean, we did have a weeks after the conflict started in 2022. we had the assembled process again, zalinski forfeited his country's fortunes. okay. why would you trust someone like that to be around a negotiating table? i mean, he chose for himself and his is a clique around him and is western friends. he chose badly for his own people. david, you're actually right. you created a you don't, they don't to service a seat at the table because they've, they've refused to sit at the table. oh goodness, been sitting alone at the table waiting for uh, you know,

the us and ukraine and i guess you to, to join them and the conflict in, in, uh you know, dado leaders uh binding and uh you creative not allowed a lot, rush it in the conflict with a negotiated piece agreement. um so, um, you know, that's been, that's been 3 years. the simple agreement was, i think it would have been a victory for everyone. it would have been a win win win for russia. it would have been a win for ukraine. you know, russia would have withdrawn from most as a loss. ukraine could have had a 93 percent of it, so internationally recognized territory. and of course, russia likely would've been next the people's republic some that don't ask in lieu hands, but that would have been the end of it. you prayed, would have been neutral. it would have been a peace and it would have been a had true security just as it had from 1991 to 2014, when it was a neutral buffer state between russian in data. you know, buffer states protect both sides of russian would be protected against data

regression data would be protected against russian regression. and you know, we, there, you probably would not have lost 30 percent of its, of us population as it has done today. you know, on today the, the one group of people that are missing in this group equation are the ukranian people. we do know that for well over a year now and more than yeah, well over a year now, public opinion polls and ukraine and, and i'm sure it's not the freest environment to do public opinion polls. but a majority of people want a settlement. ok, again, a man that is no longer legally the president of your country is making decisions and that's even against the will of his own people. the yeah, of course the here, the premiums are not the 3rd at all. because the west is the basic closing down your brakes and losing out anything on the screen. so called democracy because the board project goes, the people will flood the countries,

but it's the price of the country are the people who left the army brain cannot lead because they don't want the money or afraid to leave the country because the borders was going to get shot and they, nobody's human that nobody's even the people who are abroad transport in europe. we're in russia. there's millions of ukrainians and russia are who are and i mean heard of that. yeah. very easy for you are being basically put to the ground and nobody's talking about them. i just spoke to a couple of girls last week from some boston journal and they're like, oh, we hate doctor grocery because he wants to watch those. so. oh so, so what is the situation the rest is i'm talking about with the russian federation, but i don't think i was wanting to talk about the real situation is tucker cos, i'm talking to the restriction of russia and talking to put me talking to france while you're not talking and show the situation how the brands are being sold as a dog to the fact why don't not be question. what do they want? the real piece be free, the one kind of pieces that are going to be controlled by russia in the rush left russia. that's what people say. we just one piece and get

a horse back and we just want a country to be developing back again. that's what they want, but the west is know that this was the rise of the didn't want to even talk about it because they are afraid of the truth because of the truth from top of the whole western. so called deep all the way the payment a what the i'm, i'm under a real, i'm literally glad you brought it up. i mean, a well over a 1000000, the thing is 1300000 ukrainians came to russia after the, as i most started. okay. i have never heard that in history where the so called aggressor, except uh, uh, people playing for a bit apparently uh, fleeing to the people that are pressing them. but it's never mentioned in western media and i'm really glad that you brought it up. all right folks, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue with discussion on you christ say without the blow. my name is joe, i'm a traditional catholic, father of 6 children. i'm from dallas, texas originally. all right,

my girls. what are you doing? by that time? many things had changed since cove it in america wants to talk about the eligibility propaganda and all that sort of thing. we think that we would like to move and live somewhere else to raise our children. 2023. my wife and i and my 6 children we moved to restaurant. really actually i've seen all these movies of russia being this dark, jerry plays and crass and everybody's starving. these are fish. heck, me and joking. so that's called the current and the russians loved pizza was what? it's like living in russia with a big family. the good and the bad, the pros and cons, expectations, meeting reality children who i can't. but the thing that i see here the,

it is long for years which schools combines elements of folly after bucket seats and be on trauma. but it is, of course with make it gymnastics, and in this episode of midland visions, we're gonna find out just $46.00 to be the best of the best. the. the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing ukraine, the okay, let's go back to karen it. okay we, i think we've kind of laid out the groundwork here about how to move forward. but as i said in my introduction, this is going to be very, very hard because to this, even with all the expressions of goodwill and wanting to get this done. finally, i have to take a step back and, you know,

look at our terms and conditions of engagement here is still here in the one the among people that want this conflict and they keep using the word ceasefire. that's not what the russians want. ok, trump wants an end to the conflict. well, i want the end of the complex, but for the conflict, the end, the security issues that russia has have to be addressed. it's just about going to be a ceasefire. it's not going to be november 11th, 1918. okay. that they even if it were that case, that it would be easy. but russia is not going to accept that. that's not going to accept a ceasefire. karen? yeah, no, that's, that is true. and i think got a lot of what's going on now with a long meetings and, and even the hectic schedule is, i think the trump administration is, has been, i think we know we can accept that they've been very ill informed about the situation and ukraine. he knows, i think trump the trump, people understand europe a little bit better,

which is why vance was so you may leading towards them when his meeting recently. but the trunk people don't understand the bottom line situation. they don't have a clear sense. i don't believe yet. of the cars that russia holds militarily on a battlefield, in terms of the economy in terms of their messaging, which is russia's messaging has been so remarkably consistent from day one on this whole thing, but miracles and certainly trump wasn't paying much attention to that. so his people with cost is not an expert on ukraine. he's a deal like a real estate guy. so they are trying, i believe, to understand the ground rules and, and certainly trumps all about momentum. yeah, but i think they're learning, they're taking the time to learn and listen. and also trump has other has other priorities beyond ukraine. i think in very much he sees ukraine as a problem. russia, if he wants to be friends with europe,

he wants to continue to you really 8 and exploit unfortunately, which is i'm not a fan of nato, so i don't mind that. but for, for, for europeans, this is a bad time for them. and that's a totally different issue than been killing ukrainians, which is something our us congress has been doing enthusiast equally well i, i wish i could have a share your sense, but when it comes to europe, the europeans are getting what they deserve. okay. they need a mass of wake up call. all right. and well, for, i'm not a fan of nato, anyone that watches program knows that, but i have to say care in that i am i gleefully watch the europeans destroy nato. not trump. it's the europeans that are doing it. okay. you know, when, when you're, when you're adversaries or an associate or a firing squad, don't get it, don't get in the way. okay. but that would, that'll be another topic for another program. david, do you worry that we, we may have uh, our expectations may be too high. oh, yes, a little bit. yeah, i think there is, there is a chance that uh, you know,

the neo cons and the truck ministration might overestimate. you craze. possession of us possession. uh, as is karen mentioned in a rush. it has been winning this war comprehensively. they inflicted probably one point. 1000000 the printing military casualties have the costs of maybe 2 150000 russians of which only under a 1000 have been killed. so, you know, russia has an extreme advantage $5.00 to $1.00 on a numerical advantage on most areas of the eastern front. and you know, it's important that, you know, i think the biggest area of dispute in any final piece agreement is going to be going through his ation. deep writing and military, you know, kellogg statements. where does that rate us? you know, we're going to build up the euphrates military modernize that after the war after a peace deal. and that's completely unacceptable to russia. you know, it has to be one or 2000. you creating a triple in mattresses. was indeed

a symbol agreement on the russian side. uh, maybe we can increase the size of the, of the more regard forces that are, would be non military. and if he cited conditions and we have to see the militarization of the, the for bloss. uh, you know, i think maybe that's one area that i, i hope that russia can concede to, to make peace, a little the line of control. but i, you know, i think trump does understand russia. he does a strategic empathy for russia. anders is made clear statement that you know us would never accept, you know, within the country a lot are borders. so i, i'm incredibly helpful of what i see. i think overall the truck ministration is doing an excellent job. and if that causes futures with our or client states and nato, i'm fine with that. well, you know that i, again, you know, it's so much is being talked about ukraine, but what do you crate in spring 10 ukraine? i mean, didn't use, it looks like the, you know,

at least the current leadership or people in power and ukraine. they want to move towards a european union membership. um, uh, and that's up to the ukranian people. but, i mean, did they do the, after all this has happened? do you think you crane can trust europe? i don't think the price, and that's us. anybody have right now at all in this situation, the pre solitaire is already have 2014. the promises of the sofa, all of the world geography union, and we'll start from trips to here and having talking to unit by parts single are now in the blood. shit. any praying, don't you? france understand, but they need to be just be where they are. it was ok, you have to hello. this is what the trumpet and restrictions thermostat and the western world grey. i see that i still own the company wants peace, is to start acting on it and start getting all the us into groups. i'll be frank. there's more than 60 of them in ukraine was proclaimed ukrainian for,

for front of the train load, sorry for war and the sofa assault. and that's the battalion groups for blood pressure. and then i start the sucking them today. so they have to do that, who they actually be trained at all, was the different sovereign comfortable that of course they do pray. she said that's i shall at least be great of all where to handle that situation. what branch are asked for the piece of the major thing i say to the roger because the whole war was started by the west. but by the pray into the source of your is the future for refrain, i think is not an option. you phrase up, but i that, but i think not only on today, but i think the ukraine may have a future if the us a id would get out of ukraine and stop meddling. i mean, you know, you tell you it's hard on the turn on bbc and, and out is here and they have this, you know, human rights lawyer. okay. that speaks pretty good english, he's blonde, she's pretty oh, she's on the payroll of us. a id where you're not getting the opinion from

ukrainians. you're getting it from the the, the foreign policy blog and the west that actually is against the trump administration. as we speak, okay, that's part of the route problem for ukraine. is it a we get a very distorted picture of what people think. and needless to say that jones that you can see on telegram. karen, we, we're talking before the program started. um 4 and a half hours, but that was the length of the 1st meeting and in riyadh and i'm, i'm pretty much bedding and you agreed with me. and i'd like to explain to our viewers that, that part, a good part of that conversation. if not all of it actually was about us russia relations. why didn't you, why were you agreeing with me? go ahead. well, i mean we've had this incredible of unbelievable gap in our us rest your relations with by and of course buying was not a, a confident, a leader of our country in terms of speaking to his fellow leaders. we know that, but there was also the, a very aggressive anti russian view throughout the button,

a government throughout the democratic party. and unfortunately, throughout the republican party you had bipartisan anti russian is um, uh, russ of phobia, institutionalized, for really over 4 years. so trump, uh uh, and of course trump was personally affected by this is his, uh, 1st impeachment related to that. and um, and i actually the landscapes people's lives. he's government, this is why is the landscape should be very nervous. you know, trump has some good features, but he also is the one who holds a grudge. he remembers people who have betrayed him. this is as loyal ideas, very important to him, and it's part of his success. and he does not trust zalinski at all. so pers, on a personal level, so this is a all of this has to be fixed, but yes, the rest of the thing is most important. um also trump understands uh, you know, with his greenland down, but you know, he understands raw materials. he understand strategic locations, he doesn't,

this may be from a real estate perspective, maybe as an american imperialist, if you want to call it that. but he understands that. and so russia accounts you talk to russia, you negotiate with russia, you under make sure there is an understanding with russia, ukraine, unfortunately for trump, for personal reasons, and political we is, is a historical reasons. it does not count for him. so these, these early talks are definitely about the bilateral relationship, which is, which is good because we have to do that before we can find out what's, what the ukranian people deserve. which is, please note that it's a neutral piece. it is a piece that doesn't threaten anyone, a piece that is profitable, you know, in fact, you know, we, we know pieces profitable. it really is where we talk about how much money you can leave. only a few people make money for more peace. everyone becomes wealthy in a peaceful fit, and by and you know, care, you know, care, and after all of the bloodshed and all of the violence, there is the, the, there is no hatred of ukrainians,

and russian russians don't hate ukrainians. okay. you're with a us a id help, ukranian spread, russo phobia around the world. but after everything that's been the last is on both sides, they're still not animosity towards ukraine and ukrainian people against people like zelinski. well, obviously that's different. david, you know, one of the things i, you know, going back to 2014, the origins of this conflict. everybody, not 2020 to 2014. you know, russia in the united states don't necessarily have to be friends, but they should not be enemies. i think that's more true now than ever before. go ahead, david. yeah, i think you're exactly right. so the, and that's, that's the greatness of president trump. is it in a single day, he essentially transformed russia from an adversary to arrive on a competitor, rape our competitor, versus an anatomy. and that's something we didn't see. and in the, by the restriction, in, in the whole key to us security is to as to neutralize the site or russian wise.

the way you do that is you be, is to be, have friendly relations with both moscow and vision and to, you know, increase investments and ties with the, with russia, with india to, and this, you know, talk about a new security architecture in europe. that includes russia with indivisible security, the benefits all provide security at all. this is somebody that russia has been been, uh, you know, uh, advocates, since that is the soviet union, the 1989. well, it, it could be, and you know, all of you. i mean, uh, historically, um, uh you all to is up a trail. i'll take you on the altar 2 point oh, in a new york minute. if it brings peace, all right, that's all the time we have fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guessing basil, mount jackson and in salt lake city. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at archie. so you next time. and remember pressed on

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to or by deceit. but they could not suppress the rebels and suffered devastating defeat. on january 1, 18 o 418 declared independence. the 1st one in the whole latin america. however, freedom was paid for with the blood of 200000 courageous haitians who had sacrificed their lives for the abolition of slavery on our planet. the events in haiti were the only successful uprising of slaves in history. when they not only through of slavery, but also scans of rules, they are state the that's too low for those. you don't know me. my name is joe, i'm a traditional catholic, father of 6 children. right. my girls, what are you doing? i'm from dallas, texas. originally, my wife, on the other hand,

is australian darling, and we've been married for about 8 years now. well, i suppose it's time for me to come out and say, it's september of 2023. my wife and i and my 6 children, we moved to rush out in general for this channel. what i wanted to do was to give everybody kind of a, on the ground idea of what it's like living in russia with the big same there fish . heck. mm. hm, yeah, yeah. okay, so that's called eco, and the russians love he did in the bad the pros and cons expectations meeting reality show now that i can just put the that, that i see here the we've had originally online uh, on a website. uh that was