the, the, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter level, the russians and the americans have made it clear they want to normalize relations after the disaster is bite in years. at this point, both appear committed to ending the conflict in ukraine. the europeans and the ukrainians are not at the table. neither burned to seat the

crust sucking the prospects for peace. i'm joined by my guess, got rid of written down, or he's a former intelligence officer and united nations weapons inspector. and besides that, we have people because they can use a professor of history at american university as well as co author with oliver stone, the untold history of the united states. and in berlin we crossed the rico yoshi is a professor of political science as well as co director of the european democracy lab or across the dock rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate, you know, scott, you know, i don't really want to delve into the chat or on, on twitter. it is so nauseating, it is. so beyond the point, it's all this, a genuine selecting to values instead of politics and geo politics. i have a very straight forward question for you. you're a man of history. what would be wrong with having the alter 2 point? oh, that would stop the fighting cause that's the most important thing is to have the

complex that stop. go ahead. scott is interesting. i is in crimea this time last year actually of january of last year. and i met with the governor of try me and a rush administrator for the fairs official. and i said, why don't we have you all to, to point out? in fact, that's what should happen. that's what needs to happen. a gathering of officials, united american, russian, european, ukrainian, to talk about reconciliation and moving forward. and they embrace the idea that i brought it back here to the united states and i hit a brick wall. there was no interest in reconciliation whatsoever. my understanding is that there is going to be something over you all to, to point know in march. i do go through this, this, this exercise who will be, it's not a question who will be invited. i think the russians will invite as many people as possible. the question is, who will be willing to attend? who has the courage to attend?

and that's always been the question. uh, oftentimes when we speak of matters of warrant peace, people equate courage to fight. it doesn't take a brave man to fight, as we've seen in ukraine. we can grab somebody up the street bunk. i'm on the head, put a uniform ottoman throw me to battlefield. that doesn't make that man a hero. the true heroes are those who will stand up in the cause of peace to those who were promoting more, those who will stand up in the face of adversity, of being condemned, etc. the peace makers are the true heroes. and right now for the 1st time, we have an opportunity for heroism to shy it around the world to bring it into this conflict. and y'all to 2 point, oh it would be the perfect uh, the perfect venue to do it. i can think of a better way, peter, essentially the same question too, because you know, every, there's a big uproar about who has a place at the table. why should you be at the table? why should you crane be at the table?

they don't want an end to this conflict. they want to continue with it. suppose to the, the, the, the venue in riyadh was due is well, us and russia to re establish good, good relations or working relations and to stop the conflict. ukraine in the, in the europeans are not on the same page. peter a, let me start off by agreeing with scott that the peacemakers are the true heroes. and i've also been given a lot of talks and interviews about you all to. and it's a good model, but what i see as, as the concerns and i have to talk you last night with my students about the over site, free the after world war one. and also if we look at the, what happened after world war 2, world war one, even side treaty fell apart pretty quickly and ended up indirectly leading to the

rise of hitler in germany and world war 2. and then world war 2. since they didn't have a endurable piece, it led to the cold war. and those weren't the inevitable in either case. but i think there was a lack of wisdom. and especially once treatment came to power. this is what after roosevelt died. i think we were on a course to our world war 2 world war 3 and it caused more. but for me, the question is, what kind of piece are we going to be able to negotiate? ceasefire would be a start, and we need a ceasefire, or we need an enduring piece that reflects the interest of all the crucial parties involved. now the united states has not, in any way respected russia, security interest for quite some time. now, we can go back to even before the cold war, and the united states has had a entries of russia as it added me, except for

a few brief moments when we work together. so i think what we need now in terms of the settlement of, of this war, i understand why europe is not included in the early stages. but at some point, europe is going to have to be brought in. europe has been a detriment to the peace. so far as that, and so i think we're going to need a kind of an understanding that's going to bring in all the interest of parties. we need a stable security framework zacko in that, in that with respects, brushes, and prayers. china's interest also you as your team and ukrainian interest, and i think we can do that or we get it's going to take a lot of statesmanship pull that off. yeah, i've set on this program for ever since the complex started. you have to go big and security arrangements for everyone. the indivisibility of security that is not even

been mentioned yet, but that's has to be considered. erica in, in berlin is, is europe, sovereign is ukraine, sovereign? because that's what i said in my introduction, but neither earn deceit at the table because neither one of them are sovereign. do you agree or disagree with that? well yes, obviously serenity is a big issue for your, for europe, and then it depends on what you define is you of. i mean, is this the you or is here of france, germany and other states and even the serenity question about germany popping up. so i guess, i mean the weakest element in the whole sort of chain is definitely the european union and to all the reactions to this piece supplement that mr. trump and putting in, visiting. so uh that is, i mean for me it's a tragedy. what is happening? i mean not that the piece is settled that i'm totally in favor of this and i'm very happy with the peace makers booking and from by agreeing on having these negotiations. but there is a point them, i think scott mentioned it,

that you must be or should be in somehow engage because would be really slips tried for, is something like and you'll be ukrainian, or russian say a piece ocoee picture. and we had elements of that. we had it in the means going into agreements uh, based the uh, is driving for a neutral and federal ukraine. we had adults in the couple fairies from and 191990 and the same page. i mean, these other concepts we have on the continent and it's old stamps. why do i get it? if i could interrupt here? i mean, the security arrangement that has failed was against russia and without russia. and that is the equation that must change. you know, the, that's what i'm saying, but that's what i'm saying. i mean, the whole ocoee picture that we have in visits in the, in the seventy's with a going by the boss. and what else? the bottom and kizusky that was then settled in o, c, d, and 92. the top health care is basically all this has failed. unfortunately, it has failed, but it has also failed because of the american intervention that we have seen over

the past 1015 years, at least. so they'll call me the big, biggest, most important point is whether europe, you talked serenity, whether europe could have and if so, how a sort of southern european stance that makes europe capable to build that piece order with russia. now instead it is quite, there's one, let me go to scott here, but this one word that hasn't been mentioned here scott, it's an a 2. okay, in 10 you're be sovereign in nato. they, at least to this point, it can't, it doesn't say and it doesn't seem to want it. let me throw that to scott a look. nato is a cold war artifact. it was created in different times under different conditions for different purposes. and since the collapse of the soviet union, nato has literally been a drift in search of emission. and also let me put it this way. natal only

works at the united states in europe are on the same page in terms of. ready as and objectives, even if those goals and objectives are flawed, which i believe they had been for the last decade in terms of trying to recreate a an adversary in russia. the justifies the continued expansion existence of nato. i disagree with that mission statement, but it worked for america, nato, as long as they both agree, that was the mission. and i'm just going to make this point right now. anybody who is seeking to build architectures of peace and stability in europe today, predicated on past relationships between the united states and europe. it's an exercise in futility. there is a revolution taking place in america today. and if you don't understand this, then you will not be able to comprehend what the future looks like. america will never be the united states that europe has thrown

a custom to those days are over. there is a revolution that is redefining how america looks at itself and how america interact in the world. there are many people out there who believe that this revolution could peter out in 4 years. and that american river return to what it was in the past. i think the level of disruption of the deep state of the establishment is so severe and so absolute that no matter what happens in the next election cycle, america will never the same. and if europe is hoping that america returns to, to what we were in the past, but they've made a fatal error. you know, normally when the, when we talk about american presidencies and foreign policy, the foreign policy changes usually reach culmination at the end of the 2nd term. here we have trump among that,

into the presidency. transforming not only how america views itself, but al america views the world and he will have for years to implement says well well, i mean, yeah, no town as we go to the break here. no doubt trump is in a hurry. okay. unfortunately, we're going to need patients to get peace. i'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue on our discussion on the prospects for peace. stay with our team. the many of us, again, is a to see us. we shouldn't have that us. do i usually to hans google bush just for boys names. i left them with many of us that will extend it. you live at this point and it goes to

a spectrum. your company was told that you live in the do what does anything you could with business name with general store and well let's, let's say stuff gave me is a couple of them really for me. so it's interesting that my web a new digit 5 years, you press menu immediately you to remember what the course are now. ok, so look up, let me, what do i suggest? we use those. let me go. but if you want talk to somebody, because i've got a mac the see was more snow and you have the welcome back across stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter little dry and you were discussing the prospects for peace.

the okay, let's go back to peter and besides that is the trans atlantic relationship in breach right now wherever return i'm kind of going the sailing off of what scott said in the 1st part of the program. it seems that the, the post world war 2 era has finally finally come to an end. there is a breach when it comes to security and a cultural one as well. peter. yes, this is clearly a, there's a breach, a fundamental bridge at the bridge. and in many ways that's as welcome to europe has been playing a subordinate role. your has victoria, along with us initiatives throughout the cold war and now in the post cold war. so this is a, a welcome moment. i'm not quite as optimistic as scott is about either the enduring impact or the positive attributes of this. i have

a much more negative view of the drum. and scott says, add a new order could be much more along the lines of web musk with his fascist alludes and embrace the a f d or. busy or what vance and the hex that they've been saying that now i do support trumps initiatives. when it comes to cutting nuclear weapons, i do support trump's initiative when it comes to reconciling the relationship with russia. i mean that i'm very, very glad to see this. and support in strongly on this, and i think it is changing the global architecture, a fundamental change of a sort that we haven't seen, you know, the, what the, when i look at what the u. s. policy has been toward russia, especially in the last few decades. i go back to brzezinski who's 1997 grad s board, where he talks about the strategy for a week, getting russia and making sure it's never super power again,

by resting ukraine away from russia saying rush, you will never be your raising power. but the world has changed, we're in the multi part of the world. and i think that we have to recognize that and begin to sit down and, and establish new security guidelines that represent the interest of all the crystal parties here. so i do want to say that, so i'm at that, that was talking about whether it's yadda or, or a broader summit. we have to include moti, we have to include little low. we have to include several others of the south africans because we need an enduring world answer to these crisis that we're facing, which is a global crisis at this point. yeah, i, i know the difference that the trump is a very diverse and figure that speaking the obvious here. i hope that he has the vision to do exactly what peter said. i tend to doubt it, but that's what we can look forward to possibly. okay, in, in berlin,

what are the europeans gonna stop talking about values and talk instead start talking about politics and geo politics? i mean, i, it's so exhausting. listening to these people. they don't, they never say anything crowd look, we have to have a meeting in paris. well, they decided to have another meeting after that meeting to plan another meeting. i mean, it's hard to take europe seriously. really. they can even seriously consider their own interests. well, you're asking the wrong person because i'm also hoping that they stop very soon talking moral and tomorrow's and instead of interest. yeah. but going back to the natal issue of the transatlantic relations being smashed. i mean, this is precisely the point. i totally agree with scott and was pete that we have a sort of really a breathtaking moment here to manage. and obviously as a european, we talk serenity. there is a question about where we live, where you will be if anywhere in all this sort of setting. yeah. and then you talk to me to and to, i mean,

but is this wording or floor is may keep the russians out. the americans in germany, don't you know, that was the role of nato. if we take that would today, the americans are going out and should be out. the russians should be in, i mean, in europe and not germany up, but europe. yeah. i think that is the vision we should have and indeed there's a multi point level to shape. and for me, the interesting question is that uh, i mean the interesting question. unfortunately, i think that europe is taking the wrong decisions. my call shorts, a maps, whoever would be the tenant chance left by next sunday, which is that it's that of seizing the opportunity that the americans are moving out and giving us the chance to build again a piece order with ukraine and russia. that we basically, i mean we've a, you pins are going to enhance the polarization, the whole to look after the munich security conference was about this. i mean, drama and tragedy. it'll pop up onto the same as sort of those articles are okay. i

mean we, you had the chairman of the, of the, the munich trash here. no, i'm sorry. he was crying. yeah. yeah. i trying like a child. i mean that what i mean, i can't, i can't disagree with anything you're saying, but i don't know where this is gonna come from. okay, well, what was, what, i'm sorry, what was it? it's a wake up call. no, it's a circuit breaker. that's what's going to go ahead. the problem is that they're still much of the penis type of spend and believe me, i was just bbc forward talking with somebody of the okay. well, things that the only answer that you have should give now is enhancing a weapons delivery at home, seeing major or your friends doing this poor, poor the, the troops border secuity, you know, the call we don't every, the, everything they, they talk about now. i think i mean for me and i guess i, i agree was pete and, and, and scott about this here. i think that's the last thing you should do. so that is, i agree with you, a huge sort of work to do, to change or to turn around the you can thinking on this because we think should

not be a whatever drama to this uh, that the americans are leading us. but seized the opportunity that this is a chance for europe is precisely to go silver and precisely to get immensely painted. so what i can tell you is that people, i mean i myself, am trying to build a sort of critical you team sort of a community was spend the odds and with that people and, and you telling me and i'm french people, so they are those people but we have been all pressed in a way because media winfree, you know, this, so it was hops, a sort of to bring these arguments into public tvs. but i think there's an opening now, and the more we can do about sort of spreading different answers to what it should happen now, for instance, is now a german move on new trinity. the is know a couple of, you know, it's them. intellectuals who signed the declaration on gender neutrality. so all this goes back to sort of what is the piece auda?

well, conte. yeah. a good thing. it would be for a if we're talking a e l to 2 point oh is to dissolve nato. then you can talk about being neutral, okay? in the things become a lot simpler. i agree, like, hey, scott, you know, i'm going to have to pour cold water on all of this. you know, i'm, i'm glad the us and russia are, are re establishing diplomatic relations. but the next step is going to be really, really hard. and i'm just going to give you a few words minsk assemble. ok, why? why have the russians going to trust this administration? i'll give you one word, trump. ok. if you don't understand that this man is unlike anything that says i want to, i agree. i mean even peter will agree with you on that and they will all agree on that or for worse. yeah, and i, i get peter, i'm not mugger. just so you will. i'm not, i'm not either. i'm not, i'm in the, in, in, oh this to delete or because the of another truck cheerleader. i'm not here advocating

on stating the fact. the fact is, there's a revolution taking place for better for worse. and my advice to the russians were watching the show is do not hold the standard of past performance of america up to this administration. this administration is giving you a once in a lifetime opportunity to change the way you work with america. take this opportunity and run with it. trump is destroying the establishment that hamper any positive movement towards us, russian relations that establishment is being annihilated as we speak. the department of justice, the said f b i, agents into my house because i dared write articles for r t has been a vista rated, has been eliminated. those prosecutors are gone. and those epi, i agents are fired. that is gone. the pedagogy has been ordered to reduce its

budget without any pre condition in terms of peace with russia. this administration is going into a completely different direction, you know, who we headed the negotiations in re, uh, you might think it was marco rubio. you might think he was backed up by monica watch, but the, it was woodcock. and you know, who is the most important man on the russian side. it was curiel demitria of why because this was about the economy. and here's my other word of advice to europe. don't ever talk about the military again, because you cannot play that game. you can't afford it. you don't have the capacity, it will ruin you. if you're a bunch of seed at the table, find your equivalent of trail demetrius sending to moscow. begin discussions right now, how about europe can reconnect with russia economically because it's going to be the economy that's going to lead the way towards bettering relations. trump has figured that out rush, i think understands that europe needs to get on board. and unfortunately, ukraine is trapped because it has become a problem that is solely defined by the military. and it will unfortunately pay the

brunt of the mistakes. yeah, yeah, but let's go back, let's me play or here. let's be clear here. you know, ukraine volunteered for this. okay. and you know, you, you, you play, you play stupid games. get stupid prizes. okay. i'm, i'm like the lease human loss is catastrophic. it never should have happened, but i'm not gonna let the ukrainian and lead off the hook. peter, we have ramos running out of time here. going back to the issue of trust. how do we get there? how do we start that process of building trust again? because i can tell you from where i sit, there's still 0 trust. go ahead as well. there's a long history of why there's so little trust. scott's confidence that they're going to dismantle, that they've stayed in a way that it's not gonna come back to life again. i hope he's right in, in most respects we build trust by following through on our agreements. initially we're going to have to lift the sanctions on russia. we're

going to have this. scott is emphasized economic ties. and that's a good place to begin. uh, we're going to have to take additional steps, the ones to be ready taken in terms of force and end to this fighting. and i'd love to say the trunk follow through and cutting the pads the gun. i, the chinese response to drugs discussion of cutting nuclear weapons was the arc, and you talked about america 1st. why don't be the 1st that you got the sign in front can do this. you know, we can do the steps that the united states can take. you to laterally to show its good faith at the and while it comes to the military, when it comes to our bases overseas. i'm just back from okinawa, when it comes to our military spending. when it comes to our nuclear programs that we can take you the lateral steps at the same time is really okay on the,

on the po have run out of time. i have a suggestion for donald trump, my 3 guest here at street. and they should be on speed dial the you 3 should be on speed dial for drum to get re i or the okay, we run out of time, right? so that's it. i want to thank my guess. and besides the berlin and, and delmore. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time. and remember, us talk rules. the, the,

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