of the so called uh, trump, ukraine piece initiative is um, it was very controversial with the tags that said in uh, honest europe and trip about basically nato membership is off the table for ukraine . the us will not commit troops. any european troops under the flag of nato will not have article 5 protection. and now we're going through this. absolutely absurd, ridiculous, rare earths, minerals, a dance which is absurd on its face. but personally, i think they're talking about that. so people don't ask about nato membership. i think it's a peer diversion. we're all we on this mark because, um i have to say uh trumps team doesn't seem to be a 100 percent on board mark. yeah, obviously there's some dissension within the administration, which is fairly predictable. it's the, i think the only unpredictable thing is that they're able to trump and,

and the people who want to de escalate. the us from the conflict in ukraine still seemed to be pushing forward successfully, even if there is dissension from kellogg waltz and a few others within the administration. it's happening behind closed doors. for the most point. i think that the europeans, of course, uh, and plenty of people within the us and the entirety of the west and mainstream media are on the attack against trump. there the accusation is that all of this that hangs, upset our concessions being given to russia before negotiations. even begin a betrayal of ukraine, etc. but i mean, peter ags of had the perfect come back. he said, this isn't concessions. this is reality. i. you are not living in reality. we are living in reality and what he's not saying, but he is a almost, you know,

completely implied is that the wars last we, you by we, he, me, they mean you because of course the trump administration wasn't uh, themselves directly involved in. but the west has lost this conflict and it's time to own up and recognize that the europeans aren't ready to recognize that yet. but i think the other important thing that higgs upset has said, since is he acknowledged that russia has superior already in terms of manpower and fire power, a significant advantage on the battlefield. and that no western a packages, no future western aid packages will be able to change that calculus. and that is all, most important, a real as the recognition of the reality on the battlefield, that no other western liter, you know, the exceptions or bon and fits. so have owned up to it is either or george, the,

the other penny hasn't really dropped because the good criticism, the peg 7. obviously the trump administration in general was that what concessions of the russians making no taking on board with mark just said, and i agree with him completely, but what i think this is all about unfortunately for the ukrainian people, not it's the lead. so it's never really been about them. what trump is gonna say now is that we've, we've made it very clear about nato expansion, american troops, etc, etc. no rush the you have to parlay with us on china, on a ran and then north korea. that's the next to drop here. it's obvious to me, george. i think that's right. because really the question is why has the been this reversal of us almost say that in the sense it isn't totally a reversal on trumps pop. it is consistent with his themes in 201526,

and it said, then i don't see why there should be a conflict with russia, russia it could be of apartments on and instead then brailey where it implies that the real adversary of the united states is a china then, subsequently you can go into the whole thing with the wrong and is to seems to be coming back to that. that is an immediate ticket. so he wants russia, as a partner, have been that the problem is that he's not going to talk to. russian said, look, we have given you everything that you desire. you know, we've given you the respect states us, we're going to treat you as our uh, geo political popped up. um, but we want something in return. we want you to end this war now. but in other words, you know, wherever you are now, you know, we, we want to cease fire now, and we want it done. and this is where to gets problematic for sure. because if

they, if it's a cx 5 now, and then there's still a lot of the goals that russia has yet to accomplish. and of course, are actually has unfortunate experiences coming to agreements with the west and the pos whereby, you know, everything's fine in a world friendly. and then 234 years later we've got another conflict. so it's a very difficult situation for russia to be and is clearly of this been like the norm is changing to and from uh, washington which is very positive. but then russian has to respond to that, because any, for us, it doesn't respond, then trump is going to turn around and say, russia is the problem. the europeans are right. russia was being always the problem . we need to then go back to the policy of escalate to go days. russia. yeah, well, oakland impeccable logic because what we have so far gentlemen, is that, you know, there's talk about ukraine. it either. it's in the,

in the center of the conversation around the periphery. but the only thing that is really changed beyond the rhetoric is that the us and russia urge are talking. well that, that's a good thing here. but the kind of echo of georgia said there the russians want some iron clad on paper signed notarized, witnessed documents about their own security, because we don't need to waste our time going through the litany of lies and deceptions a we, you know, we, the cool regime in 2014 was instantly recognized against all democratic norms by the west. then we had the machinations of the o. s. c e were just prior to the s m o. then we had the mens process $1.00 and $2.00, then we had is simple. well, i am going to little bit naymark. they want something more solid than that we've had in the past mark. yeah, i rushed is going to drag this out forever. and they've already given plenty of

science. they're glad they're talking right. they've got plenty of the deal with the u. s. on, but they've made clear 1st of all, they've pointed out that they have no one in care of that can sign anything. so trump team is actually seems focused on getting rid of zelinski, right. yeah, and that's going to be problem matic and rush. it can just sit back and eat popcorn . well that happens. they have don't want to cease fire and to be perfectly uh, i don't think they intend to stop the middle of the conflict in any way. shape or form any time soon they've got their book on the key. every james throat, they're not gonna pull it off. they're not gonna play that hollywood game of. i should have killed you when i had the chance this time. i think they're going to go all the way, and i think trump has made a couple of statements in the past week that show that he actually understands the position that the u. s. is in, in these negotiations and on the battlefield. he said that russia doesn't need a deal. they can take all of you crane if they want. he said that he also pointed

out that russia could have a bomb the key of into the ground. it could have destroyed it several times over and has no interest in doing so. and that's also true. and he also pointed out that russia has all the leverage all the cards and negotiations. he pointed that out because russia has already taken so much of ukraine's territory. so obviously trump is informed enough between that and the statements we've got from higgs of the trump administration is now aware of what a weak card they have. this statement by kellogg's, about bleeding russia, about the concessions that russia should make, being to break their alliances with china. iran and north korea are as fantastic all as much of a fancy. so the land scenario, as it is for the europeans to believe that they can still win this conflict,

they're both living and in fantasy react, all it is right. the russia understands that they can't trust the west, including trump any further than they can throw them. and if they did trust drop these down in 4 years, they're not thinking and in us selection cycles, they're thinking for the long term. i think what's actually likely the big rupture in geo politics. the big split that's likely to occur is not the special relationship between russia and china, or between russia and the ron. but the special relationship between the united states and europe, that okay, and that's exactly what we're going to talk about in the 2nd part of the program. i absolutely agree and towards a zalinski is name is popped up here. um, a lot of feet are being played out here and i, it's quite hilarious watching a peak zalinski again on, on twitter. most people there don't even have

a clue what they're talking about. but i mean, this is also kind of a diversion because it's for, instead of focusing on, they were military realities that the west is brought ukraine to with ukraine volunteering for this ridiculous deadly exercise. and now it's a battle of personalities. this is exactly the kabuki theater. the west always plays about the guy in the white house, the guy in the black, which is completely divorced from geo politics. george? no, that's right. any that is going to is, are you using that the media uh, full on blow. they're all singing from the same shape, but just we kind of possibly have electron snow elections and no possibility of elections in ukraine out of the question as a war on no election zone actually. but they seem to forget that they were elections in iraq during the war. there were elections in afghanistan during the war. again, you may know things that i have from the united states had an election or 1964. and that's exactly it is like the book sounds did not mean that you know,

people who are with, along with manner is out and then having new mobile x is during the war years. so people didn't have any problems. but it's amazing how everyone has this. uh, you know, the, everyone's thinks on the same. she gives us a talking point, and then every little bit, we're going to repeat that just like this. uh let's pull that was kind of came up on some uh the events that you that so i'm scared enjoys 57 percent approval and then let me know when you buy us a id. thank you george correctly. if you just pick it up and 57 percent, what political liter anywhere enjoys a 57 percent approval. well, georgie, if you did have 57 percent, why doesn't do you have election? big stock, but yeah, so, and so yeah, they're always, even though they're coming up with all of this, but it's not going to be easy to oust um the landscape because i don't know who exactly would replace the landscape. i don't know. even though the people who are being talked about is realistic. um, uh see goes, would be in

a way any better. i mean, the solution is obviously the one was being talked about, but i know the, the money i have time this block of the program. but who does have legitimacy, that is the question here, and that is something they're going to have to grapple with gentlemen. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break and that's about your break. we'll continue our discussion and somebody on the stay with r t the show they just don't have to shape house because after kids and engagement equals the trails, when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground, the

the, if you think about russia, what does your mind picture the landscapes open up before your eyes? the last one just can you imagine the, the, to scott stats, the journey, the, the, you ready to come along the,

the, the, the utilities because of the h a and you will, i guess will slow down them. awesome. so the is that bottle? is it on some last that is a fine, you know, the rest of your activity on the, on the stove we show you the solution. can you see is doing much to it the posterity mitchell senior team that helps to be a video couple metro city. let sure cool i seen movie as well, the additional se,

or the the welcome back to the prospect bullhorn. i'm peter without you mind you were discussing some real news mark, let's go back to you here in moscow. you already hinted in the 1st part of the program, getting a little bit ahead of ourselves, but what special relationships are at stake right here and i think you're absolutely right. it's the, the transatlantic one. but i have a long enough memory that, you know, it's been tested every once in a while, and you know, there's a lot of noise, you know, and not much heat is generated. obviously, this is something of a different magnitude. but because the europeans, the u. k. have um, you know, the base themselves so very much they have very few resources to resist. okay?

the only, the only real weapon of resistance they have is rhetorical, is looking at it, it's social media. but other than that, there is not much there and you know what gentlemen, they're just gonna fall in line because they have no other alternative mark. yeah, i think it's the big question, right? we've seen where the trump chaos bomb is going off. it's going off in washington dc against the bib state, and it's going off on the transit atlantic relationship right at the land. this is my work, or you could more specifically say natal, although it's not restricted to just the institution of nato. and trump not only doesn't have any interest in europe, he has contempt for europe. but for european leaders, he is obviously focusing his foreign policy evasion on coming to terms whatever those terms might be. with what he sees as the other 2 great powers,

russia and china, notice the europe, the e. u is not one of those great powers, therefore they don't really matter. and the europeans have obviously, the current crop anyway. have become a colonized by the idea of previously us exceptionalism. now, western exceptionalism to an even greater degree than the united states. now, at least with the new administration, they believe that they are morally structurally and societally superior to everyone else on the planet, including the united states right now. but for trump, it's more then i think a foreign policy decision, although i think that's obviously part of it. but it's also personal. trump, fields, v e, u liberal technocratic a lead. he hates all these, you leaders that came out supporting biden. and harris openly. storm are sending

operatives to campaign for errors. all this talk about trump proving their conflict, the ukraine. he despises them. he also despises zelinski and the key of regime in gen role because they were instrumental the involved in the whole russia gate hopes and peach meant attempt against them, the steel dossier, all of this stuff. he wants some payback. i think that trump much like he wrecked obama's j c p o way with the ron is set on the racking the ukraine conflict. biden's, you could argue there argue signal. so that's why that's why that's why i said in my introduction, george, i mean, at least a in, in this regard. it is, it's deeply, deeply personal with, with trump. he is settling account. so because is mark pointed out to russia gay to

the 1st and peach meant all had everything to do with ukraine and the same cast of characters are there. um trump is a no mood to reward these people. okay. at all is as a matter of fact, it was a he wants to show that he was the victim. all. this is really interesting. how may i get his adopted a victimization profile with it. but, and that's a program for an ideal for a different program. but it is personal for him. george, it is bust of old. and the question that really, um, we get it from years ago, the as days. trump has been a nato skeptic. however, you know, you know, again, those always a little older generational. remember, that'd be so many of these trends that land take rifts over the years. from the 1950s, with john foss at dallas, agonizing reappraisal. the idea is 6 days old to talk about nuclear, the coupling when you know the americans longer to sacrifice washington for do so the fund and then we, they get the 7 days, you know,

the americans aren't paying attention to as security and we, and then we haven't read them and every time, every time the europeans us, i don't want to ride. well maybe we should. um, think about a european security and defense that the mission of maybe europeans should take more interest and concern about this. it good. the american does have come down like a ton of bricks, the, how data you talk about any kind of separation relates to you know, map, lenovo, bryce fame is 3 d. no d coupling. no duplication, no discrimination. and trump himself in 2018 when the macro and stopped and mumbling about, well maybe to your been should do morgan on the day you take care of this? a care of it is a don't you even death? think about that. we americans, we came to your rescue, you know, 1st, well, we'll look into your skin. the 2nd level, you know, they, we, we won the cold war how day you think about separating from us. so i don't think it's going to happen. i think your of is very, very useful for america, that it's a way that america project is power in the world. it's how it gets to be

a global power and bowl is everyone around what he wants when we are about whatever is to focus on your up to me in your room so that the americans can concentrate on china. so it's really kind of a division of labor and so the europeans memo going to, they don't want to step up, you know, they that have to give up the 6 week vacations, a universal health scare. uh, you know, guaranteed incomes that very, very comfortable live. so that you were being, is enjoyed. so they're not going to do anything you know, to stop, you know, despite all the top, they're not going to do anything about their own security. so i just think whichever way this ukraine debacle resolves itself, i don't think there's going to be a split between america and you're it's, it's very interesting mark because there was a bentley with the advent of the 1st trump administration. the 2 percent of g d, p spending on defense was a the new benchmark. now he wants to up the ante to 5 percent,

which is extremely unlikely and, and probably depth to bit detrimental. but i mean my, my inclination about his always been the drums and people around him that i agree with them. say, if russia, if is such a threat to you, then why don't you spend 5 percent? and then they're going to come to the realization. well, maybe they're not that big of a threat. i mean, i think he's forcing them to make that decision. i tend to agree with george the, there's a lot of people that are really excited to the cheer leading the end of nato. and i'd like to see the end of nato, but i don't see it happening any time soon. mark, i think it depends. i think every thing is on the table now, right. i've had to do some serious assessment here. and a lot of it depends on what happens even personally between trump and european leaders. if they're smart and roll over and show their bellies to trump, right. he was still won't have any respect for them. but you know,

they might be able to last through the next 4 years. if they do what zelinski has done over the past week, ran the openly challenge and insult him back then. anything is really on the table as i think it's more important. what happens after trump, those ged vans succeed him, then he can carry on? if not, then the us can go right back to the role that they had with your you know, 4 years before. so i'm, there's a lot still on the table. but i think another important thing with all of this is that all of these last 8 years of, of a liberal attempt, both in the united states and the intelligence community. and then europe and the media to try to use the issue of russia are imported, or trump has always had a degree of respect for poor and right from the beginning as

a strong leader. but they tried to paint him as the puppet of poor, right. they tried to paint him as a trader, as, as, as, as just an instrument as an author or carry on like they call boot. and, and i think all of that has blown back in a big way old on russia gave attempt to slurred trump has actually pushed trump into a bracing russia in a way that he might not have before. and so i think that in trying to, to the, legitimize trump with russia gate, they have created a trump pool monster of their own accord. what do you think about that judge? because a lot that i'm o uh, of avid viewer, a breakthrough rachel mad out. should that she's back on the rush of russia rush out horse right now, and i find it very quick odd because it didn't really be a garden or any dividends for those people,

but that they really don't have much left. i mean, they have zalinski as their liberal hero. there's a lot of people that still walk around with masks. i mean, cobra was one of their sacred cows as well. so it's not going to be, it's not giving them dividends. maybe you're both right. doing it, there is going to try to outright trump. i don't know george. when he gave how strongly david is. i mean they did in 2018. they. they won the mid terms. they impeach him. they had mala investigation, and that weakens trump is low question. the 1st um of trump was a failure, and it was a failure in large, but because of russia gave, he was thrown off balance. he couldn't really get his bearings. he pursued a very anti russian policy, including sending lisa weaponry to ukraine. so it didn't deliver something, it doesn't. what do you want them to do? of course it didn't destroy a truck, which is what they were hoping for. but now, you know, all these years later i,

i don't think it's going to achieve them of very much. but i think it's gonna lock mark is right. clearly trump is now angry and is pursuing the policy that he might not up to see what had it not been for russia good. we'll also see what happens. generally, when you or of is under the control of the gum, sent the left liberals relations with the united states, a fraud. and so even these policies may not change that much. you get so center, right? people in power in your they really shows will improve not for as of the games and germany and we have john, so shaw. and so i think it's going to be replaced by matt sounds those months is even more focused on russia then. um schultz is, but i suspect to be able to get on trump's wavelength more than show size. i mean it's, it's good trip to trump just kind of get along the style and kind of talk to people like shoals and style. my and my crowds go up with somebody like muds, the,

you know, the kind of going back to the days of hell would cold grade. he's a christian democrat, he's a conservative, and it will be some kind of communication. so it's not necessarily the question on, on russia is just as you will have a way of communicating with him that he didn't have with the shoals and doesn't have with micro stomach. well, the finish off gentlemen. i hope you hope it's the mean trouble to everything that from his personal but um security infrastructure is about far more important things . the, the european security architecture is in, in disrepair. it's in tatters. and i don't know if we were going to move any closer to fixing it. um, fixing us right. rush relations is one small step. so we'll see. it's all the time we have gentlemen, when i think my guess in budapest, in here in mosque. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our d. so you next time, remember across up rules,

the look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. the robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to makes a trust rather than fit the various. i mean with the artificial intelligence we have summoning the theme in the robot most protects this phone existence is alexis. the

last one of the stickers, all simple, still attending the following thing, but it is all since eastern reward, i think on your solutions. somebody shot me and most time i don't know most things are the most of an on say that i'm available on the insurance card. what's gonna be the solution of each national event from your company? my gillian much does up. i want you to commute there. so process was do you, this could be covered by scale if hand deal that i was gonna shut down there. so it says william says it,

but the heads of heads up the you in the united states and the you, you put forward comes p thing. resolutions on the ukraine conflict this monday with members. i don't think both from top or amendment sort by brussels was of a to washington's dropped much to the lockers and noise, or rush his own voice stated in new york, who spending in the way of trying to ignore the fact that the winds of change and a clear demand for peace has been full with the only obstacle being the key if you set up a and is europe and accomplices. of course, during the war time, yukon have elections. many countries have in their constitutions point so that you can't have direction. you official escape from others lensky, a pos on holding.