the, the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. germany selections offered up some surprises. the alternative for germany searched the left, garnered a stunning result. and importantly, voter turnout was high. with the final result. the next ruling coalition will be the same status quo parties and their policies. not exactly change the

cross talking the german elections. i'm joined by my guess going to rebec in london . he is an e u lawyer and a farmer, a, a fee member of the european parliament and hanover, we have, i got a month, he is an economist and political commentator and assemble, we cross booth headaches are a lamar, he is a historian and political analyst. alright. prospect rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want and we so appreciate, let's go to our guest in london, gunner and i mean, you know, there was a lot of hype around this selection, that obviously a lot schultz, which i have called sergeant schultz on this program for years. he got what was coming to him. his party had its worst results since the 2nd world war. he deserved it. okay. they have to be did really well. a little bit less than the expectations doubled its vote. and this party, the left came out from left field as it were here. but at the end of the day, nothing frankly changes the color legs. it will be the same old tired coalition parties that we've seen off and on since the,

the end of the 2nd world war. so what was the selection all about? a hutch. i agree with every one you've sent, the dea has done well, not quite as well as it may have hoops and cd you has one of these and actions because it's 10 days it would change its policies in a number of battery, as i'm rather skeptical whether they will, um, we have a familiar configuration, a so called brand which, which is grand. it would be in the sense that uh, there's 2 bodies which participate in once a by 5 and not just actually down to the non good, but they justified scrape the majority in parliament. they feed a government on their nose and a frequently together for the best part of the 20 years. and my prediction is

that they will be a slight change in policy not so much because of his will. ready and because they wished to change things because the spot seamus, monday around did show up the they will change a few things, but they won't be nearly enough to restore job and use economic fortune a fortunes. so my thought of prediction is that germany will um, the price is the job they will continue. the journey will continue to decry economically, possibly as an accent already to pace. ica and in hanover, again the winner, the christian democrats, they achieve their 2nd worst result in their history in that and they're the winters. explain to my viewers out. that is paul. it sounds like a the labor party in the u. k. go ahead. the yes, the, the people voted for

a change, and this is why all these old parties will stand for these. that was group deep stayed whatsoever. you call it a, they don't want this anymore and the people wanted to change. but in the west, when you look at the picture, how the people voted, you can clearly see that the, all these more socialistic parties like the socialistic party or the green party, they have lost dramatically even in the west and the east, any way. and in, in the west you have mainly cd who is the wind out and in the east we have a f, d y. the people want a change and they don't get a change because in the west they don't get it that with it's a who there is no change. it's the same. it's the same. people who go to double is who get their orders in these us in these groups there. and that's what the people's thoughts to get rid of, but they don't. but in us they as

a new sheriff in town at jd event, said, and there was a big class in the, on the munich security conference of that the, even the us doesn't want this downturn policy anymore. and now it's getting really, really tough. because i don't see the cdo changing anything especially not having the left arm of the socialist party is the only remaining correlation partner. so basis what, uh, what is the, the big, big, astonishing thing about this people will be furious in a very period. yeah. and particularly since so many more new voters went to the polls topic um, you know, i looked at the electric result map and you know what, i'm sure you're not going to be surprised. what these the borders of the d d r. i mean, i think the, this looks like of a going into the past study. yes, i mean, right now the situation is that if you look at the map,

the i have data is dominant in all of the form i use that to them and it's not as strong a dominates the. but as in the fall of my wisdom and they have mostly nodes, they do have some speed they, that's all the map looks so that the problem with that is, and i be frank about. so some of the very left string pressed by of who free of sympathy for the united states. but i've always been that meant that you cannot prohibit it. and the other thing is that looking at out of coalition building isn't for you to kind of be unfair and is basically the gates, the voters of the are they to the 2nd rate voters, right. this is what's really happening, but you can vote for it. but even not really that it into the level of the parties will actually allocate government power to each other. the constitution and jeremy doesn't for see anything like that, your homes find the to them fire or in the constitution. it's for very good reasons

. so what is happening here is that by looking the if the out, whether you like the day or not, and i mostly don't. but by looking them out, you polarize the country, and you polarize it. as long as the old line between east and west is that silent and my view to be honest, governor, they go and stay with this theme right here, is that dissent is not welcome didn't german politics? the german political culture of the old parties does not agree to dissent among the voters. go ahead but yes, i agree. i mean they say something comfortable so, so far i've agreed with abc, nbc one settled the program so far. i think that's an app to novices. i reach them and push for politics. has to be built around the idea of approved for a majority consensus. that's i think, all very well in times of economic prosperity. that's right. is this time. so the

results are at policies, most policies that web ex should be all that good said seal. they appear consensual . you should because she present to do you know, in libya, to be an interesting, lori done to us now. but there were actually radical policies as a visa divided the country. a people i know fearful they are fearful in terms of a internal security which is fair to be broken. diamond johnny and that fearful of uh, sustains uh, economic decline and big parties that are not applying for the process is building a new golfer. but uh they just way listen to them. uh, they will continue. uh, rely and implementing. uh,

the old calling. yeah. okay. well i, i don't have problem with consensus that's, that's good in the democracy here. but i mean just as it was pointed out, i mean this consensus politics is good when there was prosperity. ok and but why should these consensus parties be reinstalled in decline? this is manage decline. let's say it guys, it's managed decline icon. yes. well, i'm not totally agreeing with the with this because most people don't feel the decline yet. it is a decline that and the companies closing down those companies in very to be up situations. but the ordinary people don't really feel like no, i think the main issue was that in the form of east germany, the people know already every redeem that the sensors that gives those with a police to people who have a different opinion. who um,

who goes to expel those, the boats who are taking the forest, the police force and the techs authorities do to fight against political opponents . those people know already this how this. busy works out, they really don't want this in the west. they never had this experience. they still believe that city or like being uh, being humble and saying, no, everything will work they of the conservators, but they have nothing to do with a conservative party. of course, i didn't know of any more, nothing and comment any more. and the big problems uh, just about to arise because now we go into the down to economic downturn. and this is getting really, really, i mean gentlemen, you know, putting, i mean with, with a, they have the being shut out of power. is this just the greatest campaign slogan for the next part of the entry elections in germany? we're not part of the problem. go ahead. yes, i mean look,

they have the right now can only profit one way or the other, right. i the, they knew who in the spit they won't be able to greet. i think they will because they have to. and then the day is coming back and they really agree and have says, grand cause this is a grand coalition. good. so from says located people that be able to get frustrated and for us to just have a more and the id is now the opposition, right? the other pockets, but the day is now the biggest part in the position and the bit like my reading the pen. yeah, i've dave of profit by the old system displays is weakness and the fact that it's called actually passing. so the next election bush and you want to be in 2029, but i don't know if you even get there. keep in mind that this was already a snap election, right? this is most of my blacksmith came out of a government breakdown. but if i may add one thing real or something, i don't know the topic. i want you to hold that thought because your thoughts are

always worth listening to. and i don't want to cut you off. i will cut myself off by saying, well, hopefully the only silver lining is that we will not have any more and, and lead a better bach. okay. we're going to, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the german elections today with our team. the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so charters at conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient . we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously is to trace a truck or rather than fit the various jobs, i mean with the artificial intelligence we have summoning the theme in the a robot must protect this phone, existence was only exist the,

the, the, the, the utilities. because then you take the car to annual, i guess will slow down. awesome. so the cars that bottle is it on some last that is if i knew the rest of your activity on the, on the stove we show you the solution can you see is doing much to it. the customer

lives here. so i'm seeing you in the show state video. couple natural. sure cool. i seen movies. what additional se? the welcome back. across stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you were discussing the german elections the okay, let's go back to assemble to our dear guest studies you were making a point and i didn't want to cut you off. so going ahead, so in terms of the economy, the 2 things i would say is, i personally believe that the german economy can only get out of its carbons very

deep structural crisis said the knowledge is, this is not in the ordinary recession. if 2 things happen, one is they have to be of us a desperate, and i don't think this call list. i'm going to be able to, to give us a debt break because they don't have a majority to change the constitution that they won't be able to get the opposition to go along. the 2nd factor is it would have to repair the relationship with russia . so that gentleman industry can draw on inexpensive energy again and also open up markets and corporations with russia. and again, the problem is that maps the leader of the christian democrats is stuck in the 1990s, if not in the 1980s. he is a very old fashion, cold warrior, and he doesn't show any signs of wanting to repair that relationship. it's probably opposite, unfortunately. well, since merits name is been brought up, let's go back to london gun there. he's mertz. he said he thought he got on election night. he talked of the need for europe in independence from america. i

mean, it's a black rock guy. okay. i mean, he hasn't been in politics, formal politics for a long time. i mean, what is he talking about now we're looking at, well, g, i grew up in the mid, you clear the do teach between the objectives of a case that you are p at each ration and goods. uh, uh, todd semantic relations. and we know how this is a and generally, i think there was 2 of the americans wanted to see more european integration. and they saw the contradiction between that objectives and a well integrated western. i'm not the trump, i think we have a different situation. at least for the time being that the be a,

these objectives didn't appear to come inside. well, perhaps to illustrate the point just made a match doesn't seem to realize that he thinks he can uh, reinvigorate 8 or store a tons of magical nations or number lines in which they exist, state before and the same time. but if you ever close. so european integration at it so far as he sees some kind of difference between the 2 ease, ease of a close sierra b. and it's gratian as a us, uh, uh, as a way of compensating for slight people. 1010 years relationship between europe and countries. and the us, well not of this will work because we can't restore things the

way they were 25 years ago in the european stay off 52 weeks to act it. well, we get an idea of that, but that was by design. okay. that was by design like a one of the 8 of what germany needs of sovereignty. okay, before it needs to take the next step here. this integration thing, that's a deflection. it's a deflection. okay. i mean, we've seen it with the competing in ukraine. the europeans can't get out of their way. they don't have in a unified industrial base. i could go on and on and on. and that is why there is this rip right now. and because of the lack of sovereignty and having an independent foreign policy, all of europe pays this price ica. yes, well, we have the 2 problems at least 2 problems here. the number one is that the europe, the into european project, the european union is on the brink of co ops, because when germany is going down, works with a germans. economy is going downwards. the, the you,

europe in union has not so much to plunder any more because the european union does nothing else, but the plundering, come up against germany. so when the victim is done, then it doesn't make sense for the of us to stay in that club. so this is number one, number 2 is a freight privilege maps doesn't even have his own party in an under control because all of a sudden mrs. macro came up and it just see it in the last the boat elections within the stock for this migrant problem. then to finish match doesn't want to change anything and he doesn't even stand for the, for the new powers in the circle. deep stage which is being dro, uh, we're just being a fault in, in the us. so he is for an outdated in network that is the event is going to be on out and to the european union has it,

it's time is over they, they got to and him to, they got the, they, they lost their credibility, they lost their credibility and rush out because it means cancel on these agreements, but he also lost the credibility with the new government and the united states. and that was very obvious on the munich security conference. so we have a pro, we have a, it should be a problem, media and the other european partners panicking more and more. and when he doesn't get to the, the money out from the gentleman techs pay us, then many things in europe will now come ups because they spend more money than they were allowed to. and know they want to hear something that the, that when the illegal but she doesn't get this. so i'm totally in line that this next correlation won't last very long because it does. it's not only because it is no change, but because they are part of the problem and not the solution, and you need solutions that you need quick solutions and you need to be a solutions. and this is what all both super powers around us have already said.

and what the rest of the world is, is telling nicely those bullet jason's to yeah, well it's headache. it seems to me that at least within the german context, if you ask for solutions, you're just called a racist and a nazi. i mean that whole rhetoric, a rhetoric is so self defeating, but i want to, i want to broaden it out. teddy can mean, you know, with this selection and keeping in mind what happened on sunday, and, you know, you would have europe that caused russian enemy possibly now to united states as an enemy. and the europeans are not getting along very well with china. really good place here if it's spot itself and has it a catastrophe, obviously, and that's not only as we'll talk about temper playing with the trump is. i mean the, the u. s. s. it to, to germany and europe was up. it has been lot stream to bus blowing up, right. as a you opinions, that was the classic a case. it was a u p and show that they had absolutely no spine at no autonomy left. that's what,

that's the last moment when they should have defended themselves against the americans. and now it's too late to put the city is that now is seeing the beginning of what of it, i think is going america and the russian. great understanding that the town to oh and the europeans are being left out of it. high and dry and to come back to mass and hits people. but i hear from maps this talk about in making you independent of the us. that smoke goal isn't. he doesn't need to make you are pretty independent. he means to build sort of a small way to investigate in europe. it's atlanta system this out in atlantic, clotted perverse construct, right? in which i think you, this is dream that somehow driven a maybe with drugs providing news can replace the united states as we were being lever. that's insanity. it's the work of cause it boots us through in the country

even more quickly. what, gunner, i mean, what we're getting at, as we speak here, is that because of europe, mistakes and error again. so we're getting a you all to a 2 point. oh and, you know, given the circumstances that's, that's so bad. go ahead in london. yes, it's not so bad. it'd be on a p is all if the principal unit b and states actually started to find a workable solution, which i agree with. it is a business that nothing is on the table yet, or they have not seen a box where i differ is uh, i think this function, the arrangements and we currently have dysfunction. arrangements can actually, uh, last, much longer than most people think. i think some of the, the decline and uh, no one will let you do anything about it. i mean,

germany today is not multi was a 100 years ago. yeah. the rates. uh, i think there's a very serious prospect that germany would simply be politically immovable. that the ac will continue to be excluded. that the website becomes stormy, not to assert itself without the aid of any other. right? i think i, i could disagrees with you on this point and i want to give him his word on this. we're rapidly running out of time. go ahead ica. yeah, um, well i think of the f d, we'll get strong enough. we have already observed majorities of s, the participants in the eastern part. and i think the worst on we'll learn it to be is especially because this new correlation, whoever it will be with a chris and democrats will, won't last a very long, but we're on the pathway to get deal, pull that to go a new dimension. and this dimension will be that we will get you raising uh,

free free trade zone from the spot to ride the bus stop. and they're unique politicians in germany who are able to talk with both sides and square footage. matched is not the one talking with both sides anymore. and the cd who in the s b dates they have. so they have destroyed to so much credibility that you need new people at least for, for a while. i can understand, but these are all politicians don't want to go away because they have committed so many crimes. if you look at these corona politics as a know, spring to things and so on and so on. and of course they don't want any body else in power now to be able to, to go for it. but this will happen anyway. it will happen from the us. it will probably happen from other sites, maybe even within europe. the time for change is there, and a yukon step is yourself be against these movements and you get even with,

with any tricks, what they are still doing. what, but, i mean, i, i think all of us would agree, there's some nuances here, obviously, but that's that as quote, it has failed and it will fail if it is continued to be in power here. um, germany is following france, following the u. k. we need a resurgence and the voters are gonna say it one way or another. it's all the time we have gentlemen. absolutely fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guess in london hand over and of course and assemble. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t. see you next time. remember, across black roles, the, the,

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