to yes, we're also known in the world as items dealers that we must not be ashamed of that the, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter level, the russians and the americans are talking again. the media is about as about ending sanctions. the europeans, as usual, are angry, confused, and divided. in short, there are high expectations about dramatic chains. so where is the trump piece plant?

the cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, steve, jeremy and courtney. well, he has retired royal navy commodore in rome. we have thomas bobbsey. he is an author as well as i call him this for the british and heard and the american compact magazines and, and like jackson, we crossed to daniel mcadams. he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity. hard gentleman cross lock rules in effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated, daniel, because you got up early as for the program, we very much value your presence here at this early hour. and speaking of ours, you know, i, i have a different time zone than you guys. so every time i wake up in the morning, it looks like there's a difference, a piece plan. there's no peace plan. there's many rules. there is bilateral relations. nothing much about ukraine yet, daniel. well, i think it's a big problem. the deputy for administer. russia has been saying this week,

we have cost that we haven't seen a piece plan. we don't know what the piece plan is. i mean, on the one hand, but rather sanguine about the seemingly positive turning relations between the us and russia. we've talked many times. peter, when we were on the verge of nuclear war and it doesn't seem we are that way right now. so there's something to be grateful for. however, um i think the are in coate signals coming from washington, particularly coming from trump himself. so exactly as you say, what is the piece plan? we know that later in the week, the working group will be meeting in eastern boil and we don't know exactly what's going to happen. but this week has been a somewhat confusing when i have to admit when it comes to us pressure relations. you know, steve, it's, it's very interesting we had have, during the sunday programs in the united states, we had steve woodcock, which a parent appears to be a trump. uh, at large envoy. he said to the american people, it's not a surprise to anyone on this program or anyone watching this program, but he,

he pushed back against the pieces this that the conflict in ukraine was provo unprovoked. and he said, you know, and then we had a peat, haig said, say, well, it's more complicated than that. that is a see change. i mean, that is in credible because what i have argued on this program for 3 years is that all the west has is framing and narratives. is divorced from reality. reality is seeping in here, but i don't see where it's going beyond bettering bilateral relations. and as daniel was said, that's a good thing. that's a very good thing, but it's not enough. go ahead, steve. oh yeah, no, i was uh welcomed um, access comments, reboot with go to some to critical. that was the patients i see the american suppressed was uh from uh, there is the that she no longer see them as an engine morning. well, where i was about to point out alone understand when not multiple well the refer, read, read power. so the 3 of us ones, each of them are nice talking, so it's

a welcoming thing that choking. um, i think in terms of the young provide, and that's what i think this to set something to send the past the rosario, so i cool the streaming neighbors who are expansion is to believe that the war was nothing to do with the worst nation or expansion and that actually it started in trying to switch to a little bit on your back to the main level, each other the realize. so we're showing one way of voices of the willingness until recently. but where the people have been saying this started back in 1996 or so when jordan came and said that it was the biggest from this mistake, it price for history for the rocks eastridge found on the european storage path and go all the way through going through to the chicks. there's lots of different plans for the rebel through. um the uh, the pill pants is the means. the telegram probably depends on how much space to get

your missional. so of course, this was was as it is what the problem, the feeder is, but the west has been guided by a political narrative, right? the rush has been got a 5 on a true structure. and unfortunately the people are pulled into the plan for 2 reasons. are as far as i can see, the rest so nothing. well, yeah, and that's it. it's good. it's a problem and it's a problem. it's only going to get worse here. i mean, i have a plan, i'm going to be send out a plan. i'm in negotiations, you can just do that so long as we go to thomas and in room. you know, as i've said, you know, the bettering of relations between russian united states is a real, really good, a change, but you, it's not solving the ukraine problem. the crate ukraine dilemma for both the united states and russia here. and, and one of the criticisms i would have of the approach here is there too. it's too many voices or too many people talking in the us on the west side here. it's very confusing and donald trump is his own worst enemy when it comes to this because he

says conflicting things, thomas: yeah, think of everyone else. i'm feeling positively bipolar these days. actually between for optimism and and pessimism. so as the other guess, upset, of course, having an american president on the other as american officials acknowledged that the back yard use of this war. and that this was provoked by nato. and i would add even deliberately provoked, and it's of course, a huge deal and a big step forward towards achieving a piece. because only wants to acknowledge that the other side is not motivated by a rational, crazy impulse is, but actually has actual concerns that need to be address the brand environment where you can sit down around the table and try to address the concerns of all sides. so this is definitely a big deal, but i think, well, a lot of people are underestimate is that this is only the fast towards achieving a piece. i mean, the road to piece remains very long and tortures that i think. people are on the estimated just how difficult this will be because region pc ukraine is about much

more to just acknowledge you russian control over the next territories. something to trump even seems willing to concede, and it's not even just about stopping nato expansion. but from russia's perspective, it's about much more of this is about deeply reform in the international system. it's such a way that great power proxy was a proxy complex lot. the one was seen in ukraine, elsewhere, don't repeat in the future. so this is about, i'm really, really finding the global balance of power and you know, for the us and west, more in general to accept the multi polar nature of today's global reality. and even allow for the peaceful rise abuse centers of power, china, of course, but also russia and in this sense, yes, we've had positive statements old. so kind of acknowledging the multi polar um, reality of today's world from key trump. yeah. administration officials. but i still think that, you know, trump remains young, this is my greatest warranty for holding to a southern side of supremacist and hedge, a monic view of american power. and even more importantly, at 0,

some view of international relations. why the relative decrease of mountain power due to the rise above the power has continues to be seen in terms of a threat to america is kind of vital security interest rather than just the fest have to move to america just becoming a normal country. and i find this, um, i think this is probably the biggest obstacle to was reaching a long time satellite because i couldn't, i couldn't have said it better that you're absolutely right. because this is all about a big picture here. daniel, let's go smaller picture for a 2nd before we go to the break. is there again in the west and even among the trump team a cease fire is acquainted with peace. there are 2 very different things are actually not the same at all. daniel, what exactly the problem is the order the americans are concerned? are it seemingly because it changes every day peter, assuming they are emphasizing the need for a cease fire 1st. russia has said through it's student students, it's one minister lot of robin others. this is

a non starter. we're not going to do mincey again. we've been there, we've done that. we're not going to do it again. the us is, is insisting on this maybe something that they can show to the press. see we've gotten something done. mean, i think for us or this is as we, as they've said, clearly this isn't as a central award. this is something that is part of our national survival strategy for the us. it almost seems at times like we need that we need to put one up on the wind board for us. so let's get this thing done. come on guys, do piece. if you don't, there's going to be a problem. and i think that's a real issue. and i think that president trump has had a fairly bad week this last week in this i think ceremony where he claimed he took credit for giving the job and he said the war would never have started if i was president. oh, and by the way, i got the war started. yeah. because i guess that was, it wasn't able to skip the french, terrible, terrible nightmare performance. and it wasn't his only this week. so it's, it's actually quite this type disturbing to hear him say that. yeah. it is, steve,

i, i don't know i'm, i throw a lot of shade on this minerals deal like, i think it's a side. so i think it's maybe a diversion about not talking about nato, but i mean it, at the end of the day, this whole, the minerals, an investment thing doesn't make any sense if there isn't any peace and ukraine. go ahead steve. i feel like i've seen this property right. so the i work in the offshore energy sector now off to march 1st and i think there was a lot to be search for countries corporate and commercially. so the fact that actually the margins of the russians are talking about commercial, commercial discussions in mind here is a good thing. i'm not saying that it's going to bring a piece to kind of cool. yeah. but but, but steve, it's not the center of things like, oh, i absolutely agree what we're talking about, but it's not stopping the conflict that that's my issue. keep going or yeah, no, i think in terms of stopping conflict as has been said,

this is going to take time or if you've been to or, and you know that again, there was not much fun and it's going to be very, very difficult. i but to think we need to, to understand the longer it takes them to the less but ukraine and you will have to the guy say, because rush reside to the side of national security interest, which is what i would do in that situation. and they will keep going until they true wherever i should go to secure what i will call this a secure order. i told i can 2022 the way that the property on the finish would be russian words. if it could not pointing the bridge, the guy said will get up so near for rid of this is that what you friday for a natural strategic defense fund? and then i'll have a question mark which i still have to test. but yeah, this is good. thanks a lot, but the 1st, very much to put in where i can send the russians are talking are kind of size time for this or so. i may feel a bit trapped by months, but it's much better for talking to blend. she's become a rough, not so much. you just have to be patient difficult, which is when you see it will be

a necessary puritan going on. yeah. and now all of the chaos that's happening in the western world, particularly nato, and what's going on with the european elections. i mean, there's a whole lot in the mix here and no one is on the same page at this point, or a gentleman, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine, trump and the peace plan. stay with our to the of wanted to come here since i was $121.00. my grandfather told me that his mom came from russia that we were, i was part russian. i didn't plan on staying as long as i was gonna look around. i was gonna see if it was for me, but then i came and then i was like,

i don't remember when i go home. i've never been happier in life than i am here in russell the i've only lived here a few months, but i wanted to tell you what fascinates me about russia and shared the stories of other foreigners who lived here like jay who worked as a chef and now raises goats and mix cheese in the countryside, can like chat, who's been granted political asylum because he's being persecuted by the f. b. i us, embassies. and for countries that come after me it's, it's wild like an american family that recently moved to russia with 6 children. i've never felt safer atlanta, higher life than living here. the welcome back. across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to mind you were discussing trump in the piece plan and you create

the okay, let's go back to thomas in room. i can, i just have this deep seated feeling watching the last couple of weeks from since the payments phone call. okay, let's, let's start there. thomas, who is trump trying to do reverse mixing? goes to china. and is this about you all to, to point out because i in trump is so, you know, he doesn't have a grasp of the details. he is, is his grasp of the ideas are getting better and better, but details history. it's not his forte. he's a deal maker as everyone knows. and the deal he wants is some kind of, it's already been mentioned here. so i'm kind of global deal. maybe he saw a short documentary on the altar, and i know he's obsessed with china. he's been obsessed with china since the 19 ninety's. this is what this is all about, thomas. i think it isn't part partly what it's about. um i think uh the idea

that you know, he might be trying to. busy uh, you know, an exit strategy and move us. uh, i think has some value to it. and in fact, this thing, cadillac himself is said, so instead as much. and he said that, you know, he expects russia to, uh, you know, move away from china and that, that should be part of the deal. and uh, you know, honestly i see this strategy as um, as wanda is likely to fail 1st and foremost because catalog as well as other, you know, uh, trump and boys. uh, neither of them is next. and um, so i think uh, you know, they failed to realize the importance and some of the historic relevance of rushes eastwood shift. i mean, this is not, this wasn't just something that russia decided on a whim. i mean, this came on the heels of, you know, i would say almost 2 years of the, you know, the end of the cold war of russia trying to integrate into the west and via into the transatlantic sphere. and, you know,

just having to door shot in his face. and so that, that's basically what the, and the home and a did in the 2022 invasion of ukraine, which was russia, you know, as russia's way of telling, well, you know, okay, i realize that there's no way of peace of really reforming the system. there's no way you're going to allow us into the system. and so we're gonna, you know, we're going to do it some of the way we're going to force the other major powers to, to, to, to change the approach international relations. i'm some extend. russia has, has succeeded with this as well where now, but of course, when you see trump, you know, wanting to use this as a moment to kind of, you know, read a fine or have a geo political round bog. and in the, in the us interest, right. it in the rushes interest you read. 1 is that, yes, she does seem to be kind of, you know, miss reading the room because, you know, if it's pretty clear to everyone that the, you know, the us and nato have lost on the battlefield. but that means that then you can't

really, uh, you know, you know, impose the conditions for, for, for peace and, and i think out and yes and in this respect um, it says it's hard to be optimistic. ready because uh, i think, you know, this is about accepting that, you know, we have thrown russia into china's arms and vice versa. something that, you know, was for a long time was, you know, something that way. well, you're avoiding this was one of america's overarching priorities. right. but this has something to come you with us the overnight and i think accepting not only does it should, does it west in the us have to upset the multi polar nature of today as well. but it also has to accept the fact that the, the west is sidelined in this new and in this new well because the other 2 major blocks and very good friendly terms, blotchy faxed to us. and i think the, i don't know the way of addressing that is not true and you know, blackmail and it's not true. i still know i'm trying to strong, i'm rush. so anyone else? but is it, you know, this will be a long process. what west finally,

jo status do humbly admit. you know, it's, it's the side of the re imagines is spelled into re imagine its place in the world so well, put, daniel, is that possible? you've been on this program since the very beginning, year, and we've talked about had gemini and the empire tenant learned differently. can the old empire learn some new tricks? i mean the, at the end of the, that's what this is all about, daniel. i mean, from the perspective of american exceptionalism, what's happening now is either colossally brilliant or colossally stupid. and it goes to the next in china think there are plenty of realist and no offense to realistic out there. i'm not one of them who believe that getting a deal with russia is very important because the united states military machine has to pivot towards china and to a lesser degree, lots in america. and so they want the same game in a different area, and they believe that that russia is, is a country they can deal with a get out of the way, put that off the list, and do the real focus over here. i think that will be

a disaster for the us and it will not work because as you've said, this is a different world than from stepped into in 2017. the world has changed partly because of the us foreign policy, which tour degree has pushed countries together that have not been as close as before. russia with the, with iran and saudi arabia, particularly on the other hand, maybe it's colossally brilliant. maybe the american exceptional list are getting are getting put in to once again, kicks that football that lucy has teed up and fall on his rear end, which may actually be the demise approved. and which is the end all goal of the neo cons in the us and the american exceptionalism, the us to find the take down prudent because i do believe that if he takes the bait from the west again as he's done several times and it goes down as it will then maybe the end of putin. well, i mean, i'm steve. obviously russia wants to have good relations with all countries. i mean that that's perfectly natural. but the,

the going back to what daniel had to say there. and it's already been mentioned on those program. there's not going to be another mince process we've already been there. we have seen that and put who is heavily criticized toward within russia itself. they're not going to do that. i mean, what trump is asking is, you know, russia to take yourself off the board for awhile. well, the russians are not going to do that. everyone knows that, steve, is this not going to happen? i mean, nothing. be serious. the weather use leave that the west has failed, support the defeats or advice be defeated. it appears perhaps a by some people that need a tree, right? so that's that, that is the case. so we're not in a position where we've been america. big take, take terms of rushed out and that's the problem. so we construct type tons of the problem is trust. and this is something brooks to, to write about. so i think during the time it is sort of what i what you

see if you look back through history of the accounts of them that starts on this dentistry. as far as i can see what they think it starts in 2022. yeah. what you say is, is the americans with questions uh west is withdrawing. you can actually from the prophetess and then test constructed all control features options. and then of course the minutes brings the publicized search with that. and of course there's, there's a pool and a chair, the americans and the british persuading, so that you don't to sign. so i think that the russians read or suspension. we've got to ask that there is a that we will need to frame to build up trust type of time. and that when come true, the consultation approach to future relations for got to leave bases, confrontational, 6 versus to architecture in europe. this is month for about 12 percent of secure sags right. and well, um and, and, and thomas, the current security arrangement in europe is,

was done without the russians and against the russians, which brings up another point we're talking about big global changes and edits is wide open. what could happen? but i have a deep seated feeling that the transatlantic tradition is coming to an end, which would be a good thing in my mind. thomas? oh yeah, it took me to bring more just no, show not. i'm not so sure what's actually happening. i mean, um, yeah we've, we've mostly spoken about the us today, but i think he'll a huge obstacle piece today is your up and, and european countries which seem to have got swept up in their own propaganda in a way quite amazing. you know, they seem to have, you know, told them to tell that people have told us citizens and down to does for 3 is a, this was about democracy and sovereignty and etc, etc. you know, they, they repeated that. so, you know so often that it, you know, it's as if they now started believing that themselves which would explain the shock act from, you know, tiny town and to table, you know, as if they're like, wait a minute. what's happening, you know,

as if they truly believe the propaganda that it was coming from washington and even from their own selves. you know. so i think guess, you know, we may be, you know, need to time, you know, it was a result of psychology to some extent, to explain what's happening here because a lot of it, i think, is very rational on, but i think uh, yeah, we should, honest or may of course, people are right when they say that your con deal uh without the us uh, continue to uh, allow ukraine to continue fighting for that line and certainly will be able to allow you agreed to receive any form of us success on the battlefield. but it can seriously hand any, you know, the piece dogs, i can, you know, on this war mongering and feel monitoring rhetoric that we keep hearing from you are purely, it is, is uh again, you know, that we've mentioned trust. i mean, i think yes, whatever to whatever truck little trust that you rush or may have a visa be to us, i think they, you know, they trust your even less you're today is this is you know, how,

how could anyone trust your current leadership? i think that this is a huge, huge problem and, and you know, they seem, you know, positively deranged in many respects and it is, um, i think, you know, very, a very, very serious issue. and um, when it comes to trying to hang, hang on, let me, let me give the last words then who i mean, staying with the europeans here? i mean, i think they're more upset about being wrong then not being able to help you create one minute. go ahead, daniel or no, i think, i mean i, i liked that my colleague has said, but i actually believe that europe is losing its grip. and that's why it's turned into force. that's why it's arrested georgie eskew and romania this past week. oh yeah. oh that's. it's absolutely terrified. people like it of victorville and, and rubber seats. so in many others that are emerging, i mean things go a little bit more slowly and you up in the us when it comes to electro politics. but look at the victory the off day in germany that the people of europe are literally holding up their middle finger to their leadership right now. and the

leadership is in full panic mode. the one indelible picture in my mind is the european sitting in paris and the kids table and mark router sitting right there with them saying, we're so mad that we're not invited to the big kids table i. e put in and trump speaking. so i think europe is losing its grip. it's going a little bit more slowly, but it's, i think something that's inevitable. what uh we have about 15 seconds more. i do think the electoral process in europe will continue the trend that we've seen from france buquet in germany. go ahead, daniel. i think yes, but slowly i think judy debt, judy vance has done a great service to freedom and liberty when he lectured to europeans with something i normally don't like telling them we are not sharing values anymore. look at what you're doing. you're suppressing the desires of your people, the expression of your people. i think that will go down in history is one of america's finest moments. well, we'll hope so. and i hope that somehow will end this conflict in ukraine because even on this program, we don't see the road map just yet. here as all the time we have gentlemen,

i want to thank my guests in cornwall room and, and like jackson. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, prospect rooms the, the with the end of world war one. the move in for an indian independence from the british empire flared up with renewed vigor. the british responded to the growth of the national liberation movement with arrest and brutal violence. repression cause active resistance. in march 1919 at the call of mahatma gandhi,

a peaceful strike began in the country. but the british responded with a new round of violence and far bade the indians to gather more than 4 people on the day of the sea bass at key festivals. by a huge crowd of civilians gathered in the center of the city of i'm to start in northern india, seeing these as outright defiance. general reginald dyer gave the order to open fire on the on arms people. the barbaric seduce and claimed the lives of at least 379 indians, including 40 children, the youngest of who was 6 weeks old. the indian national congress considered the official figures to be underestimated and announced the death of more than $1000.00 civilians. the well known greatest newspaper, the morning post called dyer, the man who saved india, gave him a sword and 26000 pounds sterling as

a token of gratitude for the massacre. the amorous star massacre wind down in history as one of the most brutal crimes of the british invaders and only escalated the affair. struggle of the indians for liberation from the colonial yoke.

the the of wanted to come here since i was 121 my grandfather told me his mom came from russia, but we were, i was part russian. i didn't plan on staying this long. i was gonna look around, i was gonna see if it was for me that like it, maybe i'll look at some properties come back in a few more years after i'm retired and then just finish out life in russia. but then i came and then i was like, i remember when i go home, that's how i felt about rush. i love it. i love it so much here that i don't even want to leave. i just want to travel around rush, i have no desire to go to any other country. the i've never been here in a row, so the i've only lived here

a few months. but i wanted to tell you what fascinates me about russia and share the stories of other foreigners who lived here. like jay who worked as a chef and now raises godes and makes cheese in the countryside. like chad who has been granted political asylum because he's being persecuted by the f b. i like an american family. that recently moved to russia with 6 children the year. we are happy to be here. this is my friend joe. a few months ago he immigrated to russia with his large family. now i'm on the way to visit him. i want to find out why he decided to move here and how he likes it in russian