every time i wake up in the morning, it looks like there's a difference, a piece plan. there is no peace plan. there's many rules. there is bilateral relations. nothing much about ukraine yet, daniel. well, i think it's a big problem. the deputy for minister of russia has been saying this week we have cost that we haven't seen a piece plan. we don't know what the piece plan is. um. i mean, on the one hand, but rather sanguine about the seemingly positive turner relations between the us and russia. we've talked many times, peter, when we were on the verge of nuclear war and it doesn't seem we are that way right now. so there's something to be grateful for. however, um i think there are in coate signals coming from washington, particularly coming from trump himself. so exactly as you say, what is the piece plan? we know that later in the week the working group will be meeting in eastern boil and we don't know exactly what's going to happen. but this week has been a somewhat confusing when i have to admit when it comes to us pressure relations.

you know, steve, it's, it's very interesting. we had there during the sunday programs in the united states . we had steve woodcock, which a parent appears to be trump. uh uh, at large on boy he said to the american people, it's not a surprise to anyone on this program or anyone watching this program. but he, he pushed back against the suspicious that the conflict in ukraine was provo unprovoked. and he said, you know, and then we had a p tag said say, well, it's more complicated than that. that is a c change. i mean, that is in credible because what i have argued on this program for 3 years is that all the west has is framing and narratives. is divorced from reality. reality is seeping in here, but i don't see where it's going beyond bettering bilateral relations. and as daniel was said, that's a good thing. that's a very good thing, but it's not enough. go ahead, steve. um, you know, i was uh, welcomed um access comments remotely go to some to critical that was the patients i

see the american suppressed was from really there is actually no, they don't receive them as matrimony. well, we're going to move on to hold alone an essential and multiple well the refer read, read the house. um the 3 of us ones. each of them are nice talking, so it's a welcoming thing. that's ok. i think in terms of the young provide and that's what i think this to set something to send the past the reverse, right. cool. the treatment neighbors who write expansion is to believe that the war was nothing to do with the worst dates or expansion. and that actually it starts, it didn't turn to switch to little bit on your back to the main mileage, although the religious. so we're showing one way of voices of the willingness until recently. but where the people have been saying, i've just started back in 1996 or so when jordan came and said that it was the biggest from this mistake, that price for history, for the storage found on the in europe in storage path and go all the way through

going through to the chicks. there's lots of different names for the rebel or, um the, uh, the phil ben susan. yeah, means the telegram probably most based in detroit, michigan. so of course this was, was as it is, what's the problem there? peter is, but the west has been guided by a political narrative where as rush has been gotta buy on a true structure and unfortunately the people are pulled into the plan for 2 reasons are as far as i can see, the rest so nothing. well, yeah, and that's, it's good it's, it's a problem and it's a problem. it's only going to get worse here. i mean, i have a plan, i'm going to be send out a plan. i'm in negotiations. you can just do that so long. really go to thomas and in room. you know, as i've said, you know, the bettering of relations between russian united states is a we, we really good a change, but it's not solving the ukraine problem. the crate ukraine dilemma for both the

united states and russia here. and, and one of the criticisms i would have of the approach here is there to, it's too many voices or too many people talking in the us on the west side here. it's very confusing and donald trump is his own worst enemy when it comes to this because he says conflicting things, thomas: yeah, think of everyone else. i'm feeling positively bipolar these days. actually between for optimism and and pessimism. so as the, i guess, upset, of course, having an american president on the other as american officials acknowledged that this, the idea of the back yard use of this war. and that this was provoked by nato. and i would add even deliberately provoked, and it's of course, a huge deal and a big step forward towards achieving a piece. because only wants to acknowledge that the other side is not motivated by rational, crazy impulses, but actually has actual concerns that need to be addressed. the create an environment where you can sit down around the table and try to address the concerns

of all sides. so this is definitely a big deal but i think well, i don't. busy on underestimate is that this is only the fast towards achieving a piece. i mean, the road to piece remains very long and tortures that i think people are on the estimated just how difficult this will be because reaching piece and ukraine is about much more to just technology rush and control over the next 3rd trees, something to trump even seems willing to concede, and it's not even just about stopping nato expansion. but from russia's perspective, it's about much more of this is about deeply reform in the international system. it's such a way that great power of prophecy was a proxy complex, right? the one was seen in ukraine, elsewhere, don't repeat in the future. so this is about the really read of finding the global balance of power and you know, for the us and the west, more in general to upset the multi polar nature of today's global reality. and even allow for the peaceful rise abuse and has a power china of course, but also russia and in this sense, yes, we've had positive statements old. so kind of acknowledging the multi polar um,

reality of today's world from key trump. yeah. administration officials. but i still think that, you know, trump remains young. this is my greatest warranty by holding to a southern side of supremacist and hedge, a monic view of american power. and even more importantly, at 0, some view of international relations. why the relative decrease of a mountain power due to the rise above the palace continues to be seen in terms of what about a threat to america is kind of vital security interest rather than just the fest have to go to america. just becoming a normal country and i find this, um, i think this, this is probably the biggest obstacle to was reaching a long term satellite because i couldn't, i couldn't have said it better that you're absolutely right. because this is all about a big picture here. daniel, let's go smaller picture for a 2nd before we go to the break. is that again in the west and even among the drum team, a cease fire is acquainted with peace. there are 2 very different things are actually

not the same at all. daniel, what exactly the problem is the order, the americans, arkansas? are it seemingly because it changes every day peter, assuming they are emphasizing the need for a cease fire 1st. russia has said through its student students, it's one minister lot of robin others. and this is a non starter. we're not going to do minsky again, we've been there, we've done that, we're not going to do it again. the us is, is insisting on this maybe a, something that they can show to the press. see, we've gotten something done. mean, i think for us of this is as we, as they've said, clearly this isn't as a central award. this is something that is part of our national survival strategy for the us. it almost seems at times like we need that we need to put one up on the wind board for us. so let's get this thing done. come on guys, do piece. if you don't, there's going to be a problem. and i think that's a real issue. and i think that president trump is had a fairly bad week this last week in this i think ceremony where he claimed he took credit for giving the job and he said the war would never have started if i was president. oh, and by the way,

i got the war started. yeah. because i guess that was, it wasn't able to skip the french, terrible, terrible nightmare performance. and it wasn't his only this week. so it's, it's actually quite this type disturbing to hear him say that. yeah. it is, steve, i, i don't know i'm, i throw a lot of shade on this minerals deal like, i think it's a side. so i think it's maybe a diversion about not talking about nato, but i mean it, at the end of the day, this whole, the minerals i'm investment thing doesn't make any sense if there isn't any peace and ukraine. go ahead steve. i feel like i've seen this property right. so the i work in the offshore energy sector now off to much less naples. and i think there is a lot to be search for countries of corporate and commercially. so the fact that actually the margins of the russians are told to back commercial, commercial discussions in mind here is a good thing. i'm not saying that it's going to bring

a piece to kind of yeah me but but, but steve, it's not the center of things. i absolutely agree what we're talking about, but it's not stopping the conflict that that's my issue. keep going. yeah, no, i think in terms of stopping conflict as being said, this is gonna take time or if you've been to or, and you know that at the end of it's not much fun and it's going to be difficult. i . but to think we need to, to understand the longer the types, the end of the less but ukraine and you will have to the guys say, because rush reside to the side of national security interest, which is what i would do in that situation. and they will keep going until they true wherever i should go to secure what i was quoted as a show or i told i can charge you 22. the way that property or french would be russian words, if it could not pointing the bridge, the guy said we'll get up some new for rid up because that would slide a very natural strategic different spot. and then i'll have a question mark, which i still have to test. but yeah,

this is going to tell you what the 1st break most americans and the russians are talking are kind of besides what this is. so i may feel a bit trapped by months, but it's much better with talking to blend. she is big. oh rather not so much. you just have to be patient difficult, which is when you see it will be a necessary to it and going home. yeah, and now all of the chaos that's happening in the western world, particularly nato, and what's going on with the european elections? i mean, there's a whole lot in the mix here and no one is on the same page at this point. alright gentleman, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. trump and the peace plants they with are the

or the the at the end of the 19th century, africa was divided between european empires, which mercilessly oppressed the indigenous population. modern day tends and he used to be a german colony. the germans levied heavy taxes on local drives,

and use them as free labor on cotton plantations. professions protest turned into an uprising against the colonial list under the banner of the religious movement of the magazine. margie, it was led by a man named kinsey to the rebels used guerrilla tactics, because they did not have the power to grasp the german army in head on confrontation. but the germans were not able to suppress the resistance of the guerrillas either. so the invaders decided to starve that population to day. one of the commanders of the german troops kept in wagon. heim wrote only anger and one can lead to final submission. military actions alone will remain more or less a drop in the ocean. the blasphemous plan works. the invaders burned villages and fields. in 2 years, germany deliberately starved up to 300000 people did that later. the monstrous

experience of the 2nd right in tanzania was copied by the 3rd right, led by the nazis in order to extricate the peoples of europe. the welcome back across stock were all things are considered on peter level. true mind you were discussing trump in the piece plan and you create the to go back to thomas in rome. i can't, i just have this deep seated feeling watching the last couple of weeks from since the famous phone call. okay, let's, let's start there. thomas, who is trump trying to do reverse mixing, goes to china? and is this about you all to, to point though, because i in trump is so, you know, he doesn't have a grasp of the details. he is, is his grasp of the ideas are getting better and better,

but details history. it's not his forte. he's a deal maker is everyone knows. and the deal he wants is some kind of, it's already been mentioned here. so i'm kind of global deal. maybe he saw a short documentary on you all to and i know he's obsessed with china. he's been obsessed with china since the 19 ninety's. this is what this is all about. thomas. i think it is in part partly what it's about. um i think uh the idea that you know, he might be trying to. busy an a nick, some strategy and with us uh, i think has some value to it. and in fact, this thing kind of himself is said, so instead as much. and he said that, you know, he expects russia to, uh, you know, move away from china and that, that should be part of the deal. and uh, you know, honestly i see that strategy as um, as wanda is likely to fail 1st and foremost because can. busy as well as other you

know, trump and boys. uh, neither of them. ready nixon, um i think uh, you know, they failed to realize the importance and some of the historic relevance of rushes eastwood shift. i mean, this is not, this wasn't just something that russia decided on a whim. i mean, this came on the heels of, you know, i would say almost 2 years after the, you know, the end of the cold war of russia trying to integrate into the west and via into the transatlantic sphere. and, you know, just having a door shot in his face. and so that, that's basically what the, and the home and a did in 2022 invasion of ukraine, which was russia, you know, as russia's way of telling, well, you know, okay, i realize that there's no way of peace of really reforming the system. there's no way you're going to allow us into this system. and so we're going to, you know, we're going to do it some of the way we're going to force the other major powers to, to, to, to change the approach international relations. i'm stomach stand. russia has,

has succeeded with this as well where now, but of course, when you see trump, you know, wanting to use this uh, as a moment to kind of, you know, redefine or have a geo political round bog. and in the, in the us interest, right. it in the rushes address, you realize that yes, he doesn't seem to be kind of, you know, uh, misreading the room because uh, you know, if it's pretty clear to everyone that the, you know, the us and nato has lost on the battlefield. but that means that then you can't really, uh, you know, you know, impose the conditions for, for, for peace and um, and i think out and yes and, and disrespect um it says it's hard to be optimistic. ready because uh, i think, you know, this is about accepting the, you know, we have thrown russia into china's arms and vice versa. something that, you know, was for a long time was, you know, something that way. well, yeah, avoid. this was one of america's overarching priorities, right. but this is something that come you with us the overnight and i think accepting not only does it should as

a west and the us have to accept the multiple the nature of today as well. but it also has to accept the fact that the, the west is sidelined in this new and in this new well because of the, the other 2 major blocks and very good friendly terms, blotchy faxed to us. and i think that we know the way of addressing that is not true and you know, blackmail and it's not true. i still know i'm trying to strong, i'm russia or anyone else. but is it, you know, this will be a long process? what west finally, jo, stuff do humbly admit. you know, it's, it's good that inside of the re imagines is spelled into re imagine its place in the world. so well, put, daniel, is that possible? you've been on this program since the very beginning, year, and we've talked about had gemini and the empire tenant learn different. come the old empire, learn some new tricks. i mean, a database. that's what this is all about, daniel. i mean, from the perspective of american exceptionalism, what's happening that was either colossally brilliant or colossally stupid. and it

goes to the next in china think there are plenty of realist and no offense to realistic out there. i'm not one of them who believe that getting a deal with russia is very important because the united states military machine has to pivot towards china and to a lesser degree, lots in america. and so they want the same game in a different area, and they believe that that russia is, is a country they can deal with, get out of the way, put that off the list, and do the real focus over here. i think that will be a disaster for the us and it will not work because as you've said, this is a different world than trump stepped into in 2017. the world has changed partly because of us foreign policy, which to a degree has push countries together that have not been as close as before. russia with the, with iran and savvy rate, but particularly on the other hand, maybe it's colossally brilliant. maybe the american exceptional list are getting are getting put in to once again, kicks that football that lucy has teed up and fall on his rear end,

which may actually be the demise approved. and which is the end all goal of the neo cons in the us and the american exceptionalism, the us to find the take down pollutant. because i do believe that if he takes the bait from the west again, as he's done several times and it goes down as it will, then maybe the end of putin. well, i mean, i'm a steve, obviously russia who wants to have good relations with all countries. i mean that that's perfectly natural. but the, the going back to what daniel had to say there, and it's already been mentioned on this program. there's not going to be another mince process we've already been there. we have seen that and put who is heavily criticized toward within russia itself. they're not going to do that. i mean, what trump is asking is, you know, rush it to take yourself off the board for a while. well, the russians are not going to do that. everyone knows that steve, for the 3, nothing be serious. the,

the weather use leave of the west has failed or been to research or advice, be defeated. it appears clips are basically preventing a tree, right? so that's that, that is the case. so we're not in a position where we've been america. big take, take terms of rushed out and that's the problem. so they, we construct type tons of, you know, the problem is trust and this is something groups to, to branch about. so i think during the time it is sort of positive way to um what, what you see if you look back through histories and by significant some damage starts on the start history. as far as i can see, what they think it starts in 2022. yeah. what to say is, is the americans weston's west. those withdrawing you can actually from tacitly profited in terms of constructed all control to choose the option to change another course or the minutes pregnancy, the problems associated with that. and of course there's, there's a cool and uh,

chevy and americans in the british persuading. so that you don't to sign. so i think that the russians, reid bush, especially, we've got to ask that there is a that we will need to frame to build up trust type of time. and that when come true, the consultation approach to future relations for got to leave. they says confrontational, 6 versus to the architecture in europe. this is much for about 12 percent of secure, satisfied. and well, um and, and thomas, the current security arrangement in europe is, was done without the russians and against the russians, which brings up another point. we're talking about big global changes and edits. it's wide open. what could happen? but i have a deep seated feeling that the trans atlantic tradition is coming to an end, which would be a good thing in my mind, thomas? it's oh yeah, to bring more. i'm just not sure. i'm not, i'm not so sure what's actually happening. i mean, um we've, we've mostly spoken about the us today, but i think he'll

a huge obstacle piece today is your up and, and european countries which seem to have got swept up in their own propaganda in a way quite amazing. you know, they seem to have, you know, told them to tell that people and told us citizens and day out that is for 3 is a, this was about democracy and sovereignty and etc, etc. you know, they, they've repeated that. so, you know so often that then, you know, it's as if they now started believing that themselves which would explain the shock act from, you know, tiny town and to table, you know, as if they're like, wait a minute. what's happening, you know, as if they truly believe the problem again that it was coming from washington and even from their own selves, you know. so i think guess, you know, we maybe, you know, need to kind of result was or to psychology, to some extent, to explain what's happening here because a lot of it, i think is, is very rational on, but i think uh, yeah, we should, honest or may of course, people are right when they say that you're a con, deal uh without the us continue to allow your brain to continue fighting for that line and certainly will be able to allow you crate to achieve any form of success

on the battlefield. but it can seriously hand any of the piece dogs, i can't, you know, this war mongering and fail monitoring rhetoric that we keep hearing from you are purely it is, is uh again, you know, that we've mentioned trust. i mean, i think yes, whatever to whatever trump little trust that you rush or may have a visa be to us, i think they don't, they trust you or even less you're today is that is you know how to build, how could anyone trust your current leadership i think this is a huge, huge problem and, and you know, they seem positively deranged in many respects. i mean, this is, um, i think, you know, very, a very, very serious issue. and um, when it comes to hang, hang on, let me, let me give the last words down the hill. i mean, staying with the europeans here. i mean, i think they're more upset about being wrong then not being able to help you create one minute. go ahead, daniel, you know, i think, i mean i, i liked it, my colleague has said,

but i actually believe that europe is losing its grip and that's why it's turning to force. that's why it's arrested judge ask you in romania this past week. oh yeah . oh that's, it's absolutely terrified. people are kicked of a victim or bon and robert feed. so, and many others that are emerging. i mean things go a little bit more slowly and you're up in the us when it comes to electro politics . but look at the victory the off day in germany. that's the people of europe are literally holding up their middle finger to their leadership right now. and the leadership is in full panic mode. the one indelible picture in my mind is the european sitting in paris and the kids table and mark router sitting right there with them saying, where are so mad that we're not invited to the big kids table i. e put in and trump speaking. so i think europe is losing its grip is going a little bit more slowly, but it's, i think something that's inevitable. what uh we have about 15 seconds more. i do think the electoral process in europe will continue the trend that we've seen from france. i buquet in germany. go ahead, daniel. i think yes,

but slowly and i think judy debt, judy vince had done a great service to freedom and liberty when he lectured the europeans, what something i normally don't like telling them we are not sharing values anymore . look at what you're doing, you're suppressing the desires of your people, the expression of your people. i think that will go down in history is one of america's finest moments. well, we'll hope so. and i hope that somehow will end this conflict in ukraine because even on this program, we don't see the road map just yet. here as all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests in cornwall room and in lake jackson. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, press lock, rules, the the a

rushing state. never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best. not all sense of the in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the rush for the day and split the ortiz full neck team and our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say from stephen twist, which is the

the, the the flush on the spirit goes all simple. all since it's a reward, i think in your solution somebody shall be in line me and then was the last line sort of say of the most of and then say that i'm here with

the insurance card. what's gonna be the solution? i mean, national event. me a triple play. my gillian, what your, what does the 1st thing i want you to are mute or so process? do you discuss the come by scale. if angela doesn't shut down there. so it says william says it, but the the, the,

the feeling is because of the h a and you will forgive me for doing them for some reason for the is that bottle? is it on some last that is a fine, you know, the rest of your activity on the the you have so sure it's, lisa says go month to it the best. i really appreciate it. so i'm seeing you in the joke. state via video. go from there. sure. sure, cool. i see the list for the additional lessee the

. here's the headlights here. what are the international folk about an anti climax? the us release has a black style version of the jet free f student files and the american public cries filed at the trump promised to reveal the client list right now. it's nowhere to be said necessary. we stop sleeping each other off and not. so you take on russian by yourselves. well, couch that's a reality check right there for the british prime minister, paying a visit to the white house, but not much love was. he tries to cozy up the donald trump and rushes federal securities up, which is arresting. 2 men who reveal ukrainian intelligence recruited them to assassinate a top religious leader of crime in the.