[000:00:00;00] the the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter level, the russians and the americans are talking again. the media is about as about ending sanctions. the europeans, as usual, are angry, confused, and divided. in short, there are high expectations about dramatic chains. so where is the trump piece plant? the prospect being ukraine, i'm joined by my guess, steve, jeremy and courtney. well,

he has retired royal navy commodore in rome. we have thomas bobbsey. he is an author as well as i call him this for the british and heard and the american compact magazines and in lake jackson, we crossed to daniel mcadams. he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity. hard gentleman cross lock rules and effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated, daniel, because you got up early as for the program, we very much value your presence here at this early hour. and speaking of ours, you know, i, i have a different time zone than you guys. so every time i wake up in the morning, it looks like there's a difference, a piece plan. there is no peace plan. there's many rules. there is bilateral relations. nothing much about ukraine yet, daniel as well. i think it's a big problem. the deputy for administer. russia has been saying this week, we have cost that we haven't seen a piece plan. we don't know what the piece plan is. um, i mean on the one hand, but rather sanguine about the seemingly positive turner relations between the us

and russia. we've talked many times, peter, when we were on the verge of nuclear war and it doesn't seem we are that way right now. so there's something to be grateful for. however, um i think the are in coate signals coming from washington, particularly coming from trump himself. so exactly as you say, what is the piece plan? we know that later in the week the working group will be meeting in eastern boil and we don't know exactly what's going to happen. but this week has been a somewhat confusing when i have to admit when it comes to us pressure relations. you know, steve, it's, it's very interesting we had here during the sunday programs in the united states, we had steve woodcock, which a parent appears to be trumps. at large envoy. he said to the american people, it's not a surprise to anyone on this program or anyone watching this program. but he, he pushed back against that the suspicious that the conflict in ukraine was provo unprovoked. and he said, you know, and then we had a pete hague said say, well,

it's more complicated than that. that is a see change. i mean, that is in credible because what i have argued on this program for 3 years is that all the west has is framing and narratives. is divorced from reality. reality is seeping in here, but i don't see where it's going beyond bettering bilateral relations. and as daniel was said, that's a good thing. that's a very good thing, but it's not enough. go ahead, steve. um, you know, i was uh, welcomed um access comments. are we booked with go to some to critical that was the patients i see. the american suppressed was from premier display that she no longer see them as an engine morning. well, we're going to move on to hold alone and i sent you in the budget code. well, the refer read, read house. um the 3 of us ones. each of them are nice talking, so it's a welcoming thing. that's ok. i think in terms of the young provide and that's what i think this to set something to us in the past. the reverse,

right. cool. the street neighbors who right expansionist to believe that the war was nothing to do with the worst nation or expansion. and that actually it started in trying to switch to a little bit on your back to my mileage, although the religious. so we're showing one where voice is the willingness until recently. but where the people have been saying other started back in 1996 or so when jordan came and said that it was the biggest from this mistake, the price for history for the rocks eastridge found on the in europe in storage path, the gang all the way through going through to the chicks. there's lots of different plans for the rebuff for um the uh, the bill balance is yep. means the telegram probably depends on how much based in control missional. so of course this was was as it is, what's the problem? the feeder is that the west has been guided by a political narrative, right? the rush has been gotta bite on a true structure and

a portion of the people are pulled into the plan. for 2 reasons are as far as i can see, the rest so nothing. well, yeah, and that's it. it's good it's, it's a problem and it's a problem. it's only going to get worse here. i mean, i have a plan, i'm going to be send out a plan. i'm in negotiations. you can just do that so long as we go to thomas and in room. you know, as i've said, you know, the bettering of relations between russian united states is a real, really good, a change, but it's not solving the ukraine problem, the crate ukraine dilemma for both the united states and russia here. and, and one of the criticisms i would have of the approach here is there to, it's too many voices or too many people talking in the us on the west side here. it's very confusing. and donald trump is his own worst enemy when it comes to this because he says conflicting things, thomas: yeah, think of everyone else. i'm feeling positively bipolar these days. actually between

for optimism and and pessimism. so as the, i guess, upset, of course, having an american president on the other as american officials acknowledged that this, the idea of the back yard use of this war. and that this was provoked by nato. and i would add even deliberately provoked, and it's of course, a huge deal and a big step, you know, for it was a cheating piece because only wants to acknowledge that the other side is not motivated by a rational, crazy impulse is, but actually has actual concerns that need to be address the brand environment where you can sit down around the table and try to address the concerns of all sides. so this is definitely a big deal, but i think, well, i don't. busy i'm not underestimate is that this is only to fast towards achieving a piece. i mean, the road to piece remains very long and tortures that i think people are on the estimated just how difficult this will be because reaching piece and ukraine is about much more to just technology russian control. over the next territories, something to trump even seems willing to concede, and it's not even just about stopping nato expansion. but from russia's perspective,

it's about much more of this is about deeply reform in the international system. it's such a way that great power of prophecy was a proxy complex, right? the one was seen in ukraine, elsewhere, don't repeat in the future. so this is about, i'm really, really finding the global balance of power and you know, for the us and the west, more in general to accept the multi polar nature of today's global reality. and even allow for the peaceful wrong as abuse. and as a power, china, of course, but also russia and in this sense, yes, we've had positive statements also kind of acknowledging the multi polar um, reality of today's world from key trump. yeah. administration officials. but i still think that, you know, trump remains young. this is my greatest warranty, but hold into a southern side of supremacist and hedge, a monic view of american power. and even more importantly, a 0 sum view of international relations. why the relative decrease of american power due to rise by the powers continues to be seen in terms of

a threat to america is kind of vital security interest rather than just the fest have to go to america just becoming a normal country. and i find this, um, i think this, this is probably the biggest obstacle to was reaching a long term satellite because i couldn't, i couldn't have said it better that you're absolutely right. because this is all about a big picture here. daniel, let's go smaller picture for a 2nd before we go to the break. is there again in the west and even among the drum team, a cease fire is acquainted with peace. there are 2 very different things are actually not the same at all. daniel, what exactly the problem is the order, the americans, arkansas? are it seemingly because it changes every day peter, assuming they are emphasizing the need for a cease fire 1st. russia has said through it's student students, it's one minister lot of robin others. this is a non starter. we're not going to do minsky again, we've been there, we've done that. we're not going to do it again. the us is, is insisting on this maybe a, something that they can show to the press the button something done. mean,

i think for us you, this is as we, as they've said, clearly this isn't as a central award. this is something that is part of our national survival strategy for the us. it almost seems at times like we need that we need to put one up on the wind board for us. so let's get this thing done. come on guys, do piece. if you don't, there's going to be a problem. and i think that's a real issue. and i think the president trump is, had a fairly bad week this last week in this i think ceremony where he claimed he took credit for giving the job and he said the war would never have started if i was president. oh, and by the way, i got the war started. yeah. because i guess that was, it wasn't able to skip the french, terrible, terrible nightmare performance. and it wasn't his only this week. so it's, it's actually quite this tight disturbing to hear him say that. yeah. it is, steve, i, i don't know i'm, i throw a lot of shade on this minerals deal like, i think it's a side. so i think it's maybe a diversion about not talking about nato, but i mean it, at the end of the day, this whole,

the minerals i'm investment thing doesn't make any sense if there isn't any peace and ukraine. go ahead steve. i feel like i've seen this property right. so the i work in the offshore energy sector now off to much less and i think there is a lot to be said for countries of corporate and commercially. so the fact that actually the margins of the russians out to, to back commercial, commercial discussions, there might be, there is a good thing. i'm not saying that it's going to bring a piece to the kind of yeah me but but, but steve, it's not the center of things like, oh, i absolutely agree what we're talking about, but it's not stopping the conflict that that's my issue. keep going. yeah, no, i think in terms of stopping conflict as has been said, this is gonna take time or if you've been to or, and you know that at the end of it's not much fun and it's going to be difficult. i . but to think we need to,

to understand the longer it takes them to the less but ukraine and you will have to the guys say, because rush reside to the side of national security interest, which is what i would do in that situation. and they will keep going until they true wherever i should go to secure what i was a secure order. i told i can charge you $22.00. the way that the property or finish would be that russia works. if it could not pointing the bridge, the guy said, well, get up some new for rid up because that was the friday for an actual strategic defense fund. and then i have a question mark which i still have on the desktop. but yeah, this is going to take to like what the 1st very much. all right. and some the russians are talking are kind of besides what this is. so i may feel a bit trapped by months, but it's much better with talking to blend. she is big. oh rather not so much. you just have to be patient difficult, which is when you see it will be a necessary puritan going home. yeah, and now all of the chaos that's happening in the western world, particularly nato, and what's going on with the european elections? i mean, there's

a whole lot in the mix here and no one is on the same page at this point, or a gentleman, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine, trump and the piece plan to stay with archie the, the,

the, [000:00:00;00] the middle of the 20th century, the portuguese colonial empire was in an acute crisis. a particularly 10th situation had developed in mozambique the people of this country were put in a humiliating position, income inequality ramp, and illiteracy. this respect by the portuguese for the local traditions led to a mass unrest. getting 1964, the liberation front of mozambique for a limo began its armed struggle for freedom. the regular army was not easy to resist,

but that guerrillas inflicted considerable damage on the invaders through the fighters against the colonial regime were supported by the soviet union and china. whereas the united states and great britain took the side of the invaders, the board to gaze responded to the guerrillas attacks with cruel counter insurgency . however, pre limos 10 year courageous struggle was a success after the overthrow of the fascist regime, and particularly in 1974. the new authorities surrendered a year later, lisbon fully recognized the independence of mozambie. but the victory had been gained at a high price during the war, mozambique had lost tens of thousands of his sons and daughters. the good, a flush on the state, it goes all simple, still was reading the following thing, but it was all since they said they was, i think in your social simulation,

i mean in most the most things. so those are the most common on say that i'm going to be a function of each national event. me or my gillian, which does of course i want you to commute. there is a process leads, disclose the come by scale. if angela doesn't shut down there. so it says william says it, but the

welcome back to the prospect where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to mind you were discussing trump in the piece plan and you create the okay, let's go back to thomas in rome. i can, i just have this deep seated feeling watching the last couple of weeks from since the famous phone call. okay, let's, let's start there. thomas is trump trying to do reverse mixing goes to china, and is this about you all to, to point out because i in trump is so, you know, he doesn't have a grasp of the details. he is, is his grasp of the ideas are getting better and better, but details history. it's not his forte. he's deal maker as everyone knows. and the deal he wants is some kind of, it's already been mentioned here. so i'm kind of global deal. maybe he saw a short documentary on the altar,

and i know he's obsessed with china. he's been obsessed with china since the 19 ninety's. is this what this is all about, thomas, and i think it is in part partly what it's about. um i think uh the idea that you know, he might be trying to. busy an a nick, some strategy and move us, i think has some value to it. and in fact, this thing kind of himself is said, so instead as much. and he said that, you know, he expects russia to, uh, you know, move away from china and that, that should be part of the deal. and uh, you know, honestly i see that strategy as um, as wanda is likely to fail 1st and foremost because cat. busy as well as other you know, trump and boys. uh, neither of them. ready nicks and i think, uh, you know, they failed to realize the importance and some of the historic relevance of rushes eastwood shift. i mean, this is not, this wasn't just something that russia decided on a whim. i mean, this came on the heels of, you know, i would say almost 2 years after the,

you know, the end of the cold war of russia trying to integrate into the west and via, into the transplanted sphere. and, you know, just having a door shot in his face. and so that, that's basically what the, and the home and a did in 2022 invasion of ukraine, which was russia, you know, as russia's way of telling, well, you know, okay, i realize that there's no way of peace of really reforming the system. there's no way you're going to allow us into this system. and so we're gonna, you know, we're going to do it some of the way we're going to force the, all the other major powers to, into the, to change the approach international relations. i'm stomach stand. russia has, has succeeded with this as well where now, but of course, when you see trump, you know, wanting to use this uh, as a moment to kind of, you know, redefine or have a geo political round bog. and in the, in the us interest, right. it in the rushes address. you realize that yes, he does seem to be kind of, you know, uh, misreading the room because uh, you know,

if it's pretty clear to everyone that the, you know, the us and nato has lost on the battlefield. but that means that then you can't really, uh, you know, you know, impose the conditions for, for, for peace and um, and i think out and yes and, and disrespect. um, it says it's hard to be optimistic ready because uh, i think, you know, this is about accepting the, you know, we have thrown russia into china's arms and vice versa. something that, you know, was for a long time was you know, something that way. well, yeah, avoiding this was one of america's overarching priorities, right. but is this something that come you with us the overnight and i think accepting not only does it should, does it less than the us to have to accept the multiple the nature of today as well . but it also has to accept the fact that the, the west is sidelined in this new and in this new well because the, the other 2 major blocks and very good friendly terms, blotchy faxed to us. and i think that we know the way of addressing that is not

true. and you know, black mary and it's not true. i still know i'm trying to strong, i'm rochelle, anyone else. but is it, you know, this will be a long process? what west finally he lost us, do humbly admit, you know it's, it's the re imagines as well as the re imagine it's place in the world so well, put, daniel, is that possible? you've been on this program since the very beginning, year, and we've talked about had gemini and the empire tenant learn differently. can the old empire learn some new tricks? i mean, the, at the end of a, that's what this is all about, daniel. i mean, from the perspective of american exceptionalism, what's happening now is either colossally brilliant or colossally stupid. and it goes to the next in china. think there are plenty of realist and no offense to relive south. or i'm not one of them. who believe that getting a deal with russia is very important because the united states military machine has to pivot towards china and to a lesser degree, lots in america. and so they want the same game in

a different area. and they believe that, that russia is, is a country they can deal with, get out of the way, put that off the list, and do the real focus over here. i think that will be a disaster for the us and it will not work because as you've said, this is a different world than trump stepped into in 2017. the world is changed partly because of the us foreign policy, which to a degree has pushed countries together that have not been as close as before. russia with the, with iran and saudi arabia, particularly on the other hand, maybe it's colossally brilliant. maybe the american exception was, are getting, are getting put in to once again, kicks that football that lucy has teed up and fall on his rear end, which may actually be the demise approved. and which is the end all goal of the neo cons in the us and the american exceptionalism, the us to find the take down pollutant. because i do believe that if he takes the bait from the west again as he's done several times,

and it goes down as it will. uh, then maybe the end of putin. well, i mean, i'm steve. obviously russia wants to have good relations with all countries. i mean that that's perfectly natural, but the, the going back to what daniel had to say there, and it's already been mentioned on this program. there's not going to be another mince process we've already been there. we have seen that and put who is heavily criticized toward within russia itself. they're not going to do that. i mean, what trump is asking is, you know, rushing to take yourself off the board for a while. well, the russians are not going to do that. everyone knows that steve of the may not be serious. the, the, to whether you leave the, the west has failed or been defeated or advice. be defeated. it appears plants are basically preventing a treat, right? so that's that, that is the case. so we're not in a position where we've tamara cooke big take,

take terms of rushed out and i think the other problem separately, we construct type tons of the problem is trust. and this is something brooks to to branch about. so i think during the time it is sort of positive what i what you see if you look back through history and i see the accounts of them that starts on this dentistry. as far as i can see, what they think it starts in 2022. yeah. what to say is, is the americans questions? uh, west is withdrawing. you can actually from the transfer the prophetess and then tell us to be constructed all control pieces and then of course, argument springs, the problems associated with that. and of course there's, there's a cool and, and you know, the americans and the british persuading so that you don't to sign. so i think that the russians read or suspension, or we've got to print out that there is a that we will need to for you to build up trust type of time. and that when come true, the consultation approach to

a few relations got to leave bases confrontational, secure, see, to protection year. this is month for about 12 years of secure, satisfied, and well, um and, and thomas, the current security arrangement in europe is, was done without the russians and against the russians. which brings up another point we're talking about big global changes. and it's, it's wide open. what could happen, but i have a deep seated feeling that the transatlantic tradition is coming to an end, which would be a good thing in my mind. thomas? oh yeah, it took me to bring more just no, show not. i'm not so sure what's actually happening. i mean, um we've, we've mostly spoken about the us today, but i think he'll a huge obstacle piece today is your up and, and you are being countries which seem to have got swept up in their own propaganda in a way quite amazing. you know, they seem to have, you know, told them to tell that people and told us citizens and down to do for 3 is a, this was about democracy and sovereignty and etc, etc. you know, they,

they repeated that. so, you know so often that it, you know, it's as if they now started believing that themselves which would explain the shock act from, you know, tiny town and to table, you know, as if they're like, wait a minute. what's happened? you know, as if they truly believe the propaganda that it was coming from washington and even from their own selves, you know. so i think guess, you know, we maybe, you know, need to kind of, you know, it was a result of psychology to some extent, to explain what's happening here. because a lot of it, i think, is, is fairly, a rational on. but i think that we should, on the estimate of course, people are right when they say that your con, deal uh without the us continue to allow your brain to continue fighting for that line. it certainly will be able to allow you create, retrieve any form of success on the battlefield, but it can seriously hand any of the piece dogs i can, you know, on this war mongering and sale, monitoring, rhetoric that we keep hearing from you or be leaders is uh, i guess you know that we've mentioned trust. i mean, i think yes, whatever true, whatever truck little trust that you rush or may have

a visa be to us. i think they, you know, they trust you or even less you're today is us, is, you know, how, how could anyone trust your current leadership? i think that this is a huge, huge problem. and, and you know, they seem positively deranged in many respects. and it is, um, i think, you know, very a very, very serious issue. and um, when it comes to trying to hang, hang on, let me, let me give the last words down the hill. i mean, staying with the europeans here. i mean, i think they're more upset about being wrong then not being able to help you create one minute. go ahead daniel, you know, i think, i mean, i, i liked what my colleague has said, but i actually believe that europe is losing its grip. and that's why it's turned into force. that's why it's arrested georgie eskew and romania this past week. oh yeah. oh that's. it's absolutely terrified people. i kicked of victorville and, and robert feats. so in many others that are emerging, i mean things go a little bit more slowly and you're up in the us when it comes to electro politics

. but look at the victory the off day in germany that the people of europe are literally holding up their middle finger to their leadership right now. and the leadership is in full panic mode. the one indelible picture in my mind is the european sitting in paris and the kids table and mark router sitting right there with them saying, we're so mad that we're not invited to the big kids table i. e puts in and trump speaking. so i think europe is losing its grip, it's going a little bit more slowly, but it's, i think something that's inevitable. what and a uh, we have about 15 seconds more. i do think the electoral process in europe will continue the trend that we've seen from france view k in germany. go ahead, daniel. i think yes, but slowly and i think judy debt, judy vance, has done a great service to freedom and liberty when he lectured the europeans, what something i normally don't like telling them we are not sharing values anymore . look at what you're doing. you're suppressing the desires of your people, the expression of your people. i think that will go down in history is one of

america's finest moments. well, we'll hope so. and i hope that somehow will end this conflict in ukraine because even on this program, we don't see the road map just yet. here as all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests in cornwall room and, and like jackson. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember press lock, rules the the

the stuff for the machine for the picture such as you're done with the machine called the should the get our daughter should do this vehicle, is it the economic model have newest defined what it means, different products to them and see if it's doesn't figured that's about the next 2 weeks, ok, even though is the new much so i was unable to deal with the company and some village goes up. developing bio chemical, whether it's inside ukraine also comes good to watch news move in a solution. you know,

wasn't cheap but the white glove service cost, but he's because of the same issue. the address thing now for not dressing up donald psalm has words with a lot of is the last key over here. my tauriel choices before he's even set foot in the white house and that's, that's the pad, meet the side a controversial, rab minerals deal with this cost that said more with redoubt economy, jeffrey staff. so i'm still coming to washington, this kind of a better way to sign over the almost the meaningless document, the middle half,