all a true piece can be arranged for a fundamental reason. there is no fundamental conflict between the united states and russia, so there is no fundamental reason for conflict. if the us had not asserted you in a polarity after 1991, there would be no conflict if in december 19, 2021 is i beg to divide white house. negotiate with present improvement on the draft us russian security arrangement that he table on december 15th 2021. negotiate there would be no war. there is no direct reason for conflict. there is reason for trade. there is reason out they'll be competition and other things, but conflict, of course, not the same is true with europe. if europe would open its eyes, it's hard with europe is 27 independent countries. they can't think

clearly as a major power in a unified way, but if they could, they would have just a direct counterpart relationship with russia. and ukraine would be so much safer as the neutral state that it was that would have protected ukraine. because neutrality is not a danger. neutrality is a protection asks women, finland, austria during the decades that it had neutrality, not the nato period of the last year. this is ridiculous, they were safe with him, traveler, the oscar is safe with neutrality, but they chose the block approach that's on the safe spice. stay with all the international for all the latest from around the well, thanks for watching. by the,

if you was thinking about russia, what does your mind picture the landscapes open up before your eyes? the last one, just the veto. scott starts the journey. the are you ready to come along the

hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the russians and the americans are talking again, the media is about as about ending sanctions. the europeans, as usual, are angry, confused, and divided. in short, there are high expectations about dramatic chains. so where is the trump piece plant the starting ukraine? i'm joined by my guess, steve jeremy and courtney. well, he has retired royal navy commodore in rome. we have thomas fuzzy. he is an author as well as i call him this for the british unheard. and the american compact

magazines, and in lake jackson, we crossed to daniel mcadams. he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity. hi gentlemen, cross lock rules and effects. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated, daniel, because you got up early is for the program. we very much value your presence here at this early hour. and speaking of ours, you know, i, i have a different time zone than you guys. so every time i wake up in the morning, it looks like there's a different, a piece plan. there's no peace plan. there's many rules. there is bilateral relations. nothing much about ukraine yet, daniel. well, i think it's a big problem. the deputy for administer. russia has been saying this week, we have cost that we haven't seen a piece plan. we don't know what the piece plan is. i mean, on the one hand, but rather sanguine about the seemingly positive turning relations between the us and russia. we've talked many times, peter, when we were on the verge of nuclear war and it doesn't seem we are that way right

now. so there's something to be grateful for. however, um i think the are in coate signals coming from washington, particularly coming from trump himself. so exactly as you say, what is the piece plan? we know that later in the week the working group will be meeting in eastern boil and we don't know exactly what's going to happen. but this week has been a somewhat confusing when i have to admit when it comes to us pressure relations. you know, steve, it's, it's very interesting we had have during the sunday programs in the united states, we had steve woodcock, which a parent appears to be trumps. at large on boy he said to the american people, it's not a surprise to anyone on this program or anyone watching this program. but he, he pushed back against the thesis this that the conflict in ukraine was provo unprovoked. and he said, you know, and then we had a peat, haig said, say, well, it's more complicated than that. that is a see change. i mean, that is in credible because what i have argued on this program for 3 years is that

all the west has is framing and narratives. is divorced from reality. reality is seeping in here, but i don't see where it's going beyond bettering bilateral relations. and as daniel was said, that's a good thing, that's a very good thing, but it's not enough. go ahead, steve. and um, you know, i was uh, welcomed um access comments, reboot with go to some to critical that was the patients i see the american suppressed was from previous dispos that she no longer receive them as an engine morning. well, where i was a multiple, multiple alone, and i sent in the budget code. well, the refer read, read power. so the 3 of us ones, each of them are nice talking, so it's a welcoming thing. that's ok. i think in terms of the young provide and that's what i think this to set something to send the past the reverse, right. cool. the treatment neighbors who are expansionist to believe that the board was not open today with the worst dates or expansion. and that actually it starts

it, i've been trying to switch to a little bit on your back to the my mileage, although the religious. so we're showing one way of voices of the willingness until recently. but where the people have been saying this started back in 1996 or so when jordan came and said that it was the biggest from this mistake, it price for history for the rocks eastridge found on the in europe in storage traffic going a little bit ways for going through to do justice. there's lots of different names for the rebel or um the uh, the phil pants is near means the telegram probably times much basically control missional. so of course, this was was as it is what the problem, the feeder is, but the west has been guided by a political narrative, right. the rush has been got a 5 on a true structure and a portion of the people are pulled into place for 2 reasons. are, as far as i can see, the rest so nothing. well, yeah,

and that's it. it's good if it's a problem and it's a problem. it's only going to get worse here. i mean, i have a plan, i'm going to be send out a plan. i'm in negotiations. you can just do that so long as we go to thomas and in room. you know, as i've said, you know, the bettering of relations between russian united states is a we, we really good a change, but you, it's not solving the ukraine problem, the crate ukraine dilemma for both the united states and russia here. and, and one of the criticisms i would have of the approach here is there to, it's too many voices or too many people talking in the us on the west side here. it's very confusing. and donald trump is his own worst enemy when it comes to this because he says conflicting things, thomas: yeah, think of everyone else. i'm feeling positively bipolar these days. actually between for optimism and, and pessimism. so as the, uh, you know, i guess upset, of course,

having an american president and the other is american officials acknowledged that the back yard use of this war. and that this was provoked by nato. and i would add even deliberately provoked, and it's of course, a huge deal and a big step forward towards achieving a piece. because only wants to acknowledge that the other side is not motivated by rational, crazy impulses, but actually has actual concerns that need to be addressed. the create an environment where you can sit down around the table and try to address the concerns of all sides. so this is definitely a big deal, but if it was a lot of people on underestimate is that this is only to fast towards achieving a piece. i mean, the road to piece remains very long and tortures that i think. people are on the estimated just how difficult this will be because region piece and ukraine is about much more to just technology russian control over the next territories. something to trump even seems willing to concede, and it's not even just about stopping nato expansion. but from russia's perspective, it's about much more of this is about deeply reform in the international system. it's such a way that great power proxy was

a proxy complex lot. the one was seen in ukraine, elsewhere, don't repeat in the future. so this is about, i'm really, really finding the global balance of power and you know, for the us and west, more in general, to upset the multi polar nature of today's global reality. and even allow for the peaceful rise abuse centers of power, china, of course, but also russia and in this sense, yes, we've had positive statements old. so kind of acknowledging the multi polar um, reality of today's world from key trump. yeah. administration officials. but i still think that, you know, trump remains young, this is my greatest warranty, but hold into a southern side of supremacist and hedge, a monic view of american power. and even more importantly, at 0, some view of international relations. why the relative decrease of mountain power due to the rise above the palace continues to be seen in terms of what about a threat to america is kind of vital security interest rather than just the fest have to move to america just becoming a normal country and i find this, um,

i think this, this is probably the biggest obstacle to was reaching a long term satellite because i couldn't, i couldn't have said it better that you're absolutely right. because this is all about a big picture here. daniel, let's go smaller picture for a 2nd before we go to the break. is there again in the west and even among the trump team a cease fire is acquainted with peace. there are 2 very different things are actually not the same at all. daniel, or what exactly the problem is the order the americans are concerned. are it seemingly because it changes every day peter, assuming they are emphasizing the need for a cease fire? first, russia has said through it's student students, it's one minister lot of robin others. this is a non starter. we're not going to do minsky again, we've been there, we've done that. we're not going to do it again. the us is, is insisting on this maybe something that they can show to the press the button something done. mean, i think for us or this is as we, as they've said, clearly this isn't as a central award. this is something that is part of our national survival strategy

for the us. it almost seems at times like we need that we need to put one up on the wind board for us. so let's get this thing done. come on guys, do piece. if you don't, there's going to be a problem. and i think that's a real issue. and i think that president trump has had a fairly bad week this last week in this i think ceremony already claimed he took credit for giving the job and he said the war would never have started if i was president. oh, and by the way, i got the war started. yeah. because i guess that was, it wasn't able to skip the frantic, terrible, terrible nightmare performance. and it wasn't his only this week. so it's, it's actually quite this type disturbing to hear him say that. yeah. it is, steve, i, i don't know i'm, i throw a lot of shade on this minerals deal like, i think it's a side. so i think it's maybe a diversion about not talking about nato, but i mean it, at the end of the day, this whole, the minerals and investment thing doesn't make any sense if there isn't any peace and ukraine. go ahead, steve. i how do i function much property, right,

so there what can the offshore energy set so now off to much less maybe. right. and i think there is a lot to be search for countries corporate and actually sort of the fact that actually the margins of the russians. i'll talk you back to marshal commercial discussions in mind. here is a good thing. i'm not saying that it's going to bring a piece to do quite a bit, but steve, it's not the center of things like, oh absolutely great what we're talking about, but it's not stopping the conflict that that's my issue. keep going. yeah, no, i think in terms of stopping conflict as has been said, this is gonna take time if you've been to or, and you know that at the end of it's not much fun and it's going to be very difficult. i. but to think we need to, to understand the longer types and the less than your crane. and you will have to the guys say, because rush reside to the side of national security interest,

which is what i would do in that situation. and they will keep going until they true, but whoever i should go to secure what i was a secure or i told i can 2022. the way that the property all furnish would be that russia works. if it could not pointing the bridge, the guy said we'll get up some new for rid up because that was the friday for an actual strategic defense fund. and then i had a question mark, which i still have to test. but yeah, this is going to take the 1st break, most americans and the russians are talking are kind of besides what this is. so i may feel a bit challenging at the moment, but as much as we're talking to blend, she's become a rough. no sir. what do we just have to be patient? typical that which is when you see it will be a necessary to it and going on. yeah, and now all of the chaos that's happening in the western world, particularly nato, and what's going on with the european elections. i mean, there's a whole lot in the mix here and no one is on the same page at this point, or a gentleman, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to

a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine, trump and the piece lead. stay with our d, the the or the

the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter about your mind. you were discussing trump in the piece plan and you create the okay, let's go back to thomas in room. i can, i just have this deep seated feeling watching the last couple of weeks from since the payments phone call. okay, let's, let's start there. thomas, who is trump trying to do reverse mix and goes to china? and is this about you all to, to point out because i trump is so he doesn't have a grasp of the details. he is, is his grasp of the ideas are getting better and better, but details history. it's not his forte. he's a deal maker as everyone knows. and the deal he wants is some kind of,

it's already been mentioned here. so i'm kind of global deal. maybe he saw a short documentary on the altar, and i know he's obsessed with china. he's been obsessed with china since the 19 ninety's. is this what this is all about, thomas? and i think it isn't part possibly what is about um i think uh the idea that you know, he might be trying to. busy uh, you know, an exit strategy and with us, uh, i think has some value to it. and in fact, this thing catalogs himself as said so instead as much. and he said that, you know, he expects russia to, uh, you know, move away from china and that, that should be part of the deal. and uh, you know, honestly i see this strategy as um, as wanda is likely to fail 1st and foremost because catalog as well as other, you know, trump and boys. uh, neither of them is next. and um, i think uh, you know, they failed to realize the importance and some of the historic relevance of rushes

eastwood shift. i mean, this is not, this wasn't just something that russia decided on a whim. i mean, this came on the heels of, you know, i would say almost 2 years after the, you know, the end of the cold war of russia trying to integrate into the west and via, into the transplanted sphere. and, you know, just having a door shot in his face. and so that, that's basically what the, and the home and a did in the 2022 invasion of ukraine, which was russia, you know, as russia's way of telling, well, you know, okay, i realize that there's no way of peace of really reforming the system. there's no way you're going to allow us into the system. and so we're going to, you know, we're going to do it some of the way we're going to force the other major powers to, to, to, to change the approach international relations. i'm some extent russia has, has succeeded with this as well where now, but of course, when you see trump, you know, wanting to use this as a moment to kind of, you know, read

a fine or have a geopolitical ram bogging in the, in the us interest right it in the rushes interest you read. 1 is that, yes, he does seem to be kind of, you know, missed reading the room because uh, you know, if it's pretty clear to everyone that the, you know, the us and nato have lost on the battlefield. but that means that then you can't really, uh, you know, you know, impose the conditions for, for, for peace and um, and i think out and yes and, and disrespect um it says it's hard to be optimistic. ready because uh, i think, you know, this is about accepting that, you know, we have thrown russia into china's arms and vice versa. something that, you know, was for a long time was, you know, something that way. well, yeah, avoid. this was one of america's overarching priorities, right. but this has something to come you with us the overnight and i think accepting not only does it should, does it less than the us have to accept the multi polar nature of today as well. but it also has to accept the fact that the, the west is sidelined in this new and in this new well because the other 2 major

blocks and very good friendly terms, blace faxed to us. and i think the do we know the way of addressing that is not true and, you know, blackmail and it's not true. i still know i'm trying to strong, i'm russia to anyone else. but is it, you know, this will be a long process? what west finally he lost us, do humbly admit, you know, is, is why is that if we imagine is spelled into the re, imagine it's place in the world so well put, daniel, is that possible? you've been on this program since the very beginning, year, and we've talked about had gemini and the empire tenant learn different. can the old empire learn some new tricks? i mean the, at the end of the, that's what this is all about, daniel. i mean, from the perspective of american exceptionalism, what's happening now is either colossally brilliant or colossally stupid. and it goes to the next in china think there are plenty of realist and no offense to realistic out there. i'm not one of them who believe that getting

a deal with russia is very important because the united states military machine has to pivot towards china and to a lesser degree, lots in america. and so they want the same game in a different area, and they believe that that russia is, is a country they can deal with a get out of the way, put that off the list, and do the real focus over here. i think that will be a disaster for the us and it will not work because as you've said, this is a different world than trump stepped into in 2017. the world has changed partly because of the us foreign policy, which george degree has pushed countries together that have not been as close as before. russia with the, with iran and saudi arabia, particularly on the other hand, maybe it's colossally brilliant. maybe the american exceptional list are getting are getting put in to once again, kicks that football that lucy has teed up and fall on his rear end, which may actually be the demise approved. and which is the end all goal of the neo cons in the us and the american exceptionalism, the us to find the take down prudent because i do believe that if he takes the bait

from the west again as he's done several times and it goes down as it will then maybe the end of food in well, i mean, i'm steve. obviously russia wants to have good relations with all countries. i mean that that's perfectly natural. but the, the, me going back to what daniel had to say there. and it's already been mentioned on those program. there's not going to be another mince process we've already been there. we have seen that and put who is heavily criticized toward within russia itself. they're not going to do that. i mean, what trump is asking is, you know, rushing to take yourself off the board for a while. well, the russians are not going to do that. everyone knows that, steve, this is not going to happen. i mean, nothing. be serious. the whether you believe that the west has failed or been to research or advice, be defeated. it appears to actually buy some people that need a tree, right? so that's that,

that is the case. so i wouldn't even position where you are. i could take, take terms of rushed out and that's the problem. so we construct type tons of the problem is trust and this is something brooks to, to branch about. so i think during the time it is sort of positive what i what you see if you look back through history of the accounts of them that starts on this dentistry. as far as i can see what they think it starts in 2022. yeah. what to say is, is the americans questions uh, west is withdrawing. you can actually from the prophetess and then test constructed all control features. and then of course, the minutes brings the publicized search with that. and of course there's, there's a pool and a chevy and americans in the british persuading, so that you don't to sign. so i think that the russians read or suspension. we've

got to ask that there is a that we will need to frame to build up trust type of time. and that when come true, a consultation approach to a few relations got to leave bases, confrontational, 6 versus to architecture in europe. this is month for about 12 verse of secure sac, right? and, well, um and, and thomas, the current security arrangement in europe is, was done without the russians and against the russians. which brings up another point we're talking about big global changes and edits. it's wide open, what could happen? but i have a deep seated feeling that the transatlantic tradition is coming to an end. which would be a good thing in my mind, thomas? it's oh yeah, it took me to bring more just no, show not. i'm not so sure. what's actually happening? i mean, um yeah we've, we've mostly spoken about the us today, but i think he'll a huge obstacle piece today is your up and, and european countries which seem to have got swept up in their own propaganda in a way quite amazing. you know, they seem to have, you know,

told them to tell that people that told us citizens and down to does for 3 is a, this was about democracy and sovereignty and, and, etc, etc. you know, they, they repeat it as you know. so often that it, you know, it's as if they now started believing that themselves which would explain the shock act from, you know, tiny town and to table, you know, as if they're like, wait a minute. what's happening? you know, as if they truly believe the propaganda that it was coming from washington and even from their own selves, you know. so i think guess, you know, we maybe, you know, need to kind of result was all the psychology to some extent to explain what's happening here because a lot of it, i think is, is very rational on, but i think uh, yeah, we should on the estimate of course, people are right when they say that your current deal uh without the us uh, continue to uh, allow you to continue fighting for that line and certainly will be able to allow you agreed to receive any form of us uh, success on the battlefield. but it can seriously hand any, you know, the piece dogs i can, you know, on this war mongering and sale, monitoring,

rhetoric that we keep hearing from you are purely, it is, is uh again, you know, that we've mentioned trust. i mean, i think, yes, whatever true, whatever trump little trust that you rush or may have a visa be to us. i think they, you know, they trust you or even less you're today is us is, you know, who built, how could anyone trust yours kind of leadership. i think that this is a huge, huge problem. and, and, you know, they seem, you know, positively deranged in many respects. and it is, um, i think, you know, very, a very, very serious issue. and when it comes to hang, hang on, let me, let me give the last word, van, who i mean, staying with the europeans here. i mean, i think they're more upset about being wrong then not being able to help you create one minute. go ahead, daniel or? no, i think, i mean i, i liked that my colleague has said, but i actually believe that europe is losing its grip. and that's why it's turned into force. that's why it's arrested george ask you in romania this past week. oh yeah that's, it's absolutely terrified people like it of victim or bon and rubber seats. so in

many others that are emerging, i mean things go a little bit more slowly and you up in the us when it comes to electro politics. but look at the victory the off day in germany that the people of europe are literally holding up their middle finger to their leadership right now. and the leadership is in full panic mode. the one indelible picture in my mind is the european sitting in paris and the kids table and mark router sitting right there with them saying, we're so mad that we're not invited to the big kids table i. e puts in and trump speaking. so i think europe is losing its grip. it's going a little bit more slowly, but it's, i think something that's inevitable. what uh we have about 15 seconds more. i do think the electoral process in europe will continue the trend that we've seen from france buquet in germany. go ahead, daniel. i think yes, but slowly and i think judy debt, judy vance, has done a great service to freedom and liberty when he lectured to europeans. but something

i normally don't like telling them we are not sharing values anymore. look at what you're doing. you're suppressing the desires of your people, the expression of your people. i think that will go down in history is one of america's finest moments. well, we'll hope so. and i hope that somehow will end this conflict in ukraine because even on this program, we don't see the roadmap just yet. here. it's all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests in cornwall room and, and like jackson. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, plus the rules, the one with the for loop of those little and so forth. us nice, one more thing. what is on so good and squared away from us? why little do you plus you only watch the dealer words which isn't going to do with

me as well when i go and still able to start using the function is still bothering you. but let me hear when you push the issue of the unbox remodeled and move up is to move. it'll miss this. and when you, when you go i am sitting on the deal with my music. it'll sell. i don't yeah. post the by the other was like if i use the yeah, i'm just thinking and then you slice that, i mean 50 a good. i maybe cause it please go ahead and always communicate that may go up national minds, but it just of the other we have sort of don't push mojitos to the most video insights, but i don't think he will definitely stays. funds will really tell me what you mean if you want to spend these, these putting you particularly see i'm saying is, what do you need us to do? let me just see what it is. the other be needs to be done. so you can some list, of course the movies is throw it in my hands. not old on the side of me,

things like that. i put 9 for the physician, reject the deer in no position, didn't dictate what we're going to fail. often was theory of showed down in the oval office a lot of these the last key walks out of the white house and laptop, the dominic shop accuses him of gambling with global security. you don't have to cards right now with us. you still have no car right now. you're for you again people thing, you gambling with world war 3 gambling world war 3 now was talks brought to one abrupt end of the signing of a punch of also deal over ukraine's natural resources and taking off the table to.