the, the the hello and welcome to well to part the principles of national security and neighbors . territorial integrity have never been perfectly aligned with the arrival of donald trump on to the global stage edits even more attention to this already and boiling contradiction. will the congress now have to agree on

a new set of boundaries when it comes to defending national board as well to discuss that i'm now joined by invested, or i see if there any, like a sense form or special representative to i was going to spend and currently a senior research fellow at b as i'm about the policy research institute investor. it's a great honor for me to talk to thank you very much for being available. thank you for having me now. uh, let me start with something that is a very close to your home late last year. but cosign in indian media were buzzing. the discussion on pakistan strikes on one of the, i guess, since provinces. and i know it's a big thing for you uh for the 2 countries, but i also noticed that internationally, you know, many of the countries were a sort of doing a similar kinetic scene because at that time is early in turkey. we're moving from a bold li on into the syrian territory. there is a rush as presence in ukraine. we know about is there a israel's operation and gas?

donald trump is now talking about expanding american borders officially by quite acquiring greenland and canada. i wonder if you take that all as sort of isolated incidents or do you think perhaps the some of the countries have become far more liberal when it comes to redrawing the map. i think that we are mixing as many issues together. the 1st is no 2 sufficient of similar that you'd effort to bucks on strikes. that is was a result of the intelligence base report that contribute covers what or the and the end the, and do a planning. so those are precision strikes based on the incursions and none of the one measurements of one. and then a similar strike took place the back in last,

last drills again, the same intelligence. but as the reason was, that these 22 people, they are taking so truly in the sun, the, as for the, you in the report, the tools to 6000. and they are the largest group for far as far as phone carriers sort of concerned apart from why i escaped the stomach moment of those books on and 80 i am, it's a long running problem, but it's a, it's a problem that's positioned outside your borders and you know that according to the international law, all countries have to respect the neighbors border. so there's always a controversy whenever somebody crosses into somebody mc area. this was not drug classical, you know, while lucian, what about the 2 to be a tax on bucks some positions joined by the one excellence. it is

not there to be exclusive attacks on bucks on security forces to williams. and so they have engaged in death and destruction. and then what about ice creepy people who have done did our tax in the could mind trying it on in moscow and focus on so the, so you have to actually address these issues and like honest you and then you cannot make send the sovereignty comes when the other side also respects the sovereignty of others. now my question is not to criticize a practice done by any measure. i'm not an expert on that, but i wonder if perhaps the current framework of international law not only by the fact that they and many countries seem to be ignoring it, but, but by the fact that it doesn't seem to solve the issues that you have just raised whether the framework needs to be updated,

revise brought in touch with reality some how well those uh you are referring to. i can understand that those, those are the movers and shakers in the water. when you in good it bucks on into that, then can you think of this that was last like analogy, drawing on back to huge situation as i said in the beginning is difficult different . so when the do you do talk about iceland know for the metro annexing mexico and canada? so that's the, you all know, we all know under the international law that is actually a tech on the phone. and the one of the inmates fuel out in the state of war and the, the same united states and natural forces the entered into the agreement to know what a social can and left smilingly. now they have left for the language of our

disposition is the building we respect to, but at the same time, the left, you know, the single problem of it. so if you are in my shoes how you're going to address that, i'm not qualified to answer that question. that's why i'm interviewing you. but can i just um, double check the 2nd part of my question, do you seeing the, the international environment there? so the current a source has become somewhat more permissible us to re drawing the borders or crossing into the neighboring territory a little bit more sort of a carefree them. it's used to be, i think, a, that's a loose talk. and that we discussed that talk and the drawing of the bar as means it would actually bring the piece of security in, in the work danger. so this was something guys dangerous talk. do you think there

could be any i joined international action because i remember a couple of years back. there was a lot of talk. the police from the russian side about the shared secures of principal, you know, all major powers and regional powers. committing to the principle of not advancing the security of the cost of the neighbor. do you think it's realistic to perhaps come back to that principle or invent some other? i think we have to go back to the drawing board and we have to discuss this in um, total manner. and we should not leave this to some vertical mavericks that they decide about to anything. and this is not the way all for conducting international business. how can i ask specifically about ways of conducting international business? because, i mean, i've gotten a sense uh or the tally, binds uh,

policy or sort of style of international engagement seems to be very interesting. crowded because on summer shoes they seem to be um, very unconventional as put it that way, for example, of refusing to issue a passports to the citizens for crossing into pakistan for example. but on other is on other matters, like negotiating with the indians. they seem to project an image of a fully fledged diplomatic power. how do you sort of see how to characterize these foreign policy approach? what does it say that i think to the bottom of student learning a and the called the deadline quickly about the conduct of relationship? what does it mean to respect the sewing to you and the integrity of for each of those barges? and what does it mean that to, in the economic real, how to behave,

how to grant access to each other and in the region? it does have been sufficient. so we hope that the internal government of one some the really take measures that really be beneficial for the people of health on some casing. they're genuinely uh, not aware of how to do those things and need to learn or are they perhaps using uh, you know, some loopholes in behaving in a certain way when it pleases down with one nation and showing a difference. i go to that. so i went to the, that's the case then the thing is the cloud about hoffman because of a new thing that perhaps the refills are real, say in

a one nation's not to have fox sports. and this is not the case. i think you have to check affects because we show almost 2000 visas birthday is to the highest number perhaps anywhere in the world with such a number of reasons. i do show that one should also know that they have 5 other neighbors off. they cannot really, you know, use the, the, the concessions which bucks on used to give them that was not available to done with the other 5. numerous. and yeah, you wrote recently the president cuz i used to call pakistan and i've got a son sammy's twins that cannot be separated. do you agree with him and what? uh, what do you want pack assigned to be in such a symbiotic relationship with any other nation? i have no doctor about it. that is a symbolic relationship with trinet bucks. i don't know why. so again, it is quite exceptional. dec. 17 tribes are actually on the border. this is not the

key, is that the one size other 5 neighbors we should we have a different box on one. so the and then coming up industries to and more so for instance, they have projects, those books and for commons, but they go totally don't identify themselves with the projects, projects on those books on our program, his son because there's the culture of the gap which has gone, and the more comes over to here and the project goes, looks and to come as well, you may know, but in some so this is the situation tasting. it is a special case. i mean, that cannot be ruled ultimately by the international law. because what you're describing seems to be a very peculiar situation and dealing with the, you know, very traditional culture that is very different from even the pakistan's culture. i mean, the urban pakistan culture seducing, perhaps then this border needs to be and given some sort of an exception in how

a you have to keep on trying. the reason is that the, on the border now it says and not a good example. but at polio awareness is prevalent only on bucks on the ones on border. as because in the polio as has been ended have if it is finished or the word, but it is. yeah, that's because of the culture, the tools we showed up, right? because the thing that the good, the part of the waters of drops are shars. so they should and mainly me and become important nonsense. it goes like this is being pursued. so the a that because that it is. but you have to visually tell the people that there is a way to interact. no one is dropping, the was coming to focus on. no one is dropping. focus on is to go to a one sun. but those were coming from i was on. they have to adopt

a way which is internationally accepted. the goal for hugs do go on passports. they cannot imagine going to. so the passport, all right, any other country without us. so i think this is a good, really doing all due to the well invested, or we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments station the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth is the case for the madness of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also absurd. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing as for so the funder line likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deal. so what is, let me, let me on my have very quick propaganda. you know

a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the all the welcome back to worlds apart with a seem to run a former pakistan's special representative. and i've got to stand on currently a senior research fellow and the is my mother bought the policy research institute investigator. and just before the break, we started talking about afghanistan, and you mentioned in addition to pakistan and it's other neighbors and best thing, it's through the intervention. so solid and formal intervention of a 1000 neighbors that the guy has done is sort of kept afloat. most certainly no flourishing, but i think it was the restaurant in central asian republics,

online training context and trying to make sure perhaps for their own good. the packet i've done is done. does not regress into k is now. is it good enough for now? do you see any opportunities for something more inspiring, i guess, or economically viable? it is such an and not good enough, but at this same time, i think carrier should go to a one subs immediate neighbors and the share file sustaining one is some economically do and if actually use subsistence sleep. so the subsistence level is the tool, the cut off to swap and to bar for truth and which is 14 a was on, but situation is cave. there's 97 percent power train on some part of which 52 percent of ex, truly dependent on international humanitarian assistance. and unfortunately,

that international humanitarian assistance is drinking in good causes and fronted fee. um, all drugs come and the and the come a drink was made for $4200000000.00 but hardly one 3rd. was actually a dealer close by son. same happens us to around $2400000000.00 coming from only 1.5 percent was actually committed. female was so the country is essentially at abandoned by its former partner slash, let's call it that's the way it is. and in fact uh, was southern does not figure in, in uh, america, no natural countries prior to use. now, oh, can i ask specifically about that? because you mentioned this rather, her departure of the previous administration. but then you administration, the new american president seems to have a great interest in rare earth materials of which i've done his time has plenty.

and here recently came up with a rather unorthodox proposal for guys a suggesting to turn it into eddie vienna. do you expect any sort of creative a that's kind of creative ideas coming out of washington that can bring some economic development though. perhaps some focus at least 2 of them has done. i don't think they was very much just use of our blue tillman of what us um, and then you said the that 100 and you know, the left on the plan because my wife doesn't let me tell you of the president bush auto generals can move in the wall and the officer was no, and he said then why i'll be visiting our blood and treasure. and oh my son pull out ya. so he entered into an agreement with the telephone and signed it and but it was implemented by prison by good. so it shows, there was a bipartisan support to this pull out from so you can see it. it was done in the,

in the, in a high, it was going to try the spend good 20 years. and they don't, could, and gave uh, from boulevard to tied up on this policy. okay. my question to you, do you believe there is any possibility of them coming back perhaps even in some sort of a cotton like a in a joint effort. let's say with the russians or the salad is because, you know, the results of the reality. that would be an unusual thing around the miracle. if that happens are dry and upper side made. you aren't offers are made for the good of the humanity for the board of the people. designate the idea is that i know to opinions about that, the good powers, they should infective together. and they should talk about peace and they also try to help in resolving disputes where they are now uh,

as i mentioned in riyadh, we had uh, the russian and the american delegation. now, uh, talking about the potential for economic corporation to at least there's that starting whether it's could be profitable, let's say you man and just extra or in our to cooperation if that's were to be extended a to, i've gotten this done in a genuine manner. do you think that the that it couldn't move the situation of it's car and deadlock entry definitely makes a difference. because right now a one son is neglected. there's a need not to abandon the stuff because my fear is that it was due to the bottom dollar bonds. 1.4 when i was son, was neglected, and 911 happened. it's the same. you can see the all the signs as far as present data. one side is concerned with dice, k p's activities and the t t p and all so they can go ex search editor. so it's

all the more necessary for the word to sit together and not isolate ok. so that's the reason i'm. so instead of pressing this issues because uh, we all heard about the present terms of american to list approach or he seems to involve himself into uh, you know, world problems only when he sees some rational, some business ration now. and i wonder if indeed cooperating on of data sun together can bring some benefit. not only to, let's say russia and the united states, but also perhaps to a larger re and region. and most importantly, to the dentist dining people themselves. i do when it comes to business and then i think then be another opportunity is for all the interested boxes. what about the tele bundy? because uh you mentioned about the uh paradigm and that that you know, some matters higher and aid not being enough. do you think they're actually ready

not to be the receivers of 8, even though i know that the a lot of that funds are now frozen by the americans. but sort of enter into the negotiations with region know and global powers, you know, on that own self sufficient basis. are they ready to be partners? is there a mentality even of what is the under trade? there could be many ideas, non view of talking about the tyler bond. they may also have the idea how to on monday. the issue is that to do they have the necessary expertise? fine is not simply mathematics. 2 plus 2 makes for you told me before the interview that you're interested in afghanistan became very concrete on the soviet war or soviet invasion, whatever you term it. even though in the end of the union, they thought of it as broadly really help, whatever, as somebody, the enrollment didn't have done. his son began. and at that time, uh,

saudi arabia was a very important under serial partner to the soviet union. but this time around the saudis play the very active role in bringing the russians and americans together. do you think they, they, to me and have a role to play in afghanistan in terms of expertise in terms of, i don't know, maybe ideological or religious a negotiation or liaison in whatever most definitely because low. so here be a is enjoy those. but i'm not on in bucks on, but i'll buy some as well and it's the place. so for a whole the whole it shines office long, no doubt. and then it is a very happy she'll be there to. so there is creating that media actually between douglas and russia. oh, well we hope that of some, for some of the positive will come out of transfers and we should be to the benefit of the entire work. and we had also offered the assistance in negotiating between

immediate and rather between the americans in the iranians. and i know that you are very concerned about what may happen with iran and it's nuclear poster during the next 4 years of trump. what's more, is you the most about it? well, again, as you said, i think a pushing it on to the corner were the, the davis it on maybe down after the seed in a you can see up as or where do it on a search. and even though trout it on, it is a power to be that can with so there's a need to try and read it carefully when me on addressing this and try to get my passport has made it is cisco. so when you drago orthodontic means, then you can are doors sick from the middle east, and i'm hesitant side to good. i, but i don't think that to get on is settled. i also want to ask you about iran's anyways, will proclaim the enemy's because we are so used to the sunni, she

a divide and you know, for and power is exploiting that's causing but with this new initiative by this out is to mediate between the radiance and their america's uh, how do you assess the state of the so do you rainy in the relationship? do you see some possibilities there? you like me that the search and mediation would not come out of the blue? i think a confidence has been big between so do and a hit on and mag in china play the very positive immediately role in bringing. so the to grab the then the had to stop the electric. we still use to use against each other. so it is a positive development and now it's silvia to be a can play and we do tube or between united states and. and if both parties agree, asking then it will have same impact, which we can dispute about. uh,

so do me the travel between america and russian. now we mentioned all the major powers of the region except one, india and the 10 minutes or more. it wasn't long. the 1st leaders to call and congratulate donald trump on his victory. they also worked quite successfully during tom's 1st term. we all know that in terms of a new team, there are lots of people of the indian origin in the official an unofficial capacities. for example, the vice president's wife is of indiana origin that she has massive following on the internet. i know that the indian desperate in america is very happy. do you think that may impact the politics in any way? i mean, do you expect any changes in the indian american dynamic and how it may reflect on because it has already, i think, going back to the end as well, america's the strategic bar. and again, that has been bipartisan support with the dental care. so republicans,

so it will have an impact and i think we will fall more later i response as the situation comes up. but of course, our major concern is a disturbing the kind of actual balance in the region like the truck or foot providing they have the $35.00 at the end. well, to some extent, as balance has already been disrupted, because india unilaterally made some decisions back in 2019 that somewhat change the situation in kashmir, at least now, my question to you, and i guess it's going to be the last question in the many countries right now, due to trumps. uh, uh, some of the noise book stands and forum posts. yeah. now revising that own uh, domestic and foreign policy outreach, have you seen any moves in pakistan is practiced on changing how it approaches its neighbors. you know its itself and its relationship with the big powers. so as

you're talking about and does action in a combined fisherman in august 2019, that is unacceptable. that is illegal and it goes against the resolutions. so in any case, endeavors not to enjoy legitimacy, as far as in echo park crush me to discuss them. so we already care about what to wear a co pay chart of depressive tactics. they may not want to use uh, building the comic or military muscle. does it mean that they can probably be focused on and more importantly, bucks on is not dependent on india. so does that aspect is the so in that respect and get, becomes evaluating for bucks some as far as validating is concerned with, for that matter of bucks on his dependence dependence. his concept by size is not dependent. and the but at the same time in the lesion and done so. so both and then focus on the nuclear weapon states besides this. so to the is a cause for why you,

for all of us, those who want to be stability in the region. in the neighborhood. so i think the center to sure will tend to infect, to the dangerous step rating uh to uh, february 2009 and 19 when the tech for buck sense. but of course today in fact, to introduce the new normal and the new to the moment. so i think the book says for approval, because otherwise it would start disaster mentioned quite a few miracles or a possibility for miracles or turn around a major problems throughout this interview. do believe something like that is possible between india and pakistan like some new vision, some new idea that brings both to yeah, it was agreeable. it is definitely possible if uh that our friends who, who can play the role for media liked the c and c must say, well,

we were not expecting talk of us. so we do mediation between russia and so we have our guys of a so these are offering to me did between noon on and so i think that can happen. that can help. okay, well let's keep our fingers crossed, but on this solid hopeful no, thank you very much for being with us. thank you for having and thank you for watching hope to sara again on the well to part the the

big trouble. no, no, not a lot of job in your country is in big trouble. i know you're not, you're not winning that strong to find some big truthfulness right there. and it does not go down well with the landscape. so the market leader kicks him out of the white house along with keeps dreams of striking a deal with washington. how do you come and sold some one when you are practically begging them for money and assistance? when you're wholly dependent on the, the largest of the american people, and then walk into their white house and their own offers and, and try to be argumentative and insulting. in fact, checking whatever necessary we live about to children or not. so could you take on russia by yourselves? well, it's a reality check for the pretty.