the the hello and welcome to was a part. the principles of national security and neighbors, territorial integrity have never been perfectly aligned, but the arrival of donald trump went to the global stage edits even more attention to this already and boiling contradiction. we'll the countries now have to agree on the new set of boundaries when it comes to defending national board as well. to discuss that i'm now joined by invested or a suv dirani lack of sense. former special representative to i was going to send and currently senior research fellow at b as i'm about the policy research institute investor. it's a great honor for me to talk to thank you very much for being available. thank you for having me now. uh, let me start with something that is

a very close to your home late last year. but cosign in indian media were buzzing. the discussion on pakistan strikes on one of the i've, i've done it since provinces. and i know it's a big thing for you. uh for the 2 countries, but i also noticed that internationally, you know, many of the countries were sort of doing a similar kinetic scene because at that time is real and turkey, we're moving from a boldly on into the syrian territory. there is a rush as presence in ukraine we know about is there a israel's operation and gas? donald trump is now talking about expanding american borders officially by quite acquiring greenland and canada. i wonder if you take that all as sort of isolated incidents or do you think perhaps the some of the countries have become far more liberal when it comes to redrawing the map. i think that we are mixing as

many issues together. the 1st is no 2 sufficient of similar a you'd effort to bucks on strikes. that is was the result of the intelligence based report that the tribute covers what a horrible and a and the, and they were planning. so those are precision strikes based on the incursions and none of the one measurements of one. and then a similar strike took place the back in march, last drills again, the same intelligence miss. the reason was that these 22 people, they are taking so trillion that was done the as for the, you in the report, the tools to 6000 and they are the largest group for far as far as phone carriers sort of concerned apart from my highest k, p,

then his stomach moment of those books on and you t i am, it's a long running problem, but it's a, it's a problem that's positioned outside your borders and you know that according to the international law, all countries have to respect the neighbors border. so there's always a controversy whenever somebody crosses into somebody else, we have this was knocked rod plus go, you know, why lucian, what about the to, to be a tax on bucks some positions joined by the a one actually it is not a to, to be exclusive a tax on bucks on security forces to williams, and so they have engaged in death and destruction. and then what about ice creepy people who have done did our tax in the could mind trying it on in moscow and buck hassan. so the,

so you have to actually address these issues and like on this you and then you cannot make send the sovereignty comes when the other side also respects the sovereignty of others. now my question is not to criticize him back this done by any measure. i'm not an expert on that, but i wonder if perhaps the current framework of international law not only by the fact that they and many countries seem to be ignoring it, but, but by the fact that it doesn't seem to solve the issues that you have just raised where the, the framework needs to be updated, revise brought in touch with reality some how well those uh you are offering to i can understand that those, those are the movers and shakers in the water. when you included folks on into that then can you think it's just that was last like analogy. drawing on back to huge situation as i said in the beginning is difficult different. so when the do you do

talk about iceland? no for the metro next thing. uh, mexico and canada. so that's the, you all know, we all know under the international law, that is actually a tech on the phone. and the one we're in basically a lot in the state of war and the, the same united states and natural forces. the entered into the agreement to know what his son show can and left smilingly. now they have left for the language of our disposition is the building. so we, we respect that, but at the same time, the left you know, the single problem of it. so if you are in my shoes how you're going to address that, i'm not qualified to answer that question. that's why i'm interviewing you. but can i just um, double check the 2nd part of my question, do you seeing the,

the international environment there? so the current a source has become something with more permissible us to re drawing the borders or crossing into the neighboring territory a little bit more sort of a carefree them. it's used to be, i think, a, that's a loose talk. and that we discussed that talk and the drawing of the bar as means it would actually bring the piece of security in, in the work danger. so this was something guys dangerous talk. do you think there could be any i joined international action because i remember a couple of years back. there was a lot of talk, at least from the russian side about the share secures of principal, you know, all major powers and regional powers. committing to the principle of not advancing diary security at the cost of the neighbor. do you think it's realistic to perhaps

come back to that principle or invent some other? i think we have to go back to the drawing board and we have to discuss this in um, total manner. and we should not lever this to some vertical mavericks that they decide about to anything. and this is not the way of conducting international business. how can i ask a specifically about ways of conducting international business? because, i mean, i've gotten this done uh, or the tally, binds uh, policy or sort of style of international engagement seems to be very interesting. crowded because on summer shoes they seem to be and very unconventional as put it that way, for example, of refusing to issue a passports to the citizens for crossing into pakistan for example. but on other issues on other matters like negotiating with the indians. they seem to project an

image of a fully fledged diplomatic power. how do you sort of see how to characterize these foreign policy approach? well, you said it's, i think to the bottom uh, still let me the, and the called the deadline quickly about the conduct of relationship. what does it mean to respect to sell it to you and integrity to your health for each of those borrowers? and what does it mean that to, in the economic real, how to behave, how to grant access to each other and in the region it does have been most efficient. so we hope that the internal government can of one some the really take measures that really be beneficial for the people off off on some chasing. they're genuinely uh,

not aware of how to do those things and need to learn or are they perhaps using uh, you know, some loopholes in behaving in a certain way when it pleases down with one nation and showing a difference. i go to that. so i went to the, that's the case then the king is clever by hoffman because of the new thing that perhaps they refuse the real say in a one nation's not to have fox sports. and this is not the case. i think you have to check the effects because the usual most uh, 2000 users birthday is to the highest number, perhaps anywhere in the world with such a number of reasons. i do show that one should also know that they have 5 other neighbors off. they cannot really, you know, use the, the,

the concessions which bucks on use to give them that was not available to done with the other 5 new graphs. and yeah, you wrote the recently, the president cuz i used to cold pakistan and i've got a son sammy's twins that cannot be separated. do you agree with him and what? uh, what do you want pack assigned to be in the such a symbiotic relationship with any other nation? i have no doctor of the there's a symbolic relationship with trinet bucks on on i was so again, a squared exceptional dec. 17 tribes are actually on the border. this is not the case with the one, some other 5 neighbors. let me shoot me, have a different box on that one. so the and then coming up industries to and more full price as they have projects those books and for commons. but they go totally, don't identify themselves with the projects, projects on those books on our took them to sun because there's the culture of the gap which has come. and the more comes over to here and did budget goals looks and

the 2 comments. well, you may know, but in some, so do the subsea or situation testing if it is a special case, i mean, that cannot be ruled ultimately by the international law. because what you're describing seems to be a very peculiar situation and dealing with the, you know, very traditional culture that is very different from even the pakistan's culture. i mean, the urban pakistan culture seducing, perhaps then this border needs to be and given some sort of an exception in how a you have to keep on trying. the reason is that the, on the border now it says and not a good example, but the polio awareness is prevalent on the, on bucks on the ones on border because and the, and then, and the portal as has been entered have a finish all or the word but it is. yeah, that's because of the culture, the tools we show that pride because the thing that the get,

the part of the waters of drops are shars. so they should and mainly me and become implications. nonsense. it goes like this is being pursued. so the that because of that it is, but you have to visually tell the people that there is a way to interact. no one is dropping, the was coming to purchase them. no one is dropping, bug sign is to go to a one son. but those were coming from i was on, they have to adopt a way which is internationally accepted. the goal for the hugs do go on passports. they cannot imagine going to. so the passport, all right, any other country we have with us. so i think this is the guys really doing all due to the well invested, or we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments station the,

there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth, if the case of the med, most of the people i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon, this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals to help me living on that. we have very close propaganda. you know a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the welcome back to worlds apart with a seam dirani, former pakistan's special representative on i've got to stand on currently

a senior research fellow and the is i'm about the policy research institute investigator. and just before the break or started talking about, i've gotten this done and you mentioned in addition to pakistan and it's of the neighbors and best thing, it's through the intervention a solid and formal intervention of a 1000 neighbors that the dentist done is sort of kept afloat most certainly no flourishing, but i think it was the russian central asian republics. i'm obtaining contacts and trying to make sure perhaps for their own good. the packet i've done is done. does not regress into k is now. is it good enough for now? do you see any opportunity just for something more inspiring, i guess, or economically viable? it is such and not good enough, but at this same time, i think carrier should go to a one song in music neighbors and uh, gusher for sustaining a wellness on economic

a few and actually use subsystem sleep. so the subsystems level is the true, the cut out to swap and to bar from the truth and which is 14 a was on but situation is great. there's 97 percent power train on some part of which 52 percent of ex, truly dependent on international humanitarian assistance and unfortunate feedbacks internationally who may need to assist us is drinking and good causing fronted fee . all drugs come and the and the come at drawing was made for $4200000000.00, but only one 3rd was actually a dealer global. i saw the same happened last year around $2400000000.00 commitment . only 1.5 percent was actually committed. female was so the countries essentially

at abandoned by its former partner slash, let's call it that's the way it is. in fact, the was learning does not figure in, in america, not metro countries the prior to use. now. oh, can i ask specifically about that? because you mentioned this rather her departure of the previous administration. but then you administration, the new american president seems to have a great interest in rare earth materials of which i've got his time has plenty. and here recently came up with a rather unorthodox proposal for guys a suggesting to turn it into eddie vienna. do you expect any sort of creative, a kind of creative ideas coming out of washington that can bring some economic development or perhaps some focus at least 2 of dennis done? i don't think they was very much just use of our lead team in the us. um and then

you said due to that, how did they know they left on the planet? because my wife doesn't let me tell you of the president bush off his gyros can move in the wall and the officer was no. and he said, then why are we visiting our blood and treasure? and no one has some pullout yet. so he entered into an agreement with the bottom and sign it and, but it was implemented by prison by good. so it shows, there was a bipartisan support for this pull out from so you can see it. it was done in the, in the, in a high, it was going to try the spend good 20 years. and they don't, could, and gave uh, from the bottom to top on this policy. okay. my question to you, do you believe that there is any possibility of all saw them coming back perhaps even in some sort of a cotton like a in a joint effort. let's say with the russians or this, how it is because, you know,

the results of the reality is that would be an unusual thing around the miracle. if that happens are dry and up. verse i made you are and offers are made for the board of the humanity for a good of the people. there's an 8, a, there's a, there are no 2 opinions about that the powers, they should infect step together and they should talk about peace and they also try to help in resolving disputes. that would be a now, uh, as i mentioned in riyadh, we had uh, the russian and the american delegation now are talking about the potential for economic corporation to at least there's that starting whether it's could be profitable a, let's say, a man and just sector or in our to cooperation and that's where to be extended a to i've gotten this done in a genuine manner. do you think that the that it couldn't move the situation of

its current deadlock? it will definitely make a difference. because right now a one son is neglected. there's a need not to abandon the son because my fear is that it was during the dial up on the bonds 1.4 when i was son, was neglected, and 911 happened. it's the same. you can see the all the signs as far as present data. line site is concerned with dice, k p's activities and the t t p and all so they can go exeter filter. so is all the more necessary for the word to sit together and not isolate of us? that's the reason i'm so sort of pressing this issues because uh we all heard about the present terms of american to list a pro show. he seems to involve himself into uh, you know, world problems only when he sees some rational, some business ration now. and i wonder if indeed cooperating on of got us done

together can bring some benefit. not only to, let's say russia and the united states, but also perhaps to a larger re and region. and most importantly, to the dentist dining people themselves. i do when it comes to business and then uh, i think the bill that i put you on it is for all the interested boxes. what about the uh, tele bandito because uh, you mentioned about the uh, paradigm and down then, you know, some matters that are in a, uh, not being in house. do you think there actually ready not to be the receivers of 8, even though i know that the lot of that funds are now frozen by the americans, but sort of entered into the negotiations with region know and global powers. um, you know, on that own uh, self sufficient basis, are they ready to be partners? is there a mentality even of where it is under to there could be many ideas non view

of talking about the television. they may also have the idea how to on money. the issue is that to do they have the necessary expertise line is not simply mathematics to propose to mix for you told me before the interview that you're interested in. afghanistan became very concrete as the associate war or soviet invasion, whatever you term it, even though in the end it's always union. they thought of it as brother, really help, whatever, as somebody, the involvement didn't have again, his son began. and at that time, uh, saudi arabia, it was very important of your serial partner to the soviet union. but this time around the saudis played the very active role in bringing the russians and americans together. do you think they, they to may have a role to play in? i've got it done in terms of expertise in terms of, i don't know, maybe idea logical or religious uh, negotiation or liaising, whatever most definitely. because uh, so here i be a is,

enjoys us for a not on in bucks on, but i was son as well as the place. so for the holy shines office long, no doubt. and then it is a very appreciable that and so there is playing that mutual between the us and russia. oh, well, we hope that some for some of the positive will come out of transfers and we should be to the benefit of the entire board and react also offer the assistance in negotiating between immediate and rather between the americans in the iranians. and i know that you are very concerned about what may happen with iran and it's nuclear poster during the next 4 years of trump. what's more, is you the most about it? what again, as you said, i think a pushing it on to the corner were uh the de jesus it on may be down after the seed in

a you can say up as or where do it on as such. an even though trout it on is a power to be that can with so there's a need to try and read it carefully. when me addressing this and try to get my passport has made it is gone. so the new drug orthodontic means then you can are doors it from the middle east. and i'm hesitant side to good. i, i don't think that to get on is settled. i also want to ask you about iran's enemies will proclaim to hand them is because we are so used to the sunni, she a divide and you know, for and power is exploiting that's causing. but with this new initiative by this out is to mediate between the radiance of their america's uh, how do you assess the state of the so do you rainy in the relationship? do you see some possibilities there? you like me that the search and mediation would not come out of the blue. i think of the confidence has been big between so do and

a dog and nag and china play the very positive, immediately role in bringing. so the and together then they had to stop the electric, which they used to use against each other. so it is a pleasure to build up and then now if so the to be a can play and we do trade or between united states and, and if both the parties agree, asking then edward have same impact, which we can anticipate about. uh, so do me the travel between i might have to and russian. now we mentioned all the major powers of the region except one, india and the communist and what it wasn't long, the 1st leaders to call and congratulate donald trump and his victory. they also worked quite successfully during trumps. first are, we all know that in terms a new team, there are lots of people of the indian origin in official, an unofficial capacities. for example,

the vice president's wife is of indiana origin. now she has massive following on the internet. i know that engine desperate in america is very happy. do you think that may impact the big politics in any way? i mean, do you expect any changes in the engine? american dynamic and how it may reflect on because it has already, i think, and pets in there as well. america's the strategic partner. and again, that has been bipartisan support the, the move done. okay, so republicans, so it really have an impact and i think we will have a problem with that response as the situation comes up. but of course, our major concern is disturbing. the kind of actual balance in the region like the top 12 foot providing the f, the $35.00 at the end. well, to some extent, as balance has already been disrupted, because india, you know,

that you really made some decisions back in 2000. 19 that some would change the situation in kashmir at least now. my question to you and i guess it's going to be the last question in the many countries right now due to trumps. uh, uh, some of the noise book stands and for impulse. yeah. now, revising that own uh, domestic and foreign policy outreach, have you seen any move in pack is done is pack is done changing how it approaches its neighbors, you know, its itself and its relationship with the big powers. so as you're talking about in years action and a part there for me in august of 2019, that is unacceptable. that is illegal and it goes against the resolutions. so in any case, endeavors not enjoy legitimacy as far as in echo park. gosh, me this concept. so we already care about what to wear a complete chart of depressive tactics. the my now want to use uh,

building the comical miller to muscle doesn't mean that they can probably be focused on. and more importantly, bucks on is not dependent on india. so the for that task because the so in that respect and get, becomes evaluated for bucks some as far as valid meeting is concerned that for that matter, how far it sounds depends on dependence. this concept by size is not dependent and the, but at the same time in the lesion and done since the both end to end bucks, some of nuclear weapons trace massage please. so these are costs for what you, for all of us. those who want drug abuse stability, innovation in the neighborhood. so i think the synergy should prove will tend to infect, to the dangerous step rating uh to uh, february 2009 and 19 when they attacked pucks on. but of course today, in fact, to introduce the noun almost in

a nuclear and mom. and so i think the book says or true because otherwise it would produce for disaster. mentioned quite a few miracles or a possibility for miracles or turn around a major problems throughout this interview. do believe something like that is possible between india and pakistan like some new vision, some new idea that brings both to yeah, it was agreeable. it was definitely possible if uh that our friends who, who can play the role for media liked the c and c must have, well we were not expecting talk over there. so do mediation between russia and madison without regardless of a. so these are offering to me, did victory need on and so i think that can happen and that can help. okay, well let's keep our fingers crossed, but on this sounds helpful. no, thank you very much for being with us. thank you for having here. and thank you for

watching hope to share again on the welter part. the of the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen for you, fractured images, presented to this fuss? can you see through their illusion going underground? can

the cube good, big trouble? no, no, not a lot of talking. your country is in big trouble. i know you're not, you're not winning this trump, right, that jump in some serious truth. follow me is that do not go down well with the landscape. so the mca leader kicks them out of the white house, along with p of dreams, of striking good deal with washington. how do you come in to say to someone, when you are practically begging them for money and assistance? when you're wholly dependent on the lark, asked to be american people, and then walk into their white house, marable offers and try to be argumentative and insulting. in fact, checking whenever necessary. we've pops up with us. could you take on russia by yourselves? well, that's a reality check, right, that for the british.