well, that's also this news as always, it's great to have your company here on our see, i'm more on how long we signing off for the last time. the hello and welcome to was a part. the principles of national security and neighbors, territorial integrity, have never been perfectly aligned, but the arrival of donald trump went to the global stage edit even more attention to this already and boiling contradiction. we'll the countries now have to agree on a new set of boundaries. when it comes to defending national borders, well, to discuss that i'm now joined by invested or i see if there are any back

a sense form or special representative jobs gunnison. and currently a senior research fellow at b. as i'm about the policy research institute investor, it's a great honor for me to talk to thank you very much for being available. thank you for having me now. uh, let me start with something that is a very close to your home late last year. but cosign in indian media were buzzing. the discussion on pakistan strikes on one of the guys since provinces. and i know it's a big thing for you uh for the 2 countries. but i also noticed that internationally, you know, many out of countries where a sort of doing a similar kinetic scene because at that time is real and turkey, we're moving from a boldly on into the syrian territory. there is a rush as presence in ukraine. we know about, is there a israel's operation in gas? donald trump is now talking about expanding american borders officially by quite acquiring greenland and canada. i wonder if you take that all as sort of isolated

incidents or do you think perhaps the some of the countries have become far more liberal when it comes to redrawing the map. i think that we are mixing as many issues together. the 1st is no 2 sufficient the similar a mute effort to bucks on strikes. that is was the result of the intelligence based report that need to be cover this work order and a, and the, and do a planning. so those are precision strikes based on incursions and none of the one nationalism one. and then a similar strike took place to be back in march, last drills again, the same intelligence base. the reason was that these 22 people,

they are taking so trillion that was done the as for the, you in the report, the tools to 6000 and they are the largest group so far as far as phone carriers are concerned. apart from why i escaped the stomach moment of those books, um and then uh it t i m o, it's a long running problem, but uh, it's a, it's a problem that's positioned outside your borders and you know that according to the international law, all countries have to respect the neighbors border. so there's always a controversy. whenever somebody crosses into somebody else the this was not drug classical, you know, why lucian, what about the 2 to be a tax on bucks some positions joined by the one excellence? it is not there to be exclusive attacks on bucks on security forces to williams,

and so they haven't goes in depth and destruction. and then what about ice creepy people who have done did our tax in the commodity trying it on in moscow and buck hassan? so the, so you have to actually address these issues and like on this you and then you can automate send the sovereignty comes when the other side also respects the sovereignty of others. now my question is not to criticize a practice done by any measure. i'm not an expert on that, but i wonder if perhaps the current framework of international law not only by the fact that they and many countries seem to be ignoring it, but, but by the fact that it doesn't seem to solve the issues that you have just raised whether the framework needs to be updated, revise brought in touch with reality some how well those uh you are offering to i can understand that those, those are the movers and shakers in the water. when you in good bucks on into that,

then can you're thinking that that was last like analogy, drawing on back to huge situation as i said in the beginning is difficult, different so. so when the do you do talk about iceland? no, for the metro next thing. uh, mexico and canada. so that's the, you all know, we all know under the international law, that is actually a tech on the phone. and the one of the inmates can go out in the state of war and the, the same united states and natural forces the entered into the agreement to know what his son show can and left smilingly. now they have left for the language of our disposition. is it only? uh we, we respect that, but at the same time, the rest, you know, the single problem of it. so if you are in my shoes,

have you ever been characteristic? i am not qualified to answer this question, that's why i'm interviewing you. but can i just um, double check the 2nd part of my question, do you seeing the, the international environment there? so the current a source has become somewhat more permissible just to re drawing the borders or crossing into the neighboring territory a little bit more sort of a carefree them. it's used to be, i think, a, that's a loose talk. and that we discussed the talk and the drawing of the bar as means it would actually bring the piece of security in, in the war to danger. so this was something guys dangerous talk. do you think there could be any i joined international action because i remember

a couple of years back. there was a lot of talk the police from the russian side about the share of security, the principal, you know, all major powers and regional powers. committing to the principle of not advancing the security of the cost of the neighbor. do you think it's realistic to perhaps come back to that principle or invent some other? i think we have to go back to the drawing board and we have to discuss this in um, total manner. and we should not leave this to some particular mavericks that they decide about to anything. and this is not the way all for conducting international business. how can i ask specifically about ways of conducting international business? because and i've gotten this done uh, or the tally, binds uh, policy or sort of style of international engagement seems to be very interesting. crowded because on summer shoes they seem to be and very unconventional as

put it that way, for example, of refusing to issue a passports to the citizens for crossing into pakistan for example. but on other issues on other matters like negotiating with the indians. they seem to project an image of a fully fledged diplomatic power. how do you sort of see how to characterize these foreign policy approach? what does it say that i think to the bottom of student learning the and the called the deadline quickly about the conduct of relationship? what does it mean to respect to solving t and the integrity of for each of those bodies? and what does it mean that to, in the economic real, how to behave, how to grant access to each other and in the region it

does have been most efficient. so we hope that dean and some government turn of on some really take measures decorative be beneficial for the people of health on some do you think they're genuinely not aware of how to do those things and need to learn or are they perhaps using uh you know some loopholes in behaving in a certain way, but when it pleases down with one nation and showing a different thing, i wrote down. so i went to the that's the case. then the thing is circular by hoffman. because every new thing that perhaps they refuse the room, say in a one match was not to have fox sports. and this is not the case. i think you have to check the effects because the usual most of 2000 visa is birthday is to the

highest number, perhaps anywhere in the world with such a number of these other show that one should also know that they have 5 other neighbors off they cannot really, you know, use the, the, the concessions which bucks on used to give them that was not available to done with the other 5. numerous. and yeah, you wrote the recently, the president cars i used to call practice done, and i've got a son sammy's twins that cannot be separated. do you agree with him and what? uh, what do you want pack assigned to be in such a symbiotic relationship with any other nation? i have no dogs throughout the there's a symbolic relationship between bucks on on. i was so again, a squared exceptional dec, 17 tribes are actually on the border. this is not the case with the one, some other 5 neighbors. let me shoot me. you have a different bucks on an old one. so the and then coming up industries to and more

full firestone. they have projects, those books and for commons. but they go totally, don't identify themselves with the projects, projects on those books on our took them to sun because there's the culture of the gap which has come. and the more conservative here in the projects goes, looks in the 2 comments. well, you may know by some, so do the subsea or situation testing. it is a special case. i mean, it cannot be ruled ultimately by the international law because what you're describing seems to be a very peculiar situation, dealing with the, you know, very traditional culture that is very different from even the pakistan's culture. i mean, the urban pakistan culture seducing, perhaps then this border needs to be and given some sort of an exception and how the you have to keep on trying. the reason is the draw on the border. now it says another good example, but the polio why this is prevalent on the,

on bucks on the ones on border as because in the portal as has been ended have if this finish all of the word but it is. yeah, that's because of the culture, the tools we show that pride because the thing that they get the part of the waters of drops or sharks. so they should and mainly me and become important nonsense. it goes like this is being pursued. so the that because that it is, but you have to visually tell the people that there is a way to interact. no one is dropping, the was coming to part to some. no one is dropping fucks on his to go to a one son. but those who are coming from i was sunday, have to adopt a way which is internationally accepted. the goal for the hugs do go on past force . they cannot imagine going to. so the cost for the, i mean,

other country with us. so i think this is the guy's really doing all the while invested, or we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments station the the

the welcome back to will, to part with a seam dirani, former pakistan's special representative on i've got this done, i'm currently a senior research fellow and the is my mother bought the policy research and said she had invested her. and just before the break or started talking about, i've gotten this done. and you mentioned in addition to pakistan and it's all the neighbors and best thing, it's through the intervention. so solid and formal intervention of a 1000 neighbors that again is done is sort of kept afloat and those settings in the flourishing. but i think with russia and central asian republics on

one thing in context and trying to make sure perhaps for their own good, the packet of dentist um does not regress into k is now. is it good enough for now? do you see any opportunity just for something more inspiring, i guess, or economically viable? it is such an and not good enough, but at this same time, i think carrier should go to a one son's immediate neighbors and uh, uh, gusher for sustaining a wellness on economic a few. and it's actually subsystem slick. so the subsystems level is the true, the cut off to swap and to bar from the truth and which is 14 a was on, but the situation is great. there's 97 percent power train on some part of which 52 percent of ex, truly dependent on international humanitarian assistance. and unfortunately,

that international humanitarian assistance is drinking and good. posing fronted fee . all drugs come at the end of the come at drawing was made for $4200000000.00, but only one 3rd was actually a dealer close on the same happened last year. around $3400000000.00 commitment. only 1.5 percent was actually committed. female was so the countries essentially uh, abandoned by its former partners slash, let's call it that's the way it is. in fact, the was learn does not figure in america, no natural countries, the priorities. now can i ask, who's specifically about that? because you mentioned this rather her departure of the previous administration. but then your administration, the new american president seems to have a great interest in rare earth materials of which i've got his son has plenty. and

the here recently came up with a rather unorthodox proposal for guys a suggesting to turn it into eddie vienna. do you expect any sort of creative, a kind of creative ideas coming out of washington that can bring some economic development or perhaps some focus at least 2 of dennis done? i don't think they was very much just curious about blue. tell me and i've let us um, and you said the left 100 and you know the left on the plan because my wife does a little let me tell you of the president bush offices. charles can move in the wall and the officer was no, and he said then why i'd be visiting our blood and treasure and oh, my son pull out. so he entered into an agreement with the top to bottom and sign it and but it was implemented by prison by a good it. so it shows there was

a bipartisan support for this prolonged truth. so you, god said it was done in the, in the, in a hurry, it was going to try the spend good, 20 years. and they took the gave or the from the bottom to tied up on this problem. okay. my question to you, do you believe or there is any possibility of them coming back perhaps even in some sort of a cotton like a in a joint effort, let's say with the russians or the salad just because you know, the results of the reality is that would be an unusual thing around the miracle if that happens are dry and up. verse i made you are and offers are made for the board of the humanity for the board of the people. there's an 8 that is a, there are no 2 opinions about that the, the powers, they should infect step together. and they should talk about peace. and they also try to help in resolving disputes without where they are. now. uh,

as i mentioned in riyadh, we had the russian and american delegation now are talking about the potential for economic cooperation to at least their set starting whether it's could be profitable. let's say you manage a sector or in ours to cooperation if that's where to be extended a to, i've gotten this done in a genuine manner. do you think that the that could move the situation of its current that log into it definitely makes a difference. because right now a one son is neglected. does a need not to abandon the understand because my fear is that it was during the dial up on the bonds 1.4 when i was son, was neglected, and 911 happened. it's the same. you can see the all the signs as far as present data lines that is concerned with dice,

k p's activities and the t t p and all so they can go exeter filter. so it's all the more necessary for the word to sit together and not isolate ok. that's the reason i'm so sort of pressing this issues because uh, we all heard about the present thompson, american to list approach or he seems to involve himself into uh, you know, world problems only when he sees some rational some business ration now. and i wonder if indeed cooperating on of got a son together can bring some benefit. not only to, let's say russia and the united states, but also perhaps to a larger re and region. and most importantly, to the i've done this dining people themselves. i do when it comes to business and then i think there'd be another opportunity for all the interested boxes. what about the tele bandito? because you mentioned about the uh paradigm and that that you know, some,

etc. and aid. not being enough. do you think they're actually ready not to be the receivers of 8, even though i know that the lot of the funds are now frozen by the americans. but sort of enter into the negotiations with region know and global powers, you know, on that own self sufficient basis. are they ready to be partners? is there a mentality even of where it's definitely there could be many ideas non view of talking about the tal yvonne. they may also have the idea how to on money. the issue is that to do they have the city expertise line is not simply mathematics. 2 plus 2 makes for you told me before the interview that you're interested in afghanistan became very concrete. one is the soviet war or soviet invasion, whatever you term it, even though in the inventory of the union, they thought of it as, uh, brother really help. whatever, uh,

so be the enrollment didn't have dentist on began and at that time uh, saudi arabia was a very important adversarial partner to the soviet union. but this time around the saudis played a very active role in bringing the russians and americans together. do you think they, they to may have a role to play in afghanistan in terms of expertise in terms of, i don't know, maybe idea logical or religious uh, negotiation or liaison in whatever most definitely because uh, so here i be a is enjoy those. but uh, not on the influx, son, but i will, i, son as well as the place. so for a whole, the whole it shines off as well, no doubt. and then it is very appreciable that so there is playing media travel between the us and russia. oh, well, we hope that of some, for some of the positive we've come out of transfers and we should be to the benefit of the entire board and react also offer the assistance in negotiating

between immediate and rather between the americans in the iranians. and i know that you're very concerned about what may happen with iran and it's nuclear poster during the next 4 years of trump. what's more as you the most about it? what again, as you said, i think a pushing it on to the corner were uh the de jesus it on maybe down off or do you see didn't you pass it up as or where did it on as such, an even though trout you'd on is a power to be that can with so there's a need to try and read it carefully when me addressing this and try to get my passport has made it to cisco. so when you drago orthodontic means, then you can are doors from the middle east. and i'm hesitant side to good i, i don't think that to get on is that old. i also want to ask you about iran's

anyway, so proclaimed him is because we are so used to the soonest you divide and you know, for and power is exploiting. that's causing but with this new initiative by this out is to mediate between the radiance and their america's uh, how do you assess the state of the so do you rainy and relationship? do you see some possibilities there? you like me that the search and mediation would not come out of the blue. i think a confidence has been big between so do and a lot. and that in china play the very positive, immediately role in bringing. so the and together then they had to stop the electric, which they use to use against each other. so it is a positive development. and now it's so the to be a can play and we do treat or between united states and, and if both the parties agree, asking then edward have same impact,

which we can dispute about. uh, so do me the travel between i might have to and russian. so we mentioned all the major powers of the region except one, india and the communist and what it wasn't long, the 1st leaders to call and congratulate donald trump and his victory. they also worked quite successfully during trumps. first are and we all know that in terms a new team, there are lots of people of the indian origin in official, an unofficial capacities. for example, the vice president's wife is of indiana origin that she has the master following on the internet. i know that the indian desperate in america is very happy. do you think that may impact the politics in any way? i mean, do you expect any changes in the engine american dynamic and how it may reflect the impact it has already, i think going back to the end as well, america's the strategic bar. and again, that has been bipartisan support with the dental care. so republicans,

so it will have an impact and i think we will have a problem with that response says the situation comes up. but of course, i major concern is a disturbing the kind of actual balance in the region like the truck or foot providing the f, the 35 to india, to some extent, as balance has already been disrupted. because india, you know, that you really made some decisions back in 2019 that some would change the situation in kashmir at least now. my question to you and i guess it's going to be the last question in the many countries right now due to trumps. uh, uh, some of the lowest book stands and forum posts. yeah. now revising that own domestic and foreign policy outreach? have you seen any moves in pakistan? is pakistan changing how it approaches its neighbors?

you know, its itself and its relationship with the big powers. so as you're talking about in years action, in a part there for me in august 2019, that is unacceptable. that is illegal and it is against the resolutions. so in any case, endeavors not enjoy legitimacy, as far as in echo park gushing. it is concept. so we already care about what to wear a completion or kind of depressive tactics. they may not want to use uh, building the comic or military muscle. does it mean that they can probably be focused on? and more importantly, bucks on is not dependent on india. so does that task because the so in that respect and get becomes a value in 4 bucks some as far as validating is concerned, the for that matter, how bucks on his dependence dependence, his concept by size is not dependent. and the buck at the same time in the lesion

and done so. so both and then focus on the nuclear weapon states besides this. so these are costs for what you, for all of us, those who want to be stability in the region as in the neighborhood. so i think the center to sure will tend to infect, to the dangerous step rating uh, to uh, february 2009 and 19 when they attacked puck sense. but of course today, in fact, to introduce the noun almost in a nuclear and mom. and so i think the book says for approval, because otherwise it would progress for disaster mentioned quite a few miracles or a possibility for miracles or turn around the major problems throughout this interview. do believe something like that is possible between india and pakistan like some new vision, some new idea that brings both to yeah, it was agreeable. it was definitely possible if uh that our friends, uh,

who can play the role for media liked the c and c must say, well, we were not expecting to talk of the so do mediation between russia and so without regardless of the so these are offering to me, did you need on? so i think that can happen, that can help. okay, well let's keep our fingers crossed, but on this sounds helpful. no, thank you very much for being with us. thank you for having to and thank you for watching hope to share again on the well to part the the the

this plan to introduce peacekeepers into ukraine is a continuation of the incitement of the camp regime to wage a war against us. no european troops on the ground in ukraine, and that's the message from russia's top. this nevada actually discusses the piece bo says, and ties with the us following logic is the last piece. oval off is compress, meeting the big trouble? oh no, no. okay. not a lot of talking to your country is in big trouble. i know you're not really. no, you're not winning this song to deliver some mohammed troops as the shut down any hope. so if we do sending kids emissions in washington crumbling now do you come in? so someone, when your practice.