the, the welcome to cross dog bullhorn is where all things are considered. i'm peter a little ukraine. slower president. zelinski went to washington, designed a deal. instead he laid an egg and that's putting it mildly, is the damage. repairable. is peace still on the agenda to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, george samuel, we in budapest, he's a pod cast where the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, we crossed to mark's level that he's an international relations and security analyst, or a gentleman cross talk rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. all right, let's take it off with mark in moscow. here we're going to talk about the if the actrix i'm going to talk about if there was an, an bush, we're going to talk a lot of things about this unprecedented event that we saw with uh, zalinski is visit to the white house on friday. but i want to ask both of you the

most important question and the most serious one is have efforts to end the conflict in ukraine been enhanced mark or the been diminished as a result of what was the theatrics that we saw mark? yeah, i mean with this is a frank is that has shown the world um, i don't believe that it has either increased or decreased the chance. i think what we had going in. there's a different dynamic certainly, but everything we've heard from the europeans and the key. every game is uh, they're, you know, they're going to continue to fight. even if the us walks away. mark lane, georgia, the last time i talked to you, we were concerned that the initiative, the trump was so fond of, of ending the conflict in ukraine during the campaign. after isn't all your ration up until this meeting? there was, you know, be, you know, heard, and there's no denying the united states and russia are talking to each other.

that's good news. i mean, i, i think we all would agree with that. but it had very little to do with ukraine, and that's really at the core of the, of the issue here. so george, the same question to you enhance, diminished. i think it's too early to say is the problem, of course, with a trauma visit. he's really talking about 2 different things and suggesting that he's talking about the same thing. so he's talking about this manual is the low, basically an extraction deal by which essentially, the ukraine, the dental country assigns itself over to the united states as the credits. and then, as the credit to it will have a vested interest in ukraine, prospering and paying off its debt. crowd sees that as a way of providing security because a credit that has a vested interest in the security of the death,

he doesn't want anything to happen to the data that goes, then you doesn't get his loans repaid. so that's how the drum sees it. but then he switches over and starts talking about his, the best deal with russia to end the war. and so it's very confusing when he's talking about, you know, which is he talking about the deal with, with russia. and that we, we haven't seen any trace of this, all this particular extraction deal. so, um, you know, that's, that's my question when, when, when we figure out where, where everything is going then, and then we'll be able to answer your question, you know, go ahead merch up and, yeah, i would, does this extraction deals move instead, instead in the water i think it was always a red hair. right. right. i agree. oh, but if you take a look at the types of this deal, it was not a decade on their academic deal as a vague statement of intent that serv political purposes on both sides. but both in terms of minerals to extract and potential profits and the reality of the legality

of the document. it was never real. it, it serv political purposes? um, as for um, you know, uh the idea of, uh, ending the conflict. the peace settlement. well, is one side the coverage impact by europe has absolutely no intention of diplomacy or peace negotiations. as zelinski made perfectly clear, arguing loudly back at the us, vice president and the president and swearing at them in the fall of terms under his breath in russian. and then, you know, what can be done, the best the trump can do at this point is walk away. and that is what, supposedly you know, what the, you know, the, the rumor mill in dc is that he's talking about doing. but i think we need to separate 2 things. now, the normalization of the process of restoring diplomatic ties and the normalization

of relations between the us and russia as a bilateral issue from negotiations to end the conflict, then ukraine, which will look less likely than ever at this point because they are not the same thing. there's a certain amount of overlap, but increasingly their whitening the gulf. you don't need, georgina, you know, talk a great deal about the so called minerals deal. i obviously it cut that the document or memorandum of understanding whoever you want to call it. and mark is absolutely right and you and i have looked at and it's, it's amazingly vague. ok. but i think that this was a way for trump to get some kind of wind out of it because he is obviously not interested in this conflict. he obviously sees this is biden's, which i think he's absolutely right about that. um it was a way for him to show his base money that i've saved the money. i'm making money, his base. he thinks that's what's going to attract them. but it's a,

it's not going to solve it, particularly since the so called minerals are mostly in the hands of the russians right now, which uh, the western media housing pointed out, um, obviously, and there was a whole lot more in play gentlemen. then george a much to my lee a come through russia gate. right. and so, and skate. and then me, and that is in the back of his mind. you know, i went through all of this nonsense, this hoax. and you were at the center of if you didn't say that exactly. but that's certainly what he implied, george. he did say that the that, and i was very pointed, but i think the, the, the, the, the, the extraction agreement. i mean the, it's, it's all encompassing. it's a, it's a, it's minerals. it's maria, us, it's boil gas hydrocarbons poured scheme for a structure. i mean there everything, it'll, whatever moves in ukraine, the light to say it's once a percentage of charles things of this is a, a good deal and see kind of whenever he's that he was off. he's aust,

repeatedly this question. the security guard is what are your security guards when he was a kid again? so he has these 2 wants us to that. just as a says that, well, we're going to have people on the ground and you know that we're americans, you know, we don't know what, what does he mean by people on the ground, you know, contractors, military, people, security, you know, what it, what are we gonna have people on the ground and therefore no one is going to mess with us. so that's one ons. and then the other onset is, well i, you know, we know when the review. so what's the point of asking me repeatedly about the is, are we, what about this security guarantees? you know, we've got to get the deal 1st wants to go to deal, then we can talk about security guarantees. so it has these 2 ounces, but, but you know, when he was honest, um several times are you going to continue supplying um, support? you crazy said these assessments now several times you said yes, i'm going to continue on, but i hope i don't have to provide too much because i hope we will have peace. so

he leaves everything up in the now i actually think trump has is now invested in this agreement. i think he, you know, at the, if you were the ends, as the landscape is humble pie, i'd go to trial and say, you know, we'd be the best thing. so man scattered up under too much stress. he's english isn't very good. uh you know that, but he really, really likes you and he really, really wants to work with you. trump trumps of you know, he's a very forgiving person. the value of the he doesn't hold grudges and i, i think it came on by. i think that is why here's the deal is agreement. i, i interesting that they will sign something. now when the say anything, joey, them with those, any money to be made. that's a different issue, but i think they will sign something at some point. i, i think this, it's a fools error and i think it's a cover. like i said, it's the give him a when i got the idea of the, the amount of time and resources they go into a project, them the, it's a, it's, it's, it's huge. okay. and i think that new trump is looking for

a short term when and he lost that at least at this point. marcy, we're disagreeing. go ahead. yeah, i mean just the description of trump is a forgiving person. i think he is. what of i beg to disagree? i think he's one of the most been skin narcissistic and vindictive human beings on earth and zelinski and the european leaders who are right now, meeting in paris at a summit, who's got a, a conference title is officially the e jo versus trump and pull right. the european leaders and zelinski are gathered at had do best to remember that he is the king of elephants. and an elephant never forgives though. i've never so that's been a never forgive either. i. i caps of it, this a dread george. go ahead. i think the, the interest you disagree more about the locker room b o is the secretary of state delivered over the terrible things that he and rubio

said about each other. lindsey graham is one of these closest aged uh tea. a storm, a st. people to who can pay in the get to watch commer harrison's campaign and yet they are, they all warm and fuzzy. trunk is a very pragmatic for us and he doesn't fold group projects. once the, once a, something is over, then the digits over and, you know, the campaigns. okay. yeah, yeah. i think that's a good point, george. but you know, this is something that trump is a and get held very close to his heart in this or lensky is in the way. and i already mentioned, gentleman russell gave here, and i don't think trump's very forgiving about that. have that be? i correct. yep. okay, mark e and what was this a setup? i mean who i always to. yeah, no i'm i that was my 1st take when i watched the 10 minute clip that i think most of the news concerned people on earth i've seen or at least seen part of that

was my 1st reaction. right? that this appeared to be a trump vance. tag team, right? the but if you watch the entire 5060 minute segment, right? of the entire meeting, the 40 minutes before, and trump, this was all done in front of the press. i will at, he even said, we'll take one more question. right. and then they were going to go off to lunch and sign this deal and everything. this was the landscape. this was zelinski who took, oh, he's been sitting there seizing and rolling his eyes and lifting, exasperated, size and looking. i don't know, paid withdrawal symptoms, whatever you want to call it. oh, but i saw i saw it would draw a gentleman. i saw i would do it in bizarre. jumped in right and said, started talking. we want diplomacy and zalinski lost it and then he caught him

still back down, but he kept going and it was made clear to him beforehand, right before he came here, that this was a meeting that trump didn't want that a cron pushed him on. that zalinski didn't have to come here to sign this deal, but he wanted it, but that there wouldn't be read no re negotiating of the terms of this minerals deal. right? that, that there would be no such ups listed. security guarantees in it and that the trump's course was diplomacy to come to a negotiated settlement of the conflict and, and he, he opened it up and as ged wraps that he started the lift gate to argue the whole thing in front of the american people trying to talk over the president of the united states in the oval. busy office he referred to j d events as j. d rats, right? he called them j. d r. a gentleman. i have to jump in here. we're going to go to

a hard break and i have to add hard break. we'll continue our discussion on what happened last friday. stay with our d, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, during world war 2, the germans with the help of the ship. the creation revolutionary movement that the independent state of croatia transported. hundreds of people have no way to work and force labor camps. the germans wanted the work force to build roads and the infrastructure in norway. so when they couldn't get enough prisoners from serbia, they contacted who social and the install of discounts, that you had the death rate up to 82 percent each which is actually higher done in the ultimate among the dozens of children. boy did the george a boy, but not the be a little go to the coast to the original type, the owner's school that'd be good to to this is a goodness such as and whatnot for you that they had the horrible conditions except from the t lease many people died from surveys,

a hunger as diseases, very few, maybe back home, was to some of which of the 2 nods you drove, and they will not emoji, but you know, in that process. and they said it was in on monday. all the welcome back to across the bull horns. were all things are considered. i'm peter with out your mind. you were discussing the events of the trump zalinski summit in washington. all right, george and i have to agree with mark, i looked at adverse at 1st blush because we were all messaging each other and we, i mean, and i, you know, i usually have something better to do on friday night. and i think the zalinski, he, he, he, he read the writing on the wall and was going to throw caution to the wind because, you know, you know how to address that room. and he decided he went for broke, he went for broke and just like,

i'm not going to get anything i want here. so why don't i just mix it up with a and here's a man that believes, apparently in powerful people, he believe the boris johnson that the, the west was behind him. ok. i mean, the has to, in his mind justify the absolute destruction in bloodshed in this country. so he's good to go to the next bidder, which is, this is 2nd class, bitter and best. and they're called the europeans ear. take george, go ahead. oh i, i think that's right a bit. what does it mean us this of a 3 is he is being used to grovel, needing a sick of fantasy and flatterer. remember when he came to washington and you'll have this lavish do prepared for the media dress. the congress, they were on file the ukrainian flag, even before the meeting, you know, the metal, the little, these are the democratic ball if there's a republican ball, if there's a whole saturday. so there was supporting him oldest a clue which are and, and,

and lindsey graham, you know, what do you know, right? the end. and then even when you look at all of those ridiculous tweets that was sent out by pretty much every single european lead to try the other them get them victor or behind and robot fits. so every single european i didn't, i didn't get summer. well, so the storm a made up word by this open. how getting of um the zelinski only, and the speed of downing street actually on the street. he liked the coating child's. yes. right, so so, so you can understand why he thought that he could get away with anything i mean and you know, fro and off for the kids, you know, with easy zaleski is like a well celebrity. he's on the color of old magazine. every hollywood celebrity comes through a see him. but the thing about the meeting, if you watch the whole 50 minutes, is a, he's being a nauseous from the beginning is being obnoxious as the rest of our guns. i'm not really responding in any way to trumps,

conciliatory um process because go to the saying, well, we need to bring this thing to an end. we've got a great deal here. you know, i have, you know, i am an arbitrate that i'm going to try and, you know, bring it or bring it together. and the trunk did not take the bait. despite the fact that the, the polls, the lens can want to talk about this. how horrible pigeon was, how horrible the russians were, and how they want that to kill and destroy and the terrorist. and so charles would not take the bait and then it was ready, right at the very end was that it was already winding down. it was the total is john of this, i'm not sure who he was. gloss this, listen, but the really stupid question. and then the other day, little trump said, was the route. and you know, what's the point of my saying, you know, um, you know, how horrible page it is and then i get on the phone as a volume and how's the going? and, and again, j. d, of as simply said, you know, what, what are you off the does, which is to a far more trump of just said, but give me a little more eloquently. and they said, well,

that's what the night of science with science with diplomacy. and boom, because somebody could just simply turned on him, just least the soul tie that system. that's the point. i mean, that's the most. i mean, i think both of you would agree with me that trump's learning curve on this issue has been quite incredible over the last few weeks. i mean, he actually does have a, a grasp of what's it play here and in. and he said, very clearly, mark, you know, he's a mediator seat. that was the line that he crossed for, for all of these people that are in it, a zalinski mania ukraine mania and may tow mania. i'm in the middle of this, i'm trying to ended. that was something that he could not, he could a couldn't consider for a nano 2nd, because then it would then what's it all been about? ok. and, and, and, and, and the europeans are in the same situation then what's it all about, mark, for, for me, the europeans, i mean, this american, the american security guaranteed

t here of is always been a bonanza for them because they really never had to take a stand, they would just follow america. this is something very interesting, is this just kabuki theater or they go to really actually make a, a run for the door and then for themselves. i hardly think that's possible. yeah. so 1st of all, i absolutely agree with george that the zalinski is the ultimate petulant spoiled child. who has it called that he's been given such a sense of entitlement. he is the definition of the inform theater play that the terrible infant, the monster, the bite administration, and the europeans created. and he threw a tantrum when he didn't get what do you want? it really threw it in the oval office in front of the cameras. right. he completely

lost it and you know, this is, i believe trump is ready to walk away, not just from the minerals deal, but from ukraine is in total. and the europeans have indicated that, that they believe they're going to, to pick up, you know, where off, and they're depicting themselves. they are lining up a miss zalinski against the u. s. president. right now. forget deal. great. let's talk about the transatlantic relationship and where that is going to go, because we're only a month in the not even, you know, 4 weeks into the trump presidency. and, and we're, we're already going there. know the europeans do not have the military or financial capacity to continue this more. certainly not ad has it has been continue, right. they may be, can carry on for another 6 months, 8, bon, something like that. but i mean, russia's pace on the battlefield,

continually increases and, and i, i believe they're going to go for broke. now, i expect to see all the increased speed for big offensive now, because they, they sent the blood in the water and with no piece, you know, deal seemingly possible at the moment. then they can go for broke and go for a total capitulation i, i think that's certainly what they're considering in the criminal. you know, a george so much has been talked about how trump the questions and challenges the transatlantic relationship. but given what we are, so it's unfolding right now, it's the europeans that we make and they won't allow it to evolve. it won't allow it to change and their, their, their biggest detriments to it. to mean jump doesn't like nato, he tell me to basically holds the europeans and contempt. and, uh, you know, and, and as much as i would like to see the us,

we've nato and nato dissolved. i don't really think that's in the cards right now. but the europeans are actually pushing it along for him. george. so yeah, i think that's right. and that's a big issue. same thing. i mean trumps a noise and this was made. so i think nicholas summarize it, but he doesn't think that your bands a coughing up enough money. i'm any other and he's right. this thing basic, you know, particularly of russia is such a threat. it was the threat. why don't you pay exactly that by that's exact point you makes, you know, you know, the one was gone. so the worrying about the big threat rushes, it's not to us that he says we have a big, beautiful oceans as a big, beautiful ocean separating us. so it's all the threat to us, but if using russia use such as by the, the 1st he says, why do you signing these gas videos on them? why don't you pay more for your defense? because i have no intention of doing that. that goes like your b as in joy, this comfortable lifestyle and i've enjoyed it for many decades. and they go to, you know, the americans, i going to pick up the slack for the military. so this bless the but they don't,

came out. oh, you would kind of call us now, you know, where, you know, with the free well, you're a, there's not going to be the leader of the model of the do literally christmas glued into civil country. there's a ludicrous level lead to bits. it's nonsense. and like i'm in europe as a small other ones in building my time know that it goes, it's nonsense, any kind of happened. i mean, even on the issue when they talk like, well, we're going to a nuclear weapons. they go to the french and the british, taken off a nuclear guarantee within the 1st place. the british don't have an independent the general decision. it's entirely dependent on the americans. they can't use it without the size of the rank of and the french have the doctor and you get a doctor and they can only use it for the, the defense of funds that cannot use it for any of the law for any other purpose. and then this is when my crony even suggests that this, you know, this was a cost outraging funds because they said no, that is not for the purpose of the friendship with that, that. so what's gonna happen in london today is going to be, give a lot of lost

a lot of talk, but ultimately, if they want this ukraine paper to continue, and i'm assuming that from the noises that they're making, they want this to go on. they're gonna tell us the landscape. you have to, you know, a tumble by go or in your hands, at least a trump and say that i'm very, very sorry. i shouldn't have lost my temper. i shouldn't be much more restored. i don't think it's i don't think it's gonna cut. i don't think it's the cut of the packing. i think i think mark, i think more of the do, you know, trump was taking a victory lap and obviously they did it for me. j d. did you say that they did it for me? no, i've now i don't have to make any excuses anymore. yeah. yeah, i, i think if they don't believe the ambush zalinski, but they were quick to jump on the opportunity now. now they can blame everything on him. i think zelinski is political days are over. maybe he asked the question, his life at this moment. the knives they're going to come out and key of the shield

of us protection is gone. poor asenjoe and so lose me. bo dot off. maybe others are going to be moving against him, right? so the, the question is, is what was going to emerge now as the leader of the points regime in ukraine. and that could send the whole thing either into a new naturalist fervor to fight to the end and some kind of dr. damaged wrong. or it could see the collapse of the entire thing. i think. now the important thing is what happens not so much in washington or brussels, but what happens in care of the george gun maybe the last minute. go ahead. well, and i guess that's a very good question. what happens again my, my reading is that they probably will try to make a bands because the consequences of america cutting off the ukraine would be the very, very dia for ukraine. it was suddenly that it cannot survive and the consequences of removing the landscape. then you have a festival, the question of who you're going to replace and when you call and just simply take him out and put in the allusion they,

i mean there's low cost additional mechanism board the board that have the, you know, they've, let's say, so all of them, of the ukraine itself could just collapse if they tried to remove the deadline. and this is, this is what happened is the country becomes, you know, a completely owned subsidiary of washington and brussels. okay. they don't usually think about plan b very much because plan a was a bad idea in the 1st place. anyway, gentlemen, we're going to reconvene next week. we'll see if anybody's singing come by. uh, next sunday. afraid, gentlemen, i want to thank my g as in budapest and here in moscow. and of course want to thank our viewers for watching us here are dc and next time, remember, prospect rules the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the or is the

case for the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also a pursuit. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washington. press 4, so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and visit us deals to living on that. we have very close propaganda. you know, a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask a better the answer is, will be or take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion. by power to division with no real live indians. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st. can you see through their

illusions, going underground? can the priest's grip then please when you appear to protect himself to good load. those are right and the orders showing that the learning project as i mentioned, that the enough for the, with the navy, even the but i today, even though i still have an order from over as close to taylor should i just click on especially when he was released in his love with the home that is on key out of my breast mistress who s q a phone number or

a want to assure and then for example, to get the patients that what is the the 33 curse can region residents held captive by you printing and armed forces are returning home a coalition of the war ranking as the u. k. and france, pits of carpets plan to put boots on the ground and ukraine admitting they can't do it without the us, which isn't exactly rushing to get on board. i've asked every foreign minister i meet with tell me your idea of how this turns out. most don't have a plan. a few have said, well, let's give them another you are fighting a year from now a year later after another year of death, another year of destruction. essentially, ukraine is on live support if the european union and the americans do not provide