on the americans, we could also the international community to intervene to block as it's i have to abide the deed, we are going to implemented. we are committed to the dean. we owe it to unlimited, honestly and seriously. therefore, i think we, we are pulling the national community to intervene. otherwise we are really before, obviously not even when he comes back to war. we have to fight back. we have to defend dallas's and we have done along the last 15 months. we want to be sure that this deal is, is going to lead to if the trail it door to door and serious prism or change. and then the starting the building process of goods as to why should release the prison. i was on the 1st day without being sure that it will lead to communities for free on a along the last few days in contact with the principal is with the injections,

and we have 2 of them in clear works on position. and today we have heated the of minnesota for an official agency since clearly this way is obliged to go immediately if for any confusions about the 2nd fees. and they are not allowed to solve attention to the artificial by wall or cutting they, the side of the statements of them is on the front of is a piece of i think it's the phone of the media. those on for every one was one of the top net is this. so i was sort of testing the, the of the last friday's meeting of the white house that's being really easily described as a disaster for 11 years and landscape. but should a reality check for you prints the fact the leader have come much earlier than that . cross talk discusses the

welcome to the prospect bullhorn is where all things are considered. i'm peter a little ukraine slower president. zelinski went to washington designed a deal. instead, he laid an egg and that's putting it mildly, is the damage. repairable, is peace still on the agenda. to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, george samuel, we in budapest, he's a pod cast where the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, we crossed to mark's level that he's an international relations and security analyst, or a gentleman cross type rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. all right, let's take it off with mark in moscow. here we're going to talk about the if the actrix i'm going to talk about if there was an, an bush, we're going to talk a lot of things about this unprecedented event that we saw with uh,

zalinski is visit to the white house on friday. but i want to ask both of you the most important question and the most serious one is have efforts to end the conflict in ukraine been enhanced mark or the been diminished as a result of what we see. but the actrix that we saw mark. yeah, i do, i mean with this is a frack us that has shot the world. i, i don't believe that it has either increased or decreased the chance. i think what we had going in. there's a different dynamic certainly, but everything we've heard from the europeans and the key. every game is uh, they're, you know, they're going to continue to fight, even if the us walks away, or mark owing to georgia the last time i talked to you. we were concerned that the initiative, the trump was so fond of, of ending the conflict in ukraine during the campaign after yours and all your ration up until this meeting. there was, you know, be, you know,

heard. and there's no denying the united states and russia are talking to each other. that's good news. i mean, i, i think we all would agree with that. but it had very little to do with ukraine. and that's really at the core of the, of the issue here. so george, the same question to you, enhanced, diminished. i think it's too early to say to the problem of goes with a trial visit. he's really talking about 2 different things and suggesting that he's talking about the same thing. so he's talking about this. manual is the low, basically an extraction deal, but by which essentially, the ukraine, the dental country of science itself over to the united states as the credits. and then, as the credit to it will have a vested interest in the ukraine, prospering and paying off its debts. trump sees that as a way of providing security because a credit, but it has

a vested interest in the security of the data. he doesn't want anything to happen to the data that goes and he doesn't get his loans rebate. so that's how the drum sees it. but then he switches over and starts talking about his, the best deal with russia to end the war. and so it's very confusing when he's talking about, you know, which is he talking about the deal with, with russia and that we, we haven't seen any trace of this all this particular extraction deal. so, um, you know, that's my question when, when, when we figure out where, where everything is going then, and then we'll be able to answer your question, you know, go ahead merch up and yeah, i would, the, this extraction deals move instead. instead in the water, i think it was always a red hair. right. right. i agree. oh, but if you take a look at the text of this deal, it was not a decade on academic deal as a vague statement of intent that served political purposes on both sides,

but both in terms of minerals to extract and potential profits and the reality of the legality of the document. it was never real. it, it served political purposes. um, as for um, you know, uh, the idea of, uh, ending the conflict the peace settlement. well, is one side the coverage impact by europe has absolutely no intention of diplomacy or peace negotiations. as zelinski made perfectly clear, arguing loudly back at the us, vice president and the president and swearing at them in the fall of terms under his breath in russian. and then, you know, what can be done, the best of that trump can do at this point is walk away. and that is what, supposedly you know what the, you know, the, the rumor mill in d. c is that he's talking about doing, but i think we need to separate 2 things. now, the normalization of the process of restoring diplomatic ties and the normalization

of relations between the us and russia as a bilateral issue from negotiations to end the conflict, then ukraine, which will look less likely than ever at this point because they are not the same thing. there's a certain amount of overlap, but increasingly their whitening the gulf. you don't need, georgina, you and i've talked to a great deal about the so called minerals deal. i obviously it cut that the document or memorandum of understanding wherever you want to call it. and mark is absolutely right and you and i have looked at and it's, it's amazingly vague. ok. but i think that this was a way for trump to get some kind of wind out of it because he is obviously not interested in this conflict. he obviously sees this is biden's, which i think he's absolutely right about that. um it was a way for him to show his base money. i've saved the money. i'm making money,

his base. he thinks that's what's going to attract them. but it's a, it's not going to solve it, particularly since the so called minerals are mostly in the hands of the russians right now, which uh, the western media housing pointed out, um, obviously, and there was a whole lot more in play gentlemen. then george, uh much to my, um, lee and trump through russia gate. right. and so, and skate. and then me, and that is in the back of his mind. you know, i went through all of this nonsense, this hoax and you were at the center of if you didn't say that. exactly. but that's certainly what he implied, george. he did say that the that, and i was very pointed. but i think the, the board about the, the extraction agreement. i mean the, it's, it's only encompassing. it's a, it's, it's minerals. it's maria, us, it's boil gas hydrocarbons. paul, it's getting for a start drive. me there. everything. it'll, whatever moves in ukraine. the light to say it's once a percentage of charles things of this is a,

a good deal and see kind of whenever he's that he was off. he's aust, repeatedly this question of the security guard is, what are your security guards when he was a kid again? so he has, these 2 wants us to that, just as says that, well, we're going to have people on the ground and you know that we're americans, you know, we don't know what, what does he mean by people on the ground, you know, contractors, military people, security you know what it, what are we gonna have people on the ground, and therefore no one is going to mess with us. so as the one on so many other onset is whether, you know, when know when the review. so what's the point of asking me repeatedly about the so what about this security guarantees? you know, we've got to get the deal 1st wants to go to a deal, then we can talk about security guarantees. so it has these 2 ounces, but, but you know, when he was honest, um several times are you going to consume you supplying um support? you crazy said these. i said this now several times. you said yes, i'm going to continue on, but i hope i don't have to provide too much because i hope we will have peace. so

he leaves everything up in the now i actually think trump has is now invested in this agreement. i think he, you know, at the, if you were the ends as the landscape is humble pie and go to trial and say, you know, go with them, you know, i think so, man scattered up on the too much stress. he's english isn't very good. uh you know that, but he really, really likes you and he really, really wants to work with you. trump trumps of you know, he's a very forgiving person. the value of the he doesn't hold grudges and i, i think it came on by. i think that is why here's what i see is agreement. i, i interesting that they will sign something. now when the say anything, joey, them with those, any money to be made. that's a different issue, but i think they will sign something at some point. i, i think this, it's a fools error and i think it's a cover. like i said, it's the give him a when i got the idea of the, the amount of time and resources they go into

a project, them the, it's a, it's, it's, it's huge. okay. and i think that new trump is looking for a short term when and he lost that at least at this point. mark, you were disagreeing. go ahead. yeah, i mean, just the description of trump is a forgiving person. i think he is. what of i beg to disagree? i think he's one of the most been skin narcissistic and vindictive human beings on earth and zelinski and the european leaders who are right now, meeting in paris at a summit, who's got a, a conference title is officially the e jo versus trump and pull right. the european leaders and zelinski are gathered. i had do best to remember that he is the king of elephants, and an elephant never forgives, though. i've never so that's been and never forgive either. i. i caps of it, this a dread george. go ahead. the, the interest, the slightly more about the locker room

b o is the secretary of state delivered all over the terrible things that he and rubio said about each other. lindsey graham is one of his closest age um to a storm, a st. people to who can pay in the get to watch commer harrison's campaign and yet they are, they all warm and fuzzy. trunk is a very pragmatic for us and he doesn't fold group projects once. once a, something is over then the digits over and you know, the campaigns. okay. yeah, yeah, i think that's a good point, george, but they know this is something that trump is a and they held very close to his heart. and so lensky is in the way, and i already mentioned gentleman russell gave here, and i don't think trump's very forgiving about that. have that be? i correct? yep. okay, mark e, and what was this a setup? i mean who i always to. yeah, no, i'm i that was my 1st take when i watched the 10 minute clip that i think most of the news concerned people on or as i've seen,

or at least seen part of that was my 1st reaction, right? that this appeared to be a trump vans tag team right there. but if you watch the entire 5060 minute segment, right, of the entire meeting, the 40 minutes before and trump, this was all done in front of the press. i will. and he even said, we'll take one more question, right. and then they were going to go. busy off to lunch and sign this deal and everything. this was the landscape. this was zelinski who took oh, he's been sitting there seizing and rolling his eyes and laughing, exasperated size and looking. i don't know, painted withdrawal symptoms, whatever you want to call it. oh, but i saw i saw it would draw a gentleman i saw with the jump in. right and said, started talking,

we want diplomacy, and zalinski lost it, and then he caught him still back down, but he kept going and it was made clear to him beforehand, right before he came here, that this was a meeting that trump didn't want. that mac kron pushed him on, that zelinski didn't have to come here to sign this deal, but he wanted it. but that there wouldn't be really no re negotiating of the terms of this minerals deal. right? that, that uh, there would be no such ups list, the security guarantees in it. and that the trumps course was diplomacy uh to come to a negotiated settlement of the conflict and, and he, he opened it up and as ged vance that he started the lift gate to argue the whole thing in front of the american people trying to talk over the president of the united states in the oval. busy office he referred to j to events as j. d rats,

right? he called them j. d r. a gentleman. i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break and have to have hard break. we'll continue our discussion on what happened last friday. stay with our d, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the, the welcome back across that bull horns were all things are considered on peter a low balance reminder, we're discussing the events of the trump zalinski summit in washington. all right, george. and i have to agree with mark. i looked at adverse at 1st blush because we were all messaging each other and we, i mean, and i, you know,

i usually have something better to do on friday night. and i think the zalinski, he, he, he, he read the writing on the wall and was gonna throw caution to the wind because, you know, you know how to address that room. and he decided he'd win for broke. he went for broke and just like, i'm not going to get anything i want here. so why don't i just mix it up with a and here's a man that believes apparently in a powerful people, he believed that boris johnson that the, the west was behind him. ok. i mean, he has to, in his mind justify the absolute destruction and bloodshed in this country. so he's good to go to the next bidder, which is, this is 2nd class better at best, and they're called the europeans ear. take george, go ahead. all right, i think that's right a bit. what does it mean use this of a 3 is he is being used to grovel in a sick of fantasy and flatter. remember when he came to washington,

and you'll have this lavish do prepared for him. he address a congress, they were on file, the ukrainian flag, even before the meeting. you know, the metal, the little, these are the democratic ball. if there's a republican politician, it will sort of this. so there was a bullying him old is a clue which are and, and, and the latency graham, you know, weren't you know, right down to and then even when you look at all of those ridiculous tweets that was sent out by pretty much every single you were the and lead to try the other them get them victor or behind and robot fits so every single european i didn't, i didn't get summer. well, so those so i'm a made up word by this open hogging of um the zalinski only. and the speed of downing speed actually on the street. he liked the coating child's yes sized so so you can understand why he thought that he could get away with anything. i mean and you know, a fraud and officer alrick is you can always easy. he is the last easily to well celebrity. he's on the color of old magazine. every hollywood celebrity comes

through a see him. but the single by the meeting, if you watch the whole 50 minutes is a, he's being a noxious from the beginning is being or not just aggressive. our guns um not really responding in any way to trump's conciliatory um process because controlled the saying well we need to bring this thing to an end. we've got a great deal here. you know, i have, you know, i am an arbitrate that i'm going to try and you know, bring it or bring it together. and it's the trunk did not take the bait, despite the fact that the, the poles and lens can wanted to talk to them about how horrible pigeon was, how horrible the russians were, and how they went to, to kill and destroy and the terrorist. and so trump would not take the bait and that it was really right at the very end was the, it was already winding down. it was the total is john of this notion of who he was, was this so this really stupid question. and then the other day, well,

trump said was as well and, you know, what's the point of my saying, you know, you know, how horrible pension is, and then i get on the phone is a binding that, how's it going? and, and again, j. d, of as simply said, you know what, what the golf though does, which is to a far more trump of just said, but to give her a little more eloquent play. and they said, well that's what the night of science with science with diplomacy and boom, is that i could, somebody could just simply turned on him just least the sales guy that system is. that's the point. i mean that's the most, i mean, i think both of you would agree with me that trump's learning curve on this issue has been quite incredible over the last few weeks. i mean, he actually does have a, a grasp of what's in play here. and, and, and he said very clearly mark, you know, he's a mediator. see, that was the line that he crossed for, for all of these people that are in it as a lensky mania. ukraine mania and nato mania. i'm in the middle of this, i'm trying to ended. that was something that he could not, he could

a couldn't consider for a nano 2nd, because then it was then what's it all been about? okay. and, and, and, and, and the europeans are in the same situation then what's it all about, mark, for, for me, the europeans, i mean, this american, the american security guaranteed to europe is always been a bonanza for them because they really never had to take a stand they would just follow america. this is something very interesting, is this just kabuki theater or they go to really actually make a, a run for the door and then for themselves. i hardly think that's possible. yeah. so 1st of all, i absolutely agree with george that the zalinski is the ultimate petulant spoiled child. who has it called that he's been given such a sense of entitlement. he is the definition of the inform theater, blair,

that the terrible infant, the monster that divided ministration and the europeans created. and he threw a tantrum when he didn't get what do you want it, he threw it in the oval office in front of the cameras. right. he, he completely lost it. and you know, this is, i believe trump is ready to walk away, not just from the minerals deal, but from ukraine is in total. and the europeans have indicated that, that they believe they're going to, to pick up, you know, where often they're depicting themselves. they are lining up a miss zalinski against the u. s. president, right now. forget deal. great. let's talk about the transatlantic relationship and where that is going to go, because we're only a month in the not even, you know, 4 weeks into the trump presidency. and, and we're,

we're already going there. know the europeans do not have the military or financial capacity to continue this more. certainly not ad has it has been continue, right? they may be, can carry on for another 6 months. 8, bon, something like that. but i mean, rushes pace on the battlefield continually increases and, and i, i believe they're going to go for broke. now, i expect to see all the increased speed for big offensive now, because they, they sense blood in the water and with no peace. you know, deal seemingly possible at the moment. then they can go for broke and go for a total capitulation i, i think that's certainly what they're considering in the criminal. you know, a george so much has been talked about how trump the questions and challenges the transatlantic relationship. but given what, where's it's unfolding right now,

it's the europeans that we make and they won't allow it to evolve. it won't allow it to change and their, their, their biggest detriments to it. to mean jump, doesn't like nato, he helped me to basically holds the europeans and contempt. um and you know, and, and as much as high, we'd like to see the us, we've nato and nato dissolved. i don't really think that's in the cards right now, but the europeans are actually pushing it along for him. george. so yeah, i think that's right. and that's a big issue to say, i mean, the trunk of annoyance was made. so i think nicholas summarize it, but he doesn't think that your fans a coughing up enough money. i'm any of that and he's right. this thing basic, you know, particularly of rush is such a threat. it was the threat. why don't you pay exactly that by that's exact point you makes and the other one was gone. so the worrying about the how, what a big threat rushes, it's not to us that he said we have a big, beautiful oceans as a big, beautiful ocean separating us. so it's all the threat to us. but if using russia use such as by the, the 1st he says, why resigning these guys the vios on them?

why don't you pay more for your defense? because i have no intention of doing that. that goes like your b as in joy, this comfortable lifestyle. and i've enjoyed it for many decades, and they go to, you know, that the not americans, i going to pick up the slack for the military. so this plus the, that the tool came out who you would kind of call us now, you know, where, you know, with the free, well, you're just not going to be the leader of the model. the do literally christmas lunatic. a simple country, there's a ludicrous level lead to bits. it's nonsense. and like i'm in europe as a small other ones in building my time know that it goes it's nonsense. any kind of happened. i mean, even on the issue when they talk like, well, we're going to a nuclear weapons. they go to the french and the british, taken off a nuclear guarantee within the 1st place. the british don't have an independent the general dislike. it's entirely dependent on the americans. they can't use it without the size of the rank of and the french have the doctor and you get a doctor that can only use it for the the defense of funds that can only use it for

any of the law. for any other purpose, and this is when my crony even suggests that this, you know, this was a cause outraging funds because they said though that is not for the purpose of differentiating that, that. so what's gonna happen in london today is going to be, give a lot of last a little talk, but ultimately, if they want this ukraine tape or to continue. and i'm assuming that from the global noises that they're making, they want this to go on. they're going to tell us the landscape. you have to, you know, a tumble by go or in your hands, at least a trump and say that i'm very, very sorry. i shouldn't have lost my time, but i shouldn't be much more restored. i don't think it's i don't think it's gonna cut. i don't think it's the kind of okay. i think i but i think mark, i think part of the do, you know, trump was taking a victory lap and obviously they did it for me. j d, did you say that they did it for me? no, i've now i don't have to make any excuses anymore. yeah. yeah. i think if they don't

believe the ambush zalinski, but they were quick to jump on the opportunity now. now they can blame everything on him. i think zelinski is political days are over. maybe he asked the question his life at this moment. the knives are going to come out and key of the shield of us protection is gone. poor asenjoe, and so lose me. bo dot off, maybe others are going to be moving against them. right? so the, the question is, is what was going to emerge now as the leader of the porch regime in ukraine. and that could send the whole thing either into a new naturalist fervor to fight to the end and some kind of dr. damaged wrong. or it could see the collapse of the entire thing. i think. now the important thing is what happens not so much in washington or brussels, but what happens in care of to george gun maybe the last minute go ahead. well, and i guess that's a very good question. what happens it gave, i'm my mind. it really is that they probably will try to make bands because the

consequences of america cutting off the ukraine would have the very, very dia for ukraine was suddenly that it cannot survive and the consequences of removing the landscape. then you have a possible the question of who you're going to replace and when you can't just simply thank your mouth and put in the allusion they, i mean there's low cost additional mechanism board. the board that holds the, you know, they'd, let's say, so all the, the, you create itself to just collapse if they tried to remove the deadline. and this is, this was like what happened is the country becomes, you know, a completely on subsidiary of washington and brussels. okay. they don't usually think about plan be very much because plan a was a bad idea in the 1st place. anyway, gentlemen, we're going to reconvene next week. we'll see if anybody's singing come by uh, next sunday. all right gentlemen, i want to thank my g as in budapest and here in mosque. and of course when i think

our viewers for watching us here are d. c, next time, remember across that roles the priest group, then please feel free to take those off to good luck, lloyd. those are right and the order is showing that the learning project as i mentioned that enough for me with the navy. but today, even though i still have an order for no risk without kind of course, the roland brings us to tell us right click on the flash sale, 40 years or the news. our list is slow,

but overall that is one key of my business thrust the risk either way number, or you want to assure and encourage them to get the patients that what is the, the headline story? this our over 30 residents of the curse cal's captive by the ukranian armed forces are in the process of returning home. also a head of a coalition of the warring b u. k. and french leaders push their chess sites and pitcher plans about boots on the ground and you train but admit they can't do it without the u. s. and washington isn't exactly rushing to get on board. i've asked every foreign minister and meet with tell me your idea of how this turns out. most don't have a plan. a few have said, well, let's give them another you are fighting